Digital Foundry: Is Doom Eternal the most ambitious Switch port yet?

Tokyo_Funk · Jan 16, 2021

The fact that they got this running at a (mostly solid) 30fps with easily 4x the geometry of Doom 2016 is amazing. Sure the screen filters are gone ~~and there are no master levels~~, but it's Doom Eternal on a mobile platform. The good far outweighs the bad.

Edit - I have been corrected, the Master Levels are in the game, I was misinformed by another site that they were removed for performance issues.

JigglesBunny · Jan 16, 2021

My initial impression on launch wasn't too positive as I had loads of performance issues in the first level but that seemed to have been a bug. Once I kept going, it was smooth sailing and I was incredibly impressed.

Panic Button are top shelf.

Dekuman · Jan 16, 2021

scitek said:
They go hand in hand. They've gotten over 100k new subs just since October, and this is the first Switch video they've done since then, so it's not a bad time to explain what these kind of comparisons are about in hopes of tamping down some of the incendiary rhetoric that will inevitably come from those who don't understand.

/shrug,

ME: being new sub isn't an excuse
YOU: they have a lot of new subs

ok.

Síriocaz · Jan 16, 2021

Tokyo_Funk said:
The fact that they got this running at a (mostly solid) 30fps with easily 4x the geometry of Doom 2016 is amazing. Sure the screen filters are gone and there are no master levels, but it's Doom Eternal on a mobile platform. The good far outweighs the bad.

There are master levels, we have Cultist Base and ARC Complex, but we're missing Super Gore Nest because the first DLC hasn't been released. About that, I hope they don't cancel the DLC. Not sure why do I get that impression but maybe it could happen.

Tokyo_Funk · Jan 16, 2021

Síriocaz said:
There are master levels, we have Cultist Base and ARC Complex, but we're missing Super Gore Nest because the first DLC hasn't been released. About that, I hope they don't cancel the DLC. Not sure why do I get that impression but maybe it could happen.

Ah thanks for the clarification, for some reason I was told the master levels wouldn't make it due to limitations. I'll correct my post.

Lwill · Jan 16, 2021

The resolution and the textures took a significant hit, as expected, but the fact that they were able to retain the geometry of the enemies and worlds while decently maintaining 30fps is very impressive.

Tokyo_Funk said:
The fact that they got this running at a (mostly solid) 30fps with easily 4x the geometry of Doom 2016 is amazing. Sure the screen filters are gone and there are no master levels, but it's Doom Eternal on a mobile platform. The good far outweighs the bad.

Wow over 4x?! I know these games were pushing a lot of geometry, but I didn't realized that this new game was pushing that much more.
Do we have any stats in how many polygons Doom Eternal is pushing per frame?

Tokyo_Funk · Jan 16, 2021

Lwill said:
The resolution and the textures took a significant hit, as expected, but the fact that they were able to retain the geometry of the enemies and worlds while decently maintaining 30fps is very impressive.
Wow over 4x?! I know these games were pushing a lot of geometry, but I didn't realized that this new game was pushing that much more.
Do we have any stats in how many polygons Doom Eternal is pushing per frame?

According to the DSOGaming, id Tech 7 can push up to ten times the geometric detail that iD Tech 6 could. Which is crazy to think about. My 4x figure was actually nowhere near in the ballpark, but I swear that's what was said in an older interview video.

Edit - Take a look at Digital Foundry's analysis, they got access to wireframes/tools iD used to make the game

Digital Foundry guesses 80-90 Million polys per frame in some cases.

Equanimity · Jan 16, 2021

id Tech 7 is an amazing engine!
As John puts it, Doom Eternal for the Switch is the worst way to play it but it's also a huge technical accomplishment. You can separate the two while discussing this port.

DominicanGlory said:
Impressive...but why the hell would you settle for such an inferior version of the game?

Portability or lack of an option. Gyro is also a reason, makes it accessible for some. I would personally never trade the console (60fps and increased FOV) experience for portability.

Guaraná · Jan 16, 2021

DominicanGlory said:
Impressive...but why the hell would you settle for such an inferior version of the game?

I'm playing 4k 144fps with a top of the line mouse and keyboard. i could say the same about every other "crap" console version around, but I know some people just prefer some convenience over fps and Switch is all about playing whenever and wherever you want.

But I guess you know that. So, we know why you wrote what you wrote.

Redbarrel · Jan 16, 2021

When I see some of these recent released games running on the Switch I wonder how many of them would be able to run on the 360/PS3 and how they would perform. The fact that those consoles were able to handle complex games like MGS V, Titanfall, Rise of the Tomb Raider and others while performing decently well still amazes me. I wish instead of having Fifa 25 five years from now releasing on PS4, we had GTA 6, even if it's made by an outsource developer and runs badly, just for the fun of it.

