Digital Foundry: Xbox Series X Backwards Compatibility Tested - And The Performance Is Extreme

Jroc · Sep 28, 2020

arrado said:
It's interesting that PS5 will be bottlenecked by ps4 pro in some cases, compared to Xbox. Some ps4 pro games for example run at 1440p, whereas One X runs at 1800p.

Checkerboard games will also be stuck with checkerboarding artifacts.

I'm curious to see how the PS5 handles its variable clock speeds during BC without any developer oversight. If a BC game was absolutely hammering the GPU (like 4K foliage in Sekiro), would Smartshift cause the CPU to drop below 3Ghz to free up the power budget? I'm guessing the Xbox runs at the full 3.8Ghz during BC since it only needs 8 threads.

breander · Sep 28, 2020

It's both impressive and a little disappointing, I expected most of the games to be locked to 60 given the hardware increase but it seems there are still some hardware bottlenecks to maintain compatibility holding things back.

Theorry · Sep 28, 2020

Duck-Zilla said:
Can we expect RDR2 4K 60fps on XSX? What is it running at on the One X?

native 4k/30

Beer Monkey · Sep 28, 2020

Cyclonesweep said:
If Sony puts in work like Microsoft is for BC than the gap will be relatively unnoticeable for most. If they don't put much work in then I could see it being a noticable difference. Don't see why that's crazy to say

I believe AMD designed the BC for Sony. Which might be for the best, even if it ends up being pretty basic compared to Series X.

J_ToSaveTheDay · Sep 28, 2020

Citizencope said:
Also he mentions being excited about trying this out on a VRR display. Can someone explain what that does better.

Variable refresh rate (VRR) dynamically alters the display's refresh rate to the actual framerate of content, and this prevents things like screen tearing from happening and tends to maintain the highest possible level of input response by doing so, since the visual data being fed to you is 100% what the system is capable of doing.

Generally speaking, and I do believe this applies to the Xbox line of consoles, VRR bottoms out at 48Hz which means it can only operate from 48Hz+, which means content must be above 48Hz for it to work.

What this means is that games with fluctuating and unstable framerates from 48fps as high as the display can go (in the case of Xbox Series X, it supports up to 120Hz) will just look smooth and consistent and the input response will be true to whatever the framerate is, rather than feeling like it's trying it's best to adapt the a locked 60Hz like most displays are locked at. You won't experience jutter/framepacing as noticeably and you won't see screen tearing as long as the content you're playing stays within the VRR bounds (again, traditionally 48Hz to whatever the maximum refresh rate of the display is).

It has almost no purpose for video content but it is AMAZING for gaming.

EDIT: If you've paid attention to PC gaming at all in the last 5-6 years, variable refresh rate is technologies like G-Sync and FreeSync. There's also an open source version that's circulating but I forget what it's called, and I believe it's the version that consoles and a lot of VRR-supporting TVs utilize.

Cogg · Sep 28, 2020

Its about time I get back Into MH as well. Never got to Iceborne so seems like a perfect time to get hooked again

Xpider_MX · Sep 28, 2020

Soj said:
I suddenly feel a lot better about my massive 360 library.

The same here, but for GamePass

chandoog · Sep 28, 2020

Nothing short of impressive.

Gitaroo · Sep 28, 2020

digitalrelic said:
Jeff Grub tested this and load times were nearly identical with an external SSD vs the internal one:

Good to know, may pick up some cheap external SSD if I see any.

nanskee · Sep 28, 2020

Couscous said:
So Dark Souls III is stuck at 30fps? :/

Yes, because from soft didn't do a Xbox one x patch for it, to unlock the frame rate

bruhaha · Sep 28, 2020

c0de said:
Difference is that we have footage for one system and absolutely nothing for the other one, period.

OK? So you want to win a pointless argument for two weeks instead of waiting for confirmation on either side?

samred · Sep 28, 2020

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incredible video, Rich + team.

TigerKnee · Sep 28, 2020

nekkid said:
Other sites have compared this and it's significantly faster on XSX from an external HDD than doing the same on X1X. Obviously nowhere near putting it on the internal SSD, but still better.

This is REALLY good news...

Deleted member 20297 · Sep 28, 2020

bruhaha said:
OK? So you want to win a pointless argument for two weeks instead of waiting for confirmation on either side?

There is nothing to win here.

