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Digital Foundry: Star Wars Jedi Fallen Order: Every Console Tested, Tech Problems Analysed
- Thread starter chandoog
- Start date
Woah. I was kinda excited, but that base PS4 performance is ... oof. Between the DF analysis and the anecdotes in this thread, I guess I will wait to see how much the patch helps before picking this up.
Fuck that. I'm really liking the game, but I'm playing on PC where my average load time after a death is about 10 seconds (SSD). I think I'd have a much different opinion of it were I playing it on console.
Wow, that is ridiculously long. That's probably longer than me initially starting and getting into the game on PC
I have done some tests on the "X" and it still chugs/stutters every once in a while. I have 3 Storage devices on my "X".
1. 1TB SSD External
2. 1 TB Internal HDD
3. 8 TB External HDD
The stuttering happens no matter what drive the game is on. It is repeatable as well using the 1st main planet you land on. There is also another weird issue when it comes to load times. I was at a Save Point that was just 20 secs or less from the main boss on the first planet. It took me 20 tries but I finally beat that fucker...but every time I died, I would have wait for it to load. The issue is that out of let's say 10 times it had to load, 2 or 3 of those it would be 1 minute or longer for it to load, but the other 8 times or so it would be around 20-30 seconds. This is using the external SSD. It is just odd. It was random where just "sometimes" it would take well over a minute for no apparent reason, but all the other times is was pretty fast.
This to me makes it more of the engine or how they stream data or something perhaps different. Overall, I have not had major issues or frame rate problems, but when it happens it is very noticeable. The game is great, love the graphics, the play style and Story, but it just feels a bit rough and rushed. I am hoping Respawn can react quickly and fix some things.
1. 1TB SSD External
2. 1 TB Internal HDD
3. 8 TB External HDD
The stuttering happens no matter what drive the game is on. It is repeatable as well using the 1st main planet you land on. There is also another weird issue when it comes to load times. I was at a Save Point that was just 20 secs or less from the main boss on the first planet. It took me 20 tries but I finally beat that fucker...but every time I died, I would have wait for it to load. The issue is that out of let's say 10 times it had to load, 2 or 3 of those it would be 1 minute or longer for it to load, but the other 8 times or so it would be around 20-30 seconds. This is using the external SSD. It is just odd. It was random where just "sometimes" it would take well over a minute for no apparent reason, but all the other times is was pretty fast.
This to me makes it more of the engine or how they stream data or something perhaps different. Overall, I have not had major issues or frame rate problems, but when it happens it is very noticeable. The game is great, love the graphics, the play style and Story, but it just feels a bit rough and rushed. I am hoping Respawn can react quickly and fix some things.
Lmao yeah it's absolutely atrocious. If you fall off the side it respawns immediately but for whatever reason an actual death is an IRL headache.
Haha. Yeah I'm honestly baffled they didn't optimize this a little better prior to release. I have never seen this long of a load time when you're IN THE EXACT SAME AREA. It's bewildering.
(Blood)Echoes of Day 1 Bloodborne. I should think in the next patch Respawn will add flavor text to these black loading screens lol. Then fix them in ~4 months? :D
edit: how to bbcode that "click to reveal" inline not-spoiler feature on here?
Thanks.
Thanks and yes, it will be my first time. My preorder copy still hasn't come through..... And I am going in almost completely blind and as such I shall keep your advice in mind.
Oooooof, reminds me of the vids I saw of Bloodborne when it was first released. I have it arriving for Xbone X and as mentioned before I am going to put off playing the game until they patch it. DS on PS4 Pro integrated with an 860 Evo SSD should be interesting.
Everybody seems to have a missed an important detail regarding loading/respawn time.
It takes longer to respawn after you are killed /or fall down & depleting your health, because the game respawn every enemy in your vicinity. Which is not the case when you are simply respawn ed after falling and still having health left.
The more enemies in you particular area the longer it seems to take.
It takes longer to respawn after you are killed /or fall down & depleting your health, because the game respawn every enemy in your vicinity. Which is not the case when you are simply respawn ed after falling and still having health left.
