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Nateo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,527
I don't think XsX will have a massive notable edge on the PS5 until the MS/AMD DLSS version hits. The XSX is built to take advantage of that when its done so in a year or so there should be some massive gains. Till then depending on the dev it'll flip flop between PS5 and XsX doing better.
 

MCD

Honest Work
Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,759
User Banned (1 Week): Antagonizing Fellow Member; Platform warring; Past Ban for the Same
Aged like fine milk.

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XNBuzKO.jpg


You can always tag him tomwarren

Don't be afraid bro.
 

Toriko

Member
Dec 29, 2017
7,683
Aged like fine milk.

Lg8GVNi.jpg

What is with some journalists who cover xbox? Why do they love to spread FUD on the competition with zero info to backup? I have seen this with not just Tom Warren but Jez Corden and Brad Sams. Its pathetic. I have not seen anyone covering playstation for a living do this honestly. Plus him retweeting ppl like Colteastwood etc.... just ugh...
 

McFly

Member
Nov 26, 2017
2,742
Or you know... People looked at specs and did find out that the Xbox has the more powerful CPU and has more RAM bandwidth (10GB), alongside a overall more powerful GPU (each has their advantages on the GPU) and didn't focus on TF. It's not out of the ordinary to expect Xbox to perform better.
This is unequivocally false. The only thing people focused on was the TF number and nothing else once they were revealed. In fact on this very forum the going narrative was github was gospel truth and PS5 was overclocked in the last minute just so they can claim 10TF and in reality it was 9TF. And for months there were debates about the adaptive frequency strategy Sony employed for the PS5 and it couldn't sustain the high clocks because RDNA 1 comparison digital foundry made.


if you take a closer look at the specs, you will see that PS5 is quiet a bit faster in a lot of places than XSX.
 

Deleted member 43552

User requested account closure
Banned
May 17, 2018
409
User banned (3 days): Antagonistic language towards another member
What is with some journalists who cover xbox? Why do they love to spread FUD on the competition with zero info to backup? I have seen this with not just Tom Warren but Jez Corden and Brad Sams. Its pathetic. I have not seen anyone covering playstation for a living do this honestly. Plus him retweeting ppl like Colteastwood etc.... just ugh...
It's simple. He's not a journalist. Journalism is held to a higher standard than this drivel.
 

neoak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,260
You also saw a shift from 100% of multiplatform games looking better on 360 to something considerably less than that over time. You also saw developers pivot to having the PS3 be the lead platform, instead of defaulting to the 360 with every game.
PS3 was lead platform around that time because otherwise it was being left behind, so that is how they got to spend more resources on getting it to work right on the PS3, since 360 could just take the port easy.
 

Ovvv

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Jan 11, 2019
10,030
Didn't the Dirt 5 dev basically debunk all the SDK stuff people were worried about and insinuate that the higher clock speeds would be the bigger difference?
 

plagiarize

Eating crackers
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,511
Cape Cod, MA
David Springate Technical Director Dirt 5




I also find it rather ironic that now what devs are telling is matters. A few months back devs were telling us both consoles were very close in terms of performance. Devs were saying they were very happy with PS5 and a dev called it the most inspired piece of console hardware ever. This mirrors what we are seeing now, they are close in performance.

I'm familiar with this interview. I quoted from it already.

The tools are new. There is a learning curve that isn't there on the Sony side. That's what we're hearing. I have no idea if that accounts for anything with how Assassin's Creed Valhalla is running on the Xbox Series X or what if any bearing it has on how the same engine might run in the future.

I've been saying that I expect the differences to be small, and that I expect the systems to trade wins. Yes, you'll find me predicting that most multiplatform games will run better on Series X, which clearly remains to be seen, and which I still believe will be the case based on what we've seen so far.

You'll also find me saying nothing but positive things about Cerny.

'Most inspired piece of console hardware ever' sounds like some crazy hyperbole to me though.
 

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,440
If this Series S performance becomes the norm going forward it almost feels like the digital PS5 at $399 is the better value in the long run unless you absolutely need to save the $100 (which its target audience might I guess).
It just is anyway. Bigger storage drive, 4k gaming and no cutback capabilities other than a missing bluray drive for $100 more.
 

Sparks

Senior Games Artist
Verified
Dec 10, 2018
2,879
Los Angeles
Can't believe we are back to Tearing. It was the WORST part of the PS3/360 generation, people tend to forget how bad it was. Especially in Assassin Creed games interestingly enough.

Wont get till its fixed.
 

Fiery Phoenix

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,835
Weren't there rumors months ago that the Series X tools wouldn't be ready in time for launch and that the PS5 was in the meantime easier to optimize for?
 

McFly

Member
Nov 26, 2017
2,742
I'm familiar with this interview. I quoted from it already.

