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chandoog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,071


Fortunes have been mixed with the PC conversions of Halo Reach and Halo: Combat Evolved - so how does the latest release fare? Alex Battaglia revisits Halo 2, the Anniversary Edition improvements and rates the technical proficiency of this new PC port.

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Not really much to summarize, most of the video is a comparison of the original Halo 2 and the Anniversary upgrade.

PC specifics:
- High frame rate above 60 works fine unlike Reach etc. Some plasma projectiles and hands while reloading animate at 60 FPS even at 120 FPS.
- Connectivity problems for online mode still persist somewhat.
- "Enhanced" graphics only slightly increases shadow resolution and texture resolution (requires level restart)
- 1060 generally performs better than RX580 in most cases.
- Multiple long hitches encountered by DF in the "Delta Halo" level, similar issues encountered in similar areas in XBX as well.
 
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Komo

Info Analyst
Verified
Jan 3, 2019
7,110
I entirely disagree with this H2A has been a piss poor port, and has introduced a shitload of bugs into other games because of it. Halo 3 for some reason is now very much super glitchy after the release of H2A on steam even though the game on Xbox ran just fine, now multiple effects have problems rendering armors will just black out randomly.

H2A also has a fine bug where if you throw a grenade and are looking down there's a good chance anyone else looking down will have the grenade teleport to them.
 

Dictator

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
4,930
Berlin, 'SCHLAND
I entirely disagree with this H2A has been a piss poor port, and has introduced a shitload of bugs into other games because of it. Halo 3 for some reason is now very much super glitchy after the release of H2A on steam even though the game on Xbox ran just fine, now multiple effects have problems rendering armors will just black out randomly.

H2A also has a fine bug where if you throw a grenade and are looking down there's a good chance anyone else looking down will have the grenade teleport to them.
Talking about the single player here in the video ^^ and on PC (Halo 3 is not on PC) - did not mention competitive multiplayer in the review, rather just the rather imperfect Coop.
 

Outlaw Torn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
732
I'm surprised they didn't talk about the Halo 2 Anniversary multiplayer that's on the Halo 4 engine. Its high framerate is worse and has more problems than Reach.
 

exodus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,944
I feel like the biggest upgrade over Halo 2 Vista is actual working mouse controls. The original is probably the worst feeling FPS game I've ever played
 

Wariobenotware

Alt Account
Banned
Apr 2, 2020
1,869
Why is the MCC such a mess? No port has been as good as i would have expected and they are even releasing one game at a time. I really didn't expect so many problems. with these games. Hopefully they fix them before Halo 3 comes over.
 

Gestault

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,356
I've been having a great time with H2A on PC overall, though it's been strictly solo for me. Those newly introduced performance issues while playing on the 1X that are also showing in the PC version are dramatic. There's gotta be a story to this, and I hope they put the time/resources in to resolve it.

What had been polished seems to be degrading, and I'd rather the releases take longer to come out than the state they've been arriving in. This is going back a release, but the state of the closed user-testing builds has seemed below what one would expect. The example that jumps to mind is one of the final beta rounds for HCEA, the controls weren't functional for things like weapon zooming w/ the default KBM setup, because there was a conflict with a vehicle action (the vehicle action itself had to be unbound for zooming to work at all). That's really basic, and it wasn't listed as a known issue when the build came out.
 
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ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
  • better than the vista version
  • updated visuals over H2A
  • audio switches with graphics
  • original halo 2 vista has a shadowless look to the game due to the shadow mapping of the original trailer being removed
  • shadow maps that are there look very diffuse and low res
  • remade H2A has actual shadows, GI, and SSAO
  • parallax occlusion for the ground and bullet holes
  • bloom for sun and plasma effects
  • particle smoke receives light and shadow
  • audio remade by Skywalker Sound
  • WHIP THAT LLAMA
  • gun audio improved
  • environmental audio has more layers to sound more alive
  • frame rate above 60fps actually works!
  • world physics and enemies move at high framerate
  • however plasma projectiles update at 60fps
  • hand animations also update at 60fps
  • online has issues, non-host player has input latency in coop
  • no splitscreen
  • enhanced above XBOX
  • shadowmaps res increased, as well as texture res
  • <10% performance diff at 4K
  • RX 580 20% slower than 1060 at 1440p
  • dips as low as 70 on RX 580
  • as low as 80s on 1060
  • neither can maintain flawless 60fps at 4K, but 1060 better
  • lots of stutter in one level (delta halo), exists on Xbox as well
 

kc44135

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,721
Ohio
Shame they still can't seem to fix all these issues even with the PC release (or introduce new problems with their updates, lol). It should be like the best collection ever, but it just isn't, at least not yet. Also heard from a friend that the Xbox version runs pretty poorly now after recent updates (no longer have my Xbox One X to test it myself, was smooth 60 FPS when I had played it last year). Just really unfortunate all around.
 

