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ss_lemonade

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,659
Because most people don't give a crap about these kinds of things because its effect to their enjoyment of the game is basically zero? This game looks amazing 90+% of the time, it's only a few very particular spots where there are some issues and even then some of those are only if you really obsess about zooming in on/linger at some specific spot, not if you just pass by focusing on what is ahead of you and not some poorly textured structure on the side in the background.
For me at least, I was surprised to see the game looking like this because I was somehow expecting the game to be very competent visually (especially when a lot of early impressions were describing it as just that). Also, you don't even have to stop, zoom and focus to spot the flaws. The issues are pretty much everywhere standing right in front of you because it isn't even just textures that are the problem. Majority of assets I've seen so far are extremely low detail too. It's almost like the game was initially going for a different visual style, like cel shading
 

Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,186
For me at least, I was surprised to see the game looking like this because I was somehow expecting the game to be very competent visually (especially when a lot of early impressions were describing it as just that). Also, you don't even have to stop, zoom and focus to spot the flaws. The issues are pretty much everywhere standing right in front of you because it isn't even just textures that are the problem. Majority of assets I've seen so far are extremely low detail too. It's almost like the game was initially going for a different visual style, like cel shading
That's just hyperbole. A vast majority of assets are perfectly fine.
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,364
y4FTSwI.jpg


If you shrunk the resolution down, removed the main character models and nice lighting, these would almost pass as screenshots for a Vita game. It's both fascinating and unfortunate. I'm enjoying the game, but it sucks that it has to look like this

Loved this bit in Metal Gear Solid 2. Man, PS2 was a beast.
 

dark494

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
4,553
Seattle
So this is still unresolved huh. Reluctantly I'll start it today now that I'm done with P5R, but this just really is disappointing all around.
 

Zem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,971
United Kingdom
I don't think this'll be patched, there's far too many of these things for it to be a bug imo, you see a few screenshots here but these low quality textures are everywhere in-game. Less noticeable in the night time settings but still there.

The whole of chapter 8 looks like a PS3 game (not even hyperbole), it's so fucking blurry in that chapter with all the low quality NPC's and a day time setting.
 

Rickyrozay2o9

Member
Dec 11, 2017
4,364
I've been playing more into the game and ok I understand some of the textures being low quality sure but the ones that are not loading at all should not be happening.
 

th1nk

Member
Nov 6, 2017
6,272
It may sound harsh but the combination of map design (linear pipes all the way) and sometimes REALLY low graphical fidelity mixed with NPC character facial animations from hell make this game appear super wonky to me. You can feel how the developers struggled while playing the game. I am disappointed to say the least, I imagined the quality of chapter 1 could be sustained if the game was split up into multiple parts.
 

dodo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,997
the more i see of this game's weird issues the more it looks like a game that was changed from being fixed-camera to full-3D camera at the last minute
 

Dictator

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
4,931
Berlin, 'SCHLAND
It's funny how the game can look like this

RQFjU7E.png


But if you tilt the camera down in this same place you see this

MLtkvar.png
Suprised you find your first shot ok looking there. To me it looked really obvious like a static Image background. I could even see the internal resolution of the Image on Thin lines.

We did not talk about it in the vid, but I find the use of 2d background Art not visually too good looking.
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,659
Suprised you find your first shot ok looking there. To me it looked really obvious like a static Image background. I could even see the internal resolution of the Image on Thin lines.

We did not talk about it in the vid, but I find the use of 2d background Art not visually too good looking.

I guess it's because there's way worse than that later on in the game lol.

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The skyboxes in the game are obviously flat but the ones used in the slums at least look decent, and aesthetically the overall effect is convincing enough.

I honestly don't understand how this game is struggling with this kind of thing. Is it really bumping against the limit of the PS4's 5GB of available memory?
 

Facism

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,923
I guess it's because there's way worse than that later on in the game lol.

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uWbLpqd.png


mYmAKPz.png


The skyboxes in the game are obviously flat but the ones used in the slums at least look decent, and aesthetically the overall effect is convincing enough.

I honestly don't understand how this game is struggling with this kind of thing. Is it really bumping against the limit of the PS4's 5GB of available memory?

I'm surprised they couldn't match the city vistas of something like KZ: SF 5 years after the fact.
 

