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Digital Foundry - Halo Reach PC/Xbox One Review: It's Good - But There Are Issues

Anthony Hopkins

Anthony Hopkins

Banned
Feb 10, 2018
17,534


courtesy of chandoog

chandoog said:
Summary:

The Positives:

- MCC version targets 60 FPS On all platforms (XBO, XBX) and everything animates correctly.
- Can sometimes suffer from Nin-Linear motion in camera pans. Alex goes into great detail on this in the video.
- LoD fade can also occur at lower than 60 FPS.
- Original Reach: 1152x720p with TAA.
- XBO: 1080p, XBX: 2160p with standard post process AA. No TAA.
- PC has 21 : 9 support during game play but cut-scenes draw 16 : 9 pillar boxes.
- All versions have low AF (even PC which can be remedied by forcing AF using your GPU control panel)
- XBX/XBO do not have the "Enhanced" graphics setting from PC so LoD etc are same as original 360 Reach.
- On PC, the Enhanced graphics setting pushes out LoD so you don't have visible fade-in or obvious low LoD objects in distance.
- Real time shadows also benefit from higher resolution.

The Negatives:

- Post Process (SSAO, Bloom, DoF etc) scale with system resolution.
- Higher Resolution can eliminate DOF's artistic effects. Same for SSAO and bloom.
- PC/XBO/XBX's higher resolution turns SSAO nearly invisible at close ranges.
- Bloom also impacted the higher your resolution goes.
- MCC/PC versions cut out Motion Blur completely.
- The audio mixing for guns is also not right. Too muffled and lower in volume with different reverb.
- Some users have also reported crashes.

Performance:

- XBX: By far 60 FPS with only some drops in areas where the game is loading.
- XBS: Same as above but areas with loading or streaming can drop to mid 40's to 60.
- XBX does a good job hitting 60 FPS, XBS has a hard time maintaining it.
- Input latency during co-op also mentioned.
- On PC, most rigs should be able to hit 60 FPS with only some drops at checkpoints.
- At above 60 FPS, all animations still run at 60 FPS
- At 120 FPS the mouse also has non-linear motion problems. You will have better input latency, but it will not be linear/correct.
- The same applies for character animations.
- Alex doesn't recommend playing the game above 60 FPS for now.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
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Detective Pidgey

Detective Pidgey

Alt Account
Banned
Jun 4, 2019
6,255
Wonder what kind of issues. For a change it be nice if a game releases and there just aren't issues to speak of. Especially when it's a game that has been released years ago. But maybe that's one of the reasons for issues.
 
shinobi602

shinobi602

Verified
Oct 24, 2017
8,326
Curious what issues there are. Finished through it on my X yesterday and it was very smooth the whole way through.
 
Cheesy

Cheesy

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,267
The only issues I've had are audio being a bit jank sometimes (like outta sync or some sounds not really playing on occassion) and the matchmaking being broken.
 
dmr87

dmr87

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,186
Sweden
Not playing more until they fix the sound. And if they don't adress the framerate when going above 60 I'll just play at 60.
 
White Glint

White Glint

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,617
Waiting for the audio fix before playing the campaign with friends. We all pre-ordered and are pretty bummed about it.
 
chandoog

chandoog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,071
Summary:

The Positives:

- MCC version targets 60 FPS On all platforms (XBO, XBX) and everything animates correctly.
- Can sometimes suffer from Non-Linear motion in camera pans. Alex goes into great detail on this in the video.
- LoD fade can also occur at lower than 60 FPS.
- Original Reach: 1152x720p with TAA.
- XBO: 1080p, XBX: 2160p with standard post process AA. No TAA.
- PC has 21 : 9 support during game play but cut-scenes draw 16 : 9 pillar boxes.
- All versions have low AF (even PC which can be remedied by forcing AF using your GPU control panel)
- XBX/XBO do not have the "Enhanced" graphics setting from PC so LoD etc are same as original 360 Reach.
- On PC, the Enhanced graphics setting pushes out LoD so you don't have visible fade-in or obvious low LoD objects in distance.
- Real time shadows also benefit from higher resolution.

