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Digital Foundry: Spider-Man PS5 Ray Tracing analysis
- Thread starter Patitoloco
- Start date
The only dueling scars on Era are from the paper cuts people have from shuffling a Yu-Gi-Oh deck.
DLSS is such a masterpiece of a feature. But yeah. That's a neat trick :P Should've worded it "without AI upscaling tricks"
J K who?
You are right, I've been an idiot. I'm sorry for making this assumption, even though there are obviously other ways to obtain a scar on your face. I'm sorry for derailing the thread and for talking about something so personal without knowing the facts. Es tut mir Leid.
great video on multiple levels
- primer on ray tracing
- context for why Spiderman isn't crappy even though those screenshots were nit-picked to death on the internet (because of course they are)
- comparisons on PC games that do ray tracing which is invaluable because hopefully it shows that compromise is needed everywhere for ray tracing. All this talk about DLSS is partly because RT is so heavy
- primer on ray tracing
- context for why Spiderman isn't crappy even though those screenshots were nit-picked to death on the internet (because of course they are)
- comparisons on PC games that do ray tracing which is invaluable because hopefully it shows that compromise is needed everywhere for ray tracing. All this talk about DLSS is partly because RT is so heavy
Brilliant video to demonstrate how computationally expensive RT effects can be. It is still early days for the tech & I am looking forward to seeing the clever tricks that will be implemented by devs to continue to improve quality of the features as the generation goes on.
All the more reason I wish the consoles were designed and scheduled to release next year, especially with how much it looks like most games will in fact just be cross gen from Sony/Microsoft for the first year.
Really sucks how this gen is falling, right on the fault line of a major shift toward ray tracing and AI learning, but because the consoles feature entry level and first gen hardware capable of rendering it, the entire gen is going to be saddled by it unfortunately. Which means most games will be stuck using either old lighting techniques or having to mix in and do both. So it's sort of some of the benefits but all of the drawbacks. Which means based on how expensive AAA creation is, we are unlikely to see any ground up RT designed games for another 5-8 years. And that's sort of depressing.
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Great video dude. Both systems are apparently handling way more than I expected out of the gate. Still years away from full solutions on reasonably priced hardware.
Yea.We will see in next gen racing games like foza and GT or cross gen games but not in graphically demanding open world next gen games.
I this we may see hybrid applications to improve reflections in certain ways which I think is a good compromise.
I'm hoping there will be more PS5 games with performance modes l honestly don't care for these 1st gen (AMD HW) raytracing effects.
Excellent video from Alex. I hope this will stop people's unreasonable expectations from RT on a $500 box
That post is in contention for worst Era take of all time honestly.
I doubt an Era parody account could even come up with such an insane, spaced out comment.
Couldn't watch the video, do we know how Ps5 and XBX compare in terms of bandwidth and RT? Beyond the TFs.
I completely expected 30fps was the general fps target for RT effects. I'm just happy to have them, honestly. Also graphics options in console games is exciting.
I think 60 may still be in the table at a lower resolution, but mainly for more linear games. I wouldn't rule anything out though.
OP
OP
I knew I had to be worried when I saw this get to page 3. I leave for an hour and even this thread becomes a shitshow huh?
Is it really impossible to have a conversation in the Gaming side without controversy, meta or not? Specially given it's people openly going against a fellow user. Holy shit.
Is it really impossible to have a conversation in the Gaming side without controversy, meta or not? Specially given it's people openly going against a fellow user. Holy shit.
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Interesting that this remaster is claiming dynamic 4k. Surprised this was necessary.
No we don't at this point, we will have to wait till next month when reviewers get their hands on some multi platform games to get a better idea
Seeing this kind of stuff just added to a remaster for launch and having it look that good makes me very excited to see what we get after a few years. I'll be pretty excited to replay the game itself because I never did the dlc so I might as well complete the rest of it now.
I know my opinion doesn't mean much but others besides me have mentioned this holding for the first 3 gens of rt gpus due devs and slow implementation.
We should be happy AMD is not behind and is about turing level not worse which is where were a lot months thought rdna2 would end up. Seeing some of sony's devs do this in very little time bolds well for the gen. We will have to use mixed designs for RT because it will hit performance for sometime, but the difference from before is it's no longer prohibitive. You couldn't try this in any other gen even if you wanted too certainly not at 1080p+.
I will take any title with this over old shit lighting with no pbr or correction for GI/RT based lighting.
What would be more depressing to me is if it was nvidia just pushing this forward. Gotta start somewhere with devs being familiar before they can let loose and run with it. nvidia just pushing this forward. Gotta start somewhere with devs being familiar before they can let loose and run with it.
I guess the one good take away is the Series S shouldn't be too hampered if RT isn't that good on the PS5 and X.
Watched the video and the explanation was very clear and concise, great job Alex. Hopefully people will come to understand these new consoles are not magic boxes with unlimited power, although I've already seen threads in resetera talking about how great they'll be now that the games won't be compromised in any way, which is completely delusional.
And regarding this:
Disappointed, but not surprised to read someone jumping to such an absurd conclusion in this forum.
And regarding this:
Disappointed, but not surprised to read someone jumping to such an absurd conclusion in this forum.
That's a tough game to play though. When will AMD have their tech up to snuff for raytracing and AI? This is their first swing at raytracing on their chips, and as far as we know, they don't have anything for AI upscaling publicly available. Even Nvidia, who has a real head start on things, I only a month ago announced cards that seem to finally be delivering on this tech in a substantial way (And at a premium of price).