Deleted member 15395

Unshakable Resolve
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,145
It's weird square hasn't said anything regarding the texture quality. I'm starting to think this is what it took to get the game out in a reasonable timeframe. It doesn't affect my enjoyment of it that much but its weird...particularly if you compare it to FFXV.
 

Princess Bubblegum

I'll be the one who puts you in the ground.
On Break
Oct 25, 2017
10,309
A Cavern Shaped Like Home
Assuming there aren't glitches aside from the texture pop-in, I have to wonder how much they will even improve the visuals when it inevitably is ported to PC/next-gen hardware. Presumably they are already starting production on the next game.
 

Tyaren

Character Artist
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
24,787
I guess it's because there's way worse than that later on in the game lol.

zygcVgc.png


uWbLpqd.png


mYmAKPz.png


The skyboxes in the game are obviously flat but the ones used in the slums at least look decent, and aesthetically the overall effect is convincing enough.

I honestly don't understand how this game is struggling with this kind of thing. Is it really bumping against the limit of the PS4's 5GB of available memory?

It honestly looks as if they simply ran out of time. They wanted to get the game finally out and just the environments weren't ready yet. Some environments look absolutely gorgeous with every detail polished to the max (demo mission, Shinra Tower...) and some environments had to be left unpolished or outright unfinished.
 

Dizastah

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,124
I don't think this'll be patched, there's far too many of these things for it to be a bug imo, you see a few screenshots here but these low quality textures are everywhere in-game. Less noticeable in the night time settings but still there.

The whole of chapter 8 looks like a PS3 game (not even hyperbole), it's so fucking blurry in that chapter with all the low quality NPC's and a day time setting.
This. I'm in chapter 8 and it's so distractingly bad. I don't think I've seen a AAA title this gen with texture problems like this. It's almost like they made the game with next-gen in mind (or PC) and had to port to PS4. I sincerely hope that these texture issues are resolved with the SSD tech from next-gen.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,460
the skyboxes are less likely to be a memory constraint, and more likely to be a GPU time issue -- if they were right up against the border of 33.333 ms, lowering the resolution on a texture that (depending on the view) can fill up the entire screen is a really good way to quickly gain back some time.

granted, in those cases you'd typically expect that that's _all_ the GPU has to do other Cloud, because the screen is mostly just the one big skybox, but hey, who knows. i've seen stranger things.

(i guess maybe if the skybox was being drawn first the reverse would be true, because you'd draw it all before the occluding geometry is drawn (maybe because that geo has some transparent effects mixed in?!), but again, it's hard to say -- that'd be a pretty old-school way to go about it)
 
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Oct 27, 2017
3,894
ATL
Assuming there aren't glitches aside from the texture pop-in, I have to wonder how much they will even improve the visuals when it inevitably is ported to PC/next-gen hardware. Presumably they are already starting production on the next game.

Well something like this could be helped by having an outside team handle the ports. Nixxus has done a fantastic job porting console games to PC for Square/Eidos. The real hope here though is that the source art for the textures are of a high resolution. I would assume the assets weren't original authored at a low resolution.

Regardless, since Sony has a Year of exclusivity the only hope for seeing the game with better assets will be if there's an update pack for PS5.
 

Pat_DC

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,630
most of the game I have seen so far has been shockingly clear and looks wonderful.
On the other hand I would say the opposite.

There are some great looking spots and chapters, no doubt. And yes there are some chapters where these issues are worse.
But the whole game is filled with really bad textures and assets, it is just worse in some parts.

If you aren't the sort of person that is bothered by it, sweet but if stuff like this stands out to you there is a lot of it.
It might be a bad looking ground texture, low poly asset etc. I also think the npcs really bring the game down, a lot of them look like they belong in another game.
The high quality work in some areas of the games presentation just makes everything else really stand out.
 

ss_lemonade

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,659
That's just hyperbole. A vast majority of assets are perfectly fine.
Yeah, not sure how we're playing the same game but it's easier (and takes no effort at all) to find questionable looking assets than good looking ones in almost every scene.

I'm nearing the end of chapter 15 (the static background there was brutal). Looking forward to the next chapter where I believe the game takes a significant jump up in quality
 

ss_lemonade

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,659
Don't have the game yet but im presuming these bad shots are only a tiny portion of the game? Majority of the game look good?
The extremely blurry textures that don't seem to load doesn't appear often, but majority of the game is littered with low polygon objects and low resolution textures. What's strange is how the game does no effort to mask them. The camera would a lot of times put these objects front and center for you to see
 

srtrestre

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,971
The textures and geometry look horrendously bad sometimes. I can't help but laugh at some parts of the slum.

