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Belker

Member
Oct 27, 2017
725
I wished the narrator in this video would slow down a little and enunciate a bit more. He's obviously done a lot of work, but he speaks so quickly that he ends up swallowing the ends of words and I can't figure out what he's saying.

It's just practice; it's spmething I've worked on, too,.
 

Gitaroo

Member
Nov 3, 2017
7,995

Prine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,724
Yeah, I think the evilboris anlaysis showed some static hud elements getting boosted up to 1000nits. Surprised Digital Foundry didn't talk about that.
They did? Tom mentions it towards the end of the video, saying it needs more tweaking.
 

EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,683
Yeah, I think the evilboris anlaysis showed some static hud elements getting boosted up to 1000nits. Surprised Digital Foundry didn't talk about that.
Tom talked about logos, but yes, this will extend to all kinds of menus and elements within many games.
Fortunately unlike some Native HDR titles , the colours are more saturated than what they are in SDR, so that is slightly less stressful than we see in some poor UI implementations like God of War, Desitny 2 and Rocket league.

Jesus that Mirror's Edge footage was blinding, same with Majula's sky. Seems to blow out a lot of whites in other games too, which is probably my least favorite thing to see with (even dev-implemented) HDR

Hopefully they can dial in the settings better for certain games

That was always going to be a problem, there are lots of games from the 360/PS3 era that had a lot of white clipping in clouds. There will be a bunch of them like that, also very bloomy games suffer in similar way .
 

plagiarize

Eating crackers
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,539
Cape Cod, MA
I don't know what Dark Souls 2 is supposed to look like, so I will defer to others if the autohdr is messing with the aesthetic, but I thought it actually looked rather nice.

Blinding splash screens is a problem in some actual games with native HDR, like Doom Infinite and its a pet peeve. I hope they can tweak for that. Like tell the profile not to go above 100 nits for the first minute or something when you launch the game if it is closed.
 

Navid

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,021
Looks like a nice first step to Xbox's implementation of Auto-HDR, for me personally think they have gone a bit too far in cranking up the brightness for a more unnatural contrast pop in the example shown in the DF video... sounds like they will keep tweaking things though, so that's good.
 

Jeffram

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,924
They did? Tom mentions it towards the end of the video, saying it needs more tweaking.
I was expecting more of a caution for OLED owners. I don't think there is any sort of burn-in testing for static images as bright as some of these hud elements get and stay. It's likely a worst case scenario for the screen.
 

FuturaBold

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,520
the tiny little clip of Dirt 5 looked great in HDR. I expect that to be an HDR showcase. The first game Im going to test is The Division 1 with auto HDR.
 

matrix-cat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,284
The part about subtitles becoming blindingly bright sticks out to me. I have this same problem on my HDR TV with subtitles in Netflix and other media apps. My TV is edge-lit from the bottom up, so if it has to display something searingly bright at the bottom of the screen (e.g. subtitles) it ends up illuminating the entire screen. Really irritating when I'm watching something in a dark room and the TV is noticeably brightening and darkening in rhythm with the subtitle timing.
 

Tokyo_Funk

Banned
Dec 10, 2018
10,053
I don't know what Dark Souls 2 is supposed to look like, so I will defer to others if the autohdr is messing with the aesthetic, but I thought it actually looked rather nice.

Dark Souls 2 actually looks nicer than the default SDR in this video. I could see better bright spots, better gradients and better colour depth.
 

Edge

A King's Landing
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,012
Celle, Germany
I don't know what Dark Souls 2 is supposed to look like, so I will defer to others if the autohdr is messing with the aesthetic, but I thought it actually looked rather nice.

Blinding splash screens is a problem in some actual games with native HDR, like Doom Infinite and its a pet peeve.


For real, extremely bright skies is something that happens a lot in current real HDR games and even there I find it pretty nice looking, mostly.
Thought DF was a bit more critical/sceptical and less impressed than I expected, maybe they had a bad day or so. šŸ˜…

c2905ab3-a039-47d2-a1e4-9fb32353e6a0-0.png
 
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EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,683
The Auto HDR is impressive.

Isn't it possible to lower down the bright HUD elements with a post process in the pipeline?

Not via the method that they use here as it happens in the display controller literally the moment before it's sent to your TV.

It might be more possible in Xbox One games, as that supports multiple display planes, which the HUD might sit on (but only in titles using the Xbox's APIs natively), but I suspect that would likely be a big undertaking and might not yield many games with that as a result.
 

EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,683
I almost fell off my chair.

The artistic intent of a videogame creator is "I have this vision!" and the engineering team says "You can't have that." and then you release whatever. It's usually ruined anyway by people playing "the artistic vision of the creator" on a badly calibrated Walmart TV in "Vivid" mode.

This is more common than people realize, especially with older games where there wasn't the same level of production sophistication.
Whenever I have spoken to developers, the HDR is primarily being handled by engineers, despite it being a artist driven thing.
Right now for many studios either the tooling or the hardware to handle HDR in a straightforward way for countless artists doesn't exist or the processes to get it setup are unknown or don't exist. It's kind of like the IT and infrastructure issues that any business has.
Colour science is a huge topic and whilst super clever people can crunch numbers and write the code, you still need a degree of human validation and sanity checking against how users might actually utilise said content.

