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Jun 10, 2018
1,060
You have it backwards, the base PS4 has a minor-moderately more powerful CPU than the base Xbox One.

EDit: turns out I misremembered!

Base Xbox One 1.75
Base PS4 1.6

But the PS4 CPU has more support/offloading, as it also includes a seperate dedicated audio chip among other things. So it's not as simple as comparing the raw ghz.
Xbox One also has a dedicated DSP.

SemiAccurate said:
The last major chunk of the XBox One is the audio subsystem and the eight co-processors that make it up. This is not just a sound card with a lot of channels, while the Audio Processors block does that it also does things like positional audio and beam forming for the Kinnect. Think of this more as a DSP block than a Sound Blaster. All said, the entire unit can do 15.4 GFLOPS and a claimed 18G OPS in total including the FP and scalar functions.

www.semiaccurate.com

XBox One’s sound block is much more than audio

This story is the third part of SemiAccurate’s look at the XBox One’s architecture as presented at the Hot Chips 25 conference.
 

thecaseace

Member
May 1, 2018
3,218
One thing I'm eager for this next gen to do is put to rest the whole "ecosystem" argument. I really don't see how owning digital PS4 games is some kind of chain keeping you with Playstation until the end of your natural born life. I was invested in the Xbox ecosystem for 7 years with the 360, but when the PS4 turned out more powerful (and cheaper) I made that my main console for most of the generation. If the Xbox Series X is more powerful, I'll make it my main console (though I plan to buy both regardless). If backward compatibility was some guarantee that 90% of your audience would buy your next console, than I don't think there ever would have been a console that didn't have backwards compatibility.


Ecosystem lock in is real. It doesn't stop users moving completely, it just makes it harder.

It's also not specific to the games industry iOS/iPhone dominance, for example speaks to this.
 

@dedmunk

Banned
Oct 11, 2018
3,088
Ecosystem lock in is real. It doesn't stop users moving completely, it just makes it harder.

It's also not specific to the games industry iOS/iPhone dominance, for example speaks to this.

I didn't go back to iOS just for the apps I'd bought. For me it was a better product all round.

I didn't bother with Xbox this generation but I would go back in an instant if the hardware is the most powerful.
 

slsk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
247
Doesn't the PS4 Slim still outsell the Pro (at least it does in Japan)? Most consumers are price conscious so there will need to be a solution for them.
 

leng jai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
15,116
One thing I'm eager for this next gen to do is put to rest the whole "ecosystem" argument. I really don't see how owning digital PS4 games is some kind of chain keeping you with Playstation until the end of your natural born life. I was invested in the Xbox ecosystem for 7 years with the 360, but when the PS4 turned out more powerful (and cheaper) I made that my main console for most of the generation. If the Xbox Series X is more powerful, I'll make it my main console (though I plan to buy both regardless). If backward compatibility was some guarantee that 90% of your audience would buy your next console, than I don't think there ever would have been a console that didn't have backwards compatibility.

I mean it makes complete sense if you do own a substantial library of software for that platform and something like Game Pass. One of the best things about PC gaming is that no matter how many times you upgrade your hardware you always have access to your collection of games.
 

cgcg

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
430
User Banned (2 Weeks): Conspiracy rhetoric towards a media outlet, Accumulated infractions
I think that if you are Sony, you are ecstatic that folks think PS5 is a 9.2TF console. As the saying goes, you should "under promise and over deliver" and the Internet is doing a great job of "under promising" on behalf of Sony. Heck, even DF put out a video explaining how Sony will under perform relative to Microsoft. Sony couldn't buy that kind of good advertising ahead of it's rumored Feb reveal.

I do find it amazing that normally rational folks have arrived at irrational conclusions based on sketchy evidence. Sony when they went from PS4 to PS4 Pro went from 18 CU's to 36 CU's. Microsoft went from 12 CU's to 40 CU's for Xbox One and Xbox One X, respectively. This is the power of going from 28nm to 16nm. Can you imagine the Sony team thinking "For the next gen Xbox Microsoft is going to shrink from 40 CU's to 36 CU's, so we can easily match or beat them in TF's by sticking to 36CU's and just raising the clock speed". Ludicrous. If you had any sense at all, you would guess that Microsoft would do a minimum of 40 CU's in the next gen and more than likely increase the CU count given the transistor density of 7nm. Yet, many folks are happy to believe that Sony went with a 36 CU solution. Even given that Sony will be investing heavily in a PSVR2, somehow 36 CU's and 9.2TF was still the best solution for next gen VR. Sony must love that this rumor is spreading across the Internet.

