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Digital Foundry: Ray Tracing in Games: How Today's Big Tech Gamble Became Tomorrow's Sure Thing [Sponsored]
- Thread starter chandoog
- Start date
I thought AMD has its own reconstruction tech?
You can fake by hand better results than computer does when it executes calculations within actual laws of physics? What?
The thing I don't understand is why there's much complaining about the performance hit for ray tracing when going from 1080p to 4K is far more taxing and the visual benefit is much worse than something like the RT we've seen in Control/Exodus. On console developers fall over themselves sacrificing frame rate, detail and effects to get as close to 4k as possible on the X/Pro and I don't see anywhere near as much whining about that.
Some just expect 4k60 or higher performance no matter what, some are already eyeing 8k as "future" even when it's more the same old. Boring resolution pumping.
Not yet, but I bet they are working on something.
Their image shaprening, which you may be thinking of (RIS), is just image sharpening and not reconstruciton. For some reason, due to media coverage or something, people lumped it in with DLSS which I never understood.
Ah, I see how that could be read differently than I intended.
You can get better baked-lighting results than Metro has when you disable Ray Tracing. Many games do.
And technically, you could bake in better static environmental lighting than the real-time ray tracing is capable of, but that's not what I meant.
I guess the thing there is that metro has a dynamic TOD so you cannot do much for baking beyond... PRT really. Or at worse something like Ass Creed Unity and not have a real dynamic TOD.
One thing the baked lighting cannot do really well that RTGI in metro does really well is indirect specular. The diffuse will look great, but the specular results from it will all be wrong/non existant or actually just be cubemaps.
Tesla (G80/G9x/GT2xx) was the last (and first?) time when NV's rated TFlops were unreachable on practice. They've never "inflated" TFlops or anything really since then.
I've been digging back into Metro Exodus and man that GI is still killer. I thought it would be fun to no clip out of the normal game area and see how raytracing behaves in areas that the player doesn't have access to and normally can't see up close. It shows well how powerful raytracing already is when it just simply replaces basic lighting.
Bonus pic of a normal game area because I don't wanna post just janky looking low-poly stuff
What I haven't found yet was an option to change the time of day or whatever. I think a time-lapse would be showing how dynamic all this lighting is really well.
Bonus pic of a normal game area because I don't wanna post just janky looking low-poly stuff
What I haven't found yet was an option to change the time of day or whatever. I think a time-lapse would be showing how dynamic all this lighting is really well.
ray traced ambient occlusion is a powerful thingI've been digging back into Metro Exodus and man that GI is still killer. I thought it would be fun to no clip out of the normal game area and see how raytracing behaves in areas that the player doesn't have access to and normally can't see up close. It shows well how powerful raytracing already is when it just simply replaces basic lighting.
Bonus pic of a normal game area because I don't wanna post just janky looking low-poly stuff
What I haven't found yet was an option to change the time of day or whatever. I think a time-lapse would be showing how dynamic all this lighting is really well.
Which one of these is the raytraced version? The version were the snow is much darker and shows more detail looks infinitely better.
Yikes... this thread is nuts.
I'm looking forward to our ray tracing future. Imagine how good ND's first ray-traced PS5 title will look...
I'm looking forward to our ray tracing future. Imagine how good ND's first ray-traced PS5 title will look...
The brighter one. Because snow is actually really bright. And there's much more shadows in places whereas the darker one doesn't have
Most RTX enabled games have DLSS as option, so the performance hit is way less. And it has been improved since the early blurry mess that was at the beginning.
The one that looks actually similar to real life (lightning wise), light and shadows behaving as they should.
Love this - which chest engine you using?I've been digging back into Metro Exodus and man that GI is still killer. I thought it would be fun to no clip out of the normal game area and see how raytracing behaves in areas that the player doesn't have access to and normally can't see up close. It shows well how powerful raytracing already is when it just simply replaces basic lighting.
Bonus pic of a normal game area because I don't wanna post just janky looking low-poly stuff
What I haven't found yet was an option to change the time of day or whatever. I think a time-lapse would be showing how dynamic all this lighting is really well.
Great work!I've been digging back into Metro Exodus and man that GI is still killer. I thought it would be fun to no clip out of the normal game area and see how raytracing behaves in areas that the player doesn't have access to and normally can't see up close. It shows well how powerful raytracing already is when it just simply replaces basic lighting.
Bonus pic of a normal game area because I don't wanna post just janky looking low-poly stuff
What I haven't found yet was an option to change the time of day or whatever. I think a time-lapse would be showing how dynamic all this lighting is really well.
How did we live without ray tracing? No game should look that flat.
Way too early to talk about workflow improvements from access to ray tracing. At this point it just looks better and damn the human costs, same as all AAA features.
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I also found out that you can totally load weather parameters from different maps. Really shows off nicely how the indirect lighting changes.
RIS was/is presented as a way to enhance traditional upscaling. In games like Shadow of The Tomb Raider and Monster Hunter World, simply rendering at a lower resolution and applying RIS or Freestyle Sharpening offer a better end-result than using DLSS to reconstruct a 4K image.
