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Dictator

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
4,930
Berlin, 'SCHLAND
But how do you know it's 100% GPU limited on PS5? Why should it be 100% GPU limited? They are using RT shadows on PS5 (by the way the RT shadows on PS5 are of higher quality of those seen on XSX, the difference is very noticeable), shouldn't RT be CPU demanding? And often even in the case of benchs with GPU limited scenes, we still often see games performing a bit different when using different CPUs.
I can determine that it is GPU limited on PS5 because when DRS enables and the Bug is not present that keeps it at native 4K, then the cutscene runs every section dramatically better. If it were not GPU limited but CPU limited, then turning DRS on in that cutscene on PS5 without the Bug would not rqise performance universally. You are looking for a "gotchya" here that does not exist.
 

Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,621
Gtx 750 ti is often compared to XBO's gpu
This how it's performaning in modern titles

And here is Gtx 760 vs PS4

It's not a myth

It's more down to RAM and console ver being able to use lower than low settings than anything else, not the case with PC hardware in current comparison.
Maxwell also has the unfortunate side effect of being that line of GPU that was followed by a significant architectural change, thereby lacking features that were suited for PS4/Xbone era rendering. In comparison Turing already has had support for features that are going to be widely used in coming years since 2018.
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,074
Barcelona Spain
It can be extremely signifikant for Performance - I will try and dig up an example if I can tomorrow.

It is a gpu limited scene on PS5, and I am testing the GPU, hence why keeping the GPU free of Limits with a 10900K is imperative . That is the Status quo and methodology of checking GPU Performance which is what the video focused on primarily.

Not only this the scene is particles heavy. This is signifiant for sure. This 100% sure like you said.
 
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icecold1983

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
4,243
It's more down to RAM and console ver being able to use lower than low settings than anything else, not the case with PC hardware in current comparison.
Maxwell also has the unfortunate side effect of being that line of GPU that was followed by a significant architectural change, thereby lacking features that were suited for PS4/Xbone era rendering. In comparison Turing already has had support for features that are going to be widely used in coming years since 2018.
Maxwell is almost 3 years newer than the graphics architecture in the consoles. There arent any features it lacks compared to PS4/Xbone. It's also not down to lower settings as in most of the games tested there, the settings used produce a much lower quality image than on consoles.
 

dgrdsv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,843
Gtx 750 ti is often compared to XBO's gpu
This how it's performaning in modern titles

And here is Gtx 760 vs PS4

It's not a myth

That's not a proper comparison since the settings are not equalized. As I've said, it's a pity that nobody did such a proper comparison, looking at the difference between early and late gen titles.
It would also be better to use an AMD GPU for this to try and avoid the results of poor rendering optimizations skewing the outcome on PC versions.
Something like 7770 or possibly a heavily overclocked 7750 since these had 4GB VRAM versions at one point. Or maybe a downclocked 7970 with 6GBs, to completely remove the possibility of VRAM limitation.
 

Dictator

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
4,930
Berlin, 'SCHLAND
The VRAM limitation of 2 GB is going to be a big performance or quality settings problem for a GPU with similar compute capability as the PS4. We know developers used 3-3.5 GB for graphics related processes on the PS5: especially as the generation went on.
4GB GPU would be the better equivalent to run against such a console in like for like settings.
 

Dictator

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
4,930
Berlin, 'SCHLAND
As I said above thats why he tests at settings well below the consoles.
We are not looking at par then though - and just because texture settings can be degraded, does not mean they can be degraded enough to fit comfortably without problems into 2 GB of VRAM. It really needs to be a 3-4 GB GPU for such testing to be valid in my eyes. There are those GPUs that exist - we own a few of them.
 

dlauv

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,509
PS5 is performing about where we thought it would for months now, lol. But especially given how GPUs cost now it's still highlighting amazing value.
 

dmix90

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,884
So the pretty obvious question is... what are % differences between Ultra-High-Medium-Low particles effects setting on PC? If delta is similar between them( like for example 10% increase in performance compared to higher setting at each or most steps ) then we can mentally slot in an imaginary Ultra Low setting from PS5 there and add this percentage difference as a boost to PC GPUs.