Nah more like DF is busy cashing that check. It's totally stupid to do a comparison based in sketchy rumors.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,319
One thing I'm eager for this next gen to do is put to rest the whole "ecosystem" argument. I really don't see how owning digital PS4 games is some kind of chain keeping you with Playstation until the end of your natural born life. I was invested in the Xbox ecosystem for 7 years with the 360, but when the PS4 turned out more powerful (and cheaper) I made that my main console for most of the generation. If the Xbox Series X is more powerful, I'll make it my main console (though I plan to buy both regardless). If backward compatibility was some guarantee that 90% of your audience would buy your next console, than I don't think there ever would have been a console that didn't have backwards compatibility.

Next gen certainly won't end the ecosystem argument. If someone has xbox live and gamepass paid through 2020, and plays games that require either of those services, and wants to access their current digital purchases on the next system they buy, ecosystem will continue to be a convincing argument.
 

HgS

Member
Dec 13, 2019
586
Ecosystem lock in is real. It doesn't stop users moving completely, it just makes it harder.

It's also not specific to the games industry iOS/iPhone dominance, for example speaks to this.

I think on Era we project the value of our own libraries onto the 10's of millions of owners who likely place little to no value in their library. The top 20 list in my region is 12 annualized series, sports games and FTP. All of which are easily replaceable, or basically abandoned once the new yearly version releases. About half the remaining amount are games like Fallen Order which most people will play and likely not even complete. There are a few with persistent value in that they are always very popular and cost money to replace. Rainbow 6, GTA, Minecraft... But I can't imagine holding onto a console for old versions of FIFA and COD. Which for a huge portion of the market would be their library.
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
15,985
Doesn't the PS4 Slim still outsell the Pro (at least it does in Japan)? Most consumers are price conscious so there will need to be a solution for them.

This isn't really accurate.

The console user base is made up of a lot of different consumers- some price sensitive, some not so much. An intelligent marketing strategy tries to hit all of them.

At launch you target your hardcore and core consumers. These are your users who are not price sensitive- it makes sense to do so since manufacturing costs are still high, and there aren't really many games exclusive to the platform. These are people who like having the latest and greatest and buy on potential. These users also buy the largest amount of accessories, games, and sign up for things like PS+.

Over time, you try appeal to a different set of consumers. These are more price sensitive and take into account value to cost. For instance, these might be people that own a current generation console but won't switch until a certain franchise shows up, or a certain amount of compelling software is available. Most of your users are probably in this boat, but even at launch most of them wouldn't buy in because the software simply isn't there to make the cost/value proposition make sense.

Bringing up the rear are your price sensitive buyers- they won't buy anything if it's over a certain price threshold- that might be $199, might be $99, whatever it is, they're locked into "cost" no matter what the value proposition of the system is. Your "slim" versions of the system are usually an attempt to reduce cost to a level where appealing to these buyers makes financial sense. These buyers also buy relatively few games, or only buy things that are heavily discounted.

At launch, trying to price a system to appeal to the latter two of these categories is bad business. There's a limit to the amount of systems that can be produced and shipped in a given year- you want those going to your most profitable users. If hypothetically sony DID release a PS5 at $199, they wouldn't sell any more units than they would at $499. Either way they'd sell out, but in the case of the former a lot of those buyers would be people who don't buy a lot of games, don't buy accessories like extra controllers or PSVR, and don't sign up for PS+.

It's a money losing proposition. You want to target those consumers EVENTUALLY, but not at launch when profitability is crucial.
 

aevanhoe

Slayer of the Eternal Voidslurper
Member
Aug 28, 2018
7,322
Don't forget PC.

- Ultra high end enthusiast (Windows + game pass)
- High end (Series X)
- Entry (Series S)

I suspect many households will have 2 MS platforms next gen.