Even if the consoles had been designed around releasing next holiday season, we would still be straddling a line. Existing consoles are long in the tooth, and need an upgrade, but to get the promise of these features, I think it's likely they would need to be delayed another year on top, and 2022 is a long way away. The best bet for seeing these features in a more uncompromised form is to wait for half-step consoles (Or build a PC), but my then, who knows what new and exciting features will be on the horizon? At some point, consoles just have to put a stake in the ground and say, "This is our target, and we'll do what we can from there."
In that it is some percentage more powerful and that power should be used somewhere, sure, it may be some amount better. But if you think these same compromises and techniques won't be employed to nearly the same degree on Xbox, you're going to be sadly mistaken. It's as likely that power ends up used on something wholly different though.
Yeah as a software solution vs hardware acceleration is going to be interesting
Great content. Love these deep dives that are easy to understand.
Pretty cool what they're pulling off for a launch title. I'm sure they'll easily fool me once things are in motion. Can't wait to see what they'll be able to do once the teams had some more time with the kits.
Pretty cool what they're pulling off for a launch title. I'm sure they'll easily fool me once things are in motion. Can't wait to see what they'll be able to do once the teams had some more time with the kits.
Can they use hardware to accelerate Lumen magic?
The RT hardware/core I mean
unsure it depends on their goals with it but Them working closely with Sony could def mean maybe ? lol
Actually, there's no "tensor core" on RDNA 2 for ML. ML is "accelerated" by having the shader pipeline supporting int 8 & 4 bits, basically math crunchers, but at the sacrifice that you can't concurrently use the FP32/16 for rasterization at the same time. Digital Foundry/Eurogamer has deep dived into this a couple of times now, hot chip 2020 article details this iirc.
But even Turing/Ampere do not use tensor cores for denoising, yet. Only non real-time ray tracing on blender like softwares use the RT cores.
I bet Nvidia are working hard on making it happen in real-time though, maybe Ampere's new tensor core with FP16, tensorfloat 32 and sparsity acceleration will finally do the job?
Since we are keeping expectations in check....
I never thought it was possible that level of Raytracing coming at day one on next gen. Seriously... it took over an year to see 5 titles like BF5 tanking performance on RTX Cards.
This and Gran Turismo feels like a dream. I thought that every game using Raytracing at the beginning was something like DMC5SE (which looks terrible by the way).
But as far as technology grows and evolve, I still think its possible to achieve better resolutions and higher framerates.
When I mean by that.... I Seriously think its possible to achieve something around 1440p native, with native 1440p Raytracing resolution and 60fps.
Gran Turismo is target 4K with quarter resolution Raytracing but preserving the 60fps while using some sort of reconstruction technique in the image provided by the rays. And reconstruction seems to be the best and most affordable way or improving image quality while not tanking performance by brute forcing more pixels.... a much more intelligent way of giving players the best image possible.
I never thought it was possible that level of Raytracing coming at day one on next gen. Seriously... it took over an year to see 5 titles like BF5 tanking performance on RTX Cards.
This and Gran Turismo feels like a dream. I thought that every game using Raytracing at the beginning was something like DMC5SE (which looks terrible by the way).
But as far as technology grows and evolve, I still think its possible to achieve better resolutions and higher framerates.
When I mean by that.... I Seriously think its possible to achieve something around 1440p native, with native 1440p Raytracing resolution and 60fps.
Gran Turismo is target 4K with quarter resolution Raytracing but preserving the 60fps while using some sort of reconstruction technique in the image provided by the rays. And reconstruction seems to be the best and most affordable way or improving image quality while not tanking performance by brute forcing more pixels.... a much more intelligent way of giving players the best image possible.
This is a very new technology for consoles - in some ways it reminds me of the early shader implementations in NV2A (OG Xbox) vs the 2nd generation in Xenos etc. - i.e. the most advanced uses came a little later in the generation, and truly impressive implementations came in the next generation once it became clearer what the biggest improvements needed were that couldn't just be worked around via optimization and approximation.
I look forward to seeing what is possible with new techniques that are built from the ground up, since there are quite a few different unique engines that various Sony studios use. I hope we don't end up with a "samish" look due to overuse of UE5.
I do wonder if we will see a PS5 Pro mid-gen that really scales up RT perf. or if that will have to wait for PS6. I can see more divergence between Xbox and PS5 depending on how they decide to focus transistor budget going forward too.
I look forward to seeing what is possible with new techniques that are built from the ground up, since there are quite a few different unique engines that various Sony studios use. I hope we don't end up with a "samish" look due to overuse of UE5.
I do wonder if we will see a PS5 Pro mid-gen that really scales up RT perf. or if that will have to wait for PS6. I can see more divergence between Xbox and PS5 depending on how they decide to focus transistor budget going forward too.
Honestly, while I totally expect compromises in some form due to ray-tracing, I have to say that I'm gonna hold off on purchasing a TV capable of 120 Hz until I can get a read on how many games will bother to support it without massive compromises.
Another informative video from the fine folk at DF.
You want a console game that's really struggling with RT reflections, look at DMCV. Then again it is attempting RT at 60fps.
I mean, there is a difference between "struggling" and "practical application of scalable technology".