Edit:

Look at this fucking ground texture, LOOK

OYcTGVQ.jpg
 
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Lump

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,034
In terms of graphics, they didn't make a PS4 game. They made a 50% PS5 game and a 50% PS3 game.
 

Tyaren

Character Artist
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
24,787
Don't have the game yet but im presuming these bad shots are only a tiny portion of the game? Majority of the game look good?

most of the game I have seen so far has been shockingly clear and looks wonderful.

Nah, it's rather the opposite. Early and later areas look phenomenal, much in the middle looks really bad. And it's not just a poor texture or some low polygon model here and there, it is all over the place. It really throws you out of the immersion when you say to yourself every 10 meters or several times during a cutscene: "Yikes... Is that supposed to look like that or is that a bug? D:"
 

gogojira

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,906
Nah, it's rather the opposite. Early and later areas look phenomenal, much in the middle looks really bad. And it's not just a poor texture or some low polygon model here and there, it is all over the place. It really throws you out of the immersion when you say to yourself every 10 meters or several times during a cutscene: "Yikes... Is that supposed to look like that or is that a bug? D:"

Agreed. Aerith's whole area is fucking horrible looking. The slums and piles of garbage look like huge untextured piles of shit. It's absolutely jarring. Probably the most mixed I've ever been on a game's visuals. Sometimes it's beautiful, sometimes it's hilariously awful.
 

Zelas

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,020
most of the game I have seen so far has been shockingly clear and looks wonderful.
I completely agree with this. A few bad textures, yes. A number of 'OK' textures that still look great because of the art direction. And certain areas that rival the greatest look games of all time.
This isnt just some uncommon occurrence. There are environments that you must traverse for hours and you can't go 5 steps without seeing something that seems like it was created for a weaker platform. Even in cutscenes this stuff sticks out. Most NPCs suffer from the same issue.

I think what you guys mean to say is that you just aren't bothered.
 

Leo-Tyrant

Member
Jan 14, 2019
5,095
San Jose, Costa Rica
Suprised you find your first shot ok looking there. To me it looked really obvious like a static Image background. I could even see the internal resolution of the Image on Thin lines.

We did not talk about it in the vid, but I find the use of 2d background Art not visually too good looking.

I dont have hope for the current gen version, but do you think there is hope for a PS5/Series X patch that fixes most of these issues?

Or would Square just increase framerate and some specific textures and leave it like that?
 

trapt777

Member
Oct 25, 2017
552
Chapter 8 was genuinely ugly in a lot of areas. On plenty of occasions I was thinking 'this looks like Team Fortress 2 on low settings' which is bizarre for a AAA game with otherwise such high production values. Some of the sidequest cutscenes in Chapters 3 and 8 are also pretty awful in terms of animation and lip sync.

So I've made it through to Chapter 14 and... it doesn't get any better. I stand by my comments from pre-release, especially in light of the fact that there still hasn't been a patch!

Parts of the slums look like vanilla TF2, a game from 2007, on low settings. It is seriously that bad. It is especially hilarious when a cutscene cuts to some really low quality assets in serious story sequences.
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,659
I dont have hope for the current gen version, but do you think there is hope for a PS5/Series X patch that fixes most of these issues?

Or would Square just increase framerate and some specific textures and leave it like that?
They'd have to redo a large portion of the environments in the game. I don't think this is fixable. It isn't just textures. The Midgar slums, which make up most of the game, are just filled with these low-poly assets and detail. Everywhere you look just looks angular. It's almost like this remake would need a remaster of its own.

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It's nice that it runs at a locked 30fps, but this game isn't particularly future-proofed as it is.
 
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VanDoughnut

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,424
It's pretty common for this game to look rough. I'd say in most places there is something that looks off: either rough looking NPCs that look like they came from the Sims, blurry textures that they will even zoom in on cutscenes, and assets that never quite loaded in.

And not impressed by the general art direction in the environments either.

Besides some nice moments and a few great looking creature designs, I'd say the visuals are disappointing.
 

