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platocplx

2020 Member Elect
Member
Oct 30, 2017
36,072
Biggest take away from this, is that both PS5/XSX versions are on the whole really solid, with no noticeable issues that are likely to detract much from the overall experience, but that the XSS version is significantly worse graphically speaking. It's not just a lower resolution, but lacks the RT shadows, same level of detail, motion blur etc, and altogether just looks considerably worse.
Yeah the S is prob the real thing to draw from this. One weird thing also is muzzle flashes on PS5 but not on XSX in the helicopter scene not sure if that's a bug. The RT drop is interesting curious to know what causes that on the PS if other scenes are okay.
but I think yet again it shows both systems are gonna have near parity.
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
I'm still tripped out over how close they are. Makes me wonder how much they knew about each other's designs and when.
 

Mecha Meister

Next-Gen Guru
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,802
United Kingdom
This is a fascinating look at how the game looks and performs across the next generation machines!
It's incredible to see 120Hz gaming brought to the mainstream!

Seeing how the Xbox Series X and PS5 fair performance-wise with ray tracing enabled was interesting, in the most demanding scenes there was a performance advantage of around 30% Such as 43 vs 60 fps on the Xbox Series X, possibly hinting at the advantage of the additional ray tracing accelerators on the GPU of the Series X, however there could be many variables at play here which has led to this, including the dynamic resolution scaling.

The Series S missing out on ray tracing is unfortunate as it lacks one of the standout features of the next generation consoles, but this is just one game which has to launch on 6 different consoles, so I can imagine it would have been challenging to balance everything at once, especially during a pandemic.
It will be fascinating to see how all of these consoles fair when more next generation exclusives release, software built from the ground up to take advantage of the new hardware will really give them a chance to shine!

I've seen developers concerned the hardware configuration of the Series S, so rendering resolution aside I wouldn't be surprised if some games are not 1:1 conversions, but the vast majority of multi-platform games are built to scale anyway, especially since most of them are on PC, and PCs have many configurations and the games have a multitude of adjustable graphical settings.

For the Series S, I think its greatest shortcomings performance-wise will be the ram capacity and theoretical teraflops, but its still great to see that this machine isn't artificially confined to 1080p and that 1440p resolutions can be reached in certain circumstances.
Presuming the vast majority of games will be bound by compute performance, something like a 5.28 TF GPU may have been a more feasible configuration for a 1440p Xbox "Series X" if that's what the Xbox team were going for.

Edit: Typo, wrote Series X instead of Series S.

If I were to hazard a guess, the PS5 drops are seem bandwidth related than GPU. There is plethora of alpha effects on screen where the PS5 generally takes a bit of momentary tumble whereas XSX is able to power through with its 560GBps bandwidth (as opposed to PS5's 448GBps). And as is, RT features are bandwidth sensitive as well. I wonder what this signals for future optimizations.

Also:

Y6Na3jo.png


Note the lower LoD models on XSS- The chain gun looks notably less round compared to XSX/PS5. This and other things make me wonder whether feature parity sans resolution is even going to be actually be a thing down the line beyond a rather short sighted marketing point, as more titles shift towards purely next gen development.

The additional bandwidth could definitely be playing a role!
 
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Hey Please

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
22,824
Not America
If I were to hazard a guess, the PS5 drops are seem bandwidth related than GPU. There is plethora of alpha effects on screen where the PS5 generally takes a bit of momentary tumble whereas XSX is able to power through with its 560GBps bandwidth (as opposed to PS5's 448GBps). And as is, RT features are bandwidth sensitive as well. I wonder what this signals for future optimizations.

Also:

Y6Na3jo.png


Note the lower LoD models on XSS- The chain gun looks notably less round compared to XSX/PS5. This and other things make me wonder whether feature parity sans resolution is even going to be actually be a thing down the line beyond a rather short sighted marketing point, as more titles shift towards purely next gen development.
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
Wow 40fps is really bad for a drop.

