Digital Foundry

joeblow · Dec 4, 2020

Jiraiya said:
Player movement compared to any 2k from last gen...Especially foot planting has seen a massive leap.

What they're doing with animation is beyond any next gen game released so far.

Well, that perspective may depend on what the gamer is expecting. My first post in this thread highlighted my main complaint with videogame basketball for years... the uncanny valley. Even though the player models are improved visually, any improvements to NBA2K's animation and player movement is still woefully lacking when compared to real life, which is what the uncanny valley effect highlights.

So as a "videogame" improvement, some out there might be satisfied. As for me and some others in this thread, we expected to see a lot better, more fluid animation this gen that better reflects real life movement. Maybe we will in a few years, who knows.

Jiraiya · Dec 4, 2020

joeblow said:
Well, that perspective may depend on what the gamer is expecting. My first post in this thread highlighted my main complaint with videogame basketball for years... the uncanny valley. Even though the player models are improved visually, any improvements to NBA2K's animation and player movement is still woefully lacking when compared to real life, which is what the uncanny valley effect highlights.

So as a "videogame" improvement, some out there might be satisfied. As for me and some others in this thread, we expected to see a lot better, more fluid animation this gen that better reflects real life movement. Maybe we will in a few years, who knows.

I see fluid animation whenever i play it. I can only imagine your focusing on dead ball situations and applying that to the on court action.

joeblow · Dec 4, 2020

Jiraiya said:
I see fluid animation whenever i play it. I can only imagine your focusing on dead ball situations and applying that to the on court action.

Lol, that assumption couldn't be further from the truth. I barely looked at any of the cut scene/replay stuff closely. I played the video to focus on the actual gameplay, and the animation is still miles away from reality... it clearly skips a lot of frames in between each frame to produce motion when compared to real life.

I mean, the video in the OP even has a sequence where a real life clip is followed by a 2K clip. If you think the movement in both are the same in fluidity, there really is nothing more I can do to help you. Enjoy your game.

Jiraiya · Dec 4, 2020

joeblow said:
Lol, that assumption couldn't be further from the truth. I barely looked at any of the cut scene/replay stuff closely. I played the video to focus on the actual gameplay, and the animation is still miles away from reality... it clearly skips a lot of frames in between each frame to produce motion when compared to real life.

I mean, the video in the OP even has a sequence where a real life clip is followed by a 2K clip. If you think the movement in both are the same in fluidity, there really is nothing more I can do to help you. Enjoy your game.

You haven't played it?

Devilgunman · Dec 4, 2020

The disparity between MyNBA and McCareer modes is crazy. In MyCareer, all the jankiness from previous game are still there. For instance, when my guy is subbed out, the game pauses a few seconds while my man stuttering around to find an empty spot on the bench to sit his ass down. Commentary glitches are also everywhere. The announcer voices get cut off every time I shoot a free throw. Sometime they call things that aren't happening on the court, like getting excited for a massive jam when I just did a fcking floater. They also cut the pregame TNT show in MyCareer, most atrocious omission in this game.

I'm regret paying full price for this and I blame my foolishness for buying into the ads of this game.

N.Domixis · Dec 4, 2020

So I've been wondering are TF non linear?
For example.
Console A is .1 TF
Console B is 1 TF
Console B shows huge advantage but only .9 difference.
Console A is 1 TF
Console B is 2 TF
Console B is going to show decent advantage but only 1 TF difference
Console A is 10 TF
Console B is 11 TF
Consoles are pretty much the same but still 1 TF difference.

It's like if you had a console with 1000 TF and a console with 1010 TF even though ones ahead by 10 TF it's meaningless the higher you go.

Deleted member 79451 · Dec 4, 2020

N.Domixis said:
So I've been wondering are TF non linear?
For example.
Console A is .1 TF
Console B is 1 TF
Console B shows huge advantage but only .9 difference.
Console A is 1 TF
Console B is 2 TF
Console B is going to show decent advantage but only 1 TF difference
Console A is 10 TF
Console B is 11 TF
Consoles are pretty much the same but still 1 TF difference.

