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Digital Foundry: Doom Eternal on Stadia Looks Great - But The Lag is Just Too High
- Thread starter Beer Monkey
- Start date
That is not what the video says. He says "Latecy on Stadia comes in at the 79-100ms range". That's total latency, not additional latency on top of whatever X1X does
I'm really impressed with 1800p/60 on a $129 device.
It's not for me but they seem to be making great progress.
It's not for me but they seem to be making great progress.
Ah, whew, glad to hear. I'm sure you're right and the top videogame tech analysis channel in the world is wrong.
Yeah probably not now, but I assume next gen we will see a bit of a shift. In 10 years the streaming numbers may be not-insignificant and with companies like Google or MS providing a lot of "essential" web services I could see the "non-essential" gaming stuff get throttled big time
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Well let's just see what they have to say about it:
Come on. Read.
The default mouse settings were really weird to play with, but once I adjusted it to match my local install (yeah, I bought a Stadia version as well just to play on break at work,) I haven't had any issues with playing on Nightmare, save for one lag spike that got me killed against the Doom Hunters.
I honestly don't think the tech will ever be there for a game like this.
They can't R&D a new speed of light.
Lower FOV and extremely high input lag. Not worth it at all, basically. Unless you just want to hop on to collect some secrets with the cheats on, such a game can't be played effectively with such limitations.
I'm already seeing people in the Stadia subreddit saying they hope Google update the Stadia hardware this year, to compete with the next-gen consoles. Stadia has been "released" for less than 5 months, and it's already becoming clear even to their subscribers, that they are going to have a problem come this holiday.
I feel like it'd play well on GeForce Now at 120fps (though at only 720p). Too bad Bethesda took their games off the service.
I watched the video, and what they say in the video does not match that text. So one of them is wrong. Which one I do not know.
The tech can't solve for lightspeed, but more and more datacenter infrastructure closer and closer to where people live, can certainly make it "good enough" at some point soon.
I think we are already at the "good enough" stage, when it comes to more inherently laggy feeling games like an Assassin's Creed or something.
I actually think Stadia's underlying tech is more or less fine in most cases. It's literally EVERYTHING ELSE that Google have managed to screw up.
Been saying it since the jump. Cloud gaming will never be future until someone solves latency....or enough people get tricked into being locked into that ecosystem and become accustomed to a shittier experience.
I will never understand how some are incapable of noticing high input lag. It's one of the most frustrating things in all of gaming and very fundamentally changes the experience of playing.
I will never understand how some are incapable of noticing high input lag. It's one of the most frustrating things in all of gaming and very fundamentally changes the experience of playing.
Sorry, I'll stop enjoying the game since this video tells me it doesn't work as well as they think it should.
It's amazing how much Google have effed this up, and do you know what? I'm glad. The last thing we want is for everything to be totally monopolized, especially gaming.
I'd love to know the breakdown for best internet for gaming ISP's in the UK.
Everything that should be high while playing Doom Eternal per user
Settings☑️
Motion Blur☑️
Anti Aliasing☑️
Resolution☑️
Framerate☑️
FOV☑️
Person Playing☑️
Difficulty☑️
Optimism☑️
Spirits☑️
Mick Gordon's OST☑️
Input Lag❌❌❌
Settings☑️
Motion Blur☑️
Anti Aliasing☑️
Resolution☑️
Framerate☑️
FOV☑️
Person Playing☑️
Difficulty☑️
Optimism☑️
Spirits☑️
Mick Gordon's OST☑️
Input Lag❌❌❌
And yet it was pretty much the single showcase at their event and a major launch title before the delay.
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I've got gigabit here in the states so I'm pretty much a 1 percenter, but I sure as fuck don't have a chromecast hooked up via wired ethernet like DF used. How many people are ever going to play that way? Even if they've got better internet than DF used?
(yes, my PCs and my X1X and PS4 Pro *are* hooked up via wired ethernet)
So what they're really saying that 30fps Doom Eternal on Switch > Stadia on your phone for your portable experience 🤔
PS: I have no point I'm making with this statement. It's up to the audience to decide! 😜
PS: I have no point I'm making with this statement. It's up to the audience to decide! 😜
NOT Virgin unfortunately which they're using. They offer the fastest easily accessible connection by far for most properties in the UK (upto 300 or 500 Mbp/s depending on the area), BUT, and a massive BUT, their router that you're forced to use to connect to their cable network uses the Intel Puma 6 CPU that has some serious issues with random and frequent latency spikes (upto every 2 seconds in high-throughput situations). A nonissue for video streaming and web browsing, but bad for gaming.
No choice to use another router as you need their router to connect to their cable network. You can switch it to modem mode and use your own router connected too it, but it's doesn't alleviate the issue because.
If you're in a very recent built, Hyperoptic is the one. Custom built fibre network with 1Gbp/s speed, but most people aren't going to be using that. A slower 68 Mbp/s OpenReach based connection might be better for Stadia to avoid Virgin's bollocksed Superhub 3.