If 9TF is true Sony will have a mid range product with Nintendo offering mobility and high quality Nintendo games.

Great time to be a gamer with tons of options.

I love it how you added "great time to be a gamer with tons of options" to try and sound objective while you're putting two tiers above a "mid-range product" Playstation 5. MS ultra and high-end platforms so great that many households may end up getting 2, Nintendo with their high quality Nintendo games, and Sony with a mid-range product (nice avoidance of Sony exclusives there, btw).

We've had these "tons of options" for the past several years already. Expensive PCs were the most powerful, Xbox One X was more powerful than PS4 Pro, and we had regular consoles below that. So, this "great time to be a gamer" has been here this whole generation. Other than stealthing in a hot take that Sony's flagship console will be a "mid-range product", what were you trying to say?
 
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DvdGzz

Banned
Mar 21, 2018
3,580
I love it how you added "great time to be a gamer with tons of options" to try and sound objective while you're putting two tiers above a "mid-range product" Playstation 5.

We've had these "tons of options" for the past several years already. Expensive PCs were the most powerful, Xbox One X was more powerful than PS4 Pro, and we had regular consoles below that. So, this "great time to be a gamer" has been here this whole generation. Other than stealthing in a hot take that Sony's flagship console will be a "mid-range product", what were you trying to say?


You sound defensive over his opinion. If the 9.2 tf is true, many will share his sentiment. It will be a Sony exclusive box, that's it. I will happily buy it.
 

aevanhoe

Slayer of the Eternal Voidslurper
Member
Aug 28, 2018
7,322
If the 9.2 tf is true, many will share his sentiment.

I seriously doubt it, but ok, we'll just have to see. Still, that post was not written with the love of incredible gamer choice in mind, no matter what turns out to be true. I am not defensive (neither Microsoft nor Sony need our help or defense), I just find this style of posting mildly annoying.
 

DvdGzz

Banned
Mar 21, 2018
3,580
I seriously doubt it, but ok, we'll just have to see. Still, that post was not written with the love of incredible gamer choice in mind, no matter what turns out to be true. I am not defensive (neither Microsoft nor Sony need our help or defense), I just find this style of posting mildly annoying.

And I hope you're right. I want the Demon's Soul's remaster/remake to look as good as possible. And I want Naughty Dog to blow our minds which I know they will, even with 9.2 tf. That is still a huge upgrade from PS4 and look at TLOU2. I can't wait!
 

aevanhoe

Slayer of the Eternal Voidslurper
Member
Aug 28, 2018
7,322
And I hope you're right. I want the Demon's Soul's remaster/remake to look as good as possible. And I want Naughty Dog to blow our minds which I know they will, even with 9.2 tf. That is still a huge upgrade from PS4 and look at TLOU2. I can't wait!

Hey, I'd say Naughty Dog will blow our minds with 4 tf in a few months :))

But yeah, I'm honestly looking forward to both MS and Sony consoles.
 

Zones

Member
Oct 28, 2017
293
I have no idea where you got that I expressed that uncontainable delight for next-gen or a preference to Xbox Series X because I somehow expect next-gen open world games to graphically look as good as Hellblade's 2 Trailer across the board. I expressed the overall upgrade for next gen will be so huge, I don't think most studio's will be able to push it to it's limit.
Oh come on, I was very obviously not referring to you. In fact, I replied to you mainly because I thought you'd know that my initial reply was made in jest as the last exchange I had with you here in this very thread was somewhat similar to this one.

Anyway, the Hellblade II Digital Foundry analysis topic had a bunch of downright hostile and delusional members attacking DF because DF dared to question/analyse the prospect of such high graphical fidelity being actually possible for the shipped end-product.

I have legitimately read some unbelievably unrealistic expectation on this and other forums regarding next-gen capabilities, and I was referring to those people, and definitely not you.
 

RSTEIN

Member
Nov 13, 2017
1,868
I love it how you added "great time to be a gamer with tons of options" to try and sound objective while you're putting two tiers above a "mid-range product" Playstation 5. MS ultra and high-end platforms so great that many households may end up getting 2, Nintendo with their high quality Nintendo games, and Sony with a mid-range product (nice avoidance of Sony exclusives there, btw).