The tools are new. There is a learning curve that isn't there on the Sony side. That's what we're hearing. I have no idea if that accounts for anything with how Assassin's Creed Valhalla is running on the Xbox Series X or what if any bearing it has on how the same engine might run in the future.
The tools are not new. Its Direct X 12 it has been around for a while now with a few more things added to it. it is no different from PS5 using GNM with a few more things added to it.
 
Dec 8, 2018
1,911
I think this is it. For months it was lol PS5 is 9.2, it will have heating issues, 10.2 is a last minute attempt, and the marketing around `most powerful console` and `full RDNA2` etc with constant evangelizing from the likes of Tom Warren, Colt Eastwood, Jez Corden and some of the more toxic fanbase, there was bound to be backcklash.

All sane people have been saying all year that these consoles are going to be fairly similar and near indistinguishable for most third party games.

Yeah the Xbox and MS "community" figures certainly have tried to keep up this narrative while actual developers have said pretty opposite things but as usual people don't listen to reason.
 

Remeran

Member
Nov 27, 2018
3,893
Can't believe we are back to Tearing. It was the WORST part of the PS3/360 generation, people tend to forget how bad it was. Especially in Assassin Creed games interestingly enough.

Wont get till its fixed.
My brother went back and showed me AC 1 running on his ps3 and just wow can't believe I thought that was okay when I played it.
 

dreamfall

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,950
Well, this generation is going to be interesting. Seems like the performance gaps are narrow. PS5 outperforming the Series X on initial games at launch vs. as the gen continues will be fascinating. Excellent work as always DF!
 

Deleted member 57361

User requested account closure
Banned
Jun 2, 2019
1,360
Or you know... People looked at specs and did find out that the Xbox has the more powerful CPU and has more RAM bandwidth (10GB), alongside a overall more powerful GPU (each has their advantages on the GPU) and didn't focus on TF. It's not out of the ordinary to expect Xbox to perform better.
We also had many people, like Matt and Jason saying that people shouldn't just focus on a spreadsheet with values and the consoles were pretty much identical, each one with their own merits. But many decided to just ignore them and believe in people that proved themselves unreliable over and over.
 

bigbaldwolf86

attempted ban circumvention by using an alt
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
615
After all the conspiracy theories with how Ubi worded how both platforms would perform, its the PS4 that comes out on top. The screen tearing on the Xbox version is something else.
 

plagiarize

Eating crackers
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,511
Cape Cod, MA
So for the next 2 to 3 years while Microsoft's tools mature and covid is gone, multiplat' games will run better on PS5. Big oof.

The question is why Sony has much better tools than Microsoft.
Again, they don't have better tools if we believe the devs.

The focus of the tools are very different. Sony only have to target PS5 (and if you want to include last gen, PS4 and PS4 Pro). MS are targetting XSX, XSS and PC with these new tools (and you can add XO, XOS and XOX if you want to include last gen).

That's all. To facilitate this, MS launched new tools. It takes time to learn new tools vs familiar ones. Whether it ends up making a difference or not is yet to be seen, but I don't think CPU or GPU differences explain some of the stuff we saw in DMC5.
The tools are not new. Its Direct X 12 it has been around for a while now with a few more things added to it. it is no different from PS5 using GNM with a few more things added to it.
The developer you quoted, literally describes them as new in the interview you quoted from. This is him talking about the GDK. The API may have only added a few features, but its a different SDK. GDK vs XDK.

Dirt 5's Technical Director David Springate said:
It's in its infancy, because it's new, but it's not particularly lacking.

Boring details here: https://www.thurrott.com/games/237476/the-latest-on-xbox-game-core
 

Blackthorn

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,315
London
Ya'll better strap in because the consoles being so closely matched is gonna mean a constant back and forth between the "best" one.

Fanboys please practice self care and don't burn out on these early comparisons. This war is gonna be years long and your platform of choice is gonna need you on the front lines.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,919
Drawing sweeping conclusions on console performance from a cross-gen Ubisoft game seems like a poor idea overall.
This is why the first few months of a console generation are always so boring and repetitive. A long time ago, people would hype up terms code-to-the-metal, ESRAM, SPUs, NURBs, etc when the reality is that games are always ported in varying states of development with each platform having a different learning curve.

To be fair, the game performs terribly on both consoles. Ubisoft open-world games are always terribly optimized but do they bother patching in updates after launch?
 

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,440
Don't forget that sony will halt all improvements and optimizations on their end and call it a day. Jimbo said so.
Yeah, it'll just get better too. I remember people putting so much focus on teraflops, and people trying to warn that teraflops are a weird way to judge hardware, even if they use some similar chips. It wasn't technically Nvidia TF vs AMD TF, but at best it's probably better to wait to see them in whole. Since there's no clear gap so far with so many cross platform games, and few next gen only games we still have to wait anyway.
 

