The big Xbox Series S interview: why Microsoft made an entry-level next-gen console
We knew it was in development, we even got to see it during our visit to the Microsoft campus back in March - but today…
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Digital Foundry: "The big Xbox Series S interview: why Microsoft made an entry-level next-gen console"
- Thread starter Dakhil
- Start date
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The point about the cost reduction curve not giving them as much room is a really good point I hadn't thought about before.
So basically, they want a product with mass market appeal but since production cost is not expected to decrease much with improved manufacturing processes in the near future, they could just as well make that product today with available manufacturing processes.
Next holiday I can see the Series S being a very popular option for people that are casual players or have kids, especially if they bundle it with Game Pass or a popular game like Fortnite, Minecraft or Lego.
they did it for me
re-jumping into the xbox ecosystem, thanks to my old ass 1080p tv screen, and Gamepass (I basically will have the entire Xbox One generation to enjoy waiting for brand new games), waiting for a slim PS5 model in a couple of years (too expensive and big for me, right now)
so a perfect mid-step from previous generation into the new one imho
re-jumping into the xbox ecosystem, thanks to my old ass 1080p tv screen, and Gamepass (I basically will have the entire Xbox One generation to enjoy waiting for brand new games), waiting for a slim PS5 model in a couple of years (too expensive and big for me, right now)
so a perfect mid-step from previous generation into the new one imho
So how much is the Series S costing them out of the gate? Lots of good information in that article,
"I've read a lot of question on the internet, like, why isn't Microsoft going to continue Xbox One X as the low-end machine. Well, one thing is that it would last a long time through the generation and we felt that the new generation is defined by aspects such as the Xbox Velocity Architecture, and graphics features such as variable rate shading and ray tracing and the 4x processing performance boost on the CPU," counters Goossen. "And so we wanted to make sure that there was an entry level at the right price-point so that we could really advance the generation rather than hold it back. I've heard that Series S is going to hold back the next generation but I actually see Series S advancing it because by doing Series S we'll have more games written to the characteristics of the next generation."
"I've read a lot of question on the internet, like, why isn't Microsoft going to continue Xbox One X as the low-end machine. Well, one thing is that it would last a long time through the generation and we felt that the new generation is defined by aspects such as the Xbox Velocity Architecture, and graphics features such as variable rate shading and ray tracing and the 4x processing performance boost on the CPU," counters Goossen. "And so we wanted to make sure that there was an entry level at the right price-point so that we could really advance the generation rather than hold it back. I've heard that Series S is going to hold back the next generation but I actually see Series S advancing it because by doing Series S we'll have more games written to the characteristics of the next generation."
Gonna keep reading but I'm glad you did that second quote OP (I was going to before checking). I thought Moore's Law was almost dead because we hadn't seen that price reduction curve in consoles this generation, at least not as much in previous generation. And it makes sense that they'd just do an entry-level at the start of it's not there.
I thought this was noteworthy why Xbox didn't just keep Xbox One X as the low end console for next gen instead of designing the Series S.
He is not wrong with this statement, because price on those new consoles won't come down as fast as with previous generations due RAM & SoC not decreasing in cost as much. This means price sensitive people are easier hooked with a console that starts out cheaper to begin with. More people owning next gen consoles means more publishers will leave behind last gen consoles like PS4/Xb1.
A really interesting interview - while you can certainly argue with the wisdom of launching with two distinct SKUs, the logic laid out here is completely sound in terms of launching an entry level device now when you're not likely to see substantial cost reductions when it comes to the build cost.
I also think any reduction in the cost of SSDs will probably go towards a 1TB XSS and/or 2TB XSX before anything else.
I also think any reduction in the cost of SSDs will probably go towards a 1TB XSS and/or 2TB XSX before anything else.
This is a really good explanation of the mid-to-longer-term advantage of having their lower-end offering still under the same technological framework, so those users benefit for longer. And something I still think is worth pointing out is that the Series S is a lower MSRP than either the 1X or Pro, and effectively the same price as the last-gen systems at retail.
True and they gave a good explanation why they want to drop Xbox One X.
I actually thought that was the plan all along. As someone who works in retail the average customer comes into store thinking they're getting a more powerful console and a cheaper one with Series S. Okay it's not that simple and you do have to explain the difference but it shows that the confusion created with Series S and Series X is working in their favour because it has people talking. But I've also had enough conversations with parents explaining the difference between XBOX One S, XBOX One X, Series S and Series X and then the comparison to PlayStation. Being back in lock down thankfully I won't have to explain again for a while.
Great article, shows MS have put alot of thought into this, they made the right choice. Once the games start rolling out, can see people jumping in a lot sooner then usual, especially when XSX price will most likely remain static for the foreseeable future.
A cost of a One S, outside of any particular sale, is currently £250. That includes a 4K Blu-ray drive, but it does give you a sense of the value on offer.
This is interesting:
It seems like back-compat titles on Series S will run them not like a One S (or One X of course), but their own settings?
It seems like back-compat titles on Series S will run them not like a One S (or One X of course), but their own settings?
Will it really? It's already doing Ray tracing in games at 1080p. Some games are 120fps and it also a step up from the One X is every regard outside of available RAM.