Leo-Tyrant

Member
Jan 14, 2019
5,095
San Jose, Costa Rica
They'd have to redo a large portion of the environments in the game. I don't think this is fixable. It isn't just textures. The Midgar slums, which make up most of the game, are just filled with these low-poly assets and detail. Everywhere you look just looks angular. It's almost like this remake would need a remaster of its own.

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9WRm4Q9.png


XfdV3TL.png


uIXsjHM.png


y6hRlp4.png


pBiXX1c.png


It's nice that it runs at a locked 30fps, but this game isn't particularly future-proofed as it is.

I'm actually "ok" with the lower poly elements. I'm not ok with the random PS3 textures and aggressive LOD/Popin.I like things to look consistent.

I'm actually hopefull for the next gen patch.
 

ss_lemonade

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,659
I'm actually "ok" with the lower poly elements. I'm not ok with the random PS3 textures and aggressive LOD/Popin.I like things to look consistent.

I'm actually hopefull for the next gen patch.
Don't know if you've noticed, but as pointed out by someone else here, there doesn't even seem to be any LOD transitions happening in this game (something which every modern game I've played has). It's almost like everything is stuck in their lowest LOD model.
 

Dr Pears

Member
Sep 9, 2018
2,673
The game is quite inconsistent. Its very similar to my experience with Gears 5 on base Xbox One. Amazing lighting and character models with very solid performance at 30 fps, but low res textures everywhere in the environment with what seem to be LOD that never loads. Also low poly models everywhere in the environment too.
 

ss_lemonade

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,659
Finally at chapter 16. The cardboard boxes actually look good now with textures and all! Just started but there seems to be more quality texture variety here now and the beginning looked really good (probably because they didn't rely on a static backdrop this time and used what looked like actual geometry)
 

Dice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,365
Canada
Some parts are reeeaally bad but I give them the benefit of the doubt cuz...well, just how much trash there is in the slums. lol
 

Kieli

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,736
Hopefully they redo the static skyboxes with actual rendered landscapes for the PC version and next-gen consoles. I know they said they won't release a separate SKU for the PS5 version, but that doesn't mean they can't patch the PC optimizations over to console.

One other thing I don't see too many people mention is how aggressively they re-use NPC models. I don't blame them, per se. But they could mix things up like using different clothes or alter the heights/proportions of the NPCs. It broke my immersion pretty hard to see the same NPC a couple strides away from each other with the exact same dialogue.
 

matrix-cat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,284
Maybe it's actually an extremely avant-garde and meta-textual commentary on class warfare that the slums were given less development budget than the rich areas of the city.
 

rahji

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,567
Reached chapter 3 last night and yeah it is really distracting with the blocky textures that stick out like blinking Christmas trees. Maybe our brains are made that way to see differences in a pattern.
 

Kindekuma

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,732
This game could use a patch that'll hopefully improve the texture and mesh LOD streaming. It hasn't been much to detract from my enjoyment of the game however, but there are obviously some objects with very low LOD and texture resolutions. Sitting more than 8ft away on a 55" 4K TV with a PS4 Pro has mitigated any aliasing that my eyes would have picked up on if I were any sitting closer to the screen (like on PC). The one example I'd say that I thought was actually real bad was in Chapter 7 looking down at Sector 5 from above. It's painfully obvious that it's a flat texture projected on a plane. Which is a shame because it's a really cool texture of the slums. I'd love to see this game on PC in 2021 with 4K textures and DLSS support as well.

The lighting and material shading of this game is so good that it definitely helps carry a lot of the visual weight. Kind of reminds me of the Fox Engine for MGSV where the non-character models were generally less detailed and poly-heavy but had a phenomenal shading/materials system to help conceal that fact. Use of normals/bump mapping to fake detail that isn't there in the mesh, and use of PBR materials to impact how they receive light.
 

Kindekuma

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,732
What I also appreciate about the game (and I can't believe I'll say this but...) is the lock at 30FPS. Demos while the game was still in development were unlocked and fluctuated between 30-50FPS, but I think capping it in the final build did help lock in the performance in to get those really limited FPS drops during the DF's multi-hour footage recording sessions. With next gen coming maybe we can see about targeting higher to 60 (if patched to support higher framerates). I don't think it would be too unrealistic to expect a near perfect 60 on PS5/XBOsX.