Komo

Info Analyst
Verified
Jan 3, 2019
7,110
Talking about the single player here in the video ^^ and on PC (Halo 3 is not on PC) - did not mention competitive multiplayer in the review, rather just the rather imperfect Coop.
Ahh yeah SP is pretty good, and I know lol that's the weird part that Halo 3 for some reason now is having issues after it's update like this even though nothing was changed in it.
 

New002

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,703
Not sure how it is in SP, but at least in MP anyone else finding that areas in shadow are REALLY dark in H2A. I had a friend make that comment as well one day so I was like oh maybe it's not just me, but it can be really tough to see in certain parts of maps. No such issue in Halo 1 or Reach.
 

JahIthBer

Member
Jan 27, 2018
10,378
I wish it had a proper options menu, the shadow resolution looks a bit shit, there is no reason a 1080 Ti couldn't pump up those shadows.
 

Dimajjio

Member
Oct 13, 2019
782
Why is the MCC such a mess? No port has been as good as i would have expected and they are even releasing one game at a time. I really didn't expect so many problems. with these games. Hopefully they fix them before Halo 3 comes over.

Are 343 Industries a bunch of new people dealing with old, unfamiliar code now that Bungie has no input into this conversion? Or is there only a small team of people doing it whilst the main bulk are working on Halo Infinite. It is a bit weird. I really wish there were more behind-the-scenes insight into what goes on during game development/porting. It's just frustrating as the end customer, wondering why these things aren't perfect. (I know code is never 100% perfect but still.)
 

ATOMICJORGE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,431
Halo 2 Anniversary works very smoothly for my PC I can run the game at the following resolutions and framerates all on max settings

H2A campaign remastered graphics at 4K 30FPS
H2A campaign remastered graphics at 1440p capped at 60FPS locked

H2 campaign classic graphics 4K 60FPS capped and locked
H2 Classic multiplayer 4K 60FPS capped and locked

H2A multiplayer 1440p 60FPS capped and locked

All of this on my current rig: GTX 970 EVGA SC (no OC) i7 4790k (no OC) 32GB DDR3 Ram 2400mhz 512gb SSD 1TB HDD and 750w PSU


which I know I need to update but I'm saving money for a completely new build anyway the game runs great on my part
 
Dec 4, 2017
11,481
Brazil
aS3zzvE.png
 

luoapp

Member
Oct 27, 2017
505
Are 343 Industries a bunch of new people dealing with old, unfamiliar code now that Bungie has no input into this conversion? Or is there only a small team of people doing it whilst the main bulk are working on Halo Infinite. It is a bit weird. I really wish there were more behind-the-scenes insight into what goes on during game development/porting. It's just frustrating as the end customer, wondering why these things aren't perfect. (I know code is never 100% perfect but still.)

TBH, I just don't understand the rational behind the whole MCC, especially the continued effort trying to fix it after the initial release. I mean, I can and do appreciate MS and the team's commitment and effort, but not the output. It adds nothing to the prestige of the Halo series. At best, it's a bunch of old games with Halo 4 ( or 5, if I want to be kind) level graphics. If you want to revive the series, either with minimal investment to bring it to "serviceable" level, or going all in like FF7R.
 

zma1013

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,680
Why is the MCC such a mess? No port has been as good as i would have expected and they are even releasing one game at a time. I really didn't expect so many problems. with these games. Hopefully they fix them before Halo 3 comes over.

Programming's hard, especially when you are working with 2 decades worth of game code across multiple platforms.
 