The more enemies in you particular area the longer it seems to take.
Yeah I've pointed this out before. Still though, 3 small enemies takes this long to load? Lol. What's funny is I could run up to that meditation point and "rest" which respawns all enemies anyway and immediately back out with no loading. The optimization is just off.
Yeah. Resting only respawns enemies while respawning after death seems to reload a previously saved state stored on the HDD in addition to respawning enemies.
Anyways loading times don't bother me that much compared to the performance issues which are simply jarring. Maybe people will stop bitching that much about Frostbite now...
I'm happy with the way the game looks on the Xbox One X but its still quite disappointing that 1440 is the highest it goes on a '4k console'. I think it needs some optimization love or something because it definitely doesn't look like some next gen game where you can understand the struggle. It looks good, not great, not bad, just good. I actually bought Death Stranding the same day and for a console that's much weaker than the X (Pro), it looks so much better. Its stunning and photo-realistic at times. Hopefully we get some patches to make performance mode closer to 60 or quality mode closer to 4k. I doubt it though.
After playing this for several hours today (really enjoying it), I can pinpoint *some* of what is dropping frames. Not all.
There are some assets in the game that drop frames from the shaders running on them. In a cave, pull out your lightsaber but don't press the LB button. You'll notice that the game is running smoothly. Then press and hold the LB button. There is a second point light that gets rendered and it's radius is really wide. The FPS immediately tanks. Also, playing in the grass (fighting) on the 2nd planet tanks the framerate because of all the transparent polys for the grass. I'm convinced that this game is using a mix of deferred and forward rendering. The light source FPS drop is pretty common since most games tend to use only directional lights (RDR2 being an exception) which don't bog down the GPU. I also think the transparent objects tank the GPU as well. Not sure anything can be done about that except faster GPUs tbh.
There are sync issues of course. I unlocked my FPS and got too much judder moving in the tall grass. I switched to 30FPS and the movement was much better. Judder still isn't gone and that's the part I think they can fix.
There are some assets in the game that drop frames from the shaders running on them. In a cave, pull out your lightsaber but don't press the LB button. You'll notice that the game is running smoothly. Then press and hold the LB button. There is a second point light that gets rendered and it's radius is really wide. The FPS immediately tanks. Also, playing in the grass (fighting) on the 2nd planet tanks the framerate because of all the transparent polys for the grass. I'm convinced that this game is using a mix of deferred and forward rendering. The light source FPS drop is pretty common since most games tend to use only directional lights (RDR2 being an exception) which don't bog down the GPU. I also think the transparent objects tank the GPU as well. Not sure anything can be done about that except faster GPUs tbh.
There are sync issues of course. I unlocked my FPS and got too much judder moving in the tall grass. I switched to 30FPS and the movement was much better. Judder still isn't gone and that's the part I think they can fix.
Yeah it would be great to shorten the load/respawn times. Still, Witcher 3 takes longer to load after falling to your death from a very short height. If we like a game we continue to navigate its "features". I do like this game.
Finally arrived at planet K. Played the E3 opening sequence finally, was really great. Getting into the level though it seems really ambitious. Not prepared for the burden I may be.
Finally arrived at planet K. Played the E3 opening sequence finally, was really great. Getting into the level though it seems really ambitious. Not prepared for the burden I may be.
Standards change but also, more importantly, displays change. Load up a 720p game on a good CRT and it'll look stunning but scale that up to 4K on a large flat panel and it's a blur fest.
The Switch is interesting in that regard as it's also fallen behind display technology. This was the issue with the Wii where 480p looked great on an HD CRT but terrible on a flat panel.
Judging by the 1Xs performance and resolution, I would of thought the pro would be a pretty decent experience in graphics mode.
