Digital Foundry: Red Dead Redemption 2 HDR Fix Tested! Plus Graphics 'Downgrade' Analysis

[LAA]

I hate messing with the HDR in-game settings.
Have a Dell UP2718Q, (true 10bit HDR, 1000nits brightness), but tuning the settings according to the R* logos I think makes it look pretty washed out colour wise.
Instead I've been setting it to like 3000ish peak brightness and 300ish paper white, trying to just judge the image on the right and/or in-game

 

[Khasim]

I hate messing with the HDR in-game settings.
Have a Dell UP2718Q, (true 10bit HDR, 1000nits brightness), but tuning the settings according to the R* logos I think makes it look pretty washed out colour wise.
Instead I've been setting it to like 3000ish peak brightness and 300ish paper white, trying to just judge the image on the right and/or in-game

Click to shrink...

I don't think you can do anything about the colors, the saturation just gets automatically reduced when you switch to HDR. Either because of lazy tone mapping or because they reduced it intentionally, hard to say.

All this mode really did was change the HDR in this game from 'awful' to 'meh'. I started a new playthrough yesterday and messed around in the open world on my completed save game, and the only time where the HDR actually looks good is during strong daylight with lots of mud and/or rain, in all other situations I prefer the SDR look, the contrast is still better despite the maximum brightness being lower.

 

[greekappi]

I watch DF pretty regularly, this is my first time seeing HDR show up in the YT quality options

Click to shrink...

What machine are you seeing these options on? I have my gaming PC hooked up to my HDR TV but can't see it. Should I be using a specific browser?

 

[jediyoshi]

What machine are you seeing these options on? I have my gaming PC hooked up to my HDR TV but can't see it. Should I be using a specific browser?

Click to shrink...

Looks like it's browser related. Just tested on Edge Chromium and gave me this instead

Original pic was using Firefox.

 

[AmbientRuin]

Looks like it's browser related. Just tested on Edge Chromium and gave me this instead

Original pic was using Firefox.

Click to shrink...

How did you get HDR to work in Firefox? Ive only ever had it working in chrome

 

[EvilBoris]

What machine are you seeing these options on? I have my gaming PC hooked up to my HDR TV but can't see it. Should I be using a specific browser?

Click to shrink...

Chrome should show it to you when HDR is enabled in Windows.
It's only fairly recently that the videos have been in HDR, it's quite difficult to work with as the file size bloats, upload time bloats, processing time drags out and then you have to contend with how the image looks in SDR when YouTube does it's conversion (it's why the SDR bits in the video are oversaturated, as they've gone through multiple conversions by the time they hit your display)

 

[jediyoshi]

How did you get HDR to work in Firefox? Ive only ever had it working in chrome

Click to shrink...

Sorry should've been more specific, I'm on Firefox Dev Edition. Although I just tested on Chrome and HDR isn't an option for me either right now

 

[Qudi]

So SDR is still the best mode. This just annoying. Maybe if they fix it i will do another playtrough.

 

[lemmykoopah]

So SDR is still the best mode. This just annoying. Maybe if they fix it i will do another playtrough.

Click to shrink...

No it's not? Watch the video dude.

 

[Deleted member 49319]

SDR color in this video doesn't look right, way too saturated.

 

[BubbaMc]

On an C8 here, I still like SDR much better. The colors are way too washed out in HDR. They should test it on an OLED!

Click to shrink...

Sounds like you may be using cinematic mode. Change it to game mode and report back :)

 

[Smokey]

So SDR is still the best mode. This just annoying. Maybe if they fix it i will do another playtrough.

Click to shrink...

I don't see how. I watched this in HDR via USB from DF site...the SDR version looked equivalent to Vivid/Torch settings that come on TVs.

 

[zzzyz36]

Sounds like it still sucks, not enough reason for a second play through.

 

[Qudi]

No it's not? Watch the video dude.

Click to shrink...

I don't see how. I watched this in HDR via USB from DF site...the SDR version looked equivalent to Vivid/Torch settings that come on TVs.

Click to shrink...

Colours and saturation are still better in the SDR mode.

 

[Cronus]

I don't see how. I watched this in HDR via USB from DF site...the SDR version looked equivalent to Vivid/Torch settings that come on TVs.

Click to shrink...

It's something wrong with the video. The SDR part is over-saturated. It's not supposed to look like that at all. SDR is still better.

 

[Nintendo]

They should just add an option to adjust colour saturation.

Click to shrink...

It's funny because older Rockstar games had a saturation slider.