It's like if you had a console with 1000 TF and a console with 1010 TF even though ones ahead by 10 TF it's meaningless the higher you go.

By human perception - in terms of graphics, yes.

They're not intrinsically non linear.

arsene_P5 · Dec 4, 2020

dmix90 said:
nyways... i think we should start discussing XSX memory bandwidth issues( warning! speculation !warning ) . I don't know why but probably something to do with their split memory setup, alpha effects kill( warning! exaggeration !warning ) the console... at least in comparison to PS5

No, Xbox Series X has more bandwith for GPU tasks. Unless NBA uses more than 10GB for GPU tasks that is, which is very unlikely to happen ever. Especially in a cross gen game that runs with the same settings on Xbox Series S. The S console has 7,5GB RAM for games and Series X (10+3,5GB). With the exception of resolution difference and missing DoF there is no difference.

Why is it unlikely to happen ever? Simply put these consoles share their RAM pool between the complete APU. So some of the GB's will be used for audio, game logic, ... . The CPU wants some Christmas cookies, too.

Korezo · Dec 4, 2020

I wish DF tested the city mode, thats where the games always perform the worst, back then you needed a pro to get playable fps compared to standard. And this year the city is unplayable...

Huey · Dec 4, 2020

Haven't played a basketball game in years but man did I enjoy this video. Beautiful work, VC and excellent video, Dark1x and the DF team

WarMacheen · Dec 4, 2020

Looks good and I'd really like to play it, but after nba2k18 I'll never by another NBA2k that has shitty microtransactions.

Which means I'll likley never buy one again.

nib95 · Dec 4, 2020

arsene_P5 said:
No, Xbox Series X has more bandwith for GPU tasks. Unless NBA uses more than 10GB for GPU tasks that is, which is very unlikely to happen ever. Especially in a cross gen game that runs with the same settings on Xbox Series S. The S console has 7,5GB RAM for games and Series X (10+3,5GB). With the exception of resolution difference and missing DoF there is no difference.

Why is it unlikely to happen ever? Simply put these consoles share their RAM pool between the complete APU. So some of the GB's will be used for audio, game logic, ... . The CPU wants some Christmas cookies, too.

Again, we don't actually know if this is entirely true, and it's not necessarily that straight forward as many have been discussing for months now.

Cross-post, but the bandwidth gains the Series X has versus the PS5 are potentially up for contention due to the way ram parallelism works and how the Series X's ram is set up.

Eg the Series X has 6 x 2GB sticks, and 4 x 1GB sticks, with only 10GB of the ram being higher bandwidth (achieved with 10 x 56 GB/s on the first 1GB of all 10 sticks), and 6GB being slower (achieved with 6x 56GB/s on half of the 2GB sticks).

However that doesn't necessarily tell the full picture, as access to the 4GB could mean the system has to wait for access to the 10GB at the higher speed (occupying the full bus whilst retrieving the data at the slower bandwidth), which in turn brings down the entire average.

In other words, potentially having to take turns to access the CPU (slower) and GPU (faster) ram, and not being able to access all of it at the advertised speeds, simultaneously, thus dropping the average bandwidth on the GPU side in real world terms.

That doesn't happen with the PS5 as there is no split ram use or speed difference in the way it's set up. In other words, we know for certain it can access GPU and CPU/System ram simultaneously (at the same speed). So given the entire context of the ram set up, its not really clear that the XSX does have the ram bandwidth advantage, especially if games do end up using more than 10GB for graphics.

LoadRunner · Dec 4, 2020

Devilgunman said:
The disparity between MyNBA and McCareer modes is crazy. In MyCareer, all the jankiness from previous game are still there. For instance, when my guy is subbed out, the game pauses a few seconds while my man stuttering around to find an empty spot on the bench to sit his ass down. Commentary glitches are also everywhere. The announcer voices get cut off every time I shoot a free throw. Sometime they call things that aren't happening on the court, like getting excited for a massive jam when I just did a fcking floater. They also cut the pregame TNT show in MyCareer, most atrocious omission in this game.