I remain convinced that the S is a bad value long-term with very few exceptions.
Why? Because gPU-wise, 4TF for 299 is a way worse value than 12TF for 499.
Value per GPU teraflop:
XboxS: 13.3 Gigaflaps per $
XboxX: 24 Gigaflips per $
Based on GPU alone, the X is 1.8x the value. That's almost double. Now add in extra SSD, extra CPU and a BluRay drive and it's definitely double the value.
Now if you're 100% not going to upgrade your 1080p tv during the entire xboxS lifecycle, then maybe, MAYBE it makes sense. Or if you're giving it to that nephew that's playing it on a 22" screen, then sure, they won't notice the rez with a screen that tiny.
But outside of those cases, if you want an xbox and want long term value, get an X is my advice.
Why? Because gPU-wise, 4TF for 299 is a way worse value than 12TF for 499.
Value per GPU teraflop:
XboxS: 13.3 Gigaflaps per $
XboxX: 24 Gigaflips per $
Based on GPU alone, the X is 1.8x the value. That's almost double. Now add in extra SSD, extra CPU and a BluRay drive and it's definitely double the value.
Now if you're 100% not going to upgrade your 1080p tv during the entire xboxS lifecycle, then maybe, MAYBE it makes sense. Or if you're giving it to that nephew that's playing it on a 22" screen, then sure, they won't notice the rez with a screen that tiny.
But outside of those cases, if you want an xbox and want long term value, get an X is my advice.
Of course not, Series S is next gen, One X isnt. Benefits of SSD, RDNA2, VA will not be available for One X. Which is going to be snuffed out soon. It's a dead console.
Very insightful interview! Feature parity and lower upfront costs were a big part of the decision to design Series S instead of lowering Xbox One S/X prices. Also, they say something revealing for the next-gen of consoles. Silicon costs (Aka: Manufacturing process) are getting bigger and bigger, therefore, shrinks of consoles SoC to smaller nodes aren't going to reduce costs that much(Might even increase costs). Factor in the fact that RAM costs aren't decreasing by much over the years and i can see these consoles(And i'm including the PS5) maintaining theirs MSRP until the end of the gen.
What was more interesting to me is that it sounds like the "doubling the framerate" technique/method the BC team created will apply to a greater number of BC games than I originally thought.
Regardless of what you think, all games coming to Microsoft Xbox Series will run on both Series S and Series X. Both have the same long-term value of playing games.
Buying a jaguar CPU console in 2020 is equivalent to dangling an anchor from your neck.
>95% of people buying a console don't know what FLOPS are. Hell, I don't really know outside of it being used as a rough indicator of power - it's been a lonngggg time since I've done computer studies at school.
Finished it, great interview! As Rich says time will tell but I'm hoping that Series S really will be the same console that can only output at 1080p. And when they talked about 8 GB RAM being available to devs I couldn't help but be reminded of that being minimum specs on a lot of PC games now.
Great read. Lots of really good info and perspective in there about their line of thinking when putting the machines together.
Most people kept the base consoles last gen. they just want new games at an affordable price.
now do this math with a digital edition ps5.
I completely agree though. Series S is not a great value in my eyes at all.
No way. There are 4K games on the One X that won't run at 4K on the Series S, sure. But the Series S isn't a 4K console, it's aimed at 1080p users.
But even as a 4K user, if all my Xboxes broke today and the only replacement I was ever gonna get was a One X or a Series S I'd take the Series S every time. It's a next gen console with a next gen SSD and CPU and it'll run every next gen only game that will be leaving the One X in the dust. That's why the One X has been discontinued. It's £100 more expensive than the Series S and is outdated tech as of today.
Yeah, same. I guess it's the unfortunate reality of nearing the physical limits of fabrication. I wonder if that means these new consoles are going to hold pretty firm to their launch MSRP for longer than usual
Yeah, this interview really cemented the justification for the existence of the Xbox Series S. I'm even tempted to swap my Xbox One X for one, but that will depend on the delta we see between the Series S and the One X over the next year. I do not anticipate seeing any price drops any time soon, and I wonder if we'll still even get a 3 year mid-gen refresh
Compared to what in this price bracket?
Or just buy what you can afford/need now and trade up to a more powerful option if and when you can afford/need it? You're acting like if you buy this thing, you're not allowed to upgrade.
That's what I took away from this. And I wonder what the implications are for mid-gen refreshes. Would they even be able to offer much more power without raising the starting price? I'm starting to think PS5 Pro and Xbox Series X2 will start at $599 this time
The adoption rate for 4K TVs and even moreso 120hz is pretty low and a lot of families are struggling financially, so it's great that there is a mass market device that targets that audience.
1080p/60fps is gonna be just fine for most consumers and Game pass is a great deal. Series S offers a new device this holiday season without being too expensive. Even though the PS5 DE is 399, the games are very expensive, so I don't think it is as mass market.
1080p/60fps is gonna be just fine for most consumers and Game pass is a great deal. Series S offers a new device this holiday season without being too expensive. Even though the PS5 DE is 399, the games are very expensive, so I don't think it is as mass market.
They aren't made for people thinking for long term value or $ per terraflop.
If those are anythoughts in your mind, you weren't the target market to begin with