Digital Foundry: The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening Switch Remake - Absolutely Unmissable

[Decarb]

I've been playing it with ReverseNX and it pretty much gives you locked 60fps in docked mode with the handheld flag, no OC is needed as the docked gpu clock is by default high enough to get locked 60fps.

The equivalent for handheld is to connect a charger and overclock gpu to 768 = same as docked mode gpu. Docked mode itself is not fixed by an OC.

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This is what I'm doing. It hilarious when you go through the swamp area and pull the charger off and on again. The way resolution changes and framerate jumps from janky to smooth to janky right in front of your eyes. The game also looks utterly beautiful at 1080p on small screen. It still stutters when you fast travel and appear in new area, but all the other slowdowns are completely gone, and that includes going in and out of huts or swapping areas.

 

[GingerbreadMan]

I've been playing it with ReverseNX and it pretty much gives you locked 60fps in docked mode with the handheld flag, no OC is needed as the docked gpu clock is by default high enough to get locked 60fps.

The equivalent for handheld is to connect a charger and overclock gpu to 768 = same as docked mode gpu. Docked mode itself is not fixed by an OC.

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Can you get 30fps in handheld mode with the docked flag without OC?

 

[jeelybeans]

I feel like Digital Foundry really misled here. For a site that prides itself in picking apart technical flaws, that title is misleading as fuck for the actual experience.

This has been my worst experience with a Nintendo first party game...

 

[Deleted member 32018]

I feel like Digital Foundry really misled here. For a site that prides itself in picking apart technical flaws, that title is misleading as fuck for the actual experience.

This has been my worst experience with a Nintendo first party game...

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Maybe people should watch the video/read the article instead of just reading a title then?

 

[jeelybeans]

Maybe people should watch the video/read the article instead of just reading a title then?

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Sure, I agree, but there's a reason why in media they say it's all about the title. Thats what drives the narrative and generates the hits. At the end of the day the reality is that most people just read the title and that's where my feelings are coming from.

 

[Deleted member 54292]

dang, this game is pretty!

 

[Chief Malik]

What's the point of double buffer vsync?

 

[Nikus]

What's the point of double buffer vsync?

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To make us suffer.

 

[refusi0n1]

Links expression when he catches a fish makes it unmissable for me

 

[Dictator]

I feel like Digital Foundry really misled here. For a site that prides itself in picking apart technical flaws, that title is misleading as fuck for the actual experience.

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Where do you see John miseleading? He says exactly what happens as it happens and how often it occurs.
"Most of the problems center on transitioning between different areas"
"it can occur anywhere which is why it is a problem"
"The game just doesn't feel as fluid as I feel a nintendo game should"
"...is equally distracting. So... it is kind of a big problem, I would say."

He even shows off the swamp area saying it is a "common" type of game slow down we see at DF, and then the overworld skipping and little sputters that happen elsewhere.

He spends a lot of time in the video addressing how and where it manifests, why it does, what it looks like etc. He just personally feels it is not "game breaking" as he put it.

 

[Deleted member 32018]

Where do you see John miseleading? He says exactly what happens - "it can occur anywhere which is why it is a problem"
"The game just doesn't feel as fluid as I feel a nintendo game should"
"...is equally distracting. So... it is kind of a big problem, I would say."

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I believe he is specifically talking about the title of the video which doesn't mention the framerate issues.

 

[Red]

I've only played a little bit so far and I find the performance really disappointing. Playing on cart. In the early going it feels choppy more often than not.

 

[Dictator]

I believe he is specifically talking about the title of the video which doesn't mention the framerate issues.

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Our titles in all honestly just exist to say a big theme of the video and attract a viewer, otherwise they are too long and unreadable. It is the same reduction of information any form of media has, movies, books, newspaper headlines.

In this case a big theme of the video is what it spends most of its time talking about, how John thoroughly liked the game as a remake of the original.

 

[Deleted member 32018]

Our titles in all honestly just exist to say a big theme of the video and attract a viewer, otherwise they are too long and unreadable. It is the same reduction of information any form of media has, movies, books, newspaper headlines.

In this case a big theme of the video is what it spends most of its time talking about, how John thoroughly liked the game as a remake of the original.

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Oh I get that and I personally have no issue with the title I was just letting you know what they meant by being "misled" (even if I disagree with them).

Maybe something like "Absolutely unmissable, but what's up with the performance?" Or something similar may have worked. A bit like what was done for the Control analysis.

 

[Simba1]

I also don't like how DF gave a huge pass to Nintendo here regardless of how enjoyable the game still is to me.

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Well its not only DF positive about game, game has 88 score on metacritic, so reviews are very positive despite fact that most of reviewers reported fps problems.