In any case it seems that PS5 is dangerously close to RTX 2080ti/3070 and the generation is barely started...
 

icecold1983

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
4,243
We are not looking at par then though - and just because texture settings can be degraded, does not mean they can be degraded enough to fit comfortably without problems into 2 GB of VRAM. It really needs to be a 3-4 GB GPU for such testing to be valid in my eyes. There are those GPUs that exist - we own a few of them.
The statistics and frametimes in his videos show no evidence that performance would improve by a meaningful degree to come close to matching a PS4 with more vram.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,800


The GPU has a 33% core overclock and 12.5% memory overclock.


Since the 7850 equivalent newer cards are DX12 and compatible with these newer games without hacks and exist in 4GB variants, why not do a comparison with them? For example, the R7 370 has a 4GB version and fully supports DX12, while being just a tiny bit faster than a 7850. Here's how it fares in modern games:

www.techpowerup.com

AMD Radeon R7 370 Specs

AMD Trinidad, 975 MHz, 1024 Cores, 64 TMUs, 32 ROPs, 2048 MB GDDR5, 1400 MHz, 256 bit

 

arsene_P5

Prophet of Regret
Member
Apr 17, 2020
15,438
PS5 and XSX future is very very bright. 60FPS games are here to stay. And in a couple of years we'll be comparing PS5 vs RTX4060-4070 and seeing that it's still on par because developers will finally learn to fully utilize these consoles. I can't wait for upcoming masterpieces from Guerilla Games, Naughty Dog, Playground Games.
Indeed and both companies made a very good job. I remember when PS4 and Xbox One released. Those were much worse in comparison, especially the Xbox Ones. But this gen both companies focused on gaming and AMD, thanks to the hardware God, has a capable CPU ready. Jaguars were shit in 2013 and beyond. The future of these consoles is very bright and I look forward to years ahead.
Disappointing that the PS5 mostly uses medium-low settings. I don't think the video supports the "PS5 is a beast" reactions in this thread.
I think some of those users are overreacting, however I am still very impressed by the PS5 result. Context is important and that's similar to the switch with it's mobile form factor really. Sure, the settings switch games use aren't impressive in itself, but considering the form factor, then these "impossible" ports are really stunning.

I feel similar with PS5 and Xbox Series X. Sure, in itself the settings aren't as impressive compared to PC. But when you consider that the machine costs 500$, then it is very impressive and both consoles punch above their weights. Try building a 500$ PC yourself and see how it competes against the consoles. Context is always important.
 

icecold1983

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
4,243
Since the 7850 equivalent newer cards are DX12 and compatible with these newer games without hacks and exist in 4GB variants, why not do a comparison with them? For example, the R7 370 has a 4GB version and fully supports DX12, while being just a tiny bit faster than a 7850. Here's how it fares in modern games:

www.techpowerup.com

AMD Radeon R7 370 Specs

AMD Trinidad, 975 MHz, 1024 Cores, 64 TMUs, 32 ROPs, 2048 MB GDDR5, 1400 MHz, 256 bit


It isnt any more DX12 compatible than a 7850. The only game that required a hack to run was Death Stranding. The 370 would require the same hack to run as its the exact same GPU.
 

ThatNerdGUI

Prophet of Truth
Member
Mar 19, 2020
4,549
I must have watched a different video cause in the one I saw PS5 was running between 2070 Super and 3070 with the latter two running at a higher quality settings.
Which means that at similar settings it would probably be around 2070 Super, which is essentially a 2080, which is kind of in line with a general expectation from PS5 and XSX.
What's "wow"?
Exactly this.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,800
It isnt my channel. Just one I have seen before. This is the only video I could find of the 4gb version on HZD. Still a disaster.



I can imagine Horizon being a mess because it launched in a bad state. Did you see the video I posted? It has the R7 370 4GB running 12 games and comfortably achieving ballpark console performance.

Anyway, this is off topic so we should probably drop it. If you want to make a new thread on this topic I will gladly continue there.
 

