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nelsonroyale

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,128
I think it looks incredible, but I also agree that it hasn't obviously exceeded the competition in any respect beside animations, and is instead simply up there with the best of them (HZD, RDR2, UC4, Gears 5, FH4, God of War, Detroit etc). That said, the game is still 5 months out, and given polishing is often the final stage of development, it's too early to judge.

For me, Horizon Zero Dawn/Frozen Wilds is actually presently still the best looking game this gen, which shouldn't be too surprising given I also thought KZ2/3 were the best looking last gen. I just find that GG marriages a perfect blend of tech and art that simply appeals to my preferences more than any other.

Death Stranding is going to surpass Horizon graphically for sure.

Some of the environments in the trailer looked much more impressive than what was shown in the gameplay footage here. But I also think Death Stranding is the wild card...The terrain rendering is just...superb, as are the character models. Now if the lighting is dynamic then I think it will overall take the crown from RDR2. I still reckon TLOU2 when all is said and done will be as impressive in its own right, but I am really liking what DS is doing, particularly the environmental transformations. Of course, FFVIIR is looking to bring it on the spectacle side of things. Some great looking games going to hit in the near future!
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
Am I the only one that thinks the grassy area looks kinda flat for a Naughty Dog game? From what I remember of Uncharted 4, foliage would be drenched with specular highlights even in shaded areas or missions with a cloudy TOD. Here it just looks bland and dull.

Only on wet levels, when not raining the leaves and foloige look kinda flat with very little sun light reflections.
They actually changed this aspect in the E3 demo of UC4, the leaves all reflected light but in the final game they did not, however it was more an artistic choice because wet levels do have the wet leaves.
 

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
people are confusing art style with graphics...its hard to parse details beween TLOU 2 and TLOU1 because they both have a similar dark art style focused on the same types of environments and such. But the underlying tech and fidelity and detail is clearly on another level
 

Andromeda

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,846
They could still push the resolution more, to something like 2X 1080p native though. Just not checkerboard it. 1440p is on the absolute low end of PS4 Pro enhanced games.
Not that much of a difference actually. 2x 1080p is about 1530p. What matters is how it'll look in the end.

Native res is better in motion because there are no artifacts from the reconstruction. Apparently TLOU2 is a game that is often moving fast from what I could tell. We also have already seen in Monster Hunter World and RDR2 that CBR doesn't work well with vegetation and it seems there is plenty of that in that game.

I think we should trust the devs on that one if they feel native 1440p is better than 4K CBR. Particularly if there isn't any dynamic res and the res is stable.
 

leng jai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
15,118
The art style of TLOU fits ND's strengths perfectly, the amount of hand made bespoke assets and overall micro detail will be insane in the final game.
 
May 18, 2018
687
Watching the latest gameplay footage compared to the e3, in my eyes does not look as sharp at all, regardless of it being different areas.

The e3 footage looks much sharper to me.

Either away, I ain't gonna be able to wait over 9 months for a ps5 version so I'll be there 21/2/20. Playing it again on ps5 will be a good reason to replay it.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,344
A bit dispointing no comparisons were made to the E3 2018 demo apart from some animation stuff.
Hard to compare an area with completely different lighting. Although tbh i'd be surprised if it matches moments like this in the final game:
TheLastofUsPart2_10.jpg

TheLastofUsPart2_06.jpg



I wonder if that enemy slide-in is going to be tweaked so they enter through halfway opened doors or other tight areas in a more natural way?

Dude enters that room like he's C-3PO ffs.

c3poanimationswzkp7.png
Pretty sure Ellie's animation is just as stiff if you remove the incredibly intimate camera work. It's hard getting a maneuver like that blend with other animations on top of looking and feeling natural. Especially in a game like this where several places in the environment are flagged as "squeeze-throughs."
 
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Feb 10, 2018
17,534
Hard to compare an area with completely different lighting.


Pretty sure Ellie's animation is just as stiff if you remove the incredibly intimate camera work. It's hard getting a maneuver like that to not only look natural, but to also blend well with other animations. Especially in a game like this where several places in the environment are flagged as "squeezethroughs."
Yes. Which is why I said I'll wait fir the retail comparison...
 

Ricky_R

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,997
Hard to compare an area with completely different lighting.


Pretty sure Ellie's animation is just as stiff if you remove the incredibly intimate camera work. It's hard getting a maneuver like that to not only look natural, but to also blend well with other animations. Especially in a game like this where several places in the environment are flagged as "squeezethroughs."

