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Digital Foundry: [4K] Star Citizen: A Next-Gen Experience In The Making... And You Can Play-Test It Now
- Thread starter Lashley
- Start date
Tens of thousands of defenseless gamers will be forced by this video against their will to spend $5000 on a virtual spaceship. I'm on the phone with the Hague right now.
No, not bugs. Server bandwith getting throttled by the 64-bit tech, persistent problems with geometry, the engine itself requiring lots of rewrites and modifications during development. That kinda stuff, not the vague 'the game is not in the state it should be'
Not really, said what I have to say, except that I find it extremely hilarious that you accuse me of being a "fanboy" (nice reading comprehension there, Nora being of course a typically masculine name) and then immediately admitting that you have no idea what you were even talking about in the first place. But yes, I am of course the child who is "bitting it" (what are you even talking about, what does this mean).
Anyway, don't talk to me again
Great video. There is a fine line between pushing boundries and biting off more than you can chew. Their vision for the game is very ambitious and only time will tell if they can achieve it or even come close to it.
As for the tech, it is very impressive and there are a lot of things done on a technical level that you can only find in this game and many other things that only a few other games can achieve.
As for the tech, it is very impressive and there are a lot of things done on a technical level that you can only find in this game and many other things that only a few other games can achieve.
User Warned: Hostility
Uh, accusations of reading comprehension and all.Sorry about that though, fanboy is usually the term people use. For someone talking about reading comprehension you can start by telling me though where did i accuse you of being a fanboy when i said that sometimes those kinds of outrage over something like this are made by fanboys. You however accused the video author of being a fanboy because he didn't adress the accusations of bad management in a tech video.
i will now much oblige the request to not talk to you again, since man or women, i don't usually argument with dumbshit childs acting like they know something. Grow the fuck up.
People calling development of this game troubled or mismanaged, sure, but have you tried to understand why is it like that?
What they could do to avoid it? Because there is only one answer to this question.
They could only avoid it by compromising their vision and making different game that they want to make.
Game is trying to push boundaries and create something that was never done before gameplay wise and to make game work they need/needed to develop tech that doesnt/didnt exist. Thats not something that you can plan or predict, this is what R&D is.
So yeah, call it mismanaged or troubled, its your perspective, for me, they are just trying to realize their vision.
I want more ambitious project in AAA space, not less and i can wait. Ambitious, industry defining projects like this just do not come up often, so i do not mind the wait as long as the company can stay afloat.
What they could do to avoid it? Because there is only one answer to this question.
They could only avoid it by compromising their vision and making different game that they want to make.
Game is trying to push boundaries and create something that was never done before gameplay wise and to make game work they need/needed to develop tech that doesnt/didnt exist. Thats not something that you can plan or predict, this is what R&D is.
So yeah, call it mismanaged or troubled, its your perspective, for me, they are just trying to realize their vision.
I want more ambitious project in AAA space, not less and i can wait. Ambitious, industry defining projects like this just do not come up often, so i do not mind the wait as long as the company can stay afloat.
"children" is the plural of "child". anyway thanks for the laugh again accusing me of acting like I know something when you admitted you had no idea about the troubled development of SC when you replied to me. That's called projecting! See ya.
No really, you really are not understanding it and keep acting like a petulant child.It doesn't matter if i read all about it or not.Many of these type of accusations come from fanboys fanning the flames and getting all worked up about something they don't even have and interest in. That was what i was getting at. I was not accusing you of being a fanboy nor did i accuse you of bitting it, i was talking generally.
It's not only in game dev that crap like this happens, it's all over the place. Someone throws some accusations around and people start taking it as gospel and i usually don't until i see proof (except in rape cases and such where i always believe in the victim first and foremost), i will read though all the opinion articles exempt of proof just so i can argue with you though.
Good job on correcting my english since i'm not an english language native, i do know 3 more languages besides english so i always welcome corrections to my written english. Again, you're a child.
Yes, there is. Change the management.
Some more answers:
Budget it properly. Avoid feature creep. Don't do stuff like foip when the flight model is broken. Choose an engine that can actually support the type of game you're making. I can go on.
Ambition and vision are qualities only if you pull it off. They (CIG) haven't, after 8 years.
A great deal of industry defining projects are being developed outside Star Citizen, which have higher chances of being utilized as baseline for future developments than whats being done in Star Citizen.
Wow. Looks really impressive. I've never had a gaming PC, but I might just have to build one. Has the game really been in alpha for years? And as great as it looks, is it any fun to play?
Name few please.
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I normally do not reply to you, as you are known for trolling in those threads, but everything you wrote is exactly about compromising the vision.
And flight model is not broken and havent been for at least 4 years. FOIP was not implemented by people doing flight physics ..., You know, different departments.
Name one game engine that would be better than CryEngine when they were starting company and especially after they recruited core Crytek team.
You also know that 8 years is bullshit as they were creating company from scratch and they had headcount of just 60 people at the start of 2014 (http://i.imgur.com/QLUK3iY.png).
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Ps. Has CIG made mistakes? Yeah a lot, but what company does not do them?