Serious Sam

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,354
User Banned (1 Month): Platform Warring; Multiple Prior Bans for Antagonizing and Hostility
Hah all that energy wasted in this thread to discredit PS5 power. The salty tears of PC gamers. It's glorious. It will be even more funny when the next big PS5 exclusive comes out.
 

Roytheone

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,138
Consoles provide better price /performance for the hardware and pc provides more flexibility and cheaper digital games and free online. This has always been the case.
 

uptownsoul

Self-requested ban
Banned
Dec 6, 2017
112
Not with $70 PS5 games, it isn't.

The Series X is a far better value among consoles.

I see you're factoring in things other than the hardware itself in your comparison.

The vast majority of console gamers will be playing multiplats and those will be the exact same price.

And as far as I can tell the $100 difference between the Series X and PS5 digital isn't showing $100 worth of difference in the Digital Foundry results.
 

CTRON

Member
Jul 16, 2020
645
I must have watched a different video cause in the one I saw PS5 was running between 2070 Super and 3070 with the latter two running at a higher quality settings.

While I agree the PC alpha effects running at a higher res means this isn't a 1:1 comparison, strictly based on the benchmark stats in the video, "running between 2070 Super and 3070" isn't really accurate. Performance on the PS5 averages closer to the 3070.

Which means that at similar settings it would probably be around 2070 Super, which is essentially a 2080, which is kind of in line with a general expectation from PS5 and XSX.
What's "wow"?

I thought the 2080 comparison was wrt rasterization only. With Nvidia cards readily outperforming AMD ones in RT scenarios, I expected the PS5 would fall in the 2060 or 2070 ballpark maybe.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,618
Spain
Wow at all the salt here... It's very clear that, as long as VRAM is enough, PC graphics cards perform the same as their console equivalents, and that's normal... Because it's literally the same hardware running the same code! The whole "consoles somehow get magically better than PCs as the generation goes along" is usually nonsense, because people compare apples with oranges all the time.

With that said, the next generation consoles are crazy powerful for the price, especially if ray traced effects are kept to a reasonable level. Nvidia cards obviously have a huge performance advantage in ray traced effects compared to RDNA 2, but with low sample counts and things like that you can get very good results.
While I agree the PC alpha effects running at a higher res means this isn't a 1:1 comparison, strictly based on the benchmark stats in the video, "running between 2070 Super and 3070" isn't really accurate. Performance on the PS5 averages closer to the 3070.



I thought the 2080 comparison was wrt rasterization only. With Nvidia cards readily outperforming AMD ones in RT scenarios, I thought the PS5 would fall in the 2060 or 2070 ballpark maybe.
In games that are heavier in RT effects, for instance Watch Dogs Legion, the new consoles were performing to the same level of a 2060 Super IIRC. There was another Digital Foundry video about that.
 

arsene_P5

Prophet of Regret
Member
Apr 17, 2020
15,438
Hah all that energy wasted in this thread to discredit PS5 power. The salty tears of PC gamers. It's glorious. It will be even more funny when the next big PS5 exclusive comes out.
There is also energy wasted to praise the consoles (in this case PS5) a bit to much imo. It goes both ways.
 

BeI

Member
Dec 9, 2017
5,974
Hopefully Control is a better point of comparison next month because it seems like performance is unreasonably low on the PC side here. I checked out some benchmarks of old AMD hardware (RX 570 vs 590) and the 590 could manage to get up to 30% more performance, with only like ~11% more shaders on 4th gen GCN 256-bit cards. Surely a 6800XT could have a bigger performance gap with 100% more shaders.
 

Zombegoast

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,223
Cold War is one of the least optimized games if you've been following a long what's been going on at Activision.

My Series S during the Zombie Free access would have my fps tank to sub 60 in solo early round.

The PC version I have will always crash just by browsing the settings and randomly crashes in game.


