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Deleted member 18847

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
772
Summing up ray tracing as imperfect reflections is quite reductive. In many scenes the impact of ray tracing is transformative and for many people that is preferable to various other details being of lower fidelity.

Fair enough, I can understand that point of view.
One thing odd I noticed about the RT reflections in puddles for example, if I move forwards then stop, the reflection moves for a moment in the direction I was travelling in after I had stopped moving?

Played a couple hours with the RT mode and the game looks really good. There's some clear alias as with Miles Morales 1440p/60 with RT, but it's a decent comprise because this games looks gorgeous.

It looks a lot softer than Miles does in performance RT mode for some reason.
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,673
The Milky Way
You won't be playing your consoles much in the second half of the generation, will you? :D
Probably not, that's why I have a PC too!

I love the console experience and all things being the same it's where I prefer to play my games, but as soon as we get unlocked framerates, 30fps, dodgy frame pacing etc, well that's when I'd rather play the game on PC. But, jaggies aside, the performance mode runs really well.
 

Son of Sparda

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,616
qLO8qVk.png


9.2TF GPU doing work.
And they made the vanilla Control owners (even those who had all the DLCs) double dip for this if they wanted the next gen upgrade smh
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,673
The Milky Way
Watching the DF video it literally looks like they took the last gen version adjusted the resolutions/framerate and patched in ray tracing. Not really the overhaul they implied they were doing when it got delayed. The overly aggressive LOD i think was to get around streaming limitations of last gen and should have been improved with this version yet it wasnt.

Oh well. I played the gamepass version and enjoyed it. I would probably recommend performance mode for current gen players. I thought the game looked nice even without RT and while 30fps feels smooth they used a very heavy motion blur. Takes a while to get used to and one of my biggest gripes with the visuals.
LoD pop in is a result of GPU limitation - it's literally a slider setting in many PC games. Less geometry on objects in the distance means better performance. Hitman 3 also has lower LoD settings on console. Texture pop in on the other hand is something that the new SSDs address, and that's where the next gen versions of Control have seen a night and day improvement.
 

Pottuvoi

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,065
Fair enough, I can understand that point of view.
One thing odd I noticed about the RT reflections in puddles for example, if I move forwards then stop, the reflection moves for a moment in the direction I was travelling in after I had stopped moving?



It looks a lot softer than Miles does in performance RT mode for some reason.
Miles has Insomniacs excellent temporal upsampling method, so that could be it.
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,074
Barcelona Spain
Not gonna lie, it is a bit disappointing that a last generation game at 30fps and not even all graphical bells and whistles runs "just" in 1440p resolution. It concerns me a bit for upcoming actual current gen games with all graphical bells and whistles.

Remedy always choose effect over resolution on the game they made it was the same since Alan Wake.
 

The Wraith

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,084
I like Ray tracing but not at the expense of frame rate. I can't go back to 30 frames a sec. frame rate is king.
 

bastardly

Member
Nov 8, 2017
10,581
looks pretty solid so far in graphics mode, but performance isnt that far behind tbh, sure its missing a lot of the granular details but i dont think ill miss it much.

it is pretty damn cool to be able to switch modes without reloading though
 

60fps

Banned
Dec 18, 2017
3,492
Y'all get a better game if you just accept 30 fps as the future
There is a reason nobody wants to use phones running at 30Hz/fps. You don't even need fast reflexes to use a phone, but simply navigating menus or typing messages on a tiny phone screen at 30fps looks and feels janky. So why anyone would defend this kind of performance for big 65" screen experiences is beyond me.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,953
Houston
There is a reason nobody wants to use phones running at 30Hz/fps. You don't even need fast reflexes to use a phone, but simply navigating menus or typing messages on a tiny phone screen at 30fps looks and feels janky. So why anyone would defend this kind of performance for big 65" screen experiences is beyond me.
Because you get to play the game and it works and now a days would result to getting the game out sooner if all else being equal
 

Dictator

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
4,931
Berlin, 'SCHLAND
On pc right now, some reflective / shiny surfaces have a "speckled" pattern on them that is very distracting. I first noticed it leaving the office with the lady in it at the main hq area.