It was a joke, although I wouldn't mind if they find a workaround of course.
 

Equanimity

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,992
London
Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I can't understand what you're saying.

I hear ya, but that feels like a wild stretch to me.

Take a shot every time they mention 'details' in the video and then try to convince me they meant something else... eh. We disagree, it's fine.

Yeah, I don't think we'll come to an agreement on what he meant. Best to wait for the gold analysis.
 

Deleted member 18161

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,805
I think it looks incredible, but I also agree that it hasn't obviously exceeded the competition in any respect beside animations, and is instead simply up there with the best of them (HZD, RDR2, UC4, Gears 5, FH4, God of War, Detroit etc). That said, the game is still 5 months out, and given polishing is often the final stage of development, it's too early to judge.

For me, Horizon Zero Dawn/Frozen Wilds is actually presently still the best looking game this gen, which shouldn't be too surprising given I also thought KZ2/3 were the best looking last gen. I just find that GG marriages a perfect blend of tech and art that simply appeals to my preferences more than any other.

AAA games in general now look phenomenal. It's largely down to artistic talent and time (budget).

The tech aspect is of course very interesting but there's little to be achieved comparing them head to head in a "what game looks best" argument except in a console warz dick measuring contest :p

If every game was native 4k/60fps I wonder what people would argue about lol.
 

leng jai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
15,118
AAA games in general now look phenomenal. It's largely down to artistic talent and time (budget).

The tech aspect is of course very interesting but there's little to be achieved comparing them head to head in a "what game looks best" argument except in a console warz dick measuring contest :p

If every game was native 4k/60fps I wonder what people would argue about lol.

There's a lot more to tech than resolution and frame rate. Definitely some developers who know how to use high end rendering techniques better and more efficiently regardless of art style.
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
Hard to compare an area with completely different lighting. Although tbh i'd be surprised if it matches moments like this in the final game:

TheLastofUsPart2_10.jpg

TheLastofUsPart2_06.jpg

There's actually one snippet from the new release date trailer that is actually from this same area, and it matches up pretty much perfectly.

In fact I think the car that the lady shoots Ellie from on top of in the new trailer, is the very car you can see in the distance in this gif below from the old gameplay demo.

E3 2018 Gameplay Reveal Trailer.

vGtWeR3.gif


vhLSSYY.gif


2019 Release Date Trailer.

autYvl5.gif
 

Karppuuna

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
332
E3 trailer was almost completely legit, but you can see that is was scripted and some animations was improved.
Graphically is pretty close to the truth and animation is close enough.
 

YukiroCTX

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,995
Great video, wish it were longer and had footage comparing to the first game showing the difference. The details are really impressive for sure. I could kind of see why CB rendering would be unappealing in that regard even if it does output more pixels given the direction of the visuals.

Also pointed out I never seen before is the dust particles which are very impressive an the way the light shines on it. One thing I think this game nails down is the ambient lighting. There are times in games in their previous games like Uncharted that aren't very flattering under these conditions. I actually think even other first party titles also have this problem like GOW.

Kind of curious how the snow tech compares to other games as well. I think Frozen wild's might have been my favourite thus far and this looks on par at least.
 

Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,003
Why do you care? You're on record as saying it's too gruesome for you to play, so surely there are other things worth your time commenting on unless your post is in bad faith or intended to cause some argument irrelevant to the thread.
Eh? It's hardly irrelevant to talk about performance in a DF thread. And I think it's strange that ND mocked 30fps and talked about how much better 60fps was for TLOU1 if they go with 30fps in the second one. What makes TLOUp2 escape the downsides of 30fps that they thought made TLOU1 so bad?
 

madgorillaz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
441
This game visually looks nearly as good or better than any other game on the market, and then *on top* of that, it's pushing animations and AI to a level we've never seen before.
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
Eh? It's hardly irrelevant to talk about performance in a DF thread. And I think it's strange that ND mocked 30fps and talked about how much better 60fps was for TLOU1 if they go with 30fps in the second one. What makes TLOUp2 escape the downsides of 30fps that they thought made TLOU1 so bad?

Do you have receipts on them mocking 30fps?