Spine Crawler · Jan 16, 2021

Incredible.. why no physical release though?

Lwill · Jan 16, 2021

Tokyo_Funk said:
According to the DSOGaming, id Tech 7 can push up to ten times the geometric detail that iD Tech 6 could. Which is crazy to think about. My 4x figure was actually nowhere near in the ballpark, but I swear that's what was said in an older interview video.

Edit - Take a look at Digital Foundry's analysis, they got access to wireframes/tools iD used to make the game

Digital Foundry guesses 80-90 Million polys per frame in some cases.

Oh wow! Thanks for the link to this. It's extremely impressive that even the base XB1 and PS4 can run this game as well as they do.

Wander_ · Jan 16, 2021

Redbarrel said:
When I see some of these recent released games running on the Switch I wonder how many of them would be able to run on the 360/PS3 and how they would perform. The fact that those consoles were able to handle complex games like MGS V, Titanfall, Rise of the Tomb Raider and others while performing decently well still amazes me. I wish instead of having Fifa 25 five years from now releasing on PS4, we had GTA 6, even if it's made by an outsource developer and runs badly, just for the fun of it.

none. those platforms struggled running dark souls 1 and skyrim.

Redbarrel · Jan 16, 2021

Wander_ said:
none. those platforms struggled running dark souls 1 and skyrim.

Skyrim was never the gold standard when it comes to performance, but you're right. I simply pointed the question out of curiosity, I know it would be almost impossible to make these games run on those consoles considering how outdated are the tools the developers would have to work with.

mikehaggar · Jan 16, 2021

Tokyo_Funk said:
According to the DSOGaming, id Tech 7 can push up to ten times the geometric detail that iD Tech 6 could. Which is crazy to think about. My 4x figure was actually nowhere near in the ballpark, but I swear that's what was said in an older interview video.

Edit - Take a look at Digital Foundry's analysis, they got access to wireframes/tools iD used to make the game

Digital Foundry guesses 80-90 Million polys per frame in some cases.

That part is a bit misleading I think. I believe the intent was to get the point across that levels/areas are made up of 80-90 million polys. Right after that is mentioned, they go on to talk about the culling system which allows them to use such high poly counts. 80 million polys a frame would be 4.6 billion polys a second at 60 fps. I'm not sure how many gpus on the market today could pull that off, if any. PS4 and Xbox One definitely cannot (not even close).

Bluelote · Jan 16, 2021

it looks fine, a lot less blurry than expected.

Deleted member 87246 · Jan 16, 2021

Dekuman said:
Based on the reviews, suspected the analysis would give it a great score and this video affirms it.

One thing i found a little funny or sad, John had to hold the hands of the keyboard warriors explaining exactly his thinking on this going over it twice in one video for a platform that's been out nearly 4 years, the trolling for console warriors must be getting really bad for the guys at DF

I noticed the same in the Fallen Order video the other day. Very careful wording from John to avoid getting abuse on Twitter. Shameful from warriors...

Deleted member 87246 · Jan 16, 2021

Redbarrel said:
When I see some of these recent released games running on the Switch I wonder how many of them would be able to run on the 360/PS3 and how they would perform. The fact that those consoles were able to handle complex games like MGS V, Titanfall, Rise of the Tomb Raider and others while performing decently well still amazes me. I wish instead of having Fifa 25 five years from now releasing on PS4, we had GTA 6, even if it's made by an outsource developer and runs badly, just for the fun of it.

Memory would be the reason a lot of games would be impossible on last gen. You're going from around 450megabytes of usable ram on PS360 to 3.5gigabytes of usable ram on Switch. Switch ram is also twice the speed although the 360 had an additional 10mb's of extra super fast eram.

The Switch gpu also supports the latest tools and engines until the now ancient gpu architectures of PS360.

AuroraMusisAmica · Jan 16, 2021

What would we say are the SwitchCraft games? Those who have pushed the boundaries and have no business being as good as they are on what's basically a mobile chipset from 2016?

Doom
Doom Eternal
Ori and the Will of the Wisps (Still can't believe it's running at 60fps)
The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Complete Edition

Any others?

Síriocaz · Jan 17, 2021

Redbarrel said:
When I see some of these recent released games running on the Switch I wonder how many of them would be able to run on the 360/PS3 and how they would perform. The fact that those consoles were able to handle complex games like MGS V, Titanfall, Rise of the Tomb Raider and others while performing decently well still amazes me. I wish instead of having Fifa 25 five years from now releasing on PS4, we had GTA 6, even if it's made by an outsource developer and runs badly, just for the fun of it.