DLSS is at its core an alternative to basic upscaling. It's not really difficult to see why comparisons are made IMO. But it has led to some misinformation since some believe RIS is more than a smart sharpening filter.
wow, the evidence for how fantastic ray tracing is continues to pile up.I've been digging back into Metro Exodus and man that GI is still killer. I thought it would be fun to no clip out of the normal game area and see how raytracing behaves in areas that the player doesn't have access to and normally can't see up close. It shows well how powerful raytracing already is when it just simply replaces basic lighting.
Bonus pic of a normal game area because I don't wanna post just janky looking low-poly stuff
What I haven't found yet was an option to change the time of day or whatever. I think a time-lapse would be showing how dynamic all this lighting is really well.
Ah, thanks. I already thought that was be the case and that the raytraced version is the more realistic looking one. Realistic isn't always stylistically/artistically the best though. I think the darker, less realistic version looks better, a lot actually, it has more atmosphere.
I'm referring only to that one comparison though. In others the raytraced version does look better.
Realism is indeed always better. Just like in real life, if they want to achieve a specific effect they can light things differently. It's not like movies use fake lights, but they light things stylistically all the same.
Nothing about light behaving like light prevents you from doing what you want with the environment, it only prevents it from looking fake as fuck when you do it.
In this specific case if for some reason you think it looks better 'darker', they can just turn down the lights. It's still not a condemnation of RTX.
Anyone know if Metro has been updated to use the newer DLSS from Control and Youngblood that actually looks good and not the DLSS it had on launch? Looking to get back into it but without DLSS the fps hit for RTX is a bummer, and the DLSS it had was a blurry mess on launch.
Yeah it's better than it was at launch, I was happy playing at 1080p with maxed RT and DLSS on my 2070 Super.
Who said anything about that? I was not generally condemning use of RTX, lol.
There's no situation where light behaving like it's not light is superior. You can complain about the art direction or whatever, but preferring the fake picture over the real really just means you take issue with the direction, not the tech. That's my point.
Sometimes they can't enable full/enough raytracing so it can end up looking like a different kind of fake lighting. It doesn't always look real vs fake. They might even be able to get closer to real with good faked lighting with current performance in certain scenes.
"Full" raytracing is only on what, Quake II and Minecraft? There are scenarios in Metro that actually look worse, maybe even more fake, I assume because of performance limitations requiring scaled back implementations, like more limited bounces etc resulting in too high a contrast and crushed blacks. On the whole though, Metro's faked lighting isn't great.
I'm not seeing how those shots "look more fake". hard to look faker than "complete absence of shadow"
I'm surprised people are being so obtuse sr about that rt on/off shot of her face in Control, that example of the blown out lighting on a face can be found in damn near every game, going from Uncharted, tlou, Quantum Break, Ryse, God of War etc etc I've seen that exact shot a million times while trying to capture stuff in game. Honestly it's a perfect example I can relate to because damn near any game we've seen where it's got great lighting otherwise, the limitations are always widely apparent.
Haha, this is why it's sometimes difficult to sell RT, people are informed and they pick the difference but in most of those comparison pics, i could totally see people outside of that group even thinking the darker version with fake shadows looks better. IN the indoor cabin shot, the RT version has nice indirect light, ok, but i'm pretty sure lots of people would think the darker version is more "realistic" even if it's not.
It's better, but not on the same level as Wolfenstein young blood imo.
400 for what essentially is the entry level card is not that exciting either to me sadly :-(
I found that a lot of people pick images with less contrast because they can see everything. If it's too dark and they can't see, instant "looks fake"/"I dont like it"
Maybe ? I was more under the feeling that we've been used to the idea that big shadows everywhere are kinda realistic and gritty, would be interesting to test a panel and ask them what's the best light :p
But my point is it's more subjective and less obvious night and day than people here think
Here you go. Soooo good.
It's more amazing if you witnessed where they started from, it was such a mess.
DLSSOFF — Postimages
DLSSON — Postimages
that's disgustingly beautiful.I've been digging back into Metro Exodus and man that GI is still killer. I thought it would be fun to no clip out of the normal game area and see how raytracing behaves in areas that the player doesn't have access to and normally can't see up close. It shows well how powerful raytracing already is when it just simply replaces basic lighting.
Bonus pic of a normal game area because I don't wanna post just janky looking low-poly stuff
What I haven't found yet was an option to change the time of day or whatever. I think a time-lapse would be showing how dynamic all this lighting is really well.
Non-traced looks like gouraud shading in comparison.
Because RT isn't an essential visual feature to experience a video game. Many people can't even tell the difference or know what's better when you show them RT on/off comparison images. I work with graphics every day so when I see these comparison images I know what to look for and I go "ahh that's cool, I can see shadows falling in a physically accurate way in a game rendered in real time". But so what? General public doesn't care if some shadow under a sofa is physically accurate. You need flickering gif images to point out the difference, and even then some can't tell which is the better version.
And that's how we lived without ray tracing and will continue to do so just fine until it becomes cheap and mainstream.