And it's pretty obvious that ND still see the inherent value or benefits afforded by sticking to 30fps, much like I'd imagine most gamers with some semblance of common sense or knowledge on these things understand why too, eg the ability to have bigger and more ambitious worlds and/or much higher graphical fidelity. This much is evidenced in the fact that UC4, TLL and now TLOU2 are all 30fps games in their campaigns.

It honestly comes off as though you're being intellectually dishonest here.
 
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ElNerdo

Member
Oct 22, 2018
2,231
Too much emphasis has been put on 4K, native or otherwise.. A game should be more than just resolution. I'd take a 1440p game with tons of details over an 1800p cb/4K*(native or otherwise) game with less details.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,030
*referring to DF mentioning RDR2*
Ironically, I believe the NX Gamer video also mentions RDR2, but says they think RDR2 looks better. Although they may have just meant in regards to the horses and snow tech.
 

XboxCowdry

alt account
Banned
Sep 1, 2019
319
Other than some wonderfull death animations and stunning use of the tech, it's pretty sad to see how much the gameplay looks exactly like part 1. I don't like the RDR2 comparisons much either it's unfair to both games IMO
 

Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,003
Do you have receipts on them mocking 30fps?

And it's pretty obvious that ND still see the inherent value or benefits afforded by sticking to 30fps, much like I'd imagine most gamers with some semblance of common sense or knowledge on these things understand why too, eg the ability to have bigger and more ambitious worlds and/or much higher graphical fidelity. This much is evidenced in the fact that UC4, TLL and now TLOU2 are all 30fps games in their campaigns.

It honestly comes off as though you're being intellectually dishonest here.
www.gamespot.com

The Last of Us Remastered Devs Discuss Making 60fps the New Standard in Games

We try out the Last of Us Remastered edition and talk with the developers about what makes this version of the game different (besides just the graphics).

In short they said TLOU1 felt "broken" in 30fps after they had played it at 60fps. There are numerous tweets you can search yourself as well, they were going all in hyping up the 60fps feel and responsiveness and all that.

Ignore what I feel about the gruesome content in p2, it's my problem being sensitive, but I 100% assumed it would run at 60fps, to me it's all backwards to first get the fans to adapt to 60fps at the start of the gen and talk about how much better it is and then go back to 30fps in the sequel.
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498

Ok, so one guy at ND used some hyperbole, and some in the studio prefer 60fps 1080p with slightly lower graphics settings vs 30fps 1080p vs slightly higher graphics settings. Talk about missing context and what has to be sacrificed in going with 60fps over 30fps.


They already explained why they might stick with 30fps and in the end did so with UC4. Apparently Fredrik never got the memo on that side of things.

"We're actually above 30, but we locked it [for the demo], Straley explained. "We're going to do whatever it takes to make the game we want to make. If it means we could go for 60 but lose something that would really impact the player's experience, then it's our choice as developers to say, 'Well, we're going to go for the experience over the 60 frames.'"

"We had a really long, involved conversation about it with all the leads and directors," Newman said. "We just realised that, for the game we wanted to make, to make the best game possible, [30fps] was just something that we had to do."

"The same amount of geometry would take longer to make because it would have to be so heavily optimized. And so that could end up having story repercussions."



Unlike the Remaster, for games like TLOU2, UC4 etc, choosing between a 30fps target and a 60fps target was never going to be the difference of some slight graphical improvements such as was the case with TLOU Remaster.

When you target 30fps from the ground up as your primary basis, you're afforded considerably more flexibility in game design and graphical ambition, eg larger environments, larger NPC count, more geometry, higher quality models, higher quality graphics settings, higher resolutions and so on. Things that clearly ND feel are more important to their recent game campaigns than having a more fluid frame rate.

I think some people forget how much has to be sacrificed in going 60fps because they're used to seeing 60fps on expensive systems like the Xbox One X or with their super powerful gaming PC or whatever. The Xbox One X ultimately has 6 Tflops of performance, in other words considerably more than the PS4 (1.8 Tflops) and even the PS4 Pro (4.2 Tflops) , and naturally orders of magnitude more than the standard One (1.4 Tflops), hence the reason 60fps is often a more viable target, especially vs the baseline with the original system.
 
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ckareset

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Feb 2, 2018
4,977
Naughty Dog was browsing the internet too much lol. Smooth 30 with more on screen and better graphics > 60 fps.

They made the right choice
 

RivalGT

Member
Dec 13, 2017
6,397
www.gamespot.com

The Last of Us Remastered Devs Discuss Making 60fps the New Standard in Games

We try out the Last of Us Remastered edition and talk with the developers about what makes this version of the game different (besides just the graphics).