 

[Pokemaniac]

Sorry should've been more specific, I'm on Firefox Dev Edition. Although I just tested on Chrome and HDR isn't an option for me either right now

Click to shrink...

I think I saw something that may have been HDR related in the Firefox 68 Beta release notes. Interesting that you don't see it in Chrome though. Maybe Firefox automatically converts to SDR if HDR output is not available?

 

[Traxus]

In the new HDR mode what settings for peak brightness / paper white are you all using for a KS8000? Just playing this for the first time and I tried 1000 / 100 and the picture just seems kind of washed out.

 

[TJ_Electronica]

Tried it out last night and thought

In the new HDR mode what settings for peak brightness / paper white are you all using for a KS8000? Just playing this for the first time and I tried 1000 / 100 and the picture just seems kind of washed out.

Click to shrink...

I couldn't find a good balance and just ended up turning HDR off again. I hate the way everything looks so dark with HDR turned on.

 

[EvilBoris]

My theory for this is that it is quite common for a filmic tonemapper to desaturate as you approach black.
Now if this component of the tonemapper has been designed with 0 as back and 1 as peak white in HDR, with 0.5 being mid grey, then a direct move to HDR would place 0.5 as 100nits, which would mean that a big chunk of what you see is already desaturated.

By increasing the paper white, you push image away from the desaturation in engine, then using either a gamma adjustment or brightness adjust pulll the luminance down again at a part of the image which is now greyer.

 

[Sparks]

I have the X and Pro versions.

The X version is far and away the best looking game I've ever seen in my life.

Click to shrink...

It's so fucking good, that I am honestly confused more people aren't talking about how good this game looks. The shit they are able to achieve and at the scale they achieved it at, is unfathomable and I am in constant bewilderment. They have a linear-story hand made density, but at scales that are above most open world titles.

And at native 4k on X.

 

[Traxus]

Tried it out last night and thought

I couldn't find a good balance and just ended up turning HDR off again. I hate the way everything looks so dark with HDR turned on.

Click to shrink...

I held off playing until there was an HDR patch but it sounds like the game still wasn't designed with HDR in mind so some of the systems in place don't utilize it well. Something about tone mapping? All I know is most of the snow scenes at the beginning looked kind of shitty with the new HDR mode on compared to SDR.

My theory for this is that it is quite common for a filmic tonemapper to desaturate as you approach black.
Now if this component of the tonemapper has been designed with 0 as back and 1 as peak white in HDR, with 0.5 being mid grey, then a direct move to HDR would place 0.5 as 100nits, which would mean that a big chunk of what you see is already desaturated.

By increasing the paper white, you push image away from the desaturation in engine, then using either a gamma adjustment or brightness adjust pulll the luminance down again at a part of the image which is now greyer.

Click to shrink...

Thank you! I'll have to try this when I get home.

 

[Nintendo]

My theory for this is that it is quite common for a filmic tonemapper to desaturate as you approach black.
Now if this component of the tonemapper has been designed with 0 as back and 1 as peak white in HDR, with 0.5 being mid grey, then a direct move to HDR would place 0.5 as 100nits, which would mean that a big chunk of what you see is already desaturated.

By increasing the paper white, you push image away from the desaturation in engine, then using either a gamma adjustment or brightness adjust pulll the luminance down again at a part of the image which is now greyer.

Click to shrink...

This is interesting. I don't mind the saturation but I don't like the raised black levels. I hope this fixes it.

 

[Traxus]

I've spent more time fiddling with these HDR settings than playing the game so far. I think it's impossible to find a setting that allows for vibrant daytime scenes without raising black levels. So frustrating.

Without changing TV settings on my KS8000...
backlight 20
brightness 45
smart led high
dynamic contrast off

The white Rockstar logo disappears with Peak Brightness at 1000 and the dark rockstar logo never disappears at the lowest Paper White setting of 80. With those settings, daytime scenes look absurdly dark and faded.

edit:
After a bit more fiddling I think I finally settled on...
Peak Brightness 1600
Paper White 180

 

[Traxus]

Okay dude...forget all that shit I said. This game looks amazing.

 

[TJ_Electronica]

Okay dude...forget all that shit I said. This game looks amazing.

Click to shrink...

Do the settings you posted get rid of the color desaturation? I've just left it in SDR because of how desaturated the picture looks in HDR.

 

[Ocean Bones]

Do the settings you posted get rid of the color desaturation? I've just left it in SDR because of how desaturated the picture looks in HDR.

Click to shrink...

All you can do there is up the color on your TV a bit and deal with the trade off.

