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Digital Foundry: Senua's Saga: Hellblade 2 Xbox Series X Trailer Analysis: Our First Taste of Next-Gen Power?

boris_feinbrand

boris_feinbrand

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,609
Real time in engine just means that the footage was created in real time in engine. It doesn't mean that the quality we see here will be matched during gameplay.
And I believe that easily. If you look at the real time cutscenes in Senuas sacrifice this isn't that far out..
The detail on floors and terrain is doable with photogrammetry and if the game follows the first in structure it will be a more linear affair anyway so it's really not that far out. People need to realize the power that photogrammetry brings to even smaller studios. Physically correct and insanely detailed assets can be implemented with less hassle.
Again, gameplay probably won't reach this quality, but real time cutscenes? Yeah I believe that.
 
canseesea

canseesea

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,044
People shouldn't need a reminder that there has never been a first showing of a new console that looked the same when the console was actually available to play. But they seem to, so just remember: Never.

I'm sure Hellblade 2 will look incredible. But not like that trailer. Never.
 
Lukemia SL

Lukemia SL

Member
Jan 30, 2018
9,391

I haven't seen the video or a thread on it yet but I would love to know what NX has to say about the game.
 
Terror-Billy

Terror-Billy

Chicken Chaser
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,460
nelsonroyale said:
yeah, seems like it is potentially pre rendered using assets and tech that is at least mostly going to be in the game. Its probably a target render, which definitely means it should be taken with a grain of salt, but also offers a glimpse of what we can generally expect from the AAA devs.
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Yup, exactly that. As I said, it looks stunning, but it doesn't look like something impossible. Also, plenty of games have exceeded their target renders in the end (Killzone 2 comes to mind)
 
Black_Stride

Black_Stride

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
7,394
Firefly said:
Regarding LOD transition, isn't that one of the benefits SSD is supposed to bring?
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The GPU would still have to render the stuff even if it was all loaded into RAM already.

But yes a really fast SSD would let you load large amounts of geometry quickly into a scene......but the part actually displaying and applying tesselation to the items you have loaded in.....is actually the GPU.

Even when you ini edit UE4 into rendering ridiculous draw distances at full LOD your GPU suffers.
Thats the part people are doubting......but who knows Ive just got a GTX1070 I have no idea how far I could actually push realtime draw distances on a GPU at the supposed Series X specs.

Especially when you account for optimizations.
 
SharpX68K

SharpX68K

Member
Nov 10, 2017
10,577
Chicagoland
original XBOX demo - Raven: Two To Tango

sIPOUEQ.jpg


pre-rendered CG vs real-time
 

ImaLawy3r

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Jun 6, 2019
619
We need to remember this video that DF put up when this thing launches or there are more hands on. If this is proven to actually be working on XSX in game engine, than we have some contemplating to do on DF's finds here on out.
 
Akela

Akela

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,851
Peltz said:
Link to the article. OP, you should add it for those of us who prefer the written stuff:

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2019-senuas-saga-hellblade-2-trailer-analysis

The article raises a good point... and a question I was hoping someone could answer. Does any video game run at a target framerate of 24fps? Would 24fps locked still feel smooth compared to 30 or would it introduce tearing of some kind?

I ask because a lot of film is shot in 24fps and presents no issue. Are games different? If so, why?
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Ocarina of Time only runs at a locked 20fps (17fps in PAL regions (!)). I wouldn't say it feels particularity great but you do get used to it after a while, especially when the game in question doesn't really require fast reaction times. But I don't think modern audiences would really accept that level of performance.

The issue with targeting frame rates other then 60 or 30fps is that you're always going to get some amount of stutter from duplicated frames, since the displays themselves can only run at those frame rates (usually). Films get around that by interpolating between multiple frames, in fact most of the frames you see on a film played back digitally are actually interpolated based on predicted motion due to how video compression works. You can't really do that if the frames are being rendered on the fly though - you can't interpolate between frames that don't exist yet.
 
XboxCowdry

XboxCowdry

alt account
Banned
Sep 1, 2019
319
Alex is right I remember how Heavenly Sword was cut back for the final game never mind if a developer even uses In Graphics it can be alerted like with The Last Guardian PS3. Still with Microsoft trying to build goodwill to their console and the talent at Ninja Theory. Hopefully this is all real and how good the real-time cut senses will look at least
 
Tyaren

Tyaren

Character Artist
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
24,959
RogerL said:
But final results are not THAT far away...
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Huh? The Anthem downgrade was one of the most obvious/biggest ever. And that's coming from me, someone who finds downgrade threads and their drama most of the time unfounded and ridiculous. If there was ever a real downgrade, it was the Anthem reveal to the actual retail game though.