Sure, I agree, but there's a reason why in media they say it's all about the title. Thats what drives the narrative and generates the hits. At the end of the day the reality is that most people just read the title and that's where my feelings are coming from.

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Well they think remake is done great despite fps problems, same like reviewers think about game.

 

[PopsMaellard]

a huge pass

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a h u g e p a s s

 

[Mars People]

Can one of DF guys explain why double buffering vsync was used instead of triple?

Because I still just can't understand it.

 

[LuigiV]

I'm sure that 3H is 1080p during most of the game. It looks native to me, even if the textures and some post processing are quite low-res.

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Yeah, I've done a couple of pixel counts. It's definately native 1080p for the two shots I did count (both were from the monastary, not sure if dynamic res is used elsewhere). I don't know how the game manages to have such poor IQ despite that relatively high pixel count.

 

[NXGamer]

Can one of DF guys explain why double buffering vsync was used instead of triple?

Because I still just can't understand it.

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2 main reasons are memory limit and response times.

I.e. no RAM left to store more render targets/buffers and faster response unless you start asyncing your render and game logic across frames.

 

[Mars People]

2 main reasons are memory limit and response times.

I.e. no RAM left to store more render targets/buffers and faster response unless you start asyncing your render and game logic across frames.

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I see thank you.
Syncing your game logic to framerate always seems like a bad idea.

 

[NXGamer]

I see thank you.
Syncing your game logic to framerate always seems like a bad idea.

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Game logic will be split, but render is linked. Otherwise you would get slowdown like the good old days.

 

[MrPoppins]

How hard from a development perspective would it be to just offer a menu toggle to lock everything to 30fps? Honesty curious as someone who knows squat about game dev. I don't think a game like this needs 60 I would be happier with consistent performance.

 

[Tibarn]

Yeah, I've done a couple of pixel counts. It's definately native 1080p for the two shots I did count (both were from the monastary, not sure if dynamic res is used elsewhere). I don't know how the game manages to have such poor IQ despite that relatively high pixel count.

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I think that it's basically bad textures, bad resolution of light shafts/fog etc..., and that the cell-shaded artstyle with black outlines looks always more jagged.

But I think that the game looks really like a 1080p game, I can have a harder time determining the resolution with other games like Astral Chain or Link's Awakening.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Astral Chain is a solid game - it runs at 30fps, sure, but it never drops and it's pretty good looking. Regarding FE and Zelda, I wouldn't say the hardware is the issue. I mean, Switch can run BotW. They are just badly optimized.

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Astral Chains drops frames often. In certain situations literally crawls.

 

[F34R]

Watching my video before it finishes processing, it's playing in 30fps. I did the capture in 60fps, so it'll catch up once it's finished processing. Watch it now though... it's basically 30fps locked on the capture and I don't see any stuttering/frame drops, etc.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Switch doesn't have the bandwidth / fillrate for new games, using modern rendering techniques to run at 1080p when docked. In fact very few even manage a locked 1600x900 resolution.

I don't know how many new first party / first party published games have to be released on Switch to prove this point -

All Docked resolutions -

Breath of the Wild - Dynamic 900p.
Splatoon 2 - Dynamic 1080p.
Mario + Rabbids - 900p.
Super Mario Odyssey - Dynamic 900p.
Xenoblade Chronicles 2 - 720p.
Kirby Star Allies - 864p.
Mario Tennis Aces - 900p.
Octopath Traveller - 720p.
Super Mario Party - 900p (not confirmed).
Pokemon Pikachu / Eevee - 1080p.
Smash Bros Ultimate - 1080p.
Yoshi - Dynamic 720p.
Mario Maker 2 - 1080p (900p in World levels).
Fire Emblem Three Houses - Dynamic 900p? (can't recall, DF video seems to have vanished).
Astral Chain - Dynamic 900p.
Link's Awakening - Dynamic 900p.

So out of sixteen first party developed / published Switch games, exactly two hit 1920x1080p native at all times. Three hit 1600x900p native at all times. Eleven games are sub 900p. I think this proves my point...

I don't think many of those games are a lock for their target framerate either even considering the resolution trade offs. Lowering the rendering resolution doesn't automatically give you twice the framerate or even much of a boost at all. That's just not how it works when the CPU or memory bandwidth is the bottleneck.

Of course a lot of the Wii U ports run at 1080p due to the extra GPU headroom Switch has over it.

I'm quite happy with my Switch but I also understand the limitations of a mobile chipset and how everything from heat to power consumption has to be balanced around a chipset Nintendo themselves did not design thus has certain bottlenecks with regards to their own games rendering resolution - namely CPU clockspeed, GPU fillrate and memory bandwidth.

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This is a great post.