Eternal specifically maybe could run on the PS360, but in a small box, running at 15-20 fps, like the classic DOOM ports for consoles. Just a funny thought

AuroraMusisAmica said:
What would we say are the SwitchCraft games? Those who have pushed the boundaries and have no business being as good as they are on what's basically a mobile chipset from 2016?

Doom
Doom Eternal
Ori and the Will of the Wisps (Still can't believe it's running at 60fps)
The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Complete Edition

Any others?

Hellblade if you exclude the fact that the cutscenes are represented in FMVs. It's a well implemented solution, though.

justiceiro · Jan 17, 2021

I like how he found so many ways to not say "its good" without actually calling bad.

I also like they focused on fps in this release.

The port studio did good, bethesda has gone the extra mile, but no matter how you wrap it, this realease should not cost the same of the other version. Anyone paying $60 on it are getting riped ~~and teared~~ off, plain and simple.

Ninjadom · Jan 17, 2021

AuroraMusisAmica said:
What would we say are the SwitchCraft games? Those who have pushed the boundaries and have no business being as good as they are on what's basically a mobile chipset from 2016?

Doom
Doom Eternal
Ori and the Will of the Wisps (Still can't believe it's running at 60fps)
The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Complete Edition

Any others?

Are you talking just ports?

Wander_ · Jan 17, 2021

AuroraMusisAmica said:
What would we say are the SwitchCraft games? Those who have pushed the boundaries and have no business being as good as they are on what's basically a mobile chipset from 2016?

Doom
Doom Eternal
Ori and the Will of the Wisps (Still can't believe it's running at 60fps)
The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Complete Edition

Any others?

xcom 2, divinity 2

Dizzy Ukulele · Jan 17, 2021

It looks good when it hasn't got the XB1X version running next to it. Thank goodness Metroid Prime 4 won't have that to contend with. I see fires here but everything is fine for that game to come out on Switch in 2022 or beyond.

xyla · Jan 17, 2021

AuroraMusisAmica said:
What would we say are the SwitchCraft games? Those who have pushed the boundaries and have no business being as good as they are on what's basically a mobile chipset from 2016?

Doom
Doom Eternal
Ori and the Will of the Wisps (Still can't believe it's running at 60fps)
The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Complete Edition

Any others?

Mortal Kombat 11
Warframe
The Wolfenstein games

FutureLarking · Jan 17, 2021

Neurotic said:
I noticed the same in the Fallen Order video the other day. Very careful wording from John to avoid getting abuse on Twitter. Shameful from warriors...

Honestly though, it's the worst part of the video. He re-explains it about 4 times during the video, and spends literally almost 4 minutes explaining it at the start of the video before even starting the analysis. It was getting a little over the top when I came in for an analysis. Obviously it's free content and I appreciate it, but the script in this one was almost full more of flame shield than actual analysis.

That being said, I've completed Doom, W2, and Wolfenstein Youngblood on the Switch, so I *was* tempted to pick this up on the Switch, but after playing the X1 version on Gamepass... I just didn't find the gameplay in this one fun. I might still pick it up on sale at somepoint and try to blast through it on easy with gyro controls for some mindless fun to try and support this conversion.

AuroraMusisAmica said:
What would we say are the SwitchCraft games? Those who have pushed the boundaries and have no business being as good as they are on what's basically a mobile chipset from 2016?

Heck, the chip was finished in 2014, with first retail products in 2015. Nvidia marketed it at the time as more powerful than an Xbox 360 and I remember thinking that was probably nonsense - especially after the fist Nvidia Shield TV games launched with wobbly framerates everywhere. Took a long while to prove itself!

I'd add Bulletstorm (best IQ of any shooter on the system) and Warframe (also done by Panic Button iirc?)

AmirMoosavi · Jan 17, 2021

Really impressive stuff from Panic Button and nice video as always from John. Regarding the cutscenes, I wonder if there was ever discussion about prerendering them à la the Switch port of Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice? Going for real-time but at 20fps is a bit of an odd choice, perhaps it was less time-consuming than FMV.

LiftGammaGain · Jan 17, 2021

Yeah im close to beat Bulletstorm entirely in handheld and it looks fantastic. No gyro sucks tough.

LiftGammaGain · Jan 17, 2021

AuroraMusisAmica said:
What would we say are the SwitchCraft games? Those who have pushed the boundaries and have no business being as good as they are on what's basically a mobile chipset from 2016?

Doom
Doom Eternal
Ori and the Will of the Wisps (Still can't believe it's running at 60fps)
The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Complete Edition

Any others?

