But what about non-raytracing? Spiderman remastered is pushing 8x the pixels of a PS4 to achieve 4K 60fps.
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Digital Foundry: Spider-Man PS5 Ray Tracing analysis
- Thread starter Patitoloco
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But what about non-raytracing? Spiderman remastered is pushing 8x the pixels of a PS4 to achieve 4K 60fps.
Links to the articles would be nice so we could see the data in question, like you give us 1 screenshot of 4k data then another with 1080p and 1440p data for a different game
you see how stupid this is?
No, but both might be slower than a 2060 when you run raytracing.That is something we don't know yet as there have been no tests yet on AMD's raytracing performance.
On average a 2060s is slightly faster than a 5700 but it's so close they're more or less the same.
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Average of 17 games. Not that this matters at all when we're talking about raytracing performance though.
Links to the articles would be nice so we could see the data in question, like you give us 1 screenshot of 4k data then another with 1080p and 1440p data for a different game
you see how stupid this is?
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 Super and NVMe SSD can run Unreal Engine 5 demo on PC
It'll work with a powerful GPU and a great SSD.
www.windowscentral.com
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 Super and NVMe SSD can run Unreal Engine 5 demo on PC
It'll work with a powerful GPU and a great SSD.
I was more after the game performance data/graphs and the unreal thing was the easiest way for me to make the point that posting screenshots without links to the actual site/data/article doesn't help. So I put in low effort and got low effort results, that's on me I guess.
I do not know. We will have to wait and see.
Once again the RTX 2060S was non-arbitrarily chosen because it will be competitve or comparable to the PS5 GPU - not because it is the exact same. To repeat: NOT BECAUSE THE RTX 2060 SUPER IS THE EXACT SAME AS THE PS5 GPU. We could have gone with an RTX 2070S, but after talking with the Team we thought the RTX 2060S Was the better GPU comparison. The RTX 2060S will also be the GPU I put in a PC for my Videos. I will derive console settings for it, and see how it runs compared to the XSX and PS5 to get a better sense of where those GPUs from the consoles fit into the PC landscape. I will also use whatever middle Range RDNA2 GPU is out at that time. Or perhaps the Ampere replacement for the 2060S whenever that comes out. It will replace my midrange PC GPUs in tests that has an RX580 and GTX 1060 in it.
First off, fantastic video Alex! The thoroughness of your theoretical example really illustrated the cost/benefit when it comes to RT. Personally, I'm the type of person who would have a hard time seeing the fine details missing in action - the screenshots really expose a lot that a player probably wouldn't see during movement. I think the amount and detail of RT being implemented here is more than enough to immerse me in the game, and is a clear step up from current gen.
Thanks for this. This was the bet I made earlier this year which, once the PS5/XSX specs came out, I was worried I made the wrong one. Wanting a performance increase on my PC late last year, I upgraded my GPU to a EVGA RTX 2070S XC Ultra, partly because the TFs on this card were comparable to the performance leaks from the PS5. Once the true console specs for the PS5/XSX came out, and TFs weren't an apples-to-apples comparison, I was wondering if I had made the wrong choice, especially when it came to RT. Seems like based on this article I'll still have comparable performance to the next-gen consoles, at least until Pro revisions come out mid-gen.
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 Super and NVMe SSD can run Unreal Engine 5 demo on PC
It'll work with a powerful GPU and a great SSD.
Thanks for this. This was the bet I made earlier this year which, once the PS5/XSX specs came out, I was worried I made the wrong one. Wanting a performance increase on my PC late last year, I upgraded my GPU to a EVGA RTX 2070S XC Ultra, partly because the TFs on this card were comparable to the performance leaks from the PS5. Once the true console specs for the PS5/XSX came out, and TFs weren't an apples-to-apples comparison, I was wondering if I had made the wrong choice, especially when it came to RT. Seems like based on this article I'll still have comparable performance to the next-gen consoles, at least until Pro revisions come out mid-gen.
Yea 2070 S will be very safe till pros come out in 3 years which I guess will jump to 20TF
One thing that I thought of while watching the video is that even if 2060S is "weaker", it's a Turing card with dedicated RT cores, whereas RDNA2 isn't.
It'd be interesting to see what kind of performance differential there is between them in the future because surely using compute to do RT instead of dedicated RT cores should have some effect on the overall performance of the machine.
Doubt it very much this generation. Mostly because of Microsoft. The like 2 or 3 games in an entire generation that manage to impress on consoles (vs PC's, because of course there are more than 2 or 3 games that just look great) are ALWAYS the result of huge budgets from first party studios. It's not magical console optimization. They aren't magically going to grow new rendering cores. And a 3090 would certainly be able to play anything like that made for PC at better graphics settings/performance than a console ever could.
This is 99% budget where they can throw gigantic art departments at the game, where as most third party devs and publishers can't risk those types of budgets, except on the 1 or 2 sure fire sellers in a given generation (and even then they tend to spend those budgets on marketing and not game assets).
But this changes with Microsoft both being willing to support their developers with those budgets and time, AND having PC being part of the focus along side the Xbox. Hell, you can argue that the first next gen game (as in you couldn't play it on a current gen console) already came out, and it's a PC exclusive (Flight Simulator).
I think this gen we're going to see some Microsoft published games that are going to be looking great on an Xbox, and AMAZING on a PC (like most third party games do today).
On top of the usual third party games looking and running better on PC vs consoles (Especially when it comes to RT).