For a long time, there was a narrative online, despite indications as early as The Breath of the Wild, that games simply weren't optimized for the Switch because they started on Wii U/3DS, and that in a year or two, performance will be better.

I think it's clear at this point that that narrative is mostly bullshit, and that the memory bandwidth of the first gen Tegra X1 in particular is majorly holding back the system. (Obviously we sometimes hit CPU and GPU limitations as well, but I think my point is the system is not balanced).

It just sucks, because I really thought the Switch was going to be the system where I no longer care about graphics anymore. 720p handheld (wow!). 900p docked. Life is good. Instead, we got a system where we are constantly reminded of the hardware limitations, through garbage sometimes even sub-SD resolutions, poor frame rates, or bland/empty environments.

I was really hoping the new Switch (FKA "Switch Pro") was going to throw some of us more sensitive to this a bone. But, while that could still happen, we don't have any indication that it will at this point.

 

[Deleted member 18161]

This is a great post.

For a long time, there was a narrative online, despite indications as early as The Breath of the Wild, that games simply weren't optimized for the Switch because they started on Wii U/3DS, and that in a year or two, performance will be better.

I think it's clear at this point that that narrative is mostly bullshit, and that the memory bandwidth of the first gen Tegra X1 in particular is majorly holding back the system. (Obviously we sometimes hit CPU and GPU limitations as well, but I think my point is the system is not balanced).

It just sucks, because I really thought the Switch was going to be the system where I no longer care about graphics anymore. 720p handheld (wow!). 900p docked. Life is good. Instead, we got a system where we are constantly reminded of the hardware limitations, through garbage sometimes even sub-SD resolutions, poor frame rates, or bland/empty environments.

I was really hoping the new Switch (FKA "Switch Pro") was going to throw some of us more sensitive to this a bone. But, while that could still happen, we don't have any indication that it will at this point.

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There really should be a docked only performance mode where clocks could be pushed even if it was only available in the latest model. Hacked units show the headroom Nintendo have to play with. With 40 million units sold and every series breaking records there doesn't seem to be a need to though...

Ah well... maybe with NX 2 :P

 

[Sub Boss]

The video is very sad at the end 🤧

 

[Beer Monkey]

I finally played a little. The aliasing is more bothersome at 65 inches than the actual resolution.

Maybe forcing it to 720p and using an anti aliasing cable is actually applicable here.

 

[Trisc]

What's the point of double buffer vsync?

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To make us suffer.

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Why are we here? Just to buffer?

 

[CloseTalker]

I've never seen a first party Nintendo game run this poorly. The frame rate is consistently noticeably poor to the point it detracts from the experience, and im generally super forgiving of this stuff. It's crazy that it runs so consistently worse than BotW.

Great game, I'm enjoying the hell out of it, but I can't give nintendo a pass for such poor performance just because it's Zelda

 

[JaseMath]

I hope the issues are (mostly) ironed out by the time I pick this up during Black Friday.

 

[blame space]

I've never seen a first party Nintendo game run this poorly. The frame rate is consistently noticeably poor to the point it detracts from the experience, and im generally super forgiving of this stuff. It's crazy that it runs so consistently worse than BotW.

Great game, I'm enjoying the hell out of it, but I can't give nintendo a pass for such poor performance just because it's Zelda

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The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (1998)

 

[CloseTalker]

The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (1998)

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Haha yeah that's true. I admittedly didn't think that far back, but I suppose N64 is full of worse cases than this

 

[brainchild]

I.e. no RAM left to store more render targets/buffers

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Ironically, loading data into RAM with the render targets/buffers that do fit within budget makes double-buffered v-sync nearly just as problematic. I'd almost rather have tearing. Almost.

 

[SiG]

Ironically, loading data into RAM with the render targets/buffers that do fit within budget makes double-buffered v-sync nearly just as problematic. I'd almost rather have tearing. Almost.

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Makes me wonder why they couldn't utilize Nvidia's Fast Sync. Switch own LCD displays don't support it?

 

[Zero83]

I have had the game preordered, and I was looking forward to playing it this weekend.
Apperently the company I ordered from use the Swedish (?) company PostNord to deliver, instead of the Norwegian standard Posten. Which means that the mail man doesn't deliver it to my mail box with all other mail. Instead, an outsourced company left it «in front of the door» of my apartment building in the middle of Oslo city. I know for a fact that PostNord doesn't have access to door keys, so this is how they deliver mail to their users.
Not surprisingly, there was no package in front of the apartment building when I got home from work Friday. A Switch game case is smaller than a blue-ray case and I paid 66 USD for it. They basically left it on the streets. PostNord now considers the item «delivered».

 

[ShadowFox08]

2 main reasons are memory limit and response times.