Alien Isolation.
Metro Redux
Diablo 3 (60fps)
Dragon Ball Fighterz.

Reinhardt Schneider · Jan 17, 2021

justiceiro said:
The port studio did good, bethesda has gone the extra mile, but no matter how you wrap it, this realease should not cost the same of the other version. Anyone paying $60 on it are getting riped ~~and teared~~ off, plain and simple.

Why? People worked thir ass off developing this port.

koshiro · Jan 17, 2021

DominicanGlory said:
Impressive...but why the hell would you settle for such an inferior version of the game?

Oh I don't know, maybe you're one of those vast majority of people that don't happen to own a £1k+ gaming PC? Or maybe you want the game portable? Think it through.

Zombegoast · Jan 17, 2021

Redbarrel said:
When I see some of these recent released games running on the Switch I wonder how many of them would be able to run on the 360/PS3 and how they would perform. The fact that those consoles were able to handle complex games like MGS V, Titanfall, Rise of the Tomb Raider and others while performing decently well still amazes me. I wish instead of having Fifa 25 five years from now releasing on PS4, we had GTA 6, even if it's made by an outsource developer and runs badly, just for the fun of it.

First off both systems have 512mb of ram with the Ps3 hurting more because how bad the OS is.

And these systems uses GPUs from 2004-2006 and a lot of games can't even reach HD resolution

Lwill · Jan 17, 2021

mikehaggar said:
That part is a bit misleading I think. I believe the intent was to get the point across that levels/areas are made up of 80-90 million polys. Right after that is mentioned, they go on to talk about the culling system which allows them to use such high poly counts. 80 million polys a frame would be 4.6 billion polys a second at 60 fps. I'm not sure how many gpus on the market today could pull that off, if any. PS4 and Xbox One definitely cannot (not even close).

Oh ok. I checked out the math later and wondered if a few zeros was added. That's almost the 3x the max of what those systems can render if it was only doing that. I believe most PS4 and XB1 games would only clock in at a few million per frame, so it makes much more sense for that 80-90 million polygons stat to reference the entire area.

Speevy · Jan 17, 2021

I think this is very impressive.

Deleted member 55807 · Jan 17, 2021

I kinda get the feeling years of weathering toxic fanboy conversation's getting to John a little - he's pre-emptively defending himself here. I feel sorry for him =( .

Educating new viewers to put analyses like this into perspective is a good thing. Still, hearing John say "this is the worst way to play Doom Eternal" hurts a little as it feels like he's adopting the toxic terminology a little. I'm not sure if that's the way to go.

Stating the obvious: for me, playing this on a big screen and traumatising my wife and kid with gruesome gore and violence is *definitely* the worst way to play! xD

Shibata100 · Jan 17, 2021

DominicanGlory said:
Impressive...but why the hell would you settle for such an inferior version of the game?

So I take it you have the best TV on the market in you're house alongside the biggest and best sound system etc etc. I mean if not then why are you settling for inferior versions??

Puroresu_kid · Jan 17, 2021

You always get some posts on threads like this asking "why settle for the inferior switch version".

This is on gamepass so I'll download on that but if it wasn't I would have no issue buying a switch version over xbox.

It looks like a very good port and for those that like the option of playing it more than justifies it's value.

dadoes · Jan 17, 2021

Doom eternal is impressive, but I wouldn't say it's the most impressive port on the switch.

That title goes to ori and the will of the wisps running at 60fps. That's dedication right there.

YolkFolk · Jan 17, 2021

dadoes said:
Doom eternal is impressive, but I wouldn't say it's the most impressive port on the switch.

That title goes to ori and the will of the wisps running at 60fps. That's dedication right there.

Bit of a difference porting a high end FPS compared to a 2D game though. A lot more work would have gone into getting Doom Eternal across than Ori, which is basically the same game across both platforms.

Equanimity · Jan 17, 2021

AuroraMusisAmica said:
What would we say are the SwitchCraft games? Those who have pushed the boundaries and have no business being as good as they are on what's basically a mobile chipset from 2016?

Doom
Doom Eternal
Ori and the Will of the Wisps (Still can't believe it's running at 60fps)
The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Complete Edition

Any others?

Luigi's Mansion 3.

dadoes · Jan 17, 2021

YolkFolk said:
Bit of a difference porting a high end FPS compared to a 2D game though. A lot more work would have gone into getting Doom Eternal across than Ori, which is basically the same game across both platforms.

I disagree, have you seen the df video about ori on the switch. They revamped their engine to get the switch version running at 60fps.

While the switch version of doom eternal is impressive, most of the work is just dialing down the resolution, textures, effects, and framerate to get it running at an acceptable level on the switch.