I'm regret paying full price for this and I blame my foolishness for buying into the ads of this game.

I really miss the pre game and half time show as well and the commentary is somehow worse this year too, it's like they just left stuff out.

I'm actually enjoying MyTeam and my league as usual I haven't started a my career but that sucks to hear the jank is back.

I think next years version will be much better and this years is sloppy...to be expected I suppose, at least we got some updated visuals. Not sure this 2K is worthy of DF praise though.

Devilgunman · Dec 4, 2020

Korezo said:
I wish DF tested the city mode, thats where the games always perform the worst, back then you needed a pro to get playable fps compared to standard. And this year the city is unplayable...

Street ball in city mode is the worst. The movement feel super floaty. Huge delay on the shot timing as well. I can see playing a tons and get used to it but the thing is just so painful to play through. The City is huge but ugly and empty as hell. Barely anyone walking around.

giblet · Dec 4, 2020

N.Domixis said:
So I've been wondering are TF non linear?
For example.
Console A is .1 TF
Console B is 1 TF
Console B shows huge advantage but only .9 difference.
Console A is 1 TF
Console B is 2 TF
Console B is going to show decent advantage but only 1 TF difference
Console A is 10 TF
Console B is 11 TF
Consoles are pretty much the same but still 1 TF difference.

It's like if you had a console with 1000 TF and a console with 1010 TF even though ones ahead by 10 TF it's meaningless the higher you go.

Percentages...

Yeeeeeeeeeer · Dec 4, 2020

Bet most ppl here never played 2k before 🤣

PLASTICA-MAN · Dec 4, 2020

The game doesn't use ray traced reflections on the floors right? I wished it did.

HommePomme · Dec 4, 2020

PLASTICA-MAN said:
The game doesn't use ray traced reflections on the floors right? I wished it did.

Not sure it would make a big difference from the planar reflections they use now

arsene_P5 · Dec 4, 2020

nib95 said:
Cross-post, but the bandwidth gains the Series X has versus the PS5 are potentially up for contention due to the way ram parallelism works and how the Series X's ram is set up

Contention is a problem for both systems and I think this discussion about the RAM happened before in another DF thread, in which arguments the user you imo paraphrased here, got refuted (for the lack of a better word). I think this post sums up the RAM setups perfectly...

How to understand the 560 GB/s and 336 GB/s memory pools of Series X spawn

I just realize that. I had to change up my language to be a bit more diplomatic. LOL I mean; those aren’t his words you quoted. Somehow you quoted Metal Spirit and put 3Dillante there

forum.beyond3d.com

nib95 said:
Eg the Series X has 6 x 2GB sticks, and 4 x 1GB sticks, with only 10GB of the ram being higher bandwidth (achieved with 10 x 56 GB/s on the first 1GB of all 10 sticks), and 6GB being slower (achieved with 6x 56GB/s on half of the 2GB sticks).

That's correct.

PLASTICA-MAN · Dec 4, 2020

HommePomme said:
Not sure it would make a big difference from the planar reflections they use now

It will especially the reflections of off screen projectors and stuff from the ceiling and otehr sides the camera can't show. You can even see sometimes a reflection of a player not on screen for a second or less and anticipate a movement before he is in your field of view and tackling you.

MisterR · Dec 4, 2020

digitalrelic said:
Stop trying to force this console war shit, for real.

Odd, I always thought digital foundry threads were for technical comparisons. In what way is that post not consistent with that?

HommePomme · Dec 4, 2020

PLASTICA-MAN said:
It will especially the reflections of off screen projectors and stuff from the ceiling and otehr sides the camera can't show. You can even see sometimes a reflection of a player not on screen for a second or less and anticipate a movement before he is in your field of view and tackling you.

yeah not saying it'll do *nothing* but it's probably the least dramatic compared to games like spidey that heavily use SSR instead

nib95 · Dec 4, 2020

arsene_P5 said:
Contention is a problem for both systems and I think this discussion about the RAM happened before in another DF thread, in which arguments the user you imo paraphrased here, got refuted (for the lack of a better word). I think this post sums up the RAM setups perfectly...

