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Railgun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,148
Australia



Much the same story as the VGTech video.

  • 1080p on both Xbox One and PS4 despite power gap
  • 1440p on both Pro and X despite power gap
  • No dynamic resolution
  • 30FPS on all despite 60FPS in other recent cart racers
  • Slightly better AO (though there is still a lot of AO shimmer on X I noticed) and Tesselation on X
  • Solid 30 FPS on all platforms
  • XB1 in four player splitscreen has occasional slight screen tear but is otherwise solid.
  • Switch analysis coming later
 

zombiejames

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,921
Wouldn't the PS4 and Xbone versions being exactly the same be just as much of a "wasted opportunity" and the One X and Pro versions being the same?

Maybe it's just me but I'm picking up this cognitive dissonance when it comes to platform parity with some of these comparisons. The PS4 versions of games should look and/or run better than Xbone versions, but sometimes they don't and I don't hear any complaints (like in this video). Chalk it up to "good optimization" or something like that. But when it's the One X compared to the Pro and the games are the same, it's a problem.
 

Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
23,556
Wouldn't the PS4 and Xbone versions being exactly the same be just as much of a "wasted opportunity" and the One X and Pro versions being the same?

Maybe it's just me but I'm picking up this cognitive dissonance when it comes to platform parity with some of these comparisons. The PS4 versions of games should look and/or run better than Xbone versions, but sometimes they don't and I don't hear any complaints (like in this video). Chalk it up to "good optimization" or something like that. But when it's the One X compared to the Pro and the games are the same, it's a problem.
The power difference between the Pro and the X Is bigger than the difference between the One and the PS4. Hell, often the PS4 version looks and performs better like in Red Dead Redemption 2.
 

bsigg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,543
Waiting for some more options for the enhanced consoles before jumping in.
 

zombiejames

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,921
The power difference between the Pro and the X Is bigger than the difference between the One and the PS4. Hell, often the PS4 version looks and performs better like in Red Dead Redemption 2.

Comparing TFLOP numbers alone, the PS4 is ~33% faster than the Xbone (and ~27% faster than the S) while the One X is ~35% faster than the Pro. The power gaps look pretty similar if you ask me, and then you have to take into consideration things like the performance differences between GDDR5 and DDR3. I don't recall parity between the PS4 and original Xbone ever being called a "wasted opportunity" in a DF video like it is here, though.
 

digitalrelic

Weight Loss Champion 2018: Biggest Change
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,124
Wouldn't the PS4 and Xbone versions being exactly the same be just as much of a "wasted opportunity" and the One X and Pro versions being the same?

Maybe it's just me but I'm picking up this cognitive dissonance when it comes to platform parity with some of these comparisons. The PS4 versions of games should look and/or run better than Xbone versions, but sometimes they don't and I don't hear any complaints (like in this video). Chalk it up to "good optimization" or something like that. But when it's the One X compared to the Pro and the games are the same, it's a problem.

People give less of a shit about the performance of base consoles. Anyone who bought an Xbox One X went out of their way to buy the most powerful hardware on the market. It's entire purpose is to be the console to buy for the best visuals. So when a game doesn't take advantage of that power, there's more people that are disappointed vs someone that owns a base XB1 or PS4.
 

Qudi

Member
Jul 26, 2018
5,318
Aw shoot no mention of load times. Was hoping for a comparison between all consoles. Maybe in the next video.
 
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Railgun

Railgun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,148
Australia
Wouldn't the PS4 and Xbone versions being exactly the same be just as much of a "wasted opportunity" and the One X and Pro versions being the same?