I.e. no RAM left to store more render targets/buffers and faster response unless you start asyncing your render and game logic across frames.

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V2 switch could theoretically get upclocked for 33-40% RAM with it's DDR4X Ram. I say they should start experimenting.

 

[Beer Monkey]

OK, I'm now playing it with hacks, on a hacked Switch. Installed on internal storage, forced into handheld profile (720p rendering maximum) but with docked clock speeds. This looks and feels better to my eyes on a 4K 65" OLED. I think it was brainchild that first suggested this?

Now I'm even more curious how it would look on this exact same setup but an anti-aliasing HDMI cable.

Edit: Accidentally wrote "not playing it with hacks" when I meant "now playing".

 

[brainchild]

OK, I'm not playing it with hacks, on a hacked Switch. Installed on internal storage, forced into handheld profile (720p rendering maximum) but with docked clock speeds. This looks and feels better to my eyes on a 4K 65" OLED. I think it was brainchild that first suggested this?

Now I'm even more curious how it would look on this exact same setup but an anti-aliasing HDMI cable.

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We only suggested the internal memory install, but it makes sense that it performs better with docked speeds and handheld profile since it's likely the allocation of more bandwidth intensive render targets during loading/data streaming that causes hitches in the framerate in the first place.

EDIT:

Actually let me re-phrase that. Considering the use of the post-process tilt-shift blur, there might a ping-pong process at work where the effect relies on a sort of multipass-like buffer swapping mechanism, and this could eat up RAM bandwidth pretty quickly. Add loading/data streaming into the mix and then you have a memory management issue on your hands, so fast storage, lower-resolution render targets, and sufficient clock speeds would all be useful in helping with this issue.

 

[inspectah]

OK, I'm not playing it with hacks, on a hacked Switch. Installed on internal storage, forced into handheld profile (720p rendering maximum) but with docked clock speeds. This looks and feels better to my eyes on a 4K 65" OLED. I think it was brainchild that first suggested this?

Now I'm even more curious how it would look on this exact same setup but an anti-aliasing HDMI cable.

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I'm doing the same on a OLED and honestly, the difference in resolution is barely noticeable to me.

 

[Beer Monkey]

I'm doing the same on a OLED and honestly, the difference in resolution is barely noticeable to me.

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I'm not convinced that on a big 4K screen running in 970p or whatever the fuck it is, is an improvement over 720p, because it adds non-integer scaling which exacerbates the visibility of aliasing. Maybe the only people who benefit from these 'between 720p and 1080p' resolutions are the ones with 1080p TVs, where even 720p has to get non-integer scaled.

Nintendo perhaps needs to rethink the approach to the development of games that can't hit 1080p all the time. Yes, I'm aware that there are outsourced developers but they can be given parameters.

 

[PKrockin]

That's incredibly disappointing that both the resolution and framerate drops frequently given this is a flagship Nintendo release. Grezzo pls, I expected better.

 

[Save Now Chicken 25%]

Watching my video before it finishes processing, it's playing in 30fps. I did the capture in 60fps, so it'll catch up once it's finished processing. Watch it now though... it's basically 30fps locked on the capture and I don't see any stuttering/frame drops, etc.

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Yeah this looked utterly fine. There was some hitching but whatev. I'd say the aliasing was more noticeable. Also lol Molderm looks like cheeseburgers.

 

[Cup O' Tea?]

I'm a little surprised at the technical issues considering how unambitious the game's visuals are.

 

[60fps]

I've never seen a first party Nintendo game run this poorly. The frame rate is consistently noticeably poor to the point it detracts from the experience, and im generally super forgiving of this stuff. It's crazy that it runs so consistently worse than BotW.

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I agree that I also expected better from Nintendo but:

I wish BotW ran in 60fps with just minor drops!

 

[Perona]

This game looks good and I'd probably enjoy it a lot but I just can't bring myself to pay $60 for a straight remake of a GB game with nothing really added.

 

[Firebrand]

Why are we here? Just to buffer?

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I appreciate this post.

 

[60fps]

Based on the first few minutes I thought the framerate drops would bother me but in the long term they really don't.

I still think load times for entering/leaving interiors could be faster (digital game version on High Speed SD card).

Still hoping for fixes!

Man, the performance issues and resolution are a bit sad to see. DF seems to be more positive about it than me from the video, but I already don't love the art style used, so these issues objectively make it worse.

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It is unmissable but they should have talked about the inexcusable framerate in their subtitle. They are here to inform people about technical stuff, particularly when it's such a damn important problem like here, they are not a review site.

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In my experience DF seems to be extremely biased towards Nintendo (Switch).

 

[Equanimity]

Based on the first few minutes I thought the framerate drops would bother me but in the long term they really don't.

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You have failed your name :p