How to understand the 560 GB/s and 336 GB/s memory pools of Series X *spawn*

I just realize that. I had to change up my language to be a bit more diplomatic. LOL I mean; those aren’t his words you quoted. Somehow you quoted Metal Spirit and put 3Dillante there

forum.beyond3d.com

That's correct.

You misunderstood my use of the word contention lol. I wasn't refering to contention in ram terms, but in the language sense, eg there is some contention/disagreement in the bandwidth figures the Series X might achieve in real world terms vs what was advertised by Microsoft, due it having to potentially take turns to access the GPU and CPU ram, thus lowering the GPU bandwidth average, something the PS5 doesn't have to contend with due to the more unified nature of its ram set up. This is actually discussed in the very thread you linked.

In terms of typical ram bandwidth contention of the kind you're presumably refering to, I don't expect anything too severe. Devs have in the past commented that they were getting 172 GB/s ram bandwidth with the PS4 in games in real world testing, which is surprisingly close to its peak of 176 GB/s.

Rats · Dec 4, 2020

N.Domixis said:
So I've been wondering are TF non linear?
For example.
Console A is .1 TF
Console B is 1 TF
Console B shows huge advantage but only .9 difference.
Console A is 1 TF
Console B is 2 TF
Console B is going to show decent advantage but only 1 TF difference
Console A is 10 TF
Console B is 11 TF
Consoles are pretty much the same but still 1 TF difference.

It's like if you had a console with 1000 TF and a console with 1010 TF even though ones ahead by 10 TF it's meaningless the higher you go.

The percentage difference is what ultimately matters.

Imagine two cars, Car A goes 30 miles an hour and Car B goes 60 miles an hour. Car A will take twice as long to get somewhere.

Now, if they do 100 and 130, the absolute difference is the same but Car A will be much closer to Car B.

rntongo · Dec 4, 2020

nib95 said:
Again, we don't actually know if this is entirely true, and it's not necessarily that straight forward as many have been discussing for months now.

Cross-post, but the bandwidth gains the Series X has versus the PS5 are potentially up for contention due to the way ram parallelism works and how the Series X's ram is set up.

Eg the Series X has 6 x 2GB sticks, and 4 x 1GB sticks, with only 10GB of the ram being higher bandwidth (achieved with 10 x 56 GB/s on the first 1GB of all 10 sticks), and 6GB being slower (achieved with 6x 56GB/s on half of the 2GB sticks).

However that doesn't necessarily tell the full picture, as access to the 4GB could mean the system has to wait for access to the 10GB at the higher speed (occupying the full bus whilst retrieving the data at the slower bandwidth), which in turn brings down the entire average.

In other words, potentially having to take turns to access the CPU (slower) and GPU (faster) ram, and not being able to access all of it at the advertised speeds, simultaneously, thus dropping the average bandwidth on the GPU side in real world terms.

That doesn't happen with the PS5 as there is no split ram use or speed difference in the way it's set up. In other words, we know for certain it can access GPU and CPU/System ram simultaneously (at the same speed). So given the entire context of the ram set up, its not really clear that the XSX does have the ram bandwidth advantage, especially if games do end up using more than 10GB for graphics.

This is a bit misleading. As far as we know all data supposed to use the 10GB game optimal RAM can access that RAM and utilize its bandwidth, the customizations to the controller and the OS must be there for this split RAM to work. The developer must have some way of understanding what assets are being sent into GPU optimal RAM and which are not. The controller will obviously give priority to the optimal higher bandwidth portion of unified RAM.

Liabe Brave · Dec 4, 2020

PLASTICA-MAN said:
It will especially the reflections of off screen projectors and stuff from the ceiling and otehr sides the camera can't show. You can even see sometimes a reflection of a player not on screen for a second or less and anticipate a movement before he is in your field of view and tackling you.