SRTtoZ

Member
Dec 8, 2017
4,624
I still don't understand how the game isn't 1080p/60 on the Series S. The entire reason the console exists is to match the X in performance but only see cuts to resolution. I wonder if this is more on Ubisoft than the actual performance of the console.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,025
XNBuzKO.jpg


You can always tag him tomwarren

Don't be afraid bro.


It's kinda funny, he goes from "There will always be a gap.". To saying wait for the tools to mature and be patient to see the gap that he insists will "always" be there.

Sometimes, it's hard to admit that you weren't exactly right. "Always" doesn't mean sometime maybe in the near future.
 

Rats

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,112
Yeah the Xbox and MS "community" figures certainly have tried to keep up this narrative while actual developers have said pretty opposite things but as usual people don't listen to reason.

We literally had a thread full of people discounting developer comments because of any tangential relationship they may have had with Sony at any time in the past.
 

Lucifonz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,132
United Kingdom
Yes, but its natural for people to question why these tools are not user friendly or well developed and devs are not familiar with them? Microsoft announced their new console well ahead of Sony, showed it well ahead also. You would think that they have been preparing for this new gen for years, why would they let their API of all things let them down just as the show starts...

The same argument can be said for the 1st party games, were they so eager to impress on the hardware, they neglected the other parts.

Whilst the physical hardware is ready that doesn't mean hardware partners have their full featuresets ready early on to go along with it. It's then a case of building those tools and support to go alongside it, assuming you want to link in with those. All platform holders face this challenge for every console but everyone takes different approaches. That's always been the case.

I think many misunderstood when saying MS' tools weren't as mature early on as Sony's - that doesn't mean Sony's won't continue to mature, of course they will but that wasn't the point. My point was aimed more at the timeliness of the core tools toolset / devs becoming familiar with them.

Whilst comparing the consoles 1:1 on the same games right now IS fun (I love this stuff!), we definitely can't make conclusions about how that'll manifest across the whole generation just yet. This has been a crazy year - it's almost a miracle that we've gotten some great software and hardware for everyone to enjoy. Undoubtedly they'll trade blows back and forth before we really know where the "power struggle" sits - more so this generation than any other due to this crazy year.
 

Md Ray

Member
Oct 29, 2017
750
Chennai, India
This is so strange, I wonder what's happening here:

acv4tdknq.jpg
I have a theory. These fps dips on Series X looks like the game is bandwidth starved. You may say how is that possible? Because 560 GB/s is greater than PS5's 448GB/s.

But let's not forget there's also the 336 GB/s of the so-called "standard memory". What if the game's wrongly tapping into the standard memory system here instead of the "GPU optimal memory" (560 GB/s)? This Ubisoft after all (and the number of bugs was really unsurprising).

336 GB/s to 448 GB/s is a 33% increase, and judging from this shot I see a 30% difference in frame-rate in favor of PS5 here. Thoughts?
 

Landy828

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,396
Clemson, SC
Something DF didn't touch on. There are some obvious texture quality differences at times. I noticed them watching in 1440p, so I upped it to 4k, and I could see them in motion. Obviously you have to stick to moments where the lighting seems to cast the same on the models, but in my first example, on the left here, there is an obvious (if you're doing a tech/magnifying technical look at it...level obvious..lol) texture resolution difference.

The texture resolution isn't even close if we're being picky. Granted, it's like Ultra vs Very High...lol. It doesn't appear to be a dynamic resolution situation at all.

texturequalityuakz2.png


Seems like that would be hard to miss with how closely things are looked at.
 

GasProblem

Prophet of Truth
Member
Nov 18, 2017
3,148
I'm happy I'm able to get both consoles and focus on just having fun playing game. The fanboy wars are going to be unsufferable with all these upcoming comparisons.
 

Tahnit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,965
Kinda amazing that the series x which is supposed to be the more powerful console is getting shown up by the ps5. I wonder if that has to do with the architecture that the ps5 is using vs the series x. Teraflops may not be everything afterall.

ACV runs butter smooth on PS5 with slight tearing in cutscenes but overall runs flawlessly. Its very impressive.
 

SRTtoZ

Member
Dec 8, 2017
4,624
Once again, saying "have patience" basically means "accept that for the next 2 years all your games will run worse than PS5 but mayyybe they'll run better after, who knows really". Can't believe he thinks it's a valid excuse.

I hate that excuse too because it also assumes that the PS5's tools aren't going to get any better. You would think with the overhead in the Series X it would at least be able to MATCH the PS5's performance but it's not even doing that, it's also performing 15% worse.