It is, but the drops during those set pieces only last a second or two before going back to 60fps, which as John puts it, is 99.9% of the time. Looking at the scenes where it drops on PS5, I can't really see anything major going on scene wise, so I wonder if it's something to do with streaming, bandwidth or drawing or something.
 

Simuly

Alt-Account
Banned
Jul 8, 2019
1,281
In wonder what's the issue with Series X at 120 mode again. CPU differences with PS5?
 

Hey Please

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
22,824
Not America
It is, but the drops during those set pieces only last a second or two before going back to 60fps, which as John puts it, is 99.9% of the time. Looking at the scenes where it drops on PS5, I can't really see anything major going on scene wise, so I wonder if it's something to do with streaming, bandwidth or drawing or something.

Technically, he was referring to the non-RT mode. For RT it's 95% of the time, there is parity.

There could be patches down the line to sort out this issue for PS5 (if devs feel it becoming large enough problem that is worthy of their time).
 

Vinc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,387
Dualsense integration seems really great but perf at 60 seem best on Xbox! Decisions, decisions...
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,028
I'm not sure if scam is the right word, but on paper it's a less powerful system than the Xbox One X. Usually with console generations things go forwards, not backwards.


www.tomshardware.com

Xbox Series S Specs: 4 Teraflop GPU, AMD Zen 2 CPU at 3.6 GHz

The Xbox Series S is very similar to the Series X, but the GPU takes a massive power hit.
Different architectures. In most aspects the XSS GPU is more capable than the One X's, and a system is more than just a GPU. For instance the CPU in the XSS is leaps and bounds ahead of the One X.
 
Nov 8, 2017
13,099
Developers have the final word on how to optimize their games for their platform.

Yes and once again I want to point out that 1440p (dipping to 1200p in stressful scenes) means the S has a lot of power to play with if they wanted to drop it below 1080p for an RT mode.

In theory Series S @1080p should be roughly equivalent to XSX @ 1800p.
 

mztik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,258
Tokyo, Japan
I still can't believe there are people who really believed this.

There's a drastic difference here, but as some other poster said, it could've been on the development side due to the many ports for this release.

As for what I've said, I said similar graphical features and frame rate but a much lower resolution. It's feasible. You can see this on Microsoft titles already.
 
Apr 4, 2018
4,509
Vancouver, BC
It would have been nice to see an RT mode on Series S, especially if they were able to dial down the quality a bit to secure framerate, but I think 1440p 60fps on Series S is impressive, and the right move.

120hz wpuld also have been nice on Series S, I'm sure people would have been fine with a dynamic 1440p resolution that dips all the way down to 720P. It feels like developers are just getting a bit gun shy to let Series S drop resolution that much, but that's exactly what the system was designed for. Let people have the same modes, but trade resolution. It's clearly more than capable of doing that.
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
Maybe they haven't entered yet.

It is strange that the DF threads blew up faster when the PS5 some advantages. Maybe the "they" are those that posted there, and not here.

That's not at all surprising though. The Series X has an 18% GPU advantage, and some were theorising even greater multi-platform differences than that, so when the PS5 is matching or even beating it, it's obviously big news, not to mention beyond anyone's expectations.
 
Apr 25, 2018
1,651
Rockwall, Texas
A few casual friends, and my GF all love their Series S. I was impressed to see that Sea of thieves running at 60fps on the S, when my One X is stuck at 30fps. I think it is a very capable and cheap causal machine.

Exactly. You think my kids give a shit? They just like being able to experience a next gen experience and the Series S is a enormous improvement overall compared to the One S and even the X. I'm talking QoL improvements of course. The graphics are good enough for our 1080p tvs upstairs.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,800
Yep I agree, I see them spending lesser time optimizing that system vs the big boys. I

That will depend on its sales. If the console is a hit with mainstream audiences, a not unlikely scenario, they will put a lot of focus on it. In any case though, over time developers will settle on the best combination of performance and visuals for the little guy.
 