There are a number of games that actually have faulty brightness adjustments in SDR, let alone HDR.
There is no way that anybody who understood what they were doing or what they were looking at would sign off some of those options - and that in itself suggests that there are aspects of videogames that simply do not have a considered end result.
Lots of games don't have a reference setup for end output and there is no colourist role defined in most productions, as you would see in TV or Movie content, so ultimately who is responsible and are they qualified to decide?

I think that's before you even consider games with configuration options. Is the creators intent that I put my PC game on all low settings and the game looks like ass?
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
Yeah, I think the evilboris anlaysis showed some static hud elements getting boosted up to 1000nits. Surprised Digital Foundry didn't talk about that.

What? Tom talked at length how UI elements such as in MGSV got super bright and later in the video mentions that white things like that seem to shoot straight up to max brightness.
 

dedge

Member
Sep 15, 2019
2,429
No, Arkham Knight is not X Enhanced. And the Return to Arkham collection leaves a lot to be desired with its enhancements.
Did Arkham Knight actually receive a 1080P Xbox patch though?

And I know the disc/unpatched version of Return to Arkham had some uncapped framerates, does anyone know if that extends to the trilogy pack they put out or would it be the patched version?

I wish there was an easy way to find this info lol
 

Xx 720

Member
Nov 3, 2017
3,920
Kind of don't care about splash screens/ title screens - what does it matter when you spend 99% of time in game??
 

Plidex

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,153
This feature really makes me want an Xbox for the first time ever. I almost feel like I made a mistake going with the PS5 this time around, regardless of the exclusives. I just have so much invested in the Sony eco system at this point it seemed like a natural choice at the time. :o

Yeah, this is the only feature that I'm jealous of. But I wouldn't trade Auto HDR for the great implementation of HDR that 1st party Sony games have.
 

litebrite

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,832
Condemned 2 better get X enhanced plus 60fps!!! On ps3 rpcs3 emu, you simply go in and modify the ini. File to change the max fps to 60fps it will unlock the frame rate. Default was set to 33 or something stupid. They should focus on all the game that were stuck on 360 hardware and never got a pc version first.
Slow down. LOL Condemned 2 isn't even BC yet. Let's hope that happens first before we can hope for anything else.
 

plagiarize

Eating crackers
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,539
Cape Cod, MA
I have never heard/read anything more than 900p for Arkham Knight on the Xbox One platform. If it did receive a patch, it was so stealthily released that no one but Digital Foundry knows about it. šŸ˜‹
NX Gamer pegged it at 1600 x 1080 (compared to Tom's 1440 x 1080) when they looked at it on Xbox One X, mentioning that it appears a previous patch increased the resolution (somewhat).
 

DJ Lushious

Enhanced Xperience
Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,330
NX Gamer pegged it at 1600 x 1080 (compared to Tom's 1440 x 1080) when they looked at it on Xbox One X, mentioning that it appears a previous patch increased the resolution (somewhat).
Thanks for the share! I've edited my above post.

Any word on whether or not this also applies to the One S? I don't see anything in the comments.
 

FuturaBold

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,520
Im also curious to see what Battlefield 4 will look like with HDR. BF4 is stuck in 720p purgatory on X, correct??? : (
 

Jegriva

Banned
Sep 23, 2019
5,519
NX Gamer pegged it at 1600 x 1080 (compared to Tom's 1440 x 1080) when they looked at it on Xbox One X, mentioning that it appears a previous patch increased the resolution (somewhat).
Digital Foundry confirmed this in 2019. Without alerting anyone, they increased the resolution on Xbox One (maybe even before the release of the S), but nothing specific to the X.

https://youtu.be/ia0s959QMew 12:30
 

dmix90

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,885
After watching a bit more footage ( Jeff Grubb recent upload ) i must say that this all looks like a "Toxic HDR" implementation that makes your eyes bleed( almost literally.... my eyes were wet after 5 minutes of Nuts and Bolts HDR gameplay )

Maybe something is wrong with the capture, maybe it's YouTube app or lack of HDR calibration... i don't know and i will give it another chance on the actual console of course, but from what i am seeing on YT app on my C9, this is not a pleasing result in most cases.

I even had to launch some actual games on my current consoles to see some good HDR and confirm that i am not crazy lol( Days Gone, The Last of Us Part II and Assassin's Creed Origins )
 

Garwoofoo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
252
Have they tweaked Auto HDR since launch? Can they even do that without firmware updates?

I nearly disabled it in the first week because slmost everything I tried had blindingly bright dialogue boxes, UI elements and loading screens. Went through the HDR calibration multiple times but no difference.

Now though I'm watching my son play Slay the Spire (which was one of the worst offenders) and it looks... fine? Not much different to SDR, I guess, but with the occasional highlight. As it should be. I've checked and Auto HDR is definitely on for this game right now so has something been updated?