Which is why I don't think the comparison is dead on because Toyota would never have done the high clock equivalent.
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Digital Foundry: Analysis of PS5 teardown video
- Thread starter zombiejames
- Start date
Which is why I don't think the comparison is dead on because Toyota would never have done the high clock equivalent.
All of this bitching about everything will be gone when these fucking consoles are out and it turns out they are not made from fairy piss.
Consoles aren't exotic sports cars; they're all built at their core as reliable, cost effective devices. That's their whole business model.
Great video, unfortunately due the nature of the teardown we don't have anything new, but Richard's input is interesting regardless.
But people would love their consoles to be such exotic sports cars!
Listen, I am not even commenting on the Toyota comparison being right or wrong, I am just saying that this comment is gonna be misconstrued by bad faith actors. This is the kind of ammo they love and Rich gave it away willingly!
I appreciate the work put in by Digital Foundry here, but I still think it's a shame that they have to analyze a teardown video like the rest of us. It's mid-October. Places like Digital Foundry should have their own PS5 to tear down themselves.
I like the video. It's fairly obvious that Rich is at least a little annoyed (could be for any number of reasons), but he gives a decent analysis of what he can see in the video and his thoughts. I don't completely agree with his analysis, but he explains his thought process and it's logical, not fanboy drivel. Good stuff as usual from DF.
The toyota comment I read to be about the famous toyota manufacturing process - which if you work in logistics/manufacturing you would have had some sight of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Production_System
I didn't take that comment as negative in the slightest. The comparisons with the Series X are always interesting but I don't think they're 100% valid as no-one has had the chance to do full like-for-like comparisons with respect to noise, cooling etc.
The comment about CPU/SoC info was more about how MS provide this technical detail at Hotchips but Sony don't do attend that - although I have a pet theory that the Sony SoC has some more customisations that are still under NDA until after the RDNA2 event later this month which is why I think people who would know all the details are still reluctant to spill info. Rich made it seem that they've been trying to ask clarifying questions but Sony are not forthcoming.
The toyota comment I read to be about the famous toyota manufacturing process - which if you work in logistics/manufacturing you would have had some sight of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Production_System
I didn't take that comment as negative in the slightest. The comparisons with the Series X are always interesting but I don't think they're 100% valid as no-one has had the chance to do full like-for-like comparisons with respect to noise, cooling etc.
The comment about CPU/SoC info was more about how MS provide this technical detail at Hotchips but Sony don't do attend that - although I have a pet theory that the Sony SoC has some more customisations that are still under NDA until after the RDNA2 event later this month which is why I think people who would know all the details are still reluctant to spill info. Rich made it seem that they've been trying to ask clarifying questions but Sony are not forthcoming.
Btw, here is the written version:
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-playstation-5-teardown-analysis
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-playstation-5-teardown-analysis
This quote nails it, and the end of the day reliability and lower power consumption are key for consoles vs PCs counterparts. This isn't a bad thing it's just the nature of consoles. The value of what these boxes can do vs price are amazingly good. Let's not lose sight of that.
And their production principles have been one of the most influential. Even I use their principles at work even though I don't work for a vehicle manufacturer.
These same people would be using a $600-700 price tag as ammo if it did contain more exotic parts throughout. There's no way to win.
People on here would've lost their minds if the consoles were $600 or more (if we're using the exotic sport car analogy) so I don't think so.
Agreed, I don't think that was intended as a slight at all. I think he's saying - and IMO it's true - that it's obvious Sony has kept an eye on straightforward/'simple' manufacturability (liquid metal aside), on longer term cost curves, and on erring on the side of caution in terms of thermal capacity, airflow area etc. For 'conservative' you can read 'straightforward', and straightforward or simple isn't at all a bad thing for manufacturing or product design.
Having your production process compared to Toyota is one of the biggest compliments a manufacturer can receive.
It's not a question of whether their favorite plaything is an actual exotic sports car, it's about the perception of it being one.
It's a shame they won't let DF have it early so we can have a non-isolated early preview.
PS5 had to go less expensive with the build quality since there's a SKU that's $100 less than the XSX/PS5 while sacrificing nothing but the optical drive. Sony nailed their design goals and it looks like other than the size being rather large, they didn't have to compromise anywhere else.
Agreed. Some ppl need to relax, seriously.