The ceiling stuff likely isn't in there, but the other players--even offscreen ones--will be accurately presented by planar reflections. They are not restricted in this manner like screenspace reflections.

Filth_Flannigan · Dec 4, 2020

PLASTICA-MAN said:
The game doesn't use ray traced reflections on the floors right? I wished it did.

I was trying to convince myself that the court in the Practice Gym had Ray Tracing. But I am not sure, it has some amazing reflections, reflects everything, including the ball being shot and stuff.

BadAss2961 · Dec 4, 2020

Kschreck said:
Serious question: Why is the XSX struggling with camera movements? This was shown in Assassin's Creed Valhalla with weird intermittent frame drops during cutscenes but it also seems to be the case with this game using that camera mode? What would cause these issues?

I don't know about Ass Creed, but I think the cam in question is demanding because it covers a lot of distance. It has the players, the entire floor, and a large section of the crowd/arena that's not visible in angles people commonly play with.

For whatever reason, the PS5 is just outperforming the XSX at a raw level here. It's odd because on paper, the XSX is supposed to be the console with the more raw power.

Speevy · Dec 4, 2020

Begun the shiniest head wars have

hydrophilic attack · Dec 4, 2020

great to see that the game runs excellently on both platforms. seems like the xsx is a tiny bit less powerful with the ever so slightly lower frame rate seen in many games but the difference is so tiny that only fanboys would care about it. in the end, both consoles seem really powerful and that's what matters

KDash · Dec 4, 2020

That NBA Jam music... <3

Anyway, the game looks great and I've been tempted to get it on Xbox Series X, but the 100+GB install scares me...and I already own a lot of NBA 2K games (at least 8), and don't end up playing them too often. The ones I played most were NBA 2K2 on Dreamcast, and NBA 2K14 on Xbox One.

rntongo · Dec 5, 2020

Sirhc said:
This is strange and its odd to see games performing almost opposite to how everyone expected with PS5 running better but SX loading faster. I wonder if there is a little more work to optimize for the bandwidth on PS5 that might not have gotten attention with the pandemic.

Would love to see some side by side testing on load times but with both being so insanely low it isn't going to be a tangible difference either way with how things look, but would love to see a technical breakdown on what makes them so close.

Exactly. Was Hoping this video would provide information on this.

Alexandros · Dec 5, 2020

Sirhc said:
This is strange and its odd to see games performing almost opposite to how everyone expected with PS5 running better but SX loading faster. I wonder if there is a little more work to optimize for the bandwidth on PS5 that might not have gotten attention with the pandemic.

I believe the cross-gen nature of these games and troubled development due to the pandemic are indeed big factors for the unexpected results. It stands to reason that most developers wouldn't have had the time to optimize their games for each console's advantages.

Kaswa101 · Dec 5, 2020

Yup said:
Bet most ppl here never played 2k before 🤣

eso76 · Dec 5, 2020

I like the guys at DF, but why do they have to use a ? at the end of every title

SuperBoss · Dec 5, 2020

Is Playoff mode still missing?

They haven't had it since 2K18 i believe, where you could just set up custom playoffs without having to go through the season.

Dictator · Dec 5, 2020

HommePomme said:
Not sure it would make a big difference from the planar reflections they use now

RT reflections would adheres to the surface normal of the floor, changing the way they looks vs. Planar ones. Also, would get things like reflections on things other than the floor then.

Fredrik · Dec 5, 2020

uptownsoul said:
This...

Especially since the ones now calling things distasteful were the very ones anticipating the DF comparisons in the first place

Yeah, I mean this is what DF is about, ban the site or let people talk about their content anyway they want. People choose where to play for all kinds of reasons but I don't see the reason for the drama here, the differences are tiny and things may change in the future but the unbiased take is that if you want the definitive multiplat versions at this point it's clear that you should buy the PS5 versions. Downplaying the small differences can be done in other threads, that's how I feel about it, DF is all about the nitpicking some of us actually care about.