I posted the below in the main SW Jedi Fallen order thread, but thought I post it here as well. I decided to get the PC version in addition to the "X" version and those stutters that seem like small loading issues happens in the same exact spots on both PC and Xbox One X. Below is what I found/posted in the other thread.:
The little stutters people are complaining about are also in the same EXACT spots that I experience the same exact stutters/minor dips on the Xbox One X. I have the game on the PC installed on a SSD, Titan X Pascal GPU, 3930k OC to 4.8. In the majority of gameplay, like the entire starting part it was rock solid 60fps. But on the first planet, I experience the slight stutters in the same exact areas. In the 1st planet it happens when you are jumping from platform to platform right before you get to the first zip line you go down in the game. Right before reaching the Zip line it does a slight stutter/pause and then re-establishes itself. I just tested this back to back on both the PC and Xbox One X and it happens in the exact same spot.
This leads me to believe that it is definitely a streaming/loading issue. On the X I also have the game installed on a SSD, but copied it to the internal drive and it stutters in the same exact spot...on PC as mentioned it is on a SSD and the same thing. For the most part, I am at rock solid 60fps, 4k with all on Epic except shadows on high and it is pretty amazing looking and smooth...but the slight hitches that I thought were due to the consoles, is apparent and in the same places on the PC. Hopefully Respawn can fix this.
The little stutters people are complaining about are also in the same EXACT spots that I experience the same exact stutters/minor dips on the Xbox One X. I have the game on the PC installed on a SSD, Titan X Pascal GPU, 3930k OC to 4.8. In the majority of gameplay, like the entire starting part it was rock solid 60fps. But on the first planet, I experience the slight stutters in the same exact areas. In the 1st planet it happens when you are jumping from platform to platform right before you get to the first zip line you go down in the game. Right before reaching the Zip line it does a slight stutter/pause and then re-establishes itself. I just tested this back to back on both the PC and Xbox One X and it happens in the exact same spot.
This leads me to believe that it is definitely a streaming/loading issue. On the X I also have the game installed on a SSD, but copied it to the internal drive and it stutters in the same exact spot...on PC as mentioned it is on a SSD and the same thing. For the most part, I am at rock solid 60fps, 4k with all on Epic except shadows on high and it is pretty amazing looking and smooth...but the slight hitches that I thought were due to the consoles, is apparent and in the same places on the PC. Hopefully Respawn can fix this.
This analysis is actually a lot better than I got the impression of from reviews and such. Seems like quality mode on my PS4 Pro with a SSD is the way to go, and I never use the sleep mode anyway which sounds like it's causing trouble as well. I'll pick this up during Black Friday, hopefully they have patched some issues by then.
Hmmm. Well, I think it's slightly improved but overall there is still enough stuttering. However that is on Bogano, it seems on the other planet it isn't nearly as bad. Or I got used to it. I'll check later today.
Ah fuck don't tell me it gets worse! Opening was perfect. First planet it had jitters here and there (non combat)... which I thought are manageable as long as they don't get worse
Yep, that's want I meant. I actually moved it over to the internal. No reason to have it on both external and internal. :)
Can't wait to give it a watch. I am shocked at the performance on PS4 Pro though, and will follow their suggestions of not using performance mode and not using rest mode from now on.
I'm not using external storage but I have never encountered something as bad as this in a PS4 thus far.
I'm not using external storage but I have never encountered something as bad as this in a PS4 thus far.
I'm enjoying the game too much to stop playing it, but it really sucks that people who buy games at launch are getting a worse experience than those who wait a while until a few patches have come out. Playing on 1X, and while the image quality and HDR are nice, the framerate really isn't where it should be.
I'm playing it on Xbox One X and I have it on an external drive. So far, I've only had a few hiccups (I'm in resolution mode) and stutters. It's mostly smooth. My drive is maybe 50% full, so perhaps that affects it? If it were 99% full maybe it would stutter more? I dunno.
I'm loving the game, though. Absolutely loving it! It's up there with Resident Evil 2 for me in 2019. It's a real shame to see how badly it performs on the base consoles, it really detracts from it. I can see where John is coming from when he says it's a 9/10 game on X/Pro and could be a 6-7/10 game on base consoles. Performance (especially in an action game) is so important.