Maybe it's just me but I'm picking up this cognitive dissonance when it comes to platform parity with some of these comparisons. The PS4 versions of games should look and/or run better than Xbone versions, but sometimes they don't and I don't hear any complaints (like in this video). Chalk it up to "good optimization" or something like that. But when it's the One X compared to the Pro and the games are the same, it's a problem.
It is odd they don't mention that, they used to being this up more back in the day with Destiny and Assassins Creed Unity and there used to be huge amounts of controversy around the parity. I'd say there's less outrage in comparison about the X/Pro parity, but you're right no one seems to care about parity on base consoles these days. I assume it's just because those people who were annoyed before now have Enhanced consoles.
 

leng jai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
15,117
It's more like across the board the base consoles seem to be treated like they don't exist anymore especially on enthusiast boards like this. The majority of people who care a lot about performance have moved on to the mid gen refreshes. It's also not an apples to apples comparison. When you buy a console at the start of the gen performance is just one reason whereas with a Pro console it is the main point of it.
 

ShadowFox08

Banned
Nov 25, 2017
3,524
Kind of makes you wonder if the devs did it for the Switch as a lowest common denominator..

Or maybe xbone and PS4 can't do 1080p 60fps, so they just decided to do a solid 30fps instead?
 

RestEerie

Banned
Aug 20, 2018
13,618
People give less of a shit about the performance of base consoles. Anyone who bought an Xbox One X went out of their way to buy the most powerful hardware on the market. It's entire purpose is to be the console to buy for the best visuals. So when a game doesn't take advantage of that power, there's more people that are disappointed vs someone that owns a base XB1 or PS4.

It's a 3rd party console game. Thinking the most powerful console will look drastically better than the rest is a fool's errand.

why haven't most learn from the past generation? History Abhors a Paradox.
 

Doskoi Panda

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,942
Wouldn't the PS4 and Xbone versions being exactly the same be just as much of a "wasted opportunity" and the One X and Pro versions being the same?
I don't really think so. I mean, the implied 'missed opportunity' of the Xbox One X version would be a significant res or framerate boost, in theory.
What would base PS4's missed opportunity be? If not a higher resolution or framerate over the XB1 version, then what?
More grass?

The base PS4 version could have looked better than the base XB1 version, no doubt; but they're both 1080p and neither could go higher on their respective platforms, so given that a framerate or res boost for the PS4 version over the XB1 version was never in the cards, ultimately, the differences there (compared to PS4P -> XB1X) would be less apparent.
 
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Dark1x

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
3,530
Wouldn't the PS4 and Xbone versions being exactly the same be just as much of a "wasted opportunity" and the One X and Pro versions being the same?

Maybe it's just me but I'm picking up this cognitive dissonance when it comes to platform parity with some of these comparisons. The PS4 versions of games should look and/or run better than Xbone versions, but sometimes they don't and I don't hear any complaints (like in this video). Chalk it up to "good optimization" or something like that. But when it's the One X compared to the Pro and the games are the same, it's a problem.
So what else do you think could be done with the PS4 version then?
 

PopsMaellard

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,359
Very disappointing all around if you ask me.

Yup. Pro and X parity, base console parity. Inexplicably. Thirty FPS on all platforms, despite the headroom on Pro and X. No collision online.

I still don't get who this game is for outside of very invested Crash fans. I appreciate that from a mechanical perspective it's a good kart racer, but technically it's riddled with so many poor choices that impact gameplay. So odd in a world where MK8 looks beautiful *and* hits 60.
 

Fafalada

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,065
So what else do you think could be done with the PS4 version then?
The enhanced consoles get the 'why not framerate' complaint all the time(including this very video), but baselining PS4 to the lower end is 'nothing can be done' situation?
Either we accept this is what it is (port that wasn't given the budget, time or manpower to handle 6 SKUs, and gets 2 instead + whatever mess they did to Switch), or point out that all of it is missing the mark.

Given that this presumably skips HDR again as well (which seems to be established standard with Activision's approach to these now), I don't think we need to make excuses here.
 

leng jai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
15,117
Yup. Pro and X parity, base console parity. Inexplicably. Thirty FPS on all platforms, despite the headroom on Pro and X. No collision online.