Fisty · Sep 28, 2020

exodus said:
When we're dealing with the same x86 architecture two generations in a row, BC is not and should not be black and white. Software should be platform agnostic until it uses features that are strictly not available in previous hardware, and even then, it should be gracefully handled within the same SKU unless the software is not cross generational. This is purely a failure from Sony in this regard.

Microsoft can do it. Apple can do it. Google can do it. PC developers can do it. But we're supposed to be lenient to Sony because they're stuck in their antiquated ways?

So what youre saying is that people that upgrade from PS4 to PS5 SKU in games like Borderlands 3, Destiny 2, Fortnite, Avengers etc etc won't be able to use their save data? Because I have a hunch they will.

ShinUltramanJ · Sep 28, 2020

This is how you do BC. Microsoft's bringing a part of what makes PC gaming great, to the Xbox.

Skyebaron · Sep 28, 2020

Damn, this is easily the best series X vid right now.

xem · Sep 28, 2020

Andromeda said:
From ~35fps to ~59fps? Why can't it run Monster Hunter locked?

it prolly can in Performance mode (1080p) if you need absolute lock. or hopefully VRR will make it unnoticeable

Deleted member 20297 · Sep 28, 2020

nekkid said:
Other sites have compared this and it's significantly faster on XSX from an external HDD than doing the same on X1X. Obviously nowhere near putting it on the internal SSD, but still better.

It makes sense as the CPU is much faster and decompression on the CPU can also be taxing on games.

StrangeADT · Sep 28, 2020

albz74 said:
Not exactly. X360 had no BC at the beginning and it's rough beginnings paved way to what it is now. MS totally neglected BC back then, unlike Sony, that had first 3 consoles with full BC on.

Fair enough. Though didn't PS3 drop PS2 backwards compat in later models? Both have black marks if you want to look back but MS is clearly championing it more now. Has Sony ever had multiple gen backwards compat? (I honestly don't know).

Edit: Wait, PS4 wasn't fully backwards compat with PS3. Am I missing something here? PS1 had nothing to be backwards compat with, so at most PS2 and PS3 (partial gen) had full backwards compat.

NOTE: I don't consider PS Now a viable option for backwards compat.

Baron Bliss · Sep 28, 2020

Hoping against hope that Sony will show us what we can expect for PS5 BC soonish. I'll still be at 1080p for the foreseeable future and all I want is 1080p/60fps locked for my PS4 games likes Bloodborne and The Last Guardian.

Xpider_MX · Sep 28, 2020

bruhaha said:
We don't know that Series X doesn't downclock for some titles. The current testers are only testing titles whitelisted by MS.

We know it, since may.

KTroopA · Sep 28, 2020

Zombegoast said:
GTA4 locked at 60fps?

Yes this def caught my attention. FUCK YES. plz tell me this can be done on the Series S as well?

HardRojo · Sep 28, 2020

Serenity Lotus said:
Great showing for Series X BC and yet the biggest discussion going on is about PS5 BC. ffs can we not just stay on topic...

Well, discussing the lack of footage from PS5 BC is on topic imo, since MS has given us footage of their solution (with unpatched games) while Sony has yet to show us something beyond their claims. We're a month and a half away from release.

exodus · Sep 28, 2020

Fisty said:
So what youre saying is that people that upgrade from PS4 to PS5 SKU in games like Borderlands 3, Destiny 2, Fortnite, Avengers etc etc won't be able to use their save data? Because I have a hunch they will.

So far we have confirmation of two titles that are incompatible with previous save data: Spiderman, and Yakuza.

Destiny 2 and Fortnite will likely work since their saves are stored server side and are engineered to be cross-platform. The rest is likely up to developers.

Dreams-Visions · Sep 28, 2020

yea, this is the console to have if you have any backlog from current gen whatsoever.

especially when you consider how mediocre launch lineup exclusives will be. and you can get a lot of these current-gen games for dirt cheap.

this is amazing.

Deleted member 47076 · Sep 28, 2020

Couscous said:
So Dark Souls III is stuck at 30fps? :/

MS said that select games could have their framerates unlocked, so it's possible we'll see DS3 at 60. It would probably be the same resolution though.

Fisty · Sep 28, 2020

Xpider_MX said:
We know it, since may.

Source

exodus said:
So far we have confirmation of two titles that are incompatible with previous save data: Spiderman, and Yakuza.