Deleted member 11008

User requested account closure
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
6,627
I know the Series S isn't the best looking, but what the fuck are some of you expecting for a $299 console and a cross-gen game?

Just performance parity, which look like this game can achieve with lower resolution and lower graphical effects. If raytracing need be disabled to achieve this then I don't care.
 

ThatNerdGUI

Prophet of Truth
Member
Mar 19, 2020
4,550
Yes and once again I want to point out that 1440p (dipping to 1200p in stressful scenes) means the S has a lot of power to play with if they wanted to drop it below 1080p for an RT mode.

In theory Series S @1080p should be roughly equivalent to XSX @ 1800p.
That most likely not going to happen until MS upscaling solution gets implemented.
 

plagiarize

Eating crackers
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,511
Cape Cod, MA
It would have been nice to see an RT mode on Series S, especially if they were able to dial down the quality a bit to secure framerate, but I think 1440p 60fps on Series S is impressive, and the right move.

120hz wpuld also have been nice on Series S, I'm sure people would have been fine with a dynamic 1440p resolution that dips all the way down to 720P. It feels like developers are just getting a bit gun shy to let Series S drop resolution that much, but that's exactly what the system was designed for. Let people have the same modes, but trade resolution. It's clearly more than capable of doing that.
Yeah. Hopefully post cross gen period we'll see more of what we've seen on Dirt 5 and Watch Dogs and less what we've seen on AC and COD. No reason in a game that gives people options of whether or not to use RT on the high end consoles not to have an option on the Series S. Same for 120hz.

Drop the resolution as much as necessary for S, give it the same modes, and let end users decide which they'd rather have.
 

KORNdog

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
8,001
I honestly struggle to see what the RT is doing in this game most of the time .it's seems super subtle. Like, I know the shadows are more accurate. But its not perceivable enough in normal play for me. And the cut-off distance for the shadows that ARE super noticeable (like the helicopter scenes) make it more of a distraction than something that increases immersion.

I actually think this looks worse than than last years game though tbh.
 
Dec 11, 2017
4,825
There is a stark difference between how Microsoft First Party games look and run on the Series S and how multiplatform games look and run on the Series S.

I expect that out of the like 9 or so SKUs Activision/Ubisoft/etc have to develop, the Series S version is the lowest priority right now. I wonder if that will change a year or two from now.
 
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RedRum

Newbie Paper Plane Pilot
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,364
Just performance parity, which look like this game can achieve with lower resolution and lower graphical effects. If raytracing need be disabled to achieve this then I don't care.

I hear ya! I wouldn't either. I've always preached performance before resolution.
 

DanielG123

Member
Jul 14, 2020
2,490
This is a facinating look at how the game looks and performs across the next generation machines!
It's incredible to see 120Hz gaming brought to the mainstream!

Seeing how the Xbox Series X and PS5 fair performance-wise with ray tracing enabled was interesting, in the most demanding scenes there was a performance advantage of around 30% Such as 43 vs 60 fps on the Xbox Series X, possibily hinting at the advantage of the additional ray tracing accelerators on the GPU of the Series X, however there could be many variables at play here which has lead to this, including the dynamic resolution scaling.

The Series S missing out on ray tracing is unfortunate as it lacks one of the standout features of the next generation consoles, but this is just one game which has to launch on 6 different consoles, so I can imagine it would have been challenging to balance everything at once, especially during a pandemic.
It will be facinating to see how all of these consoles fair when more next generation exclusives release, software built from the ground up to take advantage of the new hardware will really give them a chance to shine!

I've seen developers concerned the hardware configuration of the Series X, so rendering resolution aside I wouldn't be surprised if some games are not 1:1 conversions, but the vast majority of multi-platform games are built to scale anyway, especially since most of them are on PC, and PCs have many different configurations and the games have a multitude of adjustable graphical settings.