I would equate the switch version of doom eternal to running the pc version and setting everything to ultra low settings and then adding some switch specific features such as gyro and button prompts. I'm sure there's more work than that, but panic button didn't necessarily make drastic changes to the id tech 7 engine.

YolkFolk · Jan 17, 2021

dadoes said:
I disagree, have you seen the df video about ori on the switch. They revamped their engine to get the switch version running at 60fps.

While the switch version of doom eternal is impressive, most of the work is just dialing down the resolution, textures, effects, and framerate to get it running at an acceptable level on the switch.

I would equate the switch version of doom eternal to running the pc version and setting everything to ultra low settings and then adding some switch specific features such as gyro and button prompts. I'm sure there's more work than that, but panic button didn't necessarily make drastic changes to the id tech 7 engine.

You couldn't be more wrong on this.

dadoes · Jan 17, 2021

YolkFolk said:
You couldn't be more wrong on this.

Well show me proof and I'll happily agree with you.

JustALurker · Jan 17, 2021

dadoes said:
I disagree, have you seen the df video about ori on the switch. They revamped their engine to get the switch version running at 60fps.

While the switch version of doom eternal is impressive, most of the work is just dialing down the resolution, textures, effects, and framerate to get it running at an acceptable level on the switch.

I would equate the switch version of doom eternal to running the pc version and setting everything to ultra low settings and then adding some switch specific features such as gyro and button prompts. I'm sure there's more work than that, but panic button didn't necessarily make drastic changes to the id tech 7 engine.

To be honest I can't comment on the porting process but if it was as easy as you made it out to be, we'd have more current gen (last gen now I guess) ports on the Switch. Both ports have been done well, with technical feats in their own way.

Lelouch0612 · Jan 17, 2021

Equanimity said:
id Tech 7 is an amazing engine!
As John puts it, Doom Eternal for the Switch is the worst way to play it but it's also a huge technical accomplishment. You can separate the two while discussing this port.

Portability or lack of an option. Gyro is also a reason, makes it accessible for some. I would personally never trade the console (60fps and increased FOV) experience for portability.

So you are basically saying that it is the worst way to play the game For you.

For others, either Gyro or portability can put it up to the best version.

justiceiro said:
I like how he found so many ways to not say "its good" without actually calling bad.

I also like they focused on fps in this release.

The port studio did good, bethesda has gone the extra mile, but no matter how you wrap it, this realease should not cost the same of the other version. Anyone paying $60 on it are getting riped ~~and teared~~ off, plain and simple.

Stupid take. People know what they are getting into by spending 60$ on the game, who are you to say they are ripped ? Value is subjective.

dadoes · Jan 17, 2021

JustALurker said:
To be honest I can't comment on the porting process but if it was as easy as you made it out to be, we'd have more current gen (last gen now I guess) ports on the Switch. Both ports have been done well, with technical feats in their own way.

I would love if panic button did a piece with df explaining the porting process ala ori.

Soapbox Killer · Jan 17, 2021

AuroraMusisAmica said:
What would we say are the SwitchCraft games?

I'm not sure of the origin but "SwitchCraft" is an absolutely fantastic way to describe these games.

I echo that Luigi's Mansion 3 is some next level magic for sure.

Matterhorn · Jan 17, 2021

Very happy to see DF back to their normal coverage. I was definitely getting PS5/XSX coverage fatigue. Would like to see an Immortals video across all consoles.

This video was great though.

justiceiro · Jan 17, 2021

Lelouch0612 said:
Stupid take. People know what they are getting into by spending 60$ on the game, who are you to say they are ripped ? Value is subjective.

So you support microtransactions, rigth? I mean, the value is rigth there for those who want, and nobody is forced to buy.

Reinhardt Schneider said:
Why? People worked thir ass off developing this port.

Because you are paying for a lesser version of the game. Imagine you having to pay the same price for the mobile version of pubg and the pc version.

Also, do you really think the profit from this port is going for the developers instead of the publisher?

Reinhardt Schneider · Jan 17, 2021

justiceiro said:
Because you are paying for a lesser version of the game.

Oh, come the fuck on, this is such a h4rc0r3 gamer mentality it's making me cringe.

I wonder if you feel the same about console versions of games with a PC port.

justiceiro said:
Also, do you really think the profit from this port is going for the developers instead of the publisher?

Probably not, the developers may have been already paid beforehand for the port, but i believe in honoring the developers' work

Digital Foundry: Is Doom Eternal the most ambitious Switch port yet?

Prophet of Truth

Developer at Pixel Arc Studios

One Winged Slayer