So you know what that's about? I played yesterday so it's not a launch thing for sure.
The resolution matters here most - rougher surfaces (like dull hammered metal) at 1 ray per pixel will shimmer a bit in movement at lower resolution. So around sub 1440p. At 1440p and up it should start clearing up.
 

Dirtyshubb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,555
UK
There is a reason nobody wants to use phones running at 30Hz/fps. You don't even need fast reflexes to use a phone, but simply navigating menus or typing messages on a tiny phone screen at 30fps looks and feels janky. So why anyone would defend this kind of performance for big 65" screen experiences is beyond me.
Because there is a difference between using a phone and playing a game?

Like don't get me wrong, a higher framerate can indeed help with games. I'm playing Fortnite at 120fps on my 65" C9 but to act like 30fps is some janky, terrible experience in all cases seems rather silly.

Also, graphical fidelity is more important specifically when you are playing on a 65" TV. More so than a 6" phone.

30fps can be perfectly fine for many games, as long as it's stable and not having often slowdown.
 
Nov 8, 2017
13,110
The resolution matters here most - rougher surfaces (like dull hammered metal) at 1 ray per pixel will shimmer a bit in movement at lower resolution. So around sub 1440p. At 1440p and up it should start clearing up.

I'm at 1440p->4k dlss, but I'll have a look at what it's like on higher res to see if it does clear up (not that I really care, it's not that bad overall!)
 
Nov 8, 2017
13,110
The resolution matters here most - rougher surfaces (like dull hammered metal) at 1 ray per pixel will shimmer a bit in movement at lower resolution. So around sub 1440p. At 1440p and up it should start clearing up.

Followup

This is what I'm seeing:



It does indeed improve at higher resolution, although even at native 4k it's still quite bad looking imo.
 

60fps

Banned
Dec 18, 2017
3,492
Like don't get me wrong, a higher framerate can indeed help with games. I'm playing Fortnite at 120fps on my 65" C9 but to act like 30fps is some janky, terrible experience in all cases seems rather silly.

Also, graphical fidelity is more important specifically when you are playing on a 65" TV. More so than a 6" phone.
Fancy graphics are nice, but a game is not a picture book, it's something you control and play. That's what distinguishes it from a film. It's called gameplay, not gamewatch.

So getting the play aspect, i.e. the input, feel as smooth as possible is obviously the most fundamental aspect of a game. Good that 30fps appears nice and smooth to some folks, but to my eyes it is a janky mess that makes the whole image seem stuttering once it starts to move, and the bigger the screen the worse it becomes. Even the studio head of Demon's Souls Remake called their 30fps mode a "slideshow".

Of course there is a sweet spot between optimal performance and good graphics, but 30fps is not it. If it was, people wouldn't ask for better performance and developers wouldn't go out of their way to offer us "Performance modes" these days.
 

Dirtyshubb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,555
UK
Fancy graphics are nice, but a game is not a picture book, it's something you control and play. That's what distinguishes it from a film. It's called gameplay, not gamewatch.

So getting the play aspect, i.e. the input, feel as smooth as possible is obviously the most fundamental aspect. Of course there is a sweet spot between optimal performance and good graphics, but 30fps is not it. If it was, people wouldn't ask for better performance and developers wouldn't go out of their way to offer us "Performance modes" these days.

Good that 30fps appears nice and smooth to some folks, but to my eyes it is a janky mess that makes the whole image seem stuttering once it starts to move, and the bigger the screen the worse it becomes. Even the studio head of Demon's Souls Remake called their 30fps mode a "slideshow".
To sum up games and simply all about controls is really reductive. Yes controls are of course super important but it's also a visual and audio medium and those aspects can be just as important.

You also say that "if 30fps was enough, people wouldn't ask for more", do you have any factual data to back that up? Of course people want more but that's a vocal minority, most people just want a consistent experience and that can be at 30/60fps depending on the game.