For the Series S, I think its greatest shortcomings performance-wise will be the ram capacity and theorhetical teraflops, but its still great to see that this machine isn't artificially confined to 1080p and that 1440p resolutions can be reached in certain circumstances.
Presuming the vast majority of game will be bound by compute performance, something like a 5.28 TF GPU may have been a more feasible configuration for a 1440p Xbox "Series X" if that's what the Xbox team were going for.
Can I just say what a great and well balanced take this is? Very well said!
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,028
There's a drastic difference here, but as some other poster said, it could've been on the development side due to the many ports for this release.

As for what I've said, I said similar graphical features and frame rate but a much lower resolution. It's feasible. You can see this on Microsoft titles already.
Don't forget Watch Dogs which has RT on S.
 

plagiarize

Eating crackers
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,511
Cape Cod, MA
There is a stark difference between how Microsoft First Party games look and run on the Series S and how multiplatform games run on the Series S.

I expect that out of the like the 9 or so SKUs Activision/Ubisoft/etc have to develop, the Series S version is the lowest priority right now.
Microsoft are good at hitting their performance targets. Generally first party games on One / One S hit 1080p last gen, for example. It's really more about dev priorities and how much they're prepared to tune for the Series S.

Right now the Series S userbase is unquestionably the smallest userbase of any platform these games are launching on, and they're launching on a *lot* of platforms. So it's getting the least development focus and that's understandable. Like I said in my last post, hopefully once we're out of the launch period we see this happen a lot less.
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,487
Lack of raytraced shadows is pretty noticeable. But otherwise Series S looks pretty good to me. Maybe as the gen goes on we'll start to see more games use the features. I don't think it's bad at all though.
 
Apr 4, 2018
4,509
Vancouver, BC
Yeah. Hopefully post cross gen period we'll see more of what we've seen on Dirt 5 and Watch Dogs and less what we've seen on AC and COD. No reason in a game that gives people options of whether or not to use RT on the high end consoles not to have an option on the Series S. Same for 120hz.

Drop the resolution as much as necessary for S, give it the same modes, and let end users decide which they'd rather have.

Exactly.

I'm hopeful that as more Series S consoles sell, developers will prioritize it more. I can cut them some slack for launch titles, but hopefully over the next couple of years we see Series S given feature parity as much as possible.

It's clearly a very capable console, but definitely seems to be getting depriorotized right now on certain games.
 

Twenty7kvn

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,749
Yep I agree, I see them spending lesser time optimizing that system vs the big boys. I knew when MS said that it really wasn't true in a lot of scenarios.
I think it's way too early to fully judge the Series S, these are launch, cross-gen games and we're still in the middle of a pandemic we need to give it some time.
 

ioriyagami

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,364
Dualsense integration seems really great but perf at 60 seem best on Xbox! Decisions, decisions...

It drops frames very rarely and the root cause might be patched by software (as the drops happen semi randomly, they are most likely caused by performance bugs). Go with any version and you won't regret anything. I mean, look at this table to see a better picture of how similar the two versions are in performance: https://www.resetera.com/threads/vg...-s-frame-rate-comparison.326939/post-51644294
 

bob100

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,725
Seeing how the Series S has performed i'd be really interested to see how it compares with the One X
 

plagiarize

Eating crackers
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,511
Cape Cod, MA
Exactly.

I'm hopeful that as more Series S consoles sell, developers will prioritize it more. I can cut them some slack for launch titles, but hopefully over the next couple of years we see Series S given feature parity as much as possible.

It's clearly a very capable console, but definitely seems to be getting depriorotized right now on certain games.
Right. Based on what MS have said, there's a lot more Series X consoles out there at launch than there are Series S, which they expect to do better as time goes on. It's a small userbase for launch. Also, the dev tools weren't certified for Series S until a good while after they were certified for Series X, so devs have had less time to optimize for it.

Watch Dogs ray tracing caps out at 1080p on Series S with dips to 900p @ 30fps. It's just a question of if devs want to do it.
I'm sure this looks great on a 1080p TV. My main issue with how Watch Dogs looks is the lack of motion blur, which makes the 30 fps feel way worse than it does on something like Control or Spider-Man, but that's an issue across all platforms.