I still don't get who this game is for outside of very invested Crash fans. I appreciate that from a mechanical perspective it's a good kart racer, but technically it's riddled with so many poor choices that impact gameplay. So odd in a world where MK8 looks beautiful *and* hits 60.

I mean the X version and 30fps is disappointing but essentially calling it a pointless release is nonsense. It's a remake of one of the best kart racers ever with best in class visuals and will likely sell extremely well.
 

digitalrelic

Weight Loss Champion 2018: Biggest Change
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,124
It's a 3rd party console game. Thinking the most powerful console will look drastically better than the rest is a fool's errand.

why haven't most learn from the past generation? History Abhors a Paradox.

Huh? Practically every single AAA 3rd party game on the market looks considerably better on the X vs. the Pro. There's no excuse for both versions of CTR to be 1440p.
 

Dark1x

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
3,530
The enhanced consoles get the 'why not framerate' complaint all the time(including this very video), but baselining PS4 to the lower end is 'nothing can be done' situation?
Either we accept this is what it is (port that wasn't given the budget, time or manpower to handle 6 SKUs, and gets 2 instead + whatever mess they did to Switch), or point out that all of it is missing the mark.

Given that this presumably skips HDR again as well (which seems to be established standard with Activision's approach to these now), I don't think we need to make excuses here.
I haven't played it myself but 60fps seems to be off the table for this game so I could see a higher res on Xbox One X but I'm not sure what we could realistically expect on base PS4 in this specific case.
 

PopsMaellard

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,359
It's for people who like good games.
This forum is such an elitist bubble, it's kinda comical. The overreactions are out of control.

It should run at 60 on the Switch; that base level of performance is such a must for the genre. It's not elitism to question that technical choice. And I'm not saying it should run at 60 *and* look exactly the same as it does in it's current form, but rather that further visual compromises should be made in favor of performance.

I mean the X version and 30fps is disappointing but essentially calling it a pointless release is nonsense. It's a remake of one of the best kart racers ever with best in class visuals and will likely sell extremely well.

I'm not saying that re-releasing CTR is pointless. I loved the original and I'd love to see something like this but with proper performance across all platforms and ideally better optimization on the higher end systems. As good as it looks, I genuinely don't feel it looks as good as MK8 and it performs significantly worse, which wouldn't matter if it wasn't a racing game, but it is.
 

Nekyrrev

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,122
It should run at 60 on the Switch; that base level of performance is such a must for the genre. It's not elitism to question that technical choice. And I'm not saying it should run at 60 *and* look exactly the same as it does in it's current form, but rather that further visual compromises should be made in favor of performance.
60 fps would be better for every game ever. But CTR is beautiful, fast, smooth and very reactive. That's frankly far from a deal-breaker, which is what you were implying (that's what I understood anyway).
The game is still pure joy to play, that doesn't make it a lesser product.
 

plusaflag

User requested ban
Banned
Jan 7, 2019
625
I wish the Switch version was covered too. However, I would understand if it gets its own video. DF might have a lot more to say about it.
 

Kaim Argonar

Member
Dec 8, 2017
2,268
I hope we're able to unlock the framerate on this like we did with N. Sane Trilogy once it hits PC. The game works perfectly at 144fps (and probably 165), I hope this one does too. Altough there's the internal hardlock to 60, the game is smooth.
 

sharkkiee

Member
Aug 6, 2018
146
It's for people who like good games.
This forum is such an elitist bubble, it's kinda comical. The overreactions are out of control.

When I found out the game ran at 30fps went from a buy to no buy...The whole point of the PS4 Pro and the X was games would run better...ridiculous this isn't 60 fps.
 

leng jai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
15,117
It should run at 60 on the Switch; that base level of performance is such a must for the genre. It's not elitism to question that technical choice. And I'm not saying it should run at 60 *and* look exactly the same as it does in it's current form, but rather that further visual compromises should be made in favor of performance.