SmartWaffles

Member
Nov 15, 2017
6,244
Shame they still can't seem to fix all these issues even with the PC release (or introduce new problems with their updates, lol). It should be like the best collection ever, but it just isn't, at least not yet. Also heard from a friend that the Xbox version runs pretty poorly now after recent updates (no longer have my Xbox One X to test it myself, was smooth 60 FPS when I had played it last year). Just really unfortunate all around.
The whole collection is just a colossal amount of engineering that is never going to work fully as people expect.
 

infinityBCRT

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,132
Are 343 Industries a bunch of new people dealing with old, unfamiliar code now that Bungie has no input into this conversion? Or is there only a small team of people doing it whilst the main bulk are working on Halo Infinite. It is a bit weird. I really wish there were more behind-the-scenes insight into what goes on during game development/porting. It's just frustrating as the end customer, wondering why these things aren't perfect. (I know code is never 100% perfect but still.)
It's likely both. It's not easy going into old code done by different developers and making it work as expected, especially when the new devs don't know what as expected is. And I'm sure they don't have a massive team working on this. I'm hoping 343 is paying attention to the feedback and going back and fixing things.
 

Dimajjio

Member
Oct 13, 2019
782
Does anyone think that after Halo MCC is done with, Microsoft will get The Coalition to give us a Gears of War collection on PC, perhaps after Gears 6 is done? I might have to pen a tweet to Phil Spencer.
 

jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841
It must be really tough work to get it all working and then some on probably not the biggest budget. I'm glad they are doing it and more people can experience the games. Getting the games out is half the battle, whether they continue to fix things a year or two from now, who knows but it would be great if they did. Would love if they redid Halo CEA with a similar art style to the original as Halo 2A did and even a once over on Halo 3 but unlikely. Saber did good with Halo 2A.
 

Mark It Zero!

Member
Apr 24, 2020
494
Does anyone think that after Halo MCC is done with, Microsoft will get The Coalition to give us a Gears of War collection on PC, perhaps after Gears 6 is done? I might have to pen a tweet to Phil Spencer.
I thought that would be the case when the DX12 remaster of the first Gears came out, but after all these years i'm inclined to say it won't happen unless they decide to do give the same treatment to the other games. A straight port of GoW2/3/Judgment is highly unlikely imo.
 

thepenguin55

Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,798
I'm curious how adamant they'll be about fixing these issues. It seems like they're releasing SOME bug fixes along the way but I wonder if the plan is to mostly just get all of the games out there and then go back and patch each game on both platforms once all the games are out everywhere? It's taken them about 6 months to get Reach, 1, 2 out on PC. How long will it take them to get 3, ODST, 4 on PC? Once Infinite is out will 343 continue to support MCC if it still has issues? As exciting as it was when they announced that they were both going to fix this collection and release it all on PC there's still something of a dark cloud hanging over it. I hope we come out the other side with MCC being the best way to play these games.
 

Gestault

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,356
I'm curious how adamant they'll be about fixing these issues. It seems like they're releasing SOME bug fixes along the way but I wonder if the plan is to mostly just get all of the games out there and then go back and patch each game on both platforms once all the games are out everywhere? It's taken them about 6 months to get Reach, 1, 2 out on PC. How long will it take them to get 3, ODST, 4 on PC? Once Infinite is out will 343 continue to support MCC if it still has issues? As exciting as it was when they announced that they were both going to fix this collection and release it all on PC there's still something of a dark cloud hanging over it. I hope we come out the other side with MCC being the best way to play these games.

I don't think we have any signs to worry about the releases just being dropped. We have like...years of precedent to that effect, and each release has shown strong additional sales on platforms like Steam.
 

thepenguin55

Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,798
I don't think we have any signs to worry about the releases just being dropped. We have like...years of precedent to that effect, and each release has shown strong additional sales on platforms like Steam.

Oh I'm sure. I tend to have a hard time not just focusing on the bad side of things. I bought this collection at launch on X1 and just want it to be good is all :/
I know 343 wants that too but yeah...
 

Gestault

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,356
Oh I'm sure. I tend to have a hard time not just focusing on the bad side of things. I bought this collection at launch on X1 and just want it to be good is all :/
I know 343 wants that too but yeah...

I'm in a similar boat, to be perfectly honest. I'm surprised (and unhappy) with the cases of what was already polished becoming less polished, even in the current console version.
 

Ac30

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,527
London
The campaign so far's awesome and the new audio is so, so much better than the original.

Playing H2 Classic MP is a blast as well, but the teleporting mades and (especially) rockets has resulted in a few TKs and bans...
 

Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,628
Though the game has had lots of problems on many ends (especially online), I kind of feel like the "swap the game when you want" gimmick led to more problems than worth. It basically meant they were essentially running the old game with a new coat of paint and as such modernising that old code to run properly today was a big issue. It might even have been a better idea to fully remake the first two games.

It wouldn't have solved the other issues like connectivity, and the issue with the front end...but it'd have probably solved some issues.
 

Terbinator

Member
Oct 29, 2017
10,226
It's almost like MS actively ignore H3 as its the conscious high-point of the series and don't like reminding folk.
 

zma1013

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,680
The artistic choices for H2A's visuals are so much better than H1A.

Because they stuck closer to it. H1A looks like an amateur texture mod where no care was given to whether or not it retain the original style. When I replay Halo 1, I do it with the old visuals. Those anniversary visuals look that bad.

Also, they can actually screw with the gameplay because some of the art assests do not line up with the geometry so you can throw a grenade near a corner and have it bounce off an invisible wall and kill yourself.
 

brain_stew

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,727
I definitely agree about the graphical upgrade. Comfortably one of the best ever graphical remakes in my book, they did a fantastic job.
 

Ac30

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,527
London
It's almost like MS actively ignore H3 as its the conscious high-point of the series and don't like reminding folk.
H3 really was Bungie going all out

Forge, theatre mode, 4 player co-op, Bungie.net content sharing... the memories
Though the game has had lots of problems on many ends (especially online), I kind of feel like the "swap the game when you want" gimmick led to more problems than worth. It basically meant they were essentially running the old game with a new coat of paint and as such modernising that old code to run properly today was a big issue. It might even have been a better idea to fully remake the first two games.

It wouldn't have solved the other issues like connectivity, and the issue with the front end...but it'd have probably solved some issues.
If they fully remade code-base I would fear it wouldn't feel like H2. I'd forgotten how good it felt to play.
 

Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
23,556
Does anyone think that after Halo MCC is done with, Microsoft will get The Coalition to give us a Gears of War collection on PC, perhaps after Gears 6 is done? I might have to pen a tweet to Phil Spencer.
I'd be happy with just PC ports of 2, 3 and Judgment. Kinda crazy they havent done this yet with how much they've been pushing Gears on PC.
 

Barbarossa

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,267
No splitscreen hurts, again. I don't have faith that the PC version of Infinite will have it either at this rate.
 

FreezePeach

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,811
Im watching this now and really confused over what versions there are. They talk about the original Halo 2, but then they are showing H2 anniversary and this new remade anniversary. I thought MCC was just an upscale of anniversary with better res etc. But the differences are completely different lighting and a fuck ton new details in the environment like foliage etc. IUs the pc version the only one with these remade assets? Seems more than a simple port...Makes me think they are doing the same thing for Halo 3? Why wasnt it done for Reach and Halo 1? Or was it? The descriptors this video uses arent good enough. Should have platform and date next to the releases they are showing on screen.

edit:ok i see they are referring to original halo 2 mode within the anniversary. Showing the old halo 2 on pc confused me.
 
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HTupolev

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,425
Im watching this now and really confused over what versions there are. They talk about the original Halo 2, but then they are showing H2 anniversary and this new remade anniversary. I thought MCC was just an upscale of anniversary with better res etc. But the differences are completely different lighting and a fuck ton new details in the environment like foliage etc. IUs the pc version the only one with these remade assets? Seems more than a simple port...
Halo 2 originally released for original Xbox in 2004.

A port of Halo 2 to Windows Vista was released in 2007.

The Master Chief Collection was launched on (approximately) the 10-year anniversary of Halo 2. It included a new "Anniversary" graphics and audio layer for the Halo 2 campaign, similar to what Halo 1 received for CE Anniversary in 2011. When playing Halo 2 campaign in MCC, the player can freely toggle between the Classic and Anniversary graphics/sound layers.
For Multiplayer, MCC includes both a port of classic Halo 2 MP (without a new graphics/sound layer), and a "Halo 2 Anniversary" multiplayer which is based on the Halo 4 engine (but isn't cross-playable with the MCC Halo 4 port) and includes remakes of some Halo 2 maps.
All of this was present when MCC launched in 2014.

Makes me think they are doing the same thing for Halo 3?
No.