In short they said TLOU1 felt "broken" in 30fps after they had played it at 60fps. There are numerous tweets you can search yourself as well, they were going all in hyping up the 60fps feel and responsiveness and all that.

Ignore what I feel about the gruesome content in p2, it's my problem being sensitive, but I 100% assumed it would run at 60fps, to me it's all backwards to first get the fans to adapt to 60fps at the start of the gen and talk about how much better it is and then go back to 30fps in the sequel.
The last of us remaster at launch was kinda broken with its 30 fps mode. Best I can explain is that it wasn't smooth like what you expect a 30 fps console game to be. I don't know when they fixed it, but when I played it on the pro at 30 fps it was fine. I don't think anyone called them out at the time, everyone was just so surprised how much better 60 fps was compared to 30.
 

Firefly

Member
Jul 10, 2018
8,633
Ok, so one guy at ND used some hyperbole, and some in the studio prefer 60fps 1080p with slightly lower graphics settings vs 30fps 1080p vs slightly higher graphics settings. Talk about missing context and what has to be sacrificed in going with 60fps over 30fps.
Hey I just gave you the receipts. Sticking to 30fps is a good call for their games as far as I'm concerned.
 

ckareset

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Feb 2, 2018
4,977
*referring to DF mentioning RDR2*
Ironically, I believe the NX Gamer video also mentions RDR2, but says they think RDR2 looks better. Although they may have just meant in regards to the horses and snow tech.
RDR2 probably shortened a few lives and to create but yeah its the best looking game I've ever seen.
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
The last of us remaster at launch was kinda broken with its 30 fps mode. Best I can explain is that it wasn't smooth like what you expect a 30 fps console game to be. I don't know when they fixed it, but when I played it on the pro at 30 fps it was fine. I don't think anyone called them out at the time, everyone was just so surprised how much better 60 fps was compared to 30.

The 30fps mode was just generally borked on the base PS4. It barely offered any graphical improvement vs the 60fps mode, and in some instances it was actually graphically worse, eg it may have improved shadow quality slightly, but at the same time it reduced shadow range. It also felt like it had frame pacing issues.

The difference between 30fps and 60fps is far more pronounced and well managed on the Pro, where the 30fps locked mode gives you a native 4k resolution, whilst in the 60fps locked mode you're stuck with 1080p.
 

Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,003
They already explained why they might stick with 30fps and in the end did so with UC4. Apparently Fredrik never got the memo on that side of things.
I "got the memo" :P That's for UC4, it's another IP. For TLOU remastered the team and Druckmann himself said they preferred 60fps no contest beceause of the look, feel, responsiveness etc. And it's not like us gamers feel otherwise, it played a ton better at 60fps. And now we're apparently back to 30fps again. For PS4 at least... I assume we'll see a Remastered version at 60fps on PS5.
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
I "got the memo" :P That's for UC4, it's another IP. For TLOU remastered the team and Druckmann himself said they preferred 60fps no contest beceause of the look, feel, responsiveness etc. And it's not like us gamers feel otherwise, it played a ton better at 60fps. And now we're apparently back to 30fps again. For PS4 at least... I assume we'll see a Remastered version at 60fps on PS5.

60fps is without doubt more responsive and fluid than 30fps, the problem is it rarely comes as a like for like scenario, and instead sacrifices have to be made in order to achieve 60fps, sacrifices that can inhibit the scope and vision for a game, hence where context comes in.

And I absolutely expect the bolded. That way they don't have to compromise on the scope or visuals of the game, but you still get the option to experience it in 60fps eventually, the same as TLOUR or The Uncharted Collection. You may not even need to buy a Remaster for that option, since Sony have already confirmed the PS5 will have backwards compatibility, and it may very well have automatic frame rate or graphics improvements for older PS4 games too.
 

Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,003
You may not even need to buy a Remaster for that option, since Sony have already confirmed the PS5 will have backwards compatibility, and it may very well have automatic frame rate or graphics improvements for older PS4 games too.
That's my nummer one wish for next gen. And less fan noise. I don't have a Pro so after GoW I kind of just sat myself up on the fence to wait for PS5 in the hope for better performance in some games I don't want to "waste" on my launch PS4.
 