Thank you for the ad personam. Always welcome.
All the things I noted are normal development practices.
Even CIG acknowledged the problems with the flight model and promised fixes in one of their videos.
8 years is exactly what it should be considering they started the KS in 2012 and done work before it. The rest of your post reads like a standard SC Defence Bingo.
I can point towards one category;
Literally every feature the Engine developers are adding for commercial purposes and literally every feature the GPU companies are pushing forward.
You definitely want to champion a title to push boundaries and find success, even if it is unconventional.
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Kiki tbh honest for a an almost 200m game it feels like it if it ain't it.
You dont even know what flight model problems you are talking about... Probably you mean hover mode, which they implemented in 3.6, they scraped in 3.7 due to community feedback.
Yes, 8 years. Lets consider 5 people's PoC work in cryengine a development start for two games MMO and SP Campaign, sure.
And of course lets bash all other arguments as 'SC Defence Bingo', its definitely not because you have no response for my engine answer.
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I mean sure, there are engine features being worked on, but its not the same as full, working project that combines everything together.
Its not about being few features development in SC engine, its about creating interconnected systems in a way that was not done before in SP game, let alone in MP game.
Other example of such games are for example EVE Online, Crysis or Planetside.
Yep, you are not trolling at all.
Why did even bother? ...
One of us is talking about SC like it is a complete game. Hope that helps.
From what the video, it really does look impressive.
Will it still look impressive a few years into next gen? Also, when the game is actually released, will it be able to make a profit to be able to justify taking so long and spending so much too work on it? I mean, it's cool that they're trying to push the envelope when it comes to PC graphics, but will it be worth it financially in the end for them?
Will it still look impressive a few years into next gen? Also, when the game is actually released, will it be able to make a profit to be able to justify taking so long and spending so much too work on it? I mean, it's cool that they're trying to push the envelope when it comes to PC graphics, but will it be worth it financially in the end for them?
I'm surprised he hasn't linked his favourite video series yet. But that would probably dilute his point that there is not enough content about that topic already
If released it will be a GaaS title plain and simple and not a "buy for 60 get everything".
Did they ever talk about using tesselation ? That could be very welcome for things like rocks or trees.
One thing that would make a major difference is the addition of real-time GI, or at least an imitation of it. They talked about doing some R&D around it at least.
One thing that would make a major difference is the addition of real-time GI, or at least an imitation of it. They talked about doing some R&D around it at least.
Don't build a gaming PC today for a game that is going to come out in 2022 at the earliest.
Check out Bored Gamer youtube channel. He usually do a beginners guide video after each major patch with the basic stuff you need to know.
I would play more if my progress didn't reset at each quarterly update. It's an impressive game but I don't have time to grind up to nicer ships only to loose them later, and I'm not dropping hundreds of dollars either. I also think the devs are a little out of alignment on the FPS focus. People are playing this for the space ship factor. Tons of FPS games exist and play better. We're not here for bunker raids. They need to focus more on trading/smuggling/mining imo. Those experiences should be far richer than the commodity spreadsheets they currently are.
I just hope it won't feel dated and underwhelming by the time it's released.
This game already only looks ''good'' compared to other AAA games on the market. Next year it will only look ''decent'', and in the year after it will look just ''okay''
The longer it takes, the less impressive it will be.
Imagine if Crysis was released in 2014, while still impressive, it just won't have the same impact.
From what I've seen, this game is shaping up to be a ''2014 Crysis''
This game already only looks ''good'' compared to other AAA games on the market. Next year it will only look ''decent'', and in the year after it will look just ''okay''
The longer it takes, the less impressive it will be.
Imagine if Crysis was released in 2014, while still impressive, it just won't have the same impact.
From what I've seen, this game is shaping up to be a ''2014 Crysis''
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Also, head into the Arena Commander section of the game. You can do free flight where you can practice flying by yourself without anyone killing you and do pirate swarm to learn how to fight in your ship.
They're not using CryEngine. Effectively they're using Lumberyard, but barely that too, there is so much custom technology in the engine.
It goes without saying that engines are not fixed targets, and even today CryEngine can still put out some impressive stuff.
Ok, I will edit the engine part out.
Still, while the game definitely looks good judging from the video. It's not really ''next gen'' looking.
I wonder how it's gonna fare against the actual next gen titles. Cause I am pretty sure that's when SC will be released.
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this is what I'm most curious about. To me, it's still a bit to much of a sewn together hodgepodge of impressive techdemos. I hope it hits retail one day and actually makes for an engrossing experience.
Development started in 2011, the kickstarter was 2012, and the first playable alpha of the hanger module was 2013. Other modules have come since and what you can play in alpha has grown. It's not a game yet, but it's a collection of technical modules in a full state of development.
Regarding building a PC? Don't do it for this game. Feature creep and time has introduced spec creep. A top of the video card in 2013 was the GTX 980. The game is still in Alpha and that card is a GTX2080TI. If you want a gaming PC for other games, go for it.
After Red Dead Redemption 2 I'm convinced that a good chunk of gamers just don't care about fun, all they want is spectacle.