If you're talking about that old quote from him, Carmack wasn't even talking about fixed hardware. He was mostly talking about high level API performance on PC.... back in the DX9 era. Not really relevant.
In shader performance, we don't know. We won't know until these thigns are out. On paper it's probably close to a 2080.... but in real life performance other things come into play. I mean, think about that a 2080 is pulling almost as much power all by itself as an entire XSX. It's got a huge cooler just dedicated to the GPU. It's not sharing bandwidth with a CPU. On the other hand the RDNA2 GPU on the XSX is likely to have a different feature set... Just going by teraflops is not going to be very accurate. We have to wait and see.
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How you do not know? You base your whole 2060s comparison using a couple of screenshots and a few seconds of gameplay, but you can't process any thoughts using 1mn30 of Spiderman running at 60fps?
You made a whole video hyping up and imagining what would be Spiderman running at 60fps, it would have being interesting to compare your predictions with the actual results, don't you think?
Marvel's Spider-Man - The 60fps Dream - Plus What To Expect from PS5 Spider-Man: Miles Morales!
UPDATE: No longer the 'road not taken' - Insomniac has added an optional 60fps performance mode to Miles Morales! https://twitter.com/insomniacgames/status/1...
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One of my favorite DF videos in a while and I watch and enjoy them all. I'm really happy that there is a 60fps mode, but I'd much rather it be 1440p with more room for other settings to be upgraded. I thought Spider-Man PS4 already had great image quality on a 4K tv.
I feel like we should have a clearer picture on XSX after AMD's RDNA2 announcement on the 28th.
I'm not a fan of trying to make the comparison with 2 year old, last-gen Nvidia GPUs.
Now XSS is easier to prospect, as it seems to be a cut down RDNA2 version of the 5500 XT.
Another awesome video from Alex and the DF team.
Over the next couple years, I believe we're going to see many new optimization tricks appear. This is just the beginning.
I must admit I'm surprised we're seeing so much RT reflections at launch, I would have thought any flat reflections (like windows, mirrors) would have less costly methods available. I'm more excited about the improvement in lighting we're going to see with global illumination and traced shadows. Less baked stuff. More dynamic stuff.
Over the next couple years, I believe we're going to see many new optimization tricks appear. This is just the beginning.
I must admit I'm surprised we're seeing so much RT reflections at launch, I would have thought any flat reflections (like windows, mirrors) would have less costly methods available. I'm more excited about the improvement in lighting we're going to see with global illumination and traced shadows. Less baked stuff. More dynamic stuff.
It describes only Reflections within RT, RT can and is used for much more than reflections. It is just this is the easiest to market, describe and show to people. alongside being a good fit into the Post Pipeline element.
The same reason BFV used it very quickly and then spent the following months refining it to make it less demanding.
My thing is...why can't we compare any of the next gen consoles from Sony and MS with the AMD RX6000 line?
Those are actual RDNA 2 cards. That will have different cu amounts.
So we can only expect 1080p30fps on games that push ray-tracing to the point Control did? That's...disappointing.
Just dropping by to give another thumbs up for the video, Alex.
It's clear, concise & informative - easily one of the best on the Digital Foundry channel this year. Nice work!
I don't recommend watching or posting dealer gaming videos on here.
Control is not a particularly well optimised game, ray-tracing or not. I don't think it's a great point of comparison.
My takeaway from this video was very similar to my own experiences with ray-tracing on my RTX 2080S. Neat tech but the performance cost is still huge and the benefits, while tangible, are not immediately noticeable when devs have gotten so good at 'faking' with SSR or cubemaps (limited as they are). I would take higher frames over RT any day of the week. If any PS5 game is offering 30fps RT mode vs 60fps non-RT, I'll be taking the 60fps every day of the week.
RT still has a long way to mature before it is totally viable at high resolutions and frame rates.
Well, speaking of Control, the good thing is that you don't need really high resolutions thanks to DLSS 😉
This is one of my favorite Digital Foundry videos ever so great job. I think my expectations were already in check, but I really gained understanding of the tech I didn't expect. Thank you for the great breakdown!
No, I'm getting at something else.
I don't mind compromises to the quality of reflections to get them working. I do care about a reflections accuracy. The video goes through why the reflections are lower resolution and lower quality as well as missing items, shadows and fine material details. It doesn't go through why the reflections aren't reflecting at the correct angle or at the right intersection.
A couple of examples:
1. Look at Spider-Man on the window again. The zebra-crossing can be seen in the reflection. The reflection continues on a straight trajectory whereas in real-life the refection would have bent when it hits the window to show the correct perspective.
2. Use the same principle from my point above to the reflections of Spider-Man on the cars.
Additionally Spider-Man isn't positionally reflecting correctly on the window either i.e. the feet and hand don't naturally intersect with the window.
So in point 1 above the reflection would continue in a straight line (regardless of viewing angle) and Spider-Man's intersection with the window is 100% accurate, even though Spider-Man's foot and hand are obscuring the reflection?
Yeah...that's one of the point's I'm referring to. It's not right at all.Yeah, I would presume the glass material has a non physically accurate amount of refraction applied to it?
I mean, it will look a bit off, but it doesn't mean what is being done still isn't cool.
I love they are trying but if I'd rather accurate reflections than high-quality reflections.
I think the DF mentioned your positioning comment but had no real explanation for it. This would be some for a dev to give more commentary on granted it gets fixed.
I swear. Does he actually know what he is talking about or is he just regurgitating what DF said and adding his own console slant to it?