 

[SamWilson]

I've got the game on the X and Pro (thanks to a giveaway online I got a copy after owning it on my X first) and honestly both versions look so damn good and it's still the best looking game I've seen, even on the Pro.

Upscaled or true 4K doesn't make a difference to me since I can't tell the difference.

I only wish, even with this new HDR patch, that it wasn't so desaturated.

 

[Traxus]

Do the settings you posted get rid of the color desaturation? I've just left it in SDR because of how desaturated the picture looks in HDR.

Click to shrink...

It's a good balance and looks plenty saturated to my eye. Follow EvilBoris' instructions above with Paper White set to 500 for a more saturated HDR though. It works well but I can't be bothered to alter my TV brightness for just one game.

 

[WiZaRdOuS]

It's so fucking good, that I am honestly confused more people aren't talking about how good this game looks. The shit they are able to achieve and at the scale they achieved it at, is unfathomable and I am in constant bewilderment. They have a linear-story hand made density, but at scales that are above most open world titles.

And at native 4k on X.

Click to shrink...

Everyday i contemplate buying a One x JUST for this game lol

 

[Persagen]

It's so fucking good, that I am honestly confused more people aren't talking about how good this game looks. The shit they are able to achieve and at the scale they achieved it at, is unfathomable and I am in constant bewilderment. They have a linear-story hand made density, but at scales that are above most open world titles.

And at native 4k on X.

Click to shrink...

I just booted this up for the first time in months, and I'm floored all over again. It really is an achievement.

I know some of this is the result of the kind of time and money very few companies can devote to development, but all the time and money in the world can't force hardware to do something it simply is not capable of. I know there are always tricks and workarounds to be discovered, but at some point there is a ceiling.

That the One X can handle a game of this size and complexity at a respectable framerate at 4K still blows my mind.

 

[greekappi]

Is anyone gaming on a Sony x900F? That's what I have and I'm still fiddling with things to make sure I get the best HDR image. Does anyone have a recommendation for this TV?

 

[Aurongel]

The upped saturation looks super unrealistic on my LG OLED C8. I much prefer the naturalistic tones of the previous HDR mode versus the colorful cartoony look of the SDR/game modes.

Regardless, it's great that they've finally patched the HDR implementation. I just wish they could also do something about the blurry resolution/upscaling present on PS4 Pro.

 

[TJ_Electronica]

Is anyone gaming on a Sony x900F? That's what I have and I'm still fiddling with things to make sure I get the best HDR image. Does anyone have a recommendation for this TV?

Click to shrink...

Not the same but I have the X900E and I couldn't find a good picture with HDR and ended up just putting it back on SDR.

 

[greekappi]

Not the same but I have the X900E and I couldn't find a good picture with HDR and ended up just putting it back on SDR.

Click to shrink...

That's a bummer. I've noticed that I like the look of HDR Game way better than Cinematic, I'm just not sure how high to go with the first option, peak brightness. Is there a problem with going too high? Will things be blown out? The Rockstar logo disappears at 1000 but everyone seems to be going much higher. As for the paper white, the black Rockstar logo only disappears at the lowest setting, but things look too dark there. What do people usually set that at? What does it actually do?

 

[Deleted member 21709]

Rockstar's HDR implementation is so disappointing.

It's so fucking good, that I am honestly confused more people aren't talking about how good this game looks. The shit they are able to achieve and at the scale they achieved it at, is unfathomable and I am in constant bewilderment. They have a linear-story hand made density, but at scales that are above most open world titles.

And at native 4k on X.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, the game is mind boggling.

 

[EvilBoris]

That's a bummer. I've noticed that I like the look of HDR Game way better than Cinematic, I'm just not sure how high to go with the first option, peak brightness. Is there a problem with going too high? Will things be blown out? The Rockstar logo disappears at 1000 but everyone seems to be going much higher. As for the paper white, the black Rockstar logo only disappears at the lowest setting, but things look too dark there. What do people usually set that at? What does it actually do?

Click to shrink...

If you are reaching 1000, then you can easily go to 1500 or so without any ill effect.

Paper white is meant to be a brightness control for if the image is too dark to see

 

[Fredrik]

Nice! Now they should just release an expansion as well so I have a reason to return to the game, Sadie's pre-/post-Dutch story or something like that.

 

[Detective]

I decided to check the new update out on X. I noticed a ground texture downgrade while camping. Pretty sure it wasn't like that before.

 

[greekappi]

If you are reaching 1000, then you can easily go to 1500 or so without any ill effect.