They just want to ''be impressed'' as if they're on a tour.
At the end of the day it's a simulator and your expectations should be adjusted accordingly because of that. It's not meant to be a light fun experience that you can pick up and play effortlessly without moderate investment into learning the myriad of mechanics. For example there's a lot of depth to simply flying in this game, learning the various flight control systems and ship components, controlling heat management/ energy distribution, overclocking components of your ship and the various tactics and maneuvering methods you can learn might not be that appealing to a casual gamer who just wants to press forward on a stick and pull a trigger to shoot the thing.
When you get a ship it comes with an in depth manual as if you were buying a car: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6FJEde5ciAUZjJQMThDT093LUk/view
To me, a reading 66 page document filled with valid information about how better to control my ship is exciting, I want to sink my teeth into something that well realized and in depth, but to another it might be the most unfun boring prelude to gameplay they've ever experienced. Much in the same way RDR2 is a masterpiece to some and an clunky overrated bore to others.
It's design goals clearly aren't the same as other popular games, and that's totally fine, it's what sets it apart in the first place.
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Some people want immersion before all yes. And that's not a bad thing, it's just different.
RDR2 immersed me immensely in its setting and its story, I was totally hooked.
Maybe these kind of games aren't for you.
Exactly. I think they have still gone for the wrong things, namely fancy tech and minute details over having the basic gameplay working well. I last tried it around 3.5 or whatever the version was that brought in the procedural cities and to me it felt like an impressive tech demo at best. Granted I played it solo so that may have an effect on my enjoyment but NPCs were largely static and standing around with no way to interact with them.
I'd rather have a game that is more limited visually and in scope but fun to play rather than a game that is collection of individually impressive systems that don't form a coherent whole at least yet.
Obviously Star Citizen looks on another level visually but hasn't No Man's Sky already done the whole planet jumping then flying down to it in real time for years?
The server layering has definitely already been done in Classic WoW. It's really cool technology.
The timing of the video is a bit strange (with next gen right around the corner) as are the pot shots towards consoles (nothing new from Alex unfortunately) not being able to handle it when it's more than likely that the PS5 Pro / XB2 X will be out by the time the full SC game is released. We will be looking at 20tflop GPU's in those consoles so they could easily handle it. The standard next gen consoles will be able to handle it with the massive leap in CPU compute.
I really wish Alex would concentrate on the topic at hand rather than playing up to the PC stereotype gamer at times by mocking consoles. I have a PC as my main platform but I've turned many of his videos off after eye rolling 'console warz' comments. It's embarrassing especially when he's representing Digital Foundry which has done a great and professional job of staying away from that whole toxic mess since they started doing YouTube videos.
Great video though overall. The game looks stunning.
I didn't get the sense at all that he was mocking consoles or saying that it would be impossible next-gen? He was being pretty clinical about how hardware restrictions have clearly effected scope and ambitions of many modern games and how that all might change with next gen consoles, using SC as an example of what can be done when those current hardware limitations are sidestepped.
NMS fakes its solar system and planetary bodies. When you are on the planet the sun is behaving like in standard games with day night cycles, when you are in space planets do not rotate and sun is just a skybox, you can never fly to it. It doesnt have a rotation. Also there is clear 'loading' when you are approaching ground, so transition is not seemless, in Star Citizen if object on the planet is big enough you can see it from the orbit.
There were games that did seamless transition from space to ground, like original Elite, new Elite or a 'little' game called Evochron, but non of those do have micro detail and multiple bioms on those planets.
Thats not it. WoW is fully instanced and have zones separated by loading. They also have restrictions to amount of players per shard. I think Guild Wars 2 would be better example, but its also separated by loading zones, where every zone is separate instance.
But its not interactive world, you cannot take some stuff to your arms from one part of the world, travel and drop it somewhere else and every player that will go to the location that you dropped the item will see it.
What server meshing will be is seamless distribution of servers for zones in the solar system.
To better explain it, i need to explain first Object Container Streaming technology they developed:
Basically it containerize parts of the world and allow communication between those all assets within that bubble inside between zones below and above it.
So for example all rooms in the building are separate containers, then you have big container for a whole building, then you a landing zone that is a container containing all buildings containers and then your container is a whole planet with everything within.
This system is dynamic depending on the needs and distance, so for example closer you get to space station the more containers you load and the more granular the simulation is.
They already have it working client side, they are finishing server side part of it and then they will be incorporating dynamic allocation of servers to server based containers, so for example you have a cluster of space stations nearby that have one player on each station, so in this situation you only need one server to handle simulation of those objects and those players
In other case 100 players spawn on each of those space station, now every space station get their own server dynamically, but those servers still communicate with each other, so you have a party members on different space station you can still communicate like you would on the same server. Of course this is not restricted to objects, it can also containerize space, so for example you have quite a bigger battle, but cluster of ships are separated, then every cluster of ships get its own bubble with own server, separation should be similar to how the EVE Online handles the visible grid, but EVE cannot containerize it, so at most they can have one server per system.
This will create illusion that game only have one server, like in EVE, where everybody plays and can interact.
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