I'm not saying that re-releasing CTR is pointless. I loved the original and I'd love to see something like this but with proper performance across all platforms and ideally better optimization on the higher end systems. As good as it looks, I genuinely don't feel it looks as good as MK8 and it performs significantly worse, which wouldn't matter if it wasn't a racing game, but it is.

The game is miles ahead of MK8 visually.
 

PopsMaellard

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,359
60 fps would be better for every game ever. But CTR is beautiful, fast, smooth and very reactive. That's frankly far from a deal-breaker, which is what you were implying (that's what I understood anyway).
The game is still pure joy to play, that doesn't make it a lesser product.

I understand the point being made when you say 60 would be better for every game, but I feel like kart racing is one of three genres that absolutely lives and dies by these two metrics. As much as I'm obsessed with performance and input latency, I've played and loved plenty of 30fps console titles, from Forza Horizon to Destiny, that are perfectly fine. That said, I really genuinely feel that racing, fighting, and rhythm games need 60fps.

Where I'm at with CTR, to round this out more on topic, is simply that I obviously and absolutely think the game is beautiful. It's absolutely stunning and really does have an almost CG, filmic look to it as noted in the Digital Foundry video. What I am saying is simply that I think this is a very odd choice for a genre that is intrinsically gameplay focused. It makes much more sense for a game like this to cut back on graphical features (like the incredibly beautiful lighting, motion blur, and tessellation) and use that budget to double the framerate in favor of better gameplay.


It's for people who like good games.
This forum is such an elitist bubble, it's kinda comical. The overreactions are out of control.

On a technical level, it absolutely is; I'm obviously not going to disagree with this. The lighting, motion blur, tessellation, and other effects at play in CTR are stunning and very impressive. That said, Mario Kart 8 is still to this day absolutely one of the best looking games I've ever played, and it was released over 5 years ago on last gen hardware.
 

Atolm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,826
I haven't played it myself but 60fps seems to be off the table for this game so I could see a higher res on Xbox One X but I'm not sure what we could realistically expect on base PS4 in this specific case.

I just don't see any reason for why this couldn't be 60fps. It sounds like the remastered trilogy, when it came to PC there was so much headroom even a 1050Ti managed 60fps maxed at 1080p and we were all like, "wtf, why no 60fps mode on consoles???"
 

Fafalada

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,065
I haven't played it myself but 60fps seems to be off the table for this game
Unless I'm imagining things, DF video listed no Framerate option as one of the complaints for the X.
Is the 'off the table' in context of consoles like it was with Crash remake? (not sure if Spyro PC got 60 or not). Because while I'd buy the 'legacy code' excuse, it clearly wasn't a problem in Crash, it was just a design choice to limit framerate on consoles. And I do think for a kart-racer remake, such choice would be the wrong one (wasn't crazy about Crash/Spyro fps, but it was easier to argue it's not as important there).
 

Nekyrrev

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,122
I understand the point being made when you say 60 would be better for every game, but I feel like kart racing is one of three genres that absolutely lives and dies by these two metrics. As much as I'm obsessed with performance and input latency, I've played and loved plenty of 30fps console titles, from Forza Horizon to Destiny, that are perfectly fine. That said, I really genuinely feel that racing, fighting, and rhythm games need 60fps.

Where I'm at with CTR, to round this out more on topic, is simply that I obviously and absolutely think the game is beautiful. It's absolutely stunning and really does have an almost CG, filmic look to it as noted in the Digital Foundry video. What I am saying is simply that I think this is a very odd choice for a genre that is intrinsically gameplay focused. It makes much more sense for a game like this to cut back on graphical features (like the incredibly beautiful lighting, motion blur, and tessellation) and use that budget to double the framerate in favor of better gameplay.
I understand where you are coming from. I don't share your view, I think there's room for great 30fps racing games (driveclub is another example), but I can respect that and I hope you'll be able to enjoy the game when it'll (probably) release on PC.
 