Negotiator117 · Dec 5, 2020

Alexandros said:
I believe the cross-gen nature of these games and troubled development due to the pandemic are indeed big factors for the unexpected results. It stands to reason that most developers wouldn't have had the time to optimize their games for each console's advantages.

It's a more advanced piece of silicon in the Series X and by definition a steeper learning curve, add in the less mature development tools and the current results are to be expected.

Alexandros · Dec 5, 2020

Negotiator117 said:
It's a more advanced piece of silicon in the Series X and by definition a steeper learning curve, add in the less mature development tools and the current results are to be expected.

I don't doubt it. The question that has been lingering in my mind since these first few comparisons started is if we will ever see third-party developers push each console to the point where their unique advantages begin to show or if they will hit a similar baseline experience and stop there.

VG Aficionado · Dec 5, 2020

Negotiator117 said:
It's a more advanced piece of silicon in the Series X and by definition a steeper learning curve, add in the less mature development tools and the current results are to be expected.

XSX is meant to be more powerful, but how is it more advanced?

It's hard to believe a software company hasn't produced more mature tools at this point. Arguably, PS5 is more "advanced" considering it's competing with a more powerful system and it's still performing better. Not to mention the more innovative OS, controller and IO subsystem.

DjRalford · Dec 5, 2020

Alexandros said:
I don't doubt it. The question that has been lingering in my mind since these first few comparisons started is if we will ever see third-party developers push each console to the point where their unique advantages begin to show or if they will hit a similar baseline experience and stop there.

If virtual parity remains between the two it'll just come down to the preferred controller and where people want to play.

Negotiator117 · Dec 5, 2020

Alexandros said:
I don't doubt it. The question that has been lingering in my mind since these first few comparisons started is if we will ever see third-party developers push each console to the point where their unique advantages begin to show or if they will hit a similar baseline experience and stop there.

We absolutely will, what we are seeing now is the tip of the iceberg, 1 to 2 years from now games will look 3 times as good, both will excel in different areas while remaining close enough.

Deception · Dec 5, 2020

Korezo said:
I wish DF tested the city mode, thats where the games always perform the worst, back then you needed a pro to get playable fps compared to standard. And this year the city is unplayable...

Luckily they seemed to have patched out much of the stuttering that plagued the city in the first few weeks of launch but as always the latency differences between each mode make the game so inconsistent to play.

Negotiator117 · Dec 5, 2020

VG Aficionado said:
XSX is meant to be more powerful, but how is it more advanced?

It's hard to believe a software company hasn't produced more mature tools at this point. Arguably, PS5 is more "advanced" considering it's competing with a more powerful system and it's still performing better. Not to mention the more innovative OS, controller and IO subsystem.

Fully RDNA 2 architecture (PS5 isn't) because of this they waited on getting there fully featured tools out for developers.

flipswitch · Dec 5, 2020

Excuse the ignorance, so planar reflections are the old-school way of making reflections? Re-draw everything underneath through a transparent texture.?

Seen in such games as MGS & MGS2.

Deleted member 51539 · Dec 5, 2020

Speevy said:
Begun the shiniest head wars have

God of War PS5 is gonna be SICK

Elog · Dec 5, 2020

Negotiator117 said:
Fully RDNA 2 architecture (PS5 isn't) because of this they waited on getting there fully featured tools out for developers.

This narrative is not correct and we need to be better than that. The qualification samples for the two APUs came out within weeks of each other in 2019 (we know that from the leaks at the time that we now know are accurate). There was no 'wait' on the hardware side for any of them. Why Phil made a vague reference to 'wait for something' in the Verge interview and what he actually meant is very unclear.

Sony had the full chance to include the other RDNA2 pieces but choose not to - there is no hardware advantage for the XSX from this that is discernible at this point in time. Variable rates of shading and geometry culling is something both consoles are fully capable of but the hardware solutions are different with the PS5 having its customised solution through the GE and XSX having the 'standard' RDNA2 feature set to allow this.

Which solution is better is up in the air but the narrative that XSX waited for more advanced hardware features that the PS5 does not have is simply false and just marketing speech.

