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medyej

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,439
This video is a great showcase of what RT can do for shadows, most of the focus with RT has been around reflections but damn these side by sides are a huge difference. It also seems to make AO completely obsolete? Is there any reason to keep AO on while RT shadows are in use?
 

jediyoshi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,126
Great comparison shots. Nothing gets the point across quicker besides an effective side by side.
 

Dictator

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
4,931
Berlin, 'SCHLAND
This video is a great showcase of what RT can do for shadows, most of the focus with RT has been around reflections but damn these side by sides are a huge difference. It also seems to make AO completely obsolete? Is there any reason to keep AO on while RT shadows are in use?
AO does something completely different. It adds indirect shadows to already shadowed regions. It makes sense to leave on, yes.
In this case, PS5 uses SSAO, like PS4Pro.
 

nampad

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,238
After watching both the Godfall video and this, I have to say that I don't like these kind of sponsored content.
Good for them making some money out of it and the videos have been flagged appropriately. But even though the analysis might be good, it is just highlighting the positive aspects which makes the overall video seem boring. The Godfall one felt worse though.

Don't think I will continue watching any of those videos.
 

gabdeg

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,966
🐝
Do you also need to install a raytrace data pack on PS5? I'm really barely seeing any raytracing being applied to shadows in the campaign
 

Samiya

Alt Account
Banned
Nov 30, 2019
4,811
sorry to say but the performance hit by raytraced shadows isn't worth the graphical difference.

it might be nice for tech people like DF but to everyone else, it's not a noticeable difference
 

Falus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,656
So what's the best mode

120fps
60fps without rtx
60 FPS with rtx

considering resolution and framerate stability
 

Hey Please

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
22,824
Not America
Question:

Alex says that unlike Shadow maps, RT shadows do not comprise different LoD states but rather 1. If that's the case then at what distance do they actually pop-in (and stay the same) because I can't imagine all objects casting RT shadows would be drawn within the view frustum/screen space regardless of how far from the camera they are, as it would exorbitantly expensive.

Anyone?
Dictator ?
Dark1x ?
 

Dictator

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
4,931
Berlin, 'SCHLAND
The denoiser is temporal - so if a shadow reveals itself from being obscured, it will fizzle a bit and then settle over about 2 frames to be stable and high Detail.
It is not an LOD or cascades, just the fact that RT shadows in this game are sub native resolution and 1 sample per Pixel per Frame. They are probably quarter res.
 

dlauv

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,513
So RT isn't a big graphical difference?
It's rtx'd shadows which are more subtle than rtx'd reflections. Your mileage may vary as to how much it improves the atmosphere over regular shadows.

Anyhow, it's basically the difference between Miles in fidelity mode vs Miles in performance. If you want a better looking game at 30 vs a better playing game at 60. Same principle here except 60 vs 120.
 
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Hey Please

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
22,824
Not America
The denoiser is temporal - so if a shadow reveals itself from being obscured, it will fizzle a bit and then settle over about 2 frames to be stable and high Detail.
It is not an LOD or cascades, just the fact that RT shadows in this game are sub native resolution and 1 sample per Pixel per Frame. They are probably quarter res.

Es ist such a radical departure from how shadows had been done in the past. I still have your Metro Exodus example bookmarked as a go to reference for how physically accurate RT shadows can notably improve fidelity in a post resolution world. Vielen dank for the explanation.

Und, like typical shadow maps, I assume RT shadows appear at comparable range from the camera/player.
 

LebGuns

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,127
The denoiser is temporal - so if a shadow reveals itself from being obscured, it will fizzle a bit and then settle over about 2 frames to be stable and high Detail.
It is not an LOD or cascades, just the fact that RT shadows in this game are sub native resolution and 1 sample per Pixel per Frame. They are probably quarter res.
Have you by any chance looked at RT in multi? There have been many reports or significant framerate drops for prolonged periods of time and even crashes on PS5 and XSX.
 

gabdeg

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,966
🐝
Do you also need to install a raytrace data pack on PS5? I'm really barely seeing any raytracing being applied to shadows in the campaign
So the next mission had hella raytracing. Seems like, contrary to Modern Warfare, RT shadows are not mainly used for artificial lights, which threw me off. In the current mission I'm playing it is sun shadows that are being raytraced. There is also artifacting in the distance and shadows popping and out though. I wish the game had a more consistent RT implementation.

Edit: And now within the same mission suddenly no more shadows are RT. I'm just gonna stick to 120hz mode.
 
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RoboPlato

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,808
Have you by any chance looked at RT in multi? There have been many reports or significant framerate drops for prolonged periods of time and even crashes on PS5 and XSX.
I've been paying close attention to them and experimenting on and off since yesterday (on PS5). No crashes yet but the framedrops seem entirely random in MP and Zombies, more of a bug than the GPU being taxed too hard. Chaotic scenes run fine but downtime (including between rounds in zombies when there's nothing out) it can tank for no reason. Turning it off helps for now. Hope they fix it soon
 

LebGuns

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,127
I've been paying close attention to them and experimenting on and off since yesterday (on PS5). No crashes yet but the framedrops seem entirely random in MP and Zombies, more of a bug than the GPU being taxed too hard. Chaotic scenes run fine but downtime (including between rounds in zombies when there's nothing out) it can tank for no reason. Turning it off helps for now. Hope they fix it soon
Thanks, I see the exact same things. Framerate just tanks for no apparent reason.
 

guitarguy316

Member
Nov 3, 2017
1,477
It's rtx'd shadows which are more subtle than rtx'd reflections. Your mileage may vary as to how much it improves the atmosphere over regular shadows.

Anyhow, it's basically the difference between Miles in fidelity mode vs Miles in performance. If you want a better looking game at 30 vs a better playing game at 60. Same principle here except 60 vs 120.

Gotcha. I just didn't think 120fps would be needed for campaign. MP for sure.