Destiny 2 and Fortnite will likely work since their saves are stored server side and are engineered to be cross-platform. The rest is likely up to developers.

So its possible then

shadowsdarknes · Sep 28, 2020

Yuuber said:
I don't want to derail the thread, but Sony announced at the time they were testing "boost mode" for the 100 more played PS4 games. It really does seem that the norm for PS5 backwards comp. will be playing the games as they were on Pro. Which is not a bad thing, mind you, but definitely not in the same level as we've just seen here for series X.

Can't wait for more DF videos on the newer systems.

He said results were excellent and expects nearly all 100 games to run just fine. Sony has tested thousands of games in BC mode in general which means that thousands will be tested with boost mode,too. If the top 100 are running fine, the rest are likely fine, too. They aren't altering the game code. Aside from some issues with some games, if the top 100 work fine from a sample size, then the majority of games ought to benefit, too.

Deleted member 20297 · Sep 28, 2020

exodus said:
So far we have confirmation of two titles that are incompatible with previous save data: Spiderman, and Yakuza.

Destiny 2 and Fortnite will likely work since their saves are stored server side and are engineered to be cross-platform. The rest is likely up to developers.

With PS+ my saves are also stored on a server, this is not really an argument. The fact that saves are not cross generational is a design decision.

Xpider_MX · Sep 28, 2020

breander said:
It's both impressive and a little disappointing, I expected most of the games to be locked to 60 given the hardware increase but it seems there are still some hardware bottlenecks to maintain compatibility holding things back.

Not hardware bottlenecks at all, just games with capped framerate.

Old Gimlet Eyes · Sep 28, 2020

This is one of the most impressive things on new hardware I've ever seen. Absolutely amazing achievement from Microsoft and all consoles should offer this level of BC for their previous consoles.

Jmdajr · Sep 28, 2020

digitalrelic said:
Jeff Grubb tested this and load times were nearly identical with an external SSD vs the internal one:

Wow. That's very good to know.

Still a Gray Area · Sep 28, 2020

luoapp said:
I have the feeling PS5 will not perform as well as XSX here. Don't ask me why, but I actually think PS5 will be inferior to XBX in almost every aspects except first party games. It will be nosier, hotter, 3rd party games run worse, more previous gen games compatibility issue, ( and the design of console itself?). I am not a fan boy for either side, but it just feels Sony is less prepared heading into the new gen.

I think there is potential for the PS5 to do very well here. All things being relative. The PS5 GPU runs at higher frequencies AND the PS4/PS4 Pro games usually have lower ceilings so I think you may see more games performing to their fullest potential on the platform.

Couple of things I'm interested in though. Does BX on the series X use SMT on or OFF and how does the PS5 GPU handle checkerboarding since the PS4 Pro had dedicated hardware which I assume the PS5 does not have.

Deleted member 442 · Sep 28, 2020

Great video, really good breakdown of the benefits of the new hardware. Series X owners gonna be in for a treat from the looks of it. I hope that PS5 will offer me a similar level of performance in back compat titles. Looking forward to the inevitable DF video.

RoderickToombs · Sep 28, 2020

Does BC support older 360 arcade titles? I was just looking at my old xbl account and it seems like Theresa bunch of games I'd like to replay at higher res if possible.

rajinus · Sep 28, 2020

HardRojo said:
Lots of people replay games they greatly enjoyed. I mean, we just saw the Mario 3D Collection sell like hotcakes and I'm fairly sure a huge part of those copies went to people who have already played one or two of the 3 games included. If you're revisiting them, it wouldn't hurt to have them improved and running with much better performance.
And that's not the only thing, there are several games one doesn't get to play during a generation, so woudn't it be great to play them in new hardware with improved performance? There's literally no downside to this so I don't understand your point.

But most people in this thread is expressing hype about games they just played VERY recently, like Sekiro etc. We're not taking about games from 10-20yrs ago like the Mario collection, which many have NOT played since they have not been available for the switch nor the last couple generations of consoles.

Also, my point is that backcompat for existing games is being used as the main motivator for buying a new console. I have never, ever recalled that happening with any previous console launch.

SteviaRelievingYa · Sep 28, 2020

This is why I won't need to buy any games for my Series X for awhile. Can't wait to watch this vid later.

exodus · Sep 28, 2020

c0de said:
With PS+ my saves are also stored on a server, this is not really an argument. The fact that saves are not cross generational is a design decision.