Paper white is meant to be a brightness control for if the image is too dark to see

Click to shrink...

Excellent! So by reaching 1000, do you mean being able to go to 1000 while still seeing the R* logo?

 

[EvilBoris]

Excellent! So by reaching 1000, do you mean being able to go to 1000 while still seeing the R* logo?

Click to shrink...

Yeah, because it should only be adjusting how much of the image you clip at the bright end you can go higher if you need to and not lose anything (because you Tv will still do it's own thing on top of that)

Some TVs do a hard clip, others do a smaller more gradual roll off . Games typically do the latter.

 

[Genetrik]

So after a year I finally restarted the entire campaign and playing on a Sony 75Z9D.

looks like I am not the only one who likes their colors to pop more which still does not happen in HDR for me based on my adjusted TV settings that I did long time ago. It's funny because this TV gets fucking bright and in SDR my brightness setting is 50 and in HDR it is max and the HDR picture looks way more dark and washed out than in SDR. Really weird but I guess a combo of the weird game HDR and my TV settings.

I will for sure stick with SDR as the last thing I wanna do is to fiddle around with my TV picture settings ever again.

EDIT:just watched a bit of the video and there are 2 HDR modes???!!! Holy shit need to try the one right away.

 

[Jtrizzy]

Hopefully they fix this shit on the PC release.

 

[Genetrik]

Hmm SDR is still brighter with my tv settings...

maybe I should adjust them... I was always very happy with it but the only downside with those settings was always that the sun looked like a ball without any shine around it... an HDR expert can probably confirm that this should not be the case with great settings?

 

[inner-G]

Hopefully they fix this shit on the PC release.

Click to shrink...

I don't think HDR will ever be fixed on PC in general

 

[ghostcrew]

Hmm SDR is still brighter with my tv settings...

maybe I should adjust them... I was always very happy with it but the only downside with those settings was always that the sun looked like a ball without any shine around it... an HDR expert can probably confirm that this should not be the case with great settings?

Click to shrink...

The video explains this. SDR is still more saturated than the new 'fixed' HDR mode. Seems like it's an intentional choice at this point. The new HDR mode doesn't utilise the top or bottom 10% (i think?) of peak brightness and darkness. And it's still a little desaturated compared to the SDR image.

If you want your colours to pop then best sticking with SDR in this one. I think the fixed HDR looks fantastic though. Campfires and lightning and stuff looks really great. And I'm fine with the general saturation look. It's a big step up from the original fake HDR mode...

 

[Genetrik]

The video explains this. SDR is still more saturated than the new 'fixed' HDR mode. Seems like it's an intentional choice at this point. The new HDR mode doesn't utilise the top or bottom 10% (i think?) of peak brightness and darkness. And it's still a little desaturated compared to the SDR image.

If you want your colours to pop then best sticking with SDR in this one. I think the fixed HDR looks fantastic though. Campfires and lightning and stuff looks really great. And I'm fine with the general saturation look. It's a big step up from the original fake HDR mode...

Click to shrink...

Thanks for the info. Will watch the entire video tomorrow.

out of curiosity: how did you approach HDR with your setup? Now that more and more games allow us to customize HDR within the game, is it still advisable to manually tweak picture settings on our TVs?

 

[ghostcrew]

Thanks for the info. Will watch the entire video tomorrow.

out of curiosity: how did you approach HDR with your setup? Now that more and more games allow us to customize HDR within the game, is it still advisable to manually tweak picture settings on our TVs?

Click to shrink...

I don't tweak my TV settings on a game by game basis. I calibrated my TV when I first got it and I just tinker with in-game settings per game now.

 

[Genetrik]

I don't tweak my TV settings on a game by game basis. I calibrated my TV when I first got it and I just tinker with in-game settings per game now.

Click to shrink...

Yeah that would be the last thing I would want to do as well.
I continued now playing and after nighttime hit in Valentine I switched back and forth game mode HDR and SDR and in this case HDR was the true winner thanks to deeper blacks and a more realistic atmosphere.

I will now stick with it and play the game with HDR on.

 

[greekappi]

Maybe someone can help me out here. Looking to dive into RDR2 after having it since launch. I have a Sony X900F and I was wondering what I should set the HDR settings to? I'm talking about the in game settings. I'll do Game Mode for sure rather than Cinematic but how do I know what to set the paper white and peak brightness stuff to. What does that stuff even mean? What can my TV actually handle? Cranking it all the way up will result in it not doing anything past a certain point if my TV can't go that hot with the peak brightness, or something? Does anyone have recommended settings for those in game sliders for the X900F?