But both systems are capable to provide resolution and performance at a price that you can't get for $500. Especially now that the new AMD and Nvidia GPUs are impossible to buy at retail price.
 

arsene_P5

Prophet of Regret
Member
Apr 17, 2020
15,438
Affordable product with great performance deserves praises.
It absolutely does and I am a console guy myself. But some in here forgot that PC did run with higher settings in the comparisons. That's why I said some are praising the consoles a bit to much, because the consoles aren't comparable to a 3070 imo and they don't need to be. There are other examples with the PS4 vs PC discussion that praise consoles a bit to much, too.
 
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Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,621
Maxwell is almost 3 years newer than the graphics architecture in the consoles. There arent any features it lacks compared to PS4/Xbone. It's also not down to lower settings as in most of the games tested there, the settings used produce a much lower quality image than on consoles.
Erm sorry I meant Kepler. Which is the 700 series, i.e. the one they use in that comparison.
 

uptownsoul

Self-requested ban
Banned
Dec 6, 2017
112
Absolutely. If we're talking what's the best value among consoles, then you have to look at the overall cost.
I love Sony's first party games, but $70 first party titles can't compare to what value you get with Game Pass.

There will be 10's of millions of next gen console owners who won't buy a single exclusive. For those people, the PS5 Digital will objectively be the best dollar to power next gen hardware value.
 

Snake Eater

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,385
I think I literally laughed a few times during this video when they were doing 400% zoom in, so essentially under normal viewing conditions there is no difference, that's going to be the case this generation most of the time
 

arsene_P5

Prophet of Regret
Member
Apr 17, 2020
15,438
There will be 10's of millions of next gen console owners who won't buy a single exclusive. For those people, the PS5 Digital will objectively be the best dollar to power next gen hardware value.
Uhm, not necessarily. GP has some great third party games, too. GPU even includes eaplay and there are rumors for Ubi games being added. I think what determines the value is completely subjective and depends on so many factors that it's impossible to say X is the best value. But that complete discussion is offtopic anyway.
 
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GhostofWar

Member
Apr 5, 2019
512
While I agree the PC alpha effects running at a higher res means this isn't a 1:1 comparison, strictly based on the benchmark stats in the video, "running between 2070 Super and 3070" isn't really accurate. Performance on the PS5 averages closer to the 3070.



I thought the 2080 comparison was wrt rasterization only. With Nvidia cards readily outperforming AMD ones in RT scenarios, I expected the PS5 would fall in the 2060 or 2070 ballpark maybe.

The RT used on the consoles is only local and sun shadows (and sun shadows seem to go missing during the chopper scene) , RTAO is the heavy one and thats when AMD starts to suffer. There's a reason AMD sponsored games have only been RT Shadows (dirt / godfall)

RT local shadows
youtu.be

CoD: Cold War Revisited RX 6800 XT VS RTX 3080 Ray Tracing Scaling

You asked, we answered. Revisiting Call of Duty Black Ops Cold War's Ray Tracing performance, but this time exploring each setting and how much it's scaling ...

RTAO
youtu.be

CoD: Cold War Revisited RX 6800 XT VS RTX 3080 Ray Tracing Scaling

You asked, we answered. Revisiting Call of Duty Black Ops Cold War's Ray Tracing performance, but this time exploring each setting and how much it's scaling ...

All on
youtu.be

CoD: Cold War Revisited RX 6800 XT VS RTX 3080 Ray Tracing Scaling

You asked, we answered. Revisiting Call of Duty Black Ops Cold War's Ray Tracing performance, but this time exploring each setting and how much it's scaling ...

I'm not even sure if sun shadows would be a thing during the scene benchmarked either seeing its at night?
 

Genio88

Banned
Jun 4, 2018
964
There will be 10's of millions of next gen console owners who won't buy a single exclusive. For those people, the PS5 Digital will objectively be the best dollar to power next gen hardware value.
No i disagree, the value will always be in the disk version, you spend 100$ more but you can find a lot of better deals on games, and you can always resell them or trade in for other games. Digital sales are getting better but will never be as cheap as the physical game market. There is a reason if Sony cut the price by 100$ just for a disk reader, they know that if you buy the digital version in the end you will spend and give them way more money for games which will cost you more and you won't be able to resell