Anthem-E3-2017-vs-version-final.jpg


anthem-E3-vs-Retail.jpg
 
Rosol

Rosol

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,397
If you consider "the dark sorcerer" demo by quantic dream was done in real-time on a PS4, yet it's still above mostly what ended up being achievable on ps4 - you can say the same here; that it's unlikely actual game-play will match the quality shown. Doing a demo 'in-engine' is different from having to add in all the elements of the game and still have it run with that much detail. With that being said, the first hellblade was quite good looking, so it's not surprising that they can make a showcase game for next-gen; and it will be hardly surprising if they come close.
 
WhtR88t

WhtR88t

Member
May 14, 2018
4,648
DukeBlueBall said:
Downfall was going to get panned for it's graphics even if Hellblade wasn't shown.

The trailer wasn't impressive by current gen standards outside of 4k60fps.

Gearbox isn't a graphic powerhouse studio, so it speaks nothing about PS5 / other games on PS5.
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Except there is ray tracing evidence in Godfall's gameplay clip floating around.

Black_Stride said:
This game is NOT actually going to run at 24fps.....are you slow?
And its just letterboxing....we still call letterboxed 4K.....err 4K
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Running in this "letterboxed" mode allows them to render at a much lower resolution than native 4K.

Less pixels to render = more power available for graphical fidelity. Same technique used for The Order 1886 this gen.
 
Inuhanyou

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
ImaLawy3r said:
We need to remember this video that DF put up when this thing launches or there are more hands on. If this is proven to actually be working on XSX in game engine, than we have some contemplating to do on DF's finds here on out.
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Ppl be wiling out here to defend a trailer for a game years out. Df know their shit and were the ones ms went to to break the xbox x reveal. You dont have to ovvereach when they have proved themselves for years.
 

ImaLawy3r

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Jun 6, 2019
619
Inuhanyou said:
Ppl be wiling out here to defend a trailer for a game years out. Df know their shit and were the ones ms went to to break the xbox x reveal. You dont have to ovvereach when they have proved themselves for years.
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I'm 90 percent sure that DF is right on the money. It's just the Phil Spencer interview where he said that it was running in game that has me questioning things.
 
Stixitnu

Stixitnu

Self-requested ban
Banned
Apr 9, 2018
1,079
DukeBlueBall said:
Downfall was going to get panned for it's graphics even if Hellblade wasn't shown.

The trailer wasn't impressive by current gen standards outside of 4k60fps.

Gearbox isn't a graphic powerhouse studio, so it speaks nothing about PS5 / other games on PS5.
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Well Gearbox isn't developing it so...
 
Ukumio

Ukumio

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
1,415
Australia
With all the discourse about whether it is in real-time I remembered it being confirmed by the Lead Sound Designer over at Ninja Theory that it was real-time, but it appears he has edited his post to remove the mention of real-time (which was originally there). So now I don't actually know.

 
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Tomeru

Tomeru

Member
May 7, 2018
673
That was running at 24p no? What does it matter how it looks if its running that low or if the xbox can run it that way - if its only 24p?

On that note, it looks fuckin' amazing.
 
pixelation

pixelation

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
3,548
Same as I thought, the prudent thing is to wait for actual gameplay for any and all next gen games... like actual gameplay.
 
ILikeFeet

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
gnarlyxcharlie said:
Why do devs do this? I'm sure the game looks amazing regardless but why produce something it won't live up to?
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because there hasn't really been a downside to doing it. there's be "downgradeton" backlash, but I don't think there's ever really been a lasting effect. and this way, publishers don't have to spend money on a high end CGI sequence unless they really need/want to
 
Dewin

Dewin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
627
Dictator said:
Me advising caution since we need more Info = don't trust df.

How does that make sense?
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So when pointing out non-ingame engine trailers, which the industry has been doing like.... forever...a gazilion times... we take two last gen Sony exclusives to make that point?

ok. Thats not wierd at all.
 
Dictator

Dictator

Digital Foundry
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Oct 26, 2017
4,948
Berlin, 'SCHLAND
Dewin said:
So when pointing out non-ingame engine trailers, which the industry has been doing like.... forever...a gazilion times... we take two last gen Sony exclusives to make that point?

ok. Thats not wierd at all.
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They were really Controversial and Stuck out in my mind - so Yeah.

If you are trying to find some angle about how I hate Microsoft or hate Sony or whatever you will not find it.
 
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