Deleted member 18161

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,805
There's a lot more to tech than resolution and frame rate. Definitely some developers who know how to use high end rendering techniques better and more efficiently regardless of art style.

Of course. My point was that with all things being equal in terms of every game being 4k/60fps it really would come down to personal preference as most of the big AAA games this gen - RDR2, AC Odyssey, Detroit, Gears 5, Forza Horizon 4, Horizon, God of War, TLOU II etc all look phenomenal.

It was different last gen where a few AAA games were head and shoulders above everything else.
 

Fastidioso

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
3,101
I don't want to be that person but I can't avoid to join to the people who feel disappointed about the Pro support by them. They just put the 1440p rendering and that's it. No 60 fps mode, no improvement in graphic setting, nothing of nothing. That's extremely disappointing knowing their competence. Even AAA put more dedication on the Pro in their release.
 
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jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,657
Did I hear that right, their video is 800mbps? Surely they meant 80, which is still absurd.
Am I the only one that thinks the grassy area looks kinda flat for a Naughty Dog game? From what I remember of Uncharted 4, foliage would be drenched with specular highlights even in shaded areas or missions with a cloudy TOD. Here it just looks bland and dull.
I agree. Aesthetically that area just looks very dull. Flat, like you said.

Eh? It's hardly irrelevant to talk about performance in a DF thread. And I think it's strange that ND mocked 30fps and talked about how much better 60fps was for TLOU1 if they go with 30fps in the second one. What makes TLOUp2 escape the downsides of 30fps that they thought made TLOU1 so bad?
They were really excited to get TLOU running at 60fps, like it was some kinda revelation lol. They were misguided in thinking they could get UC4 running at 60fps though. I kinda feel sorry for them, but hey, maybe next gen they'll actual design their games for a higher framerate. They did after all ship UC4 multiplayer at 60fps-ish, so they still care on some level.
 
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Mar 29, 2018
7,078
Man, I'll play this on Pro at launch, and that's very impressive that it runs so well at such a high res on PS4, but I do hope it gets patched to 4K60+ for PS5, because I really want to see it running at those specs, and I'm not rebuying games this time.
They know people will buy twice. It will be remastered and you will buy it again.
 

CanisMajoris

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
890
I think RDR2 does look better in that area indeed!

Hmm.. In what way?

Just asking because It's really hard to make those kind of comparisons to begin with as everyone can pick and choose any condition in RDR2 locations now that the game is out, non-blizzard snow areas in RDR2 don't really have as much detail as these and lighting and shading quality is higher in TLOU2 too.

***

I don't see any game topping this till the end of the gen tbh. Control has great tech but ultimately budget is evident and RDR2, despite being a monster on it's own, is still an open world game with inherent open world visual flaws.
 

1.21Gigawatts

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,278
Munich
What stood out the most to me in the DF video was the juxtaposition of the TLoU2 snow section with the RDR2 snow section.
While I remember RDR2 looking incredible, it just didn't compare to the snow section in TLoU2. The level of detail just doesn't even begin to compare.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,344
Hmm.. In what way?

Just asking because It's really hard to make those kind of comparisons to begin with as everyone can pick and choose any condition in RDR2 locations now that the game is out, non-blizzard snow areas in RDR2 don't really have as much detail as these and lighting and shading quality is higher in TLOU2 too.

***

I don't see any game topping this till the end of the gen tbh. Control has great tech but ultimately budget is evident and RDR2, despite being a monster on it's own, is still an open world game with inherent open world visual flaws.
Control and Man of Medan on PC both match what I expect from next gen titles compared to this when it comes to visuals. Control especially due to the physic skills and raytracinng support. Ofc neither touch this game when it comes to the consistency of the animation quality.
 

CanisMajoris

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
890
You can't just say TLOU 2 is better looking than RDR 2 as a fact like you've been doing, you should stop.

Well It's obviously my opinion, looks are subjective.
Now visual fidelity is something that can be perceived more or less objectively as sheer quality/density of certain aspects can be undeniably higher compared to something similar. In this comparison RDR2 is one of the examples.

Ofc neither touch this game when it comes to the consistency of the animation quality.
I'm not talking about animation or other features that stand above anything else for sure, just pure visual fidelity.

I also don't think "Pretty" and "Great graphics" are necessarily same, fwiw.
 
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Kenzodielocke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,849
The thing that bothers me is the laggy snow prints at some gameplay scenes. But it's also not a game that is finished yet so maybe they'll fix it.