What MS have had though is problems - for whatever reason - with the DirectX implementation of all the new hardware features in the DK. They ended up behind schedule. But once again the idea that the DK is holding them back when the environment is very similar to the old DK in terms of how a developer can work in it is unclear to me. And that needs to be balanced against the fact that the PS5 GE seems to require quite some changes on the engine level to be fully utilised and that is with almost certainty not done on the vast majority of launch games outside - potentially - the Sony exclusives. What I am saying is that both the MS DK and the GE utilisation will be better with time and to state that one console will benefit from experience more than the other as developers become more familiar with it is premature.

Dictator · Dec 5, 2020

Elog said:
This narrative is not correct and we need to be better than that. The qualification samples for the two APUs came out within weeks of each other in 2019 (we know that from the leaks at the time that we now know are accurate). There was no 'wait' on the hardware side for any of them. Why Phil made a vague reference to 'wait for something' in the Verge interview and what he actually meant is very unclear.

Sony had the full chance to include the other RDNA2 pieces but choose not to - there is no hardware advantage for the XSX from this that is discernible at this point in time. Variable rates of shading and geometry culling is something both consoles are fully capable of but the hardware solutions are different with the PS5 having its customised solution through the GE and XSX having the 'standard' RDNA2 feature set to allow this.

Which solution is better is up in the air but the narrative that XSX waited for more advanced hardware features that the PS5 does not have is simply false and just marketing speech.

What MS have had though is problems - for whatever reason - with the DirectX implementation of all the new hardware features in the DK. They ended up behind schedule. But once again the idea that the DK is holding them back when the environment is very similar to the old DK in terms of how a developer can work in it is unclear to me. And that needs to be balanced against the fact that the PS5 GE seems to require quite some changes on the engine level to be fully utilised and that is with almost certainty not done on the vast majority of launch games outside - potentially - the Sony exclusives. What I am saying is that both the MS DK and the GE utilisation will be better with time and to state that one console will benefit from experience more than the other as developers become more familiar with it is premature.

There is no custom VRS feature on PS5 different than the base RDNA2 implementation - there is None at all, at least ATM. There is no documentation of it and no announcement from Sony to devs that it is ever coming. That is straight from multiple devs.

Negotiator117 · Dec 5, 2020

Elog said:
This narrative is not correct and we need to be better than that. The qualification samples for the two APUs came out within weeks of each other in 2019 (we know that from the leaks at the time that we now know are accurate). There was no 'wait' on the hardware side for any of them. Why Phil made a vague reference to 'wait for something' in the Verge interview and what he actually meant is very unclear.

Sony had the full chance to include the other RDNA2 pieces but choose not to - there is no hardware advantage for the XSX from this that is discernible at this point in time. Variable rates of shading and geometry culling is something both consoles are fully capable of but the hardware solutions are different with the PS5 having its customised solution through the GE and XSX having the 'standard' RDNA2 feature set to allow this.

Which solution is better is up in the air but the narrative that XSX waited for more advanced hardware features that the PS5 does not have is simply false and just marketing speech.

What MS have had though is problems - for whatever reason - with the DirectX implementation of all the new hardware features in the DK. They ended up behind schedule. But once again the idea that the DK is holding them back when the environment is very similar to the old DK in terms of how a developer can work in it is unclear to me. And that needs to be balanced against the fact that the PS5 GE seems to require quite some changes on the engine level to be fully utilised and that is with almost certainty not done on the vast majority of launch games outside - potentially - the Sony exclusives. What I am saying is that both the MS DK and the GE utilisation will be better with time and to state that one console will benefit from experience more than the other as developers become more familiar with it is premature.

I'll take Phil Spencer and numerous developers, Digital Foundry have also heard from developers that tools are behind on Xbox. I'm not saying PS5 doesn't have some form of these features but considering both worked with AMD and only one has the full features of RDNA2, it's quite telling really.

Facts are facts and then there's speculation and unfortunately you side with the latter.

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