Single player, third person games are perfectly acceptable at 30fps for most people, to act like that is the minority just screams of being blinded by your own bias and being too caught up in the enthusiast bubble.
 

dgrdsv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,885
and when PC fans claim that if you see a lower resolution reflection on a glass at 200% zoom and it's not 120fps, it's "disappointing"
Where did anyone claim anything like that? Feel free to find such claims in all I've said.
And yes, it is disappointing that the consoles which launched less than half a year ago can't handle PC level of graphics from 2019, even in 1440p. This doesn't bode well for the future of this console generation. Without RT it would be a dud on arrival though so at least there's that.
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,673
The Milky Way
Is there any way of stopping the DualSense from vibrating with every footstep? Without turning off the haptics for the rest of the game? It's really annoying.
 

Zedelima

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,718
Watched the video and this this is pretty overblow
Game looks amazing in my vision
 

Flik

Member
Feb 12, 2020
39
Where did anyone claim anything like that? Feel free to find such claims in all I've said.
And yes, it is disappointing that the consoles which launched less than half a year ago can't handle PC level of graphics from 2019, even in 1440p. This doesn't bode well for the future of this console generation. Without RT it would be a dud on arrival though so at least there's that.
Doom and gloom again. Every time this shit happens at the beginning of generation. Consoles will be fine. Xbox 360 released in 2005, and it could't run original Far Cry without severe visual compromises. In 2013 Battlefield IV ran in 900p on Ps4. Consoles and PC are different beasts
 

dgrdsv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,885
Doom and gloom again. Every time this shit happens at the beginning of generation. Consoles will be fine. Xbox 360 released in 2005, and it could't run original Far Cry without severe visual compromises. In 2013 Battlefield IV ran in 900p on Ps4. Consoles and PC are different beasts
Consoles will be fine. Graphics advancements though might be not.
 

Dirtyshubb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,555
UK
Consoles will be fine. Graphics advancements though might be not.
At the start of the PS4 gen we had people constantly talking about how they were shitty laptop tech that was way behind pc and we still saw some super impressive gains by the end of the gen.

Making games takes time, getting used to hardware and adapting builds to their features and specs takes time.

I swear, I started watching more DF style videos to understand things better but most tech discussion here is just people seemingly having more knowledge of the tech involved than me but at the same time not actually knowing how the practical aspects of game making works.
 

snausages

Member
Feb 12, 2018
10,354
Like that door there is another room way later into the game where a wall looks like TV static, 1440p with whatever the highest DLSS setting is. Haven't got a video of it but it looked like the wall was made out of bees lol.

Tbh it happens quite regularly, I only just beat Control yesterday. Whatever it is about some of the more coarse surfaces in the game causes the denoiser or whatever to have some severe disagreements with things.
 

Pharaoh

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,675
Doom and gloom again. Every time this shit happens at the beginning of generation. Consoles will be fine. Xbox 360 released in 2005, and it could't run original Far Cry without severe visual compromises. In 2013 Battlefield IV ran in 900p on Ps4. Consoles and PC are different beasts

Ports of previous gen games are not a good metric to judge a console capabilities. It never was and yet this always happens. People never learn.
 

Mesharey

Member
Dec 7, 2017
2,756
Kuwait
So, it basically has the same performance on Xbox and PS5? That's what I found.

I have the game on both but wonder which version to play.
 
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dgrdsv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,885
At the start of the PS4 gen we had people constantly talking about how they were shitty laptop tech that was way behind pc and we still saw some super impressive gains by the end of the gen.
We also saw the introduction of Pro/XBX which kinda made these impressive gains possible highlighting the fact that these people were in fact right.
 

BeI

Member
Dec 9, 2017
5,980
I think I've found a video of someone playing at similar settings on PC with a normal RTX 2060 6GB:



Once they change the RT preset to medium, it seems to run over 30 fps at 1440p, even without DLSS. Unless I was misreading it.
 

SapientWolf

Member
Nov 6, 2017
6,565
No it doesn't need artificial generated details.
It simply needs a better optimisation or devs who can simply do it better.
But that's just my personal opinion, not a fan of DLSS.