Fwiw, I've been playing Destiny 2 and Division on Stadia and noticed no discernible input lag over Hyperoptic using the stadia controller (which I find awkward and painful to use after about 10 minutes - symmetric low placed sticks are not the one), though the 4K bitrate isn't high enough to avoid small but frequent artefacts. Haven't bothered with Doom yet because I'm waiting for the Switch port 😅
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Playing a super high paced brutal game like eternal with added latency sounds like a fucking nightmare.
I mean, buying a Chromecast is one of the only ways to get into Stadia still and they absolutely recommend wiring it in.
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...nal-stadia-looks-the-part-but-lag-is-too-high
I'm playing games like this at 1080p/120 at this point so that's another whole thing they aren't competing on.
- They are using a GOD tier internet connection for residential
- 79-100ms additional lag over X1X
- Stuttering occurs at times (but rarely) "Despite this, there are still some minor, very infrequent stutters in performance."
- Looks great with some differences
- No film grain effect
- FoV locked at 90
Doom Eternal on Stadia Looks Great - But The Lag is Just Too High
The biggest game release on Stadia these last few months gets a full tech breakdown - Doom Eternal looks stunning on Google's streaming platform. And yet in ...youtu.be
This data is from Digital Foundry. We're are the similar latency comments for Killzone? I would like to see gameplay from the same person playing Killzone SF as well.
Bandwidth is not the most important factor here... I can have 2 game streams with a 50 Mbit without any issues. One on CCU with cable and the other on a MacBook via WiFi... no hiccups or anything.
PS Now has been stuttering a bit recently, which could be due to that but could also be due to additional load. Yesterday was the first time I ever saw PS Now's queueing interface so maybe a lot of people felt that this was a good time to burn their free trial.
Yeah, potentially there's a niche there for a service that allows people to jump into games pretty easily. I don't think that market is well-served by a platform with Stadia's business model though (and also think Stadia's current library isn't well-suited to that kind of gamer). Even if Google managed to move Stadia towards that market though, I think Microsoft and Sony are in a better place to appeal to people who just want to play games
It's 79ms of additional latency. I thought that was extremely clear both from watching the video and from reading the text. They say the display latency is 22ms. If your interpretation were accurate, you'd be claiming that Stadia, with all latency factored in, has ~79ms of latency. That'd be 57ms end-to-end excluding the display. The streaming latency would therefore be somewhere around 7ms. If those were the kind of numbers DF were looking at they'd be saying that Stadia had solved streaming latency forever, because that kind of number would probably be in the same region as (or lower than) the Xbox One X latency.
This was my suspicion. I'm getting Zen in a few months, which comes with a Fritz router - which I gather is rather decent. I'd love to put it through the paces with one of these services but each one of them has something I'm not won over by.
Wait, didn't DF post a video including charts back then saying Stadia has the same or even less lag then an Xbox. The fuck was that all about then?
Still don't think I've seen a positive or optimistic article about Stadia since it entered the wild. What a disaster.
No.
They have done some comparisons where individual games have had lag comparable to (or lower than) Xbox One, in specific circumstances - for example, if a game runs at 30FPS on Xbox One and 60FPS on Stadia, the faster response time due to the higher framerate can partially or entirely mitigate the additional latency. The example you are probably thinking of is Red Dead Redemption 2, where they pointed out that on Stadia, running at 60FPS, it was about 50ms faster than an Xbox One X running at 30FPS (and also showing Stadia at about 30ms slower than the PC version running at 60FPS).
DF have never said that Stadia has lower latency than Xbox One in general, because...it doesn't.
Just like emulators can minimalise lag with rendering few future frames the same could be done on Stadia (and probably that's the way Google wants to achive this "negative lag"). But it's not economically viable right now.
Every Killzone game has been mocked for their latency... do you not remember the 'weighty' jokes?This data is from Digital Foundry. We're are the similar latency comments for Killzone? I would like to see gameplay from the same person playing Killzone SF as well.
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Sure, I have played all of the Killzone games. Killzone 2 had up to 300 ms of latency some times and the gameplay I have seen doesn't look like the control has a life of its own. DF seems to be playing the games on different connections, as I remember that for Red Dead 2, they had 25ms of latency to the server + 3ms to encode and decode the image.
It isn't clear in the video. At no point does he say the 79ms is on top of the X1X. He says:
"Using a 240fps camera we get between a 19 and 24 frame delay on stadia in every test, from trigger pull to muzzle flash. With a 240fps second, that means latency on Stadia comes in within the 79 to 100 millisecond range, averaging in the middle at 91 milliseconds according to these tests."
In the written article, sure, he says the 79ms is additional. Fine. I'll put my hands up and admit I just watched the video. The presentation of the numbers is a bit too compact though, and omits a lot.
For example, he never says what the response time of the X1X actually is. I can see its faster than Stadia, thats not surprising, but I had to count the damn frames myself to see how much Stadia was behind by.
(Stadia is 6-9 frames behind the X1X in case you were wondering).
So the video mixes total frame input delay, with behind-X1X millisecond delay.
Could have been clearer.
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The video very clearly states, while they're showing a side by side video filmed at 240hz, that the Stadia version has 79-100 ms additional latency over the Xbox One X version, with an average of 91ms additional latency. You can see the difference in delay between button press and muzzle flash in the video. It's impossible to miss.
So, no, neither the video nor the article are wrong.