How is that a design decision? In what world is there a benefit to not support cross-generational saves? It's Sony not properly bridging the gap between generations and making their PS5 SDK/API 100% backwards compatible with PS4 hardware. Sony is still drawing a hard between generations, whereas Microsoft is blurring it.

Phonzo · Sep 28, 2020

Indifferently said:
MS said that select games could have their framerates unlocked, so it's possible we'll see DS3 at 60. It would probably be the same resolution though.

Please, i need this to happen.

Zor · Sep 28, 2020

Haven't had chance to watch the vid yet so apologies if he answers this:

Regarding the library of backwards compat titles, can I buy an Xbox copy of SSX Tricky or X-Men Legends, put it into my Series X, and it work out the box? Or is it only pre-defined games from across the generations I'll be able to play?

Zedark · Sep 28, 2020

breander said:
It's both impressive and a little disappointing, I expected most of the games to be locked to 60 given the hardware increase but it seems there are still some hardware bottlenecks to maintain compatibility holding things back.

It should be noted that whereas XBOX ONE X versions run on the native hardware with a unique profile created by the developers, the XBOX Series X back compat runs virtualised on a hypervisor, which can get close to native performance with a stellar implementation but is still not the same as running natively. Considering that, seeing such boosts even on GPU-limited titles is quite impressive to me.

Gestault · Sep 28, 2020

Auto-HDR mentioned in the video (re: GTA IV on 360 back-compat). Super excited to get a feel for this.

Xpider_MX · Sep 28, 2020

Fisty said:
Source

So its possible then

Backwards compatible games run natively on the Xbox Series X hardware, running with the full power of the CPU, GPU and the SSD. No boost mode, no downclocking, the full power of the Xbox Series X for each and every backward compatible game.

Xbox Series X: The Most Powerful and Compatible Next-Gen Console with Thousands of Games at Launch - Xbox Wire

[Update 9/14/20: We’re happy to share that backward compatible titles will be coming to Xbox Series S as well as Xbox Series X. To deliver the highest quality backwards compatible experience consistent with the developer’s original intent, the Xbox Series S runs the Xbox One S version of...

news.xbox.com

Old Gimlet Eyes said:
This is one of the most impressive things on new hardware I've ever seen. Absolutely amazing achievement from Microsoft and all consoles should offer this level of BC for their previous consoles.

chandoog said:
Nothing short of impressive.

Lol

StrangeADT · Sep 28, 2020

rajinus said:
But most people in this thread is expressing hype about games they just played VERY recently, like Sekiro etc. We're not taking about games from 10-20yrs ago like the Mario collection, which many have NOT played since they have not been available for the switch nor the last couple generations of consoles.

Also, my point is that backcompat for existing games is being used as the main motivator for buying a new console. I have never, ever recalled that happening with any previous console launch.

I haven't had time to play a lot of my previous gen games. Not everyone has played all the current gen games they want to. Hell, there are some games two gens back I haven't played yet. I still want to play Red Dead Redemption (original) before I play RDR2. Hell, I still have a Wii U so I can play Metroid Prime Trilogy which is now technically going all the way back to Gamecube in a way (though, yes, the trilogy was for Wii).

christocolus · Sep 28, 2020

DrDeckard said:
This is genuine nuts! Holy shit. MS you crazy wizards.

You can say that again.

breander · Sep 28, 2020

Xpider_MX said:
Not hardware bottlenecks at all, just games with capped framerate.

I was talking about the games with unlocked still bouncing between 50-60 fps. I believe he mentioned that the back compatible games are not getting the better ram speeds.

Deleted member 11637 · Sep 28, 2020

Locked 60 FPS GTA IV???

Shiiiiiit.

Jmdajr · Sep 28, 2020

I have one of these and it works great for Xbox One. WAY faster than my internal. I was suffering needlessly.

Pioneer Extrenal SSD.

-Le Monde- · Sep 28, 2020

TeddieBear said:
So... For someone like me who's been a Nintendo guy and didn't;t experience next-gen (current generation) games, this is probably the way to go?

Would Resident Evil 3 Remake get a big performance and resolution bump, too?

Initially RE3 ran at 4k with uncapped framerate. I believe they dropped the resolution to hit 60fps. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Makes me wish they didn't patch it. :P

Digital Foundry: Xbox Series X Backwards Compatibility Tested - And The Performance Is Extreme

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