In general, watching the video now and the game looks really soft and blurry. Not having real 4K here doesn't do it any favor. I don't know if I would say that for every game, but in this one I would definitely, easily trade of the ray tracing for better resolution (and maybe higher settings, look at all the low settings, wtf), without even blinking, no brainer.
DLSS is just a better form of temporal AA than what is currently used. I can understand not liking TAA but it's not like you get a choice anymore.
 

digitalrelic

Weight Loss Champion 2018: Biggest Change
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,124
Despite some of it's technical shortcomings on these consoles, the sheer art-direction alone makes this such a gorgeous game. Playing w/ ray tracing on my Series X:

50900928043_aa52261f79_o.png

50900927543_7dc7f7f681_o.png

50901753407_1bacb9a120_o.png
 

digitalrelic

Weight Loss Champion 2018: Biggest Change
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,124
I think I've found a video of someone playing at similar settings on PC with a normal RTX 2060 6GB:



Once they change the RT preset to medium, it seems to run over 30 fps at 1440p, even without DLSS. Unless I was misreading it.

nVidia cards aren't particularly comparable in this specific game, as Control runs way, way better with RT in Control vs AMD.
 

Edge

A King's Landing
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,012
Celle, Germany
Now this is interesting.
I have the PS Plus PS5 version and my purchase from November on Series X and right when I decide to play it on PS5 because of the controller, I find this out.

PS5
PS-App-20210202-015156.jpg


XSX
0228a264-5ce7-4dd7-88d8-f9d857345ed9.png


I knew something was off when I played the PS5 version last night. The black level is completely crushed in comparison to the Xbox version.
And yes, my LG C9 is perfectly calibrated, both consoles run in the same setting and both black level settings on both consoles and TVs are on Low and matching.
I could do direct in-game comparisons but this shows it the best and direct I thought.
 

Dirtyshubb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,555
UK
Now this is interesting.
I have the PS Plus PS5 version and my purchase from November on Series X and right when I decide to play it on PS5 because of the controller, I find this out.

PS5
PS-App-20210202-015156.jpg


XSX
0228a264-5ce7-4dd7-88d8-f9d857345ed9.png


I knew something was off when I played the PS5 version last night. The black level is completely crushed in comparison to the Xbox version.
And yes, my LG C9 is perfectly calibrated, both consoles run in the same setting and both black level settings on both consoles and TVs are on Low and matching.
I could do direct in-game comparisons but this shows it the best and direct I thought.
Do you have HDR on with ps5 or hgig on your c9?

For non HDR games I usually have to turn it off on the ps5 otherwise dark areas are too dark and hgig causes issues with some games for me too.
 

dmix90

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,885
Now this is interesting.
I have the PS Plus PS5 version and my purchase from November on Series X and right when I decide to play it on PS5 because of the controller, I find this out.

PS5
PS-App-20210202-015156.jpg


XSX
0228a264-5ce7-4dd7-88d8-f9d857345ed9.png


I knew something was off when I played the PS5 version last night. The black level is completely crushed in comparison to the Xbox version.
And yes, my LG C9 is perfectly calibrated, both consoles run in the same setting and both black level settings on both consoles and TVs are on Low and matching.
I could do direct in-game comparisons but this shows it the best and direct I thought.
Have you tried to disable system wide HDR on PS5?( it looks terrible btw in most SDR games )... i think i cranked up brightness to 70 something on PS5 and it still looked terrible but i have not tried to disable HDR myself.

But yeah i noticed that this game crushes shadow detail quite a lot... even on Xbox btw. PC version is the only one that looks great on default brightness settings and 2.2 gamma set on display.
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,364
Now this is interesting.
I have the PS Plus PS5 version and my purchase from November on Series X and right when I decide to play it on PS5 because of the controller, I find this out.

PS5
PS-App-20210202-015156.jpg


XSX
0228a264-5ce7-4dd7-88d8-f9d857345ed9.png


I knew something was off when I played the PS5 version last night. The black level is completely crushed in comparison to the Xbox version.
And yes, my LG C9 is perfectly calibrated, both consoles run in the same setting and both black level settings on both consoles and TVs are on Low and matching.
I could do direct in-game comparisons but this shows it the best and direct I thought.

I really noticed my PS5 version feeling very dark. As you said, the blacks felt too black and there were times when I was struggling to see my character against dark areas - something I know wasn't as issue when I played on PS4. Too the point that i raised the brightness setting a good amount and it made it a little washed out overall. By default I could only see the right icon - the left and middle were totally black.

Maybe the gamma's fucked on the PS5 version?