We've had these "tons of options" for the past several years already. Expensive PCs were the most powerful, Xbox One X was more powerful than PS4 Pro, and we had regular consoles below that. So, this "great time to be a gamer" has been here this whole generation. Other than stealthing in a hot take that Sony's flagship console will be a "mid-range product", what were you trying to say?
To echo the other poster I think you're seeing something that isn't there. You sound pretty invested in all of this.

When these next gen consoles launch we will have more consoles/gaming devices/platforms on the market at the begging of a new console gen than we've ever had before. You could spend $3k or $100 and get access to incredible content.

- PC
- VR
- PS5
- Series X
- Series S
- Switch
- Switch Lite
- Stadia
- Facebook
- Steam
- Tencent
- Epic
- iOS
- Apple Arcade
- Android
- SNES/Genesis classics
- Subscription services from MS, Sony, EA
- Plus Xbox One, PS4 which will continue to be around for a bit.

When you look at the above a 9TF PS5 @ $399 will be the mid range choice. Not top of the line but above it's next competitor. It is in the middle, ie mid range. That's not a dig. It is what it is. It will sell like hot cakes.
 

litebrite

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,832
Oh come on, I was very obviously not referring to you. In fact, I replied to you mainly because I thought you'd know that my initial reply was made in jest as the last exchange I had with you here in this very thread was somewhat similar to this one.

Anyway, the Hellblade II Digital Foundry analysis topic had a bunch of downright hostile and delusional members attacking DF because DF dared to question/analyse the prospect of such high graphical fidelity being actually possible for the shipped end-product.

I have legitimately read some unbelievably unrealistic expectation on this and other forums regarding next-gen capabilities, and I was referring to those people, and definitely not you.
I didn't think you were referring to me, but you're reply to Naga who commented on a post that was replying to me threw me off. LOL
 

OneBadMutha

Member
Nov 2, 2017
6,059
And I hope you're right. I want the Demon's Soul's remaster/remake to look as good as possible. And I want Naughty Dog to blow our minds which I know they will, even with 9.2 tf. That is still a huge upgrade from PS4 and look at TLOU2. I can't wait!

If Demon Souls has lesser a version of ray tracing, will anyone know or care? Other stuff such as texture detail is unlikely to push the 9TF to it's limitations. Takes a lot of time and money to make games technically push the bar aside from using low hanging fruit that are expensive resource hogs like ray tracing or resolution. Even if the devs had 12TF to work with, I can't see them using that power to prioritize insane levels of texture detail over ray tracing and resolution because of development cost vs benefit.
 

Oracle

Banned
Nov 7, 2017
1,932
Releasing a video like this is quite risky. I mean stipulation is one thing and it's normal banter on forums....but from a respected outlet such as DF it has to have some weight. This isn't some random youtuber looking for views. If this was fabricated for quick gains it would hurt integrity on the long run wouldn't it? For that reason alone I think this is more fact vs fiction.
 

Poimandres

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,852
To echo the other poster I think you're seeing something that isn't there. You sound pretty invested in all of this.

When these next gen consoles launch we will have more consoles/gaming devices/platforms on the market at the begging of a new console gen than we've ever had before. You could spend $3k or $100 and get access to incredible content.

- PC
- VR
- PS5
- Series X
- Series S
- Switch
- Switch Lite
- Stadia
- Facebook
- Steam
- Tencent
- Epic
- iOS
- Apple Arcade
- Android
- SNES/Genesis classics
- Subscription services from MS, Sony, EA
- Plus Xbox One, PS4 which will continue to be around for a bit.

When you look at the above a 9TF PS5 @ $399 will be the mid range choice. Not top of the line but above it's next competitor. It is in the middle, ie mid range. That's not a dig. It is what it is. It will sell like hot cakes.

Based on the theoretical specs, PS5 would be above everything but PC and XBSX. With so many other options from smart phones up I think calling that "mid range" is selling it short. It's still in the higher end of the power scale. Likewise I wouldn't have called the XB1 a "mid range system" when it launched even with PC and PS4 above it. It's a proper next gen console, just not the most powerful.