Why wasnt it done for Reach and Halo 1? Or was it?
Comparable treatment was given to CE's campaign in 2011, and this is what was used for CE in the MCC.

edit:ok i see they are referring to original halo 2 mode within the anniversary. Showing the old halo 2 on pc confused me.
Yeah, the video doesn't use OG Xbox Halo 2 footage. I do think Halo 2 has some visual advantages on my oXbox/CRT setup versus MCC on my XB1/LED, but I think it's predominantly an issue of how the game's contrasts map to the display tech. (And some things that are pretty understandable, like when higher resolutions make stuff like the water texture tiling super-obvious.)
There are some explicit graphical quirks with Halo 2 on MCC, but it's less egregious than with the CE port. It's occasionally hilarious, like when the Sun just isn't rendered.
 
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FreezePeach

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,811
Halo 2 originally released for original Xbox in 2004.

A port of Halo 2 to Windows Vista was released in 2007.

The Master Chief Collection was launched on (approximately) the 10-year anniversary of Halo 2. It included a new "Anniversary" graphics and audio layer for the Halo 2 campaign, similar to what Halo 1 received for CE Anniversary in 2011. When playing Halo 2 campaign in MCC, the player can freely toggle between the Classic and Anniversary graphics/sound layers.
For Multiplayer, MCC includes both a port of classic Halo 2 MP (without a new graphics/sound layer), and a "Halo 2 Anniversary" multiplayer which is based on the Halo 4 engine (but isn't cross-playable with the MCC Halo 4 port) and includes remakes of some Halo 2 maps.
All of this was present when MCC launched in 2014.


No.


Comparable treatment was given to CE's campaign in 2011, and this is what was used for CE in the MCC.
Yeah thanks for the rundown. I knew most of it, i just havent played these in so long and forgot what they looked like so for a second i thought the video was saying the new pc port actually redid Anniversary, which was already a remake.
 

Karateka

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,940
These updates are great but the game is still broken ajd they should fix its base. I just beat halo 3 on legendary and it wont give me credit for beating the covenant and so I cant get the achievement.
I had to clear my cache in order to even get sound on halo 2 anniversary.

I only play campaign and get all these glitches so I cant imagine what those who play mp experience.
 

Barrow Roll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
524
Dictator On top of the texture and shadow improvements, I believe that the "Enhanced" setting also affects some of the environmental models.

Original:
mcc-win64-shipping_20spk6f.png


Enhanced:
mcc-win64-shipping_20yukoi.png


Flip back and forth between these two images and you can actually see a fairly pronounced difference between the Pelicans. Less noticeable, but you can also spot differences on the cars to the right.

Original:
mcc-win64-shipping_20wkjki.png


Enhanced:
mcc-win64-shipping_20ljk59.png


Observe the closest tree to the right. On "Enhanced" it is thicker and more detailed. Not sure if this is LOD related, as only that one tree seems to be affected in this set of screenshots.

I also noticed something very peculiar while looking at these screenshots though. Compare the textures of the Battle Rifle and Master Chief in both screenshots labeled "Original" and you'll see that the textures on the Delta Halo screenshot are even lower res. I checked and triple checked to make sure that I wasn't actually on the "Performance" setting, and both screenshots were definitely taken on the "Original" setting. Odd.

Here's some more weirdness. On my girlfriend's PC, the game just refuses to load the higher res textures when using the "Enhanced" setting. Compare this with the "Enhanced" screenshot above—same improved Pelican model and shadows, but the textures are a match for the "Original" screenshot. Both of us have a GTX 1060 GB by the way.
mcc-win64-shipping_20rmjqu.png


One more pair of screenshots, as I've posted enough large screenshots already. I comfortably play H2A at a locked 60 at 2880x1620 (except for the stuttering, which I'll get to in a sec), except when heavy smoke effects are on-screen. This isn't all smoke effects, as the smoke from the fires at the beginning of the Outskirts mission at the crash site don't do this. But the smoke from a damaged vehicle can take a massive hit on your frame rate. This is what it can look like at its worst, as I'm standing right in middle of a wrecked Scorpion:
mcc-win64-shipping_20skj7v.png


Here's a less extreme example, where I'm not standing directly in the thick of it, but it's still doing a number on the framerate.
mcc-win64-shipping_201kkcf.png


Anyways, just a few of my own observations on this port. As for the stutters, they remind me a lot of the shader cache stuttering that's present in the Dolphin Emulator as they seem to clear up completely when replaying a level or even just reverting to your last checkpoint after playing a particular section.