The Negatives:

- Post Process (SSAO, Bloom, DoF etc) scale with system resolution.
- Higher Resolution can eliminate DOF's artistic effects. Same for SSAO and bloom.
- PC/XBO/XBX's higher resolution turns SSAO nearly invisible at close ranges.
- Bloom also impacted the higher your resolution goes.
- MCC/PC versions cut out Motion Blur completely.
- The audio mixing for guns is also not right. Too muffled and lower in volume with different reverb.
- Some users have also reported crashes.

Performance:

- XBX: By far 60 FPS with only some drops in areas where the game is loading.
- XBS: Same as above but areas with loading or streaming can drop to mid 40's to 60.
- XBX does a good job hitting 60 FPS, XBS has a hard time maintaining it.
- Input latency during co-op also mentioned.
- On PC, most rigs should be able to hit 60 FPS with only some drops at checkpoints.
- At above 60 FPS, all animations still run at 60 FPS
- At 120 FPS the mouse also has non-linear motion problems. You will have better input latency, but it will not be linear/correct.
- The same applies for character animations.
- Alex doesn't recommend playing the game above 60 FPS for now.
 
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Buff Beefbroth

Buff Beefbroth

Chicken Chaser
Member
Apr 12, 2018
3,011
chandoog said:
Summary:

The Positives:

- MCC version targets 60 FPS On all platforms (XBO, XBX) and everything animates correctly.
- Can sometimes suffer from Nin-Linear motion in camera pans. Alex goes into great detail on this in the video.
- LoD fade can also occur at lower than 60 FPS.
- Original Reach: 1152x720p with TAA.
- XBO: 1080p, XBX: 2160p with standard post process AA. No TAA.
- PC has 21 : 9 support during game play but cut-scenes draw 16 : 9 pillar boxes.
- All versions have low AF (even PC which can be remedied by forcing AF using your GPU control panel)
- XBX/XBO do not have the "Enhanced" graphics setting from PC so LoD etc are same as original 360 Reach.
- On PC, the Enhanced graphics setting pushes out LoD so you don't have visible fade-in or obvious low LoD objects in distance.
- Real time shadows also benefit from higher resolution.

The Negatives:

- Post Process (SSAO, Bloom, DoF etc) scale with system resolution.
- Higher Resolution can eliminate DOF's artistic effects. Same for SSAO and bloom.
- PC/XBO/XBX's higher resolution turns SSAO nearly invisible at close ranges.
- Bloom also impacted the higher your resolution goes.
- MCC/PC versions cut out Motion Blur completely.
- The audio mixing for guns is also not right. Too muffled and lower in volume with different reverb.
- Some users have also reported crashes.

Performance:

- XBX: By far 60 FPS with only some drops in areas where the game is loading.
- XBS: Same as above but areas with loading or streaming can drop to mid 40's to 60.
- XBX does a good job hitting 60 FPS, XBS has a hard time maintaining it.
- Input latency during co-op also mentioned.
- On PC, most rigs should be able to hit 60 FPS with only some drops at checkpoints.
- At above 60 FPS, all animations still run at 60 FPS
- At 120 FPS the mouse also has non-linear motion problems. You will have better input latency, but it will not be linear/correct.
- The same applies for character animations.
- Alex doesn't recommend playing the game above 60 FPS for now.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I've noticed all of the XBX issues listed, but the thing that keeps bothering me the most of all of em is the very close, very aggressive, and very checkerboard looking LOD fade.
 
Sotha_Sil

Sotha_Sil

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,054
I'm holding off on the Xbox beta app (PC) until they fix the audio disaster. It otherwise ran very smoothly.
 
TeenageFBI

TeenageFBI

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,225
That bit about post-processing (bloom, DoF, SSAO) being affected by resolution is concerning. I hope 343 gets around to addressing it but I doubt it's high on their list of priorities considering the other issues.

edit: And that would explain why mouse input feels weird. Guess I should lock to 60 FPS.
 
Mars People

Mars People

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Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,181
It still blows mind mind somewhat that there have been no Halo games on PC since Halo 2.
 
shinobi602

shinobi602

Verified
Oct 24, 2017
8,326
napata said:
They messed up the audio for the guns. It's extremely noticeable how off the guns sound compared to the X360 version. They're working on it though.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
upinsmoke said:
Did you have the game muted while you played? The sound is atrocious.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If you're just talking about the gun audio, yeah they did sound a little muffled compared to everything else going on. It didn't really turn me off from playing though.
 