It's all semantics anyway so how exactly you want to acknowledge power levels means very little.
 

RSTEIN

Member
Nov 13, 2017
1,868
Based on the theoretical specs, PS5 would be above everything but PC and XBSX. With so many other options from smart phones up I think calling that "mid range" is selling it short. It's still in the higher end of the power scale. Likewise I wouldn't have called the XB1 a "mid range system" when it launched even with PC and PS4 above it. It's a proper next gen console, just not the most powerful.

It's all semantics anyway so how exactly you want to acknowledge power levels means very little.
Disagree. At likely $100> less and with quite a bit less power than Series X it will occupy a more defined middle ground between X and S. Comparisons to last gen don't make sense. Personally I think Sony is very smart at 9TF. It will be the market share leader and games will still look incredible. Look at the poll on this very forum.
 

Lakeside

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,210
Based on the theoretical specs, PS5 would be above everything but PC and XBSX. With so many other options from smart phones up I think calling that "mid range" is selling it short. It's still in the higher end of the power scale. Likewise I wouldn't have called the XB1 a "mid range system" when it launched even with PC and PS4 above it. It's a proper next gen console, just not the most powerful.

It's all semantics anyway so how exactly you want to acknowledge power levels means very little.

I think it's pretty clear what the commentary was referring to. When that eagerly awaited cross-gen title launches nobody going to be playing it on a phone.
 

Poimandres

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,852
Disagree. At likely $100> less and with quite a bit less power than Series X it will occupy a more defined middle ground between X and S. Comparisons to last gen don't make sense. Personally I think Sony is very smart at 9TF. It will be the market share leader and games will still look incredible. Look at the poll on this very forum.

Sure, a middle ground between the S and the X... But I wouldn't even clasify the S as a "low end gaming machine" when you have last gen consoles, tablets, phones, Nintendo etc being less powerful and with less modern capabilities.
 

Poimandres

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,852
I think it's pretty clear what the commentary was referring to. When that eagerly awaited cross-gen title launches nobody going to be playing it on a phone.

Well the post I was responding to did list like 15 different methods for playing games, and PS5 is certainly high on that list in terms of power.

Cross generational titles makes it even muddier! If the PS5 is mid range for cross gen titles, then what is a base XB1 or god forbid Switch? If the PS5 is middle, that would make The XS low, and the entire generation of older machines playing the same game the lower than low tier? Ehhh just doesn't work for me.
 

RSTEIN

Member
Nov 13, 2017
1,868
Well the post I was responding to did list like 15 different methods for playing games, and PS5 is certainly high on that list in terms of power.

Cross generational titles makes it even muddier! If the PS5 is mid range for cross gen titles, then what is a base XB1 or god forbid Switch? If the PS5 is middle, that would make The XS low, and the entire generation of older machines playing the same game the lower than low tier? Ehhh just doesn't work for me.
A bit muddy but that's the way it is.

If a 9TF console fell from the sky today we'd all be floored. Nobody is taking anything away from Sony—a wellpriced, 9TF machine with Sonys superior studios will be an incredible machine.

But nothing exists within a vacuum. Sandwiched between Series S and Series X with PC and switch representing the ceiling and floor, respectively, it will be a mid range spec. The difference between 12TF and 9TF is huge.
 

Poimandres

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,852
A bit muddy but that's the way it is.

If a 9TF console fell from the sky today we'd all be floored. Nobody is taking anything away from Sony—a wellpriced, 9TF machine with Sonys superior studios will be an incredible machine.

But nothing exists within a vacuum. Sandwiched between Series S and Series X with PC and switch representing the ceiling and floor, respectively, it will be a mid range spec. The difference between 12TF and 9TF is huge.

It's large on paper, but I'm not going to make any assumptions until the machines actually launch and we see how games look/perform. Like I think the One X can currently hang pretty well with a lot of fully specced out PC games running on hardware far more powerful. Selfishly I want Microsoft to kill it next gen because I'm planning on sticking with PC gaming, but I think painting the PS5 as mid range is a bit baity.
 

Lakeside

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,210
Well the post I was responding to did list like 15 different methods for playing games, and PS5 is certainly high on that list in terms of power.