Dark1x

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
3,530
Unless I'm imagining things, DF video listed no Framerate option as one of the complaints for the X.
Is the 'off the table' in context of consoles like it was with Crash remake? (not sure if Spyro PC got 60 or not). Because while I'd buy the 'legacy code' excuse, it clearly wasn't a problem in Crash, it was just a design choice to limit framerate on consoles. And I do think for a kart-racer remake, such choice would be the wrong one (wasn't crazy about Crash/Spyro fps, but it was easier to argue it's not as important there).
I'm only saying off the table as it seems like, for whatever reason, they were intent on locking to 30. Whether they could go beyond that is unclear but it seems like it wasn't part of the plan from the outside perspective. I think that's a mistake, though, as 60 would help a lot here. Who can say why this decision was made!
 

Adamska

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,042
I still don't get who this game is for outside of very invested Crash fans.
Yeah, and Crash was never even good, right?

I seriously cannot believe people are still arguing about Crash games being of questionable quality after the absolute success of the N.Sane Trilogy. The same goes for CTR, it was always one of the best (if not the best) cart racer around, and seeing how this release is essentially the same great game except with more content and better graphics, then it's most likely going to be praised and well received, and it never needed to hit 60FPS in order to nail the feel of the original, even if the added framerate would be welcome.
 

Zonal Hertz

Banned
Jun 13, 2018
1,079
I seriously cannot believe people are still arguing about Crash games being of questionable quality after the absolute success of the N.Sane Trilogy. The same goes for CTR, it was always one of the best (if not the best) cart racer around, and seeing how this release is essentially the same great game except with more content and better graphics, then it's most likely going to be praised and well received, and it never needed to hit 60FPS in order to nail the feel of the original, even if the added framerate would be welcome.

Crash bandicoot 3d platformers were decent (obviously vastly inferior when compared to mario 64 but luckily for sony a lot of kids like myself didn't have nintendos so it's all they knew). CTR is a similar parallel to Mario Kart but of even lower quality. Even as a kid I knew I was playing a budget kart racer.

I have no issue with people enjoying this CTR remake, but I don't really believe anyone is going to enjoy or purchase this without nostalgia goggles set to maximum setting. Also - fuck nailing the original feeling of the original (again, that's just for the nostalgia junkies). 30 FPS for a remake/remaster of a very basic PS1 kart racer is absolutely unacceptable.
 

Nekyrrev

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,122
CTR is a similar parallel to Mario Kart but of even lower quality. Even as a kid I knew I was playing a budget kart racer.

I have no issue with people enjoying this CTR remake, but I don't really believe anyone is going to enjoy or purchase this without nostalgia goggles set to maximum setting.
The hottest of all takes.
 

Kerotan

Banned
Oct 31, 2018
3,951
Looks sexy. I'll be getting it on the pro digital. Hopefully the ps5 is backwards compatible or they offer an upgrade to 4k 60fps.
 

alexbull_uk

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,923
UK
Crash bandicoot 3d platformers were decent (obviously vastly inferior when compared to mario 64 but luckily for sony a lot of kids like myself didn't have nintendos so it's all they knew). CTR is a similar parallel to Mario Kart but of even lower quality. Even as a kid I knew I was playing a budget kart racer.

I have no issue with people enjoying this CTR remake, but I don't really believe anyone is going to enjoy or purchase this without nostalgia goggles set to maximum setting. Also - fuck nailing the original feeling of the original (again, that's just for the nostalgia junkies). 30 FPS for a remake/remaster of a very basic PS1 kart racer is absolutely unacceptable.

This is legit one of the worst takes I've ever read on this forum and there have been some utter bullshit takes in the past. My god.
 

Smash-It Stan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,270
As usual they play like 3 tracks and make a video. Why has no one talked about the Nitro Kart tracks? No comparisons or anything. We have a ps1 and a ps2 game in there, it'd be nice to see how things changed. Also Inferno Island has big framerate problems, same with the water sections with the turtles in Myster Caves. Unless for some reason my ps4 pro just dies at those tracks for whatever reason.