Arkanius

Arkanius

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,144
"THE aUDiO SouNds Fine gUyS, MUst BE yoUR SETUp OR PC!!!!111"

Thanks Digital Foundry for the video.
This port is full of little problems that impact my enjoyment of the game in a bigger way than they should have

The sound is a deal breaker.
 
Lkr

Lkr

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,506
Haven't had any issues playing reach at 160fps. Not sure what the frame rate concerns are
 
Fanto

Fanto

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Oct 25, 2017
11,863
Yeah, definitely noticed the sound issue, and that something felt off when playing it at 120fps. Thanks for the breakdown on that Dictator, makes perfect sense, great video as always!
 
Mullet2000

Mullet2000

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,896
Toronto
Lkr said:
Haven't had any issues playing reach at 160fps. Not sure what the frame rate concerns are
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

In the video they explain it. Animations still update at 60 fps when above 60 fps, and mouse movement does not update linearly above 60 FPS. So aiming will not be smooth when compared to 60.
 
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Nooblet

Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,622
I noticed the lack of motion blur, Reach had radial blur, a great camera motion blur (similar to Halo 3), and a subtle per object motion blur for objects around the outer 50% of the screen space (similar to Gears 3).

I also noticed the muted SSAO. Interesting fact, Reach actually used the huge SSAO halos to its advantage by using it to replace shadow maps for mid/long distance shadows on certain objects, the game doesn't use that many shadow maps but it did make things seem a bit more consistent. Because the halos would be so big that at that distance you couldn't tell if it was SSAO or a shadow map.
 
Wrexis

Wrexis

Member
Nov 4, 2017
21,229
Audio muffing is annoying. I had to put subtitles on to understand what some characters are saying.
 
chandoog

chandoog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,071
Buff Beefbroth said:
I've noticed all of the XBX issues listed, but the thing that keeps bothering me the most of all of em is the very close, very aggressive, and very checkerboard looking LOD fade.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yeah, that is precisely the thing the PC version's "Enhanced" graphics fixes. I checked with it on/off on my PC and when you use the "Original" graphics the pop in is very aggressive and has obvious boxy patterns. Enhanced Graphics On pretty much eliminated any visually obvious pop-in like that.

A bit of a bummer they couldn't get that setting in the X version at least.
 

Deleted member 5334

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Mullet2000 said:
In the video they explain it. Animations still update at 60 fps when above 60 fps, and mouse movement does not update linearly above 60 FPS. Soaiming will not be smooth when compared to 60.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The animation's I can at least understand (and that's likely a limitation when a lot of the animations and motion capture was done, so only so much that can be done there without major overhaul), but I'm surprised about the mouse movement FPS issue, though.
 
Khrol

Khrol

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Oct 28, 2017
4,179
I noticed the muffled sound and was surprised there are no sliders. Not playing until that's fixed
 
Spasm

Spasm

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Nov 16, 2017
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I'm sure co-op's input latency is due to the synchronous-lockstep networking model that all Halo co-ops suffer from. Even Halo 5.
 
Theorry

Theorry

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Oct 27, 2017
60,972
" MCC/PC versions cut out Motion Blur completely."

Not sure why that is negative tho.
 

Deleted member 30077

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Nov 2, 2017
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chandoog said:
The Negatives:

- Post Process (SSAO, Bloom, DoF etc) scale with system resolution.
- Higher Resolution can eliminate DOF's artistic effects. Same for SSAO and bloom.
- PC/XBO/XBX's higher resolution turns SSAO nearly invisible at close ranges.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Could someone explain this to me? I thought it was a good thing when effects scale with res, but clearly not if it turns SSAO invisible?

So it would be bad to downsample this or play it at 4K?
 

Deleted member 4367

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Oct 25, 2017
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I still can't even start the stupid game. It just crashes to the windows store every single time.

I've reinstalled it, updated everything, restarted constantly, run as administrator, everything. It's broken for me.
 

DonnieTC

Member
Apr 10, 2019
2,360
The gun sounds are definitely off. All of them sound so muffled compared to everything else. Stopped playing for now but will jump in when that's fixed. How was that not noticed before release?
 
Pargon

Pargon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,991
Another great video from Dictator. I wish he was at DF back when Dishonored 2 was released, as the high frame rate analysis of Reach was particularly interesting to see.
It sounds like the game is in a pretty rough state right now. Playable at 60 FPS on PC, but not how it should be.