Cross generational titles makes it even muddier! If the PS5 is mid range for cross gen titles, then what is a base XB1 or god forbid Switch? If the PS5 is middle, that would make The XS low, and the entire generation of older machines playing the same game the lower than low tier? Ehhh just doesn't work for me.

The post you were responding to didn't make much sense either. The original comment was in regard to the next generation. People are just lying for ways to repaint it.

Yes there will be older systems playing older games. The comment was referring to future content, And yeah Switch sequel will likely be bringing up the rear in that scenario and people will be ok with it for sake of portability.
 

ImaLawy3r

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Jun 6, 2019
619
I didn't go back to iOS just for the apps I'd bought. For me it was a better product all round.

I didn't bother with Xbox this generation but I would go back in an instant if the hardware is the most powerful.
Backwards compatibility means nothing to me. I think it's for the niche audience that thinks it's so important. I'd love to see actual stats on it. In any event, I'd surmise that people are sticking to a system because of power, friends, exclusives, and fanboyism...... Then somewhere down below is backwards compatibility. Just my two cents.
 

Nos

Member
Oct 27, 2017
207
A bit muddy but that's the way it is.

If a 9TF console fell from the sky today we'd all be floored. Nobody is taking anything away from Sony—a wellpriced, 9TF machine with Sonys superior studios will be an incredible machine.

But nothing exists within a vacuum. Sandwiched between Series S and Series X with PC and switch representing the ceiling and floor, respectively, it will be a mid range spec. The difference between 12TF and 9TF is huge.
It was PS4 + PC this gen and it will be PS5 + PC next gen.
No need to overthink this.
 

retrosega

Member
Jun 14, 2019
1,283
Microsoft will probably take a loss on each XSX sold. As has been said before, they could afford to sell the XSX for the same money as the PS5 and thrown in a years gamepass too.

Looking forward to seeing both systems in action this year.
 
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Instro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,000
A bit muddy but that's the way it is.

If a 9TF console fell from the sky today we'd all be floored. Nobody is taking anything away from Sony—a wellpriced, 9TF machine with Sonys superior studios will be an incredible machine.

But nothing exists within a vacuum. Sandwiched between Series S and Series X with PC and switch representing the ceiling and floor, respectively, it will be a mid range spec. The difference between 12TF and 9TF is huge.
That doesn't strike me as a particularly meaningful difference, assuming everything else is roughly the same. That might net you locked 60fps vs variable framerate, or locked 4k over variable resolution. It would ultimately be the smallest difference between launch consoles we've had yet.
 

Afrikan

Member
Oct 28, 2017
16,957
Microsoft will probably take a loss on each XSX sold. As has been said before, they could afford to sell the XSX for the ame money as the PS5 and thrown in a years gamepass too.

Looking forward to seeing both systems in action this year.

I remember when the orginal Xbox was first announced. Folks were saying online how Microsoft could give them away for free, and make money back on sales of games and accessories.
 

retrosega

Member
Jun 14, 2019
1,283
I remember when the orginal Xbox was first announced. Folks were saying online how Microsoft could give them away for free, and make money back on sales of games and accessories.

True, but Microsoft have a point to prove this time round and have the resources to see off everyone, if they want to.
Going to be a facinating year.
 

Poimandres

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,852
I remember when the orginal Xbox was first announced. Folks were saying online how Microsoft could give them away for free, and make money back on sales of games and accessories.

When the original Xbox launched in Australia it was $649. A few months later you could get one with Halo for $399. The same price as a base PS2. Given the power difference and that the Xbox came with its killer app, I went with an Xbox. I never pay more for less.
 

Deleted member 46489

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 7, 2018
1,979
I remember when the orginal Xbox was first announced. Folks were saying online how Microsoft could give them away for free, and make money back on sales of games and accessories.
That means nothing. 5 years ago no one would've predicted that Microsoft would give away 300+ games, including all their first party games for a measly $1 subscription (for the first month). Today's Microsoft is nothing like the MS of ten or twenty years ago.