Interesting indeed.
Yeah that wasn't a slight against PlayStation. Toyota are a revolutionary company when it comes to design and manufacture. Their practices are probably the biggest improvement in car manufacture since Henry Ford started the car assembly line.
If you're interested at all in some of the things they introduced into manufacturing practices, see Just in Time.
They didnt go less expensive with the build quality. They went less expensive on the chip and cooling everything else is showing that its high build quality.
Yeah. You can see up and down how the system was built and also pretty much will allow them to miniaturize pretty easily.
What does he mean by conservative, in the engineering sense being conservative is having large safety factors for stuff. Does he mean that Sony over provisioned the cooling, large area, large heat sink, large fan, liquid metal.
Well, at the end of the day, engineering internal components into something more complicated for the sole reason of having it look more exotic to combat perception would be a bad long term move. Console warriors will always find something illogical to pull out, no matter how wrongheaded and stupid it is in reality. They're going to latch onto something and perceive it to be bad no matter what.
Build quality is a poor choice of words on my part but it's factual they cut costs to hit a price target and they did it in a smart way, with the only downside being size.
OP
OP
Certainly none of the recent variants, and the only time it's remotely apt would be maybe the purpose-built rally GT-Four? Or the Celica Supra?
Yeah thats more accurate there, if you see the summary of an interview with ootori it confirms that, they saved a shit load of money on a smaller chip because it would help yield sizes and amount of chips per wafer and then were able to get to the performance goals they had at a sacrifice of a large sized console due to heat.
This is great. I like the comparison of the traditional PS5 design with the newer and more elegant design of the Series X. I'm curious what will work better in the end.
Welp, they covered a video, and we got some thoughts and some assumptions. That was....a video. I think this confirms that the system would be quiet but I think we already knew that after the teardown from Sony.
Another quality piece of content from DF as expected.
Another quality piece of content from DF as expected.
The PS5 is built a lot like a traditional console, not much different from the PS4 in fact, but with more attention to ensure keeping the system quiet by increasing size, using liquid metal, using a much bigger heatsink, etc.
He's right. The PS5 is likely cheaper to produce than the XSX because of this too.
I mean, it's hard to disagree about the size of the heatsink lol
What's the story behind people attacking DF that people are referencing in the first page?
John?
I thought DF made some good points about general cost reduction especially in regards to the PS5 actually having very few parts, despite being quite large.
I have a general question for more tech savy people than me though. Since one of the ways the console handles heat is simple through sheer size with the heatsink and huge fan, would it even be possible to create a PS5 slim without completely redesigning the cooling system? The components aren't going to get any less hot.
I have a general question for more tech savy people than me though. Since one of the ways the console handles heat is simple through sheer size with the heatsink and huge fan, would it even be possible to create a PS5 slim without completely redesigning the cooling system? The components aren't going to get any less hot.
Makes me wonder how low MS could have gotten the price if they had gone with these cheaper solutions.
Microsoft was smart to give the Xbox Series X early to DF and dissect themselves
Sony should've did the same
Sony should've did the same
Kinda wild when you measure reality against the yield rate FUD from 1-2 months ago, eh?
Why? As Richard notes, there is overwhelming hype for the PS5. What would this change? Message board fodder?
?
it would have been a huuuuuuge system to get it to work with no vapor cooling, dual motherbord design
Yes, they mention exactly that in their interview that just came out today. Doing so would mean adding in two smaller fans which would shrink the console, but also increase the build cost.
Then why are they charging $100 for a UHD drive?
Did they allow the PS4 to anyone like DF prior to launch?
Well it's his job to get it before the rest of us. In his line of work, it's capital.
Well I think one thing is pretty certain at this point and that is that the BoM for the XsX is probably much higher than the PS5. I think MS was simply more willing to take a bigger loss on hardware.
"Conservative" in the sense of following traditional PC design for its construction. The single mobo with a big copper heatsink should be effective for cooling, it just leads to a PC-size form factor. Stacked motherboards have been used in console design going all the way back to 32 and 64-bit eras as a way to keep things smaller, but it seems they wanted to minimize components. Cutting back the GPU CUs in the APU was presumably another way to help keep size/heat more under control.
Haven't seen the video, but the write-up makes it clear that he means the cooling solution is not exotic. Nothing to do with manufacturing prowess.