One thing I'd like to point out though:
mcc-crash-a7k5c.jpg


This likely has nothing to do with the game at all.
The D3D device being lost/reset is typically caused by an unstable GPU (likely a bad overclock) as the device will be lost when Windows resets the driver to recover.
Some games may handle a device reset better than others, and I suspect that using exclusive mode rather than borderless mode may play a role too, but crashing in that situation is not something I'd blame the game for.

I wonder if a manual driver reset (WIN+CTRL+SHIFT+B) would also crash the game. Sometimes that will behave differently from a "real" GPU reset though.
You can use a tool like NirSoft's DevManView to fully reset the GPU using this command: DevManView.exe /disable_enable "NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070" (obviously the GPU name must match whatever is in your system).
But again, either of those may behave differently from an actual GPU reset by the system in an attempt to recover.
 

Deleted member 5334

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...

Wait, did they port it to UE4? Huh...

EDIT: Never mind, I see what they did. It's a similar situation with Final Fantasy IX.
 
Nzyme32

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Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,245
Good to confirm our assumptions of the framerate issues are correct. Sucks to have to play the game at 60hz after playing everything else over the past 6 months between 100 and 144hz, as it's a lot more noticeable after that exposure.
Guns feel pretty bad with the audio mix mess, so I'm hoping at least that will be sorted as a priority for everyone
 
Flappy Pannus

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Feb 14, 2019
2,340
Great overview, covers aspects that I haven't seen brought up yet - at least not the reasons. I definitely thought there was no AO whatsoever as I'm playing at 4k, now I know the reason why.

Count me in also on the "provide motion blur as an option" camp, especially if it's done the way Reach has. Hopefully they can fix all these issues.
 
J75

J75

Member
Sep 29, 2018
6,596
Such a shame about the above 60hz frame rate issues. My biggest disappointment with the port so far. Hope its addressed and hope this isn't an issue with the upcoming Halo PC ports.
 
Dead Man Typing

Dead Man Typing

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Oct 27, 2017
5,831
I'm optimistic that most of the issues raised in the video will be fixed.
They are very aware of the audio issues and framerate above 60fps is labelled as an experimental feature.

The netcode issue interests me, as they are testing a new asynchronous model for online co-op in Firefight.
Firefight Matchmaking
One other unique addition to matchmaking for Reach will be Firefight. There will be a small collection of Firefight playlists available which provide the key experiences the mode has to offer. These playlists will benefit from ongoing updates and rotations just like our current PVP playlists do. Firefight matchmaking will be hosted on dedicated servers and use a new asynchronous network model. Co-op Campaigns and Firefight have always run on a synchronous model where clients have to wait for the host to simulate their actions and send them back before they can be observed by the client. This can result in a sense of sluggishness for off-host players. Reach Firefight in MCC will use an async model which should result in a much smoother and more consistent online experience.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

In theory, if they can shift Firefight successfully to a dedicated server asynchronous model, then maybe they could roll out the same improvements to the campaign co-op and maybe even to Halo 1, 2, 3, ODST and 4's online co-op.
Firefight is a much simpler gameplay scenario than campaigns which move through areas and have complex scripting so it makes sense to not over promise on this feature.

From the latest patch notes on the support page:
Co-Op Latency
Co-op campaign play uses P2P networking and we're aware that some players are reporting high latency and a poor experience when playing Campaign together. This is an area the team will continue to monitor but given the complexities of P2P networking and the underlying net code of Reach, the extent to which this issue can be addressed is still TBD.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

TBD indeed, but I live in hope.
I was playing 2 player online co-op earlier and it was flawless for 3 levels and then I started getting some really bad stuttering.
Not sure what changed with the network conditions but it evened out after a few minutes. Anything that can be done to smooth out the campaign co-op and make it consistent for more people on various connection types would be greatly appreciated.
 

Deleted member 4494

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Oct 25, 2017
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Actually really glad I watched this video. The PC version just doesn't look like it's up to the standard Microsoft had set out for themselves -- the > 60 fps mode looks, well, bad, and I really don't like playing PC games these days at just 60 fps. Hopefully they are working on it and will iron it all out in the future, but I'll wait on grabbing it until then.
 
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