They've made huge investments in subscription services, game streaming and game studios. They'll do everything they must to win this gen. Even if that means eating a loss on the hardware.
 

scabobbs

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,103
That means nothing. 5 years ago no one would've predicted that Microsoft would give away 300+ games, including all their first party games for a measly $1 subscription (for the first month). Today's Microsoft is nothing like the MS of ten or twenty years ago.

They've made huge investments in subscription services, game streaming and game studios. They'll do everything they must to win this gen. Even if that means eating a loss on the hardware.
Don't think they care much for "winning the generation" so much as increasing their monthly active users on XBL and Games Pass. The console wars are an afterthought when the big money is in software.
 

aevanhoe

Slayer of the Eternal Voidslurper
Member
Aug 28, 2018
7,322
When you look at the above a 9TF PS5 @ $399 will be the mid range choice. Not top of the line but above it's next competitor. It is in the middle, ie mid range. That's not a dig. It is what it is. It will sell like hot cakes.

Ok, so by that logic, when you look at the beginning of current gen - where you had PC > PS4 > Xbox One in terms of power - imagine what would've happened if I came to a console launch thread or something like that back in the day, and called Xbox a "low-end product", what do you think the reaction would be?

Teraflops is not everything, it's not even the most important thing. This whole thread is a lot of people pretending nothing else counts, because they want to prove a desired narrative - and don't tell me most of the posts here don't have that "Empire strikes back" vibe.

So, no, we don't know for sure, but I think we can expect two high-end products in console space by the end of this year and teraflops are not nearly as important as some people here wish it. Software is also the product. Controller features are the product. Disk drive is the product. Services are the product.

And Microsoft may just do well here - I am not even rooting for Sony.
 
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Hermii

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,685
Ok, so by that logic, when you look at the beginning of current gen - where you had PC > PS4 > Xbox One in terms of power - imagine what would've happened if I came to a console launch thread or something like that back in the day, and called Xbox a "low-end product", what do you think would happen?

Teraflops is not everything, it's not even the most important thing. This whole thread is a lot of people pretending nothing else counts, because they want to prove a desired narrative - and don't tell me most of the posts here don't have that "Empire strikes back" vibe.

So, no, we don't know for sure, but I think we can expect two high-end products in console space by the end of this year and teraflops are not nearly as important as some people here wish it. Software is also the product. Controller features are the product. Disk drive is the product. Services are the product.

And Microsoft may just do well here - I am not even rooting for Sony.
I think both ms and Sony can take the responsibility/ blame for people focusing on teraflops, they both been doing it in their pr a lot.
 

Deleted member 46489

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Aug 7, 2018
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Is that possible after this generation? Serious question.
I think people seriously overestimate brand loyalty. Take Epic, for example. Most people on Era and Reddit seem to despise the company. And yet, a huge number of gamers have made accounts on Epic store, either to play Fortnite, or claim the free games they keep putting out, or buy a game cheap with those $10 coupons. Valve might have earned consumer loyalty, but Epic simply has deals too good to pass up.

If hundreds of years of business have taught us anything, it's that everyone loves a good deal. Imagine if Series X is the same price as a PS5. But it's way more powerful and comes with an entire year of gamepass. That's way more high quality free games than Epic could dream of giving away. And consumers are very sharp with such calculations. They'll think of saving almost $500 on future game purchases by simply going for Xbox. That's a deal too good to pass up.

Don't think they care much for "winning the generation" so much as increasing their monthly active users on XBL and Games Pass. The console wars are an afterthought when the big money is in software.
Yes, they wish to increase their monthly active users and whatnot, but they also wish to sell their console to as many people as possible. Spending millions of dollars in research and development of a new console means that they care plenty about winning the gen. The more people who play on their platform, the more popular will their subscription services be. And the more will their games sell. It's a pretty direct connection.
 

Yankee Ruin X

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,682
I bought OG Xbox day 1 in the UK and can remember when they did the price drop shortly after release I got a free controller and 2 games as a gesture of goodwill through MS.
 

Fredrik

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Oct 27, 2017
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No, it was $299. Microsoft ate a $125 loss on each console (costed $425 to manufacture).

I assume it was a loss Microsoft choosing to take a loss in order to enter the console market.
Strange, was it just here then? I didn't buy it at launch but I definitely remember it being really expensive.