I'm loving the game, though. Absolutely loving it! It's up there with Resident Evil 2 for me in 2019. It's a real shame to see how badly it performs on the base consoles, it really detracts from it. I can see where John is coming from when he says it's a 9/10 game on X/Pro and could be a 6-7/10 game on base consoles. Performance (especially in an action game) is so important.
What's the best way to play this on ps4 pro? Performance or resolution?
I tried both and can't decide. I would defiantly pick performance if it was a rock solid 60fps but it never is....hovers at more like 40-50fps almost all the time. Even God of War's performance mode seemed smoother.
Resolution mode looks considerably sharper and seems to be at a much more steady 30fps but still it's 30fps and for a game that looks this good especially the combat animations and moves high frame rate really would make it amazing. The input lag introduced by being 30fps doesn't help either especially as it's not exactly a responsive game to begin with imo.
I tried both and can't decide. I would defiantly pick performance if it was a rock solid 60fps but it never is....hovers at more like 40-50fps almost all the time. Even God of War's performance mode seemed smoother.
Resolution mode looks considerably sharper and seems to be at a much more steady 30fps but still it's 30fps and for a game that looks this good especially the combat animations and moves high frame rate really would make it amazing. The input lag introduced by being 30fps doesn't help either especially as it's not exactly a responsive game to begin with imo.
I wish there was a Star Wars: Bounty Hunter 2 to capitalise on The Mandalorian.
:(
That's at least faster than TW3 :D But yeah, that's quite long.
And indeed I was not prepared. There's a big door right before the moment where DF slipped through the slats in the wall and the scene wasn't rendering. Upon opening the door I had a hard crash of the game. Restarted and went back in, was able to complete that sequence. There's something about that location of the game where the transition from one section to another is problematic.
EDIT: died right after and respawned. Went back into that room for that battle and it was very framey. Yeah definitely this room is a problem.
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Yeah it's clearly not a priority which is a shame. Most engines are still quite primitive when it comes to background processing and streaming though and it's not a cheap problem to solve properly, especially retroactively.
I can vouch for for the issues with External HDDs.
I was having all types of stutters and framerate problems when I initially played the game and was surprised when the first DF video said that it was mostly 30fps on Xbox One X. At that point, the only thing I hadn't done to try and fix the problem is swap the game into the internal HDD and sure enough, a lot of the common frame drops and stutters I saw just by moving the camera went away.
I was having all types of stutters and framerate problems when I initially played the game and was surprised when the first DF video said that it was mostly 30fps on Xbox One X. At that point, the only thing I hadn't done to try and fix the problem is swap the game into the internal HDD and sure enough, a lot of the common frame drops and stutters I saw just by moving the camera went away.
Yeah but the Switch holds up a lot better than the Wii. When I moved from my CRT to a Samsung LCD, I thought something was wrong because of how shitty it looked. I went out and bought component cables hoping it would magically help, but it still looked like crap. Mario Galaxy deserved better resolution, lol. The Switch can still look beautiful. Games like Ori, Astral Chain, Dragon Quest XI S, Luigi's Mansion 3....they still look impressive to me even after long gaming sessions on my Pro/X. I guess it just comes down to the resources available to the developer to optimize it for the system, which can't be easy with the mid-gen refreshes.
Yeah but if you play Wii on a good Sony CRT HDTV, it looks really really good.
It's bad but no worse than a FROM Software game, right?
Yeah, I've never seen a Wii on an HD CRT in person, but I know it looks great on my regular CRT. I was almost mad I had "upgraded" to a new flat panel LCD, because I couldn't enjoy the majority of my Wii games anymore.
This is where I'm at.
I love the game and if they can iron out the technical problems it will probably be my GOTY.
So true.
People have been acting like FROM games are the epitome of polish, which is insane. Sekiro is by far the most polished game they've released and that is at the tail end of the generation.
Patch on PC today. Coming later this week for consoles.
Some of the patch notes were a bit vague.
"Fixed an issued where the game could become slow and loading times longer than expected."
Does this pertain to the frame rate? Weird wording.
