We'd have to hope Nomura finds his footing and does his first genuinely winning (original) story since The World Ends With You. The odds of that are... honestly not great.
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Did you like Final Fantasy VII Remake's ending? [POLL] [SPOILERS]
- Thread starter DNAbro
- Start date
We'd have to hope Nomura finds his footing and does his first genuinely winning (original) story since The World Ends With You. The odds of that are... honestly not great.
Yeah, Nomura has more gigantic failures than successes under his belt as far as storytelling goes. The guy has a lot of good ideas as far as gameplay design is concerned but he's a horrible, horrible storyteller and if he thinks injecting a six-year-old's "EVERYBODY GETS TO LIVE" mentality into a story about dealing with loss is a good way to retell that story, then honestly there's very little reason to expect him to pull off something good.
He's basically trying to fight a bear with a knife made of sausage.
100% this. I'm really baffled by these poll results. I mean, even IF you're excited about the meta stuff and the uncertainty of future events, the ending in its own right is STILL just poorly written and executed. Especially the way of how they introduced Sephiroth here, makes him just a hell of a boring and poorly worked out villain, I can't believe they fucked him up so badly in this game.
I think, chapters 1-16 were really well written, with a few lows here and there, but with massive improvements in fleshing out characters and their motivations. But in chapter 18 the writers just throw it off all by letting the characters "choose" their own destiny/fate in a blatantly way.
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I liked it but with a huge asterisk. This significantly increases the onus on the writers to make sure the future installments don't fall apart, which for modern SE is a terrifying prospect.
Tbh given how much I loved the faithful parts if they stuck to the original plot I probably would be more confident for the future games if it was a faithful retelling. As it is it's much more likely the plot will fall on its face by the end.
But given how good this game was overall I'm still cautiously optimistic.
Tbh given how much I loved the faithful parts if they stuck to the original plot I probably would be more confident for the future games if it was a faithful retelling. As it is it's much more likely the plot will fall on its face by the end.
But given how good this game was overall I'm still cautiously optimistic.
Loved it for its boldness.
I already started realizing something could be happening when the whispers were aiding Cloud and Aerith in the church (that they were neutral and not enemies.. hence some kind of fate/destiny enforcer).
Nothing else hinted to the potential big change; I thought Squeenix would chicken out and just let fate enforce the story.. in which case I was like, then why does anyone have to do anything? Just let fate do everything. That's ironically when I started thinking they might have the balls to do it..
Cloud seeing visions of Aerith's future was when I was like HOLY SHIT THEY REALLY DOING THIS. So yeah.
I am more than happy to play a new game. FF7 original will always be there and I was not looking forward to spending next 5-7 years of my life waiting to play an old game with new paint.. and Nomura Kitase definitely don't want to spend a decade just redoing something old.
So this is fantastic.
I really hope Squeenix sort out technical, production and design issues on the next one though.
I already started realizing something could be happening when the whispers were aiding Cloud and Aerith in the church (that they were neutral and not enemies.. hence some kind of fate/destiny enforcer).
Nothing else hinted to the potential big change; I thought Squeenix would chicken out and just let fate enforce the story.. in which case I was like, then why does anyone have to do anything? Just let fate do everything. That's ironically when I started thinking they might have the balls to do it..
Cloud seeing visions of Aerith's future was when I was like HOLY SHIT THEY REALLY DOING THIS. So yeah.
I am more than happy to play a new game. FF7 original will always be there and I was not looking forward to spending next 5-7 years of my life waiting to play an old game with new paint.. and Nomura Kitase definitely don't want to spend a decade just redoing something old.
So this is fantastic.
I really hope Squeenix sort out technical, production and design issues on the next one though.
This is fair criticism, but I think in some ways it wasn't the characters fighting destiny, it was the creators.. the players. None of that last hour would make sense if you haven't played or understood the original.
Its like when Shinji decides to reject Rei's surrender in Rebuild 2.0 and take fate into his own hands, there's a scene where Misato shouts.. GO SHINJI. But really, how would Shinji even hear her? She's not in the comms HQ she's on the ground in a terrible battle. But Anno chose to edit the film that way, as if Misato were pushing him on..
It's really meta, and it will always be divisive (hell, even the most well pulled off meta stuff is always divisive.. in any media).
Also agree with all the poor execution / no restraint comments here.. It's like Kojima. MGS2 ending was crazy, no restraint, but still very interesting and maybe even more relevant today than then.
And so despite the flaws of the last hour, it's still interesting. Not masterful work but still interesting. We can all hope there's an increased mastery in part 2. There's always time to get off the train if we don't like what we're seeing. Right now it looks like we're mostly all on it, even the ones who're mad.
I think this says how I feel about it best. I'm fine with what they're conceptually doing, didn't love the execution but that's okay because I'm hoping we don't see a lot more of this metaphysical interdinensional magic hate whatever stuff, that it existed as an ending to this first chapter and set expectations for an unknown future. The only other thing I disliked in the game from a story perspective is how Sephiroth was handled and introduced. Hoping they pull it off though because FFVIIR is one of the greatest games I've ever played. I forgive it many faults because the parts I find exceptional are truly, truly exceptional. But please don't fuck it all up :(
Was looking forward to a series to recreate what I like. Not reinvent it. Every FF7 related project released after the initial game was not great. If they try to make a new FF7 and reinvent it.. it's not going to be as good. That being said I could be wrong so l'll wait and see-- will most likely get the next game on day 1.
They remade the part of the game I wanted to see in full fidelity so I'm down with whatever they do next.
I think the poll could've used options to take into account people's expectations towards the sequel.
I hated it, but if there were no real effects and part 2 would go on using this template of 90% the same, 10% new, some weird shit at the end, and actually maintaining the fundamentals of the original story, I could totally learn to love part 1 and forgive the tonal incongruence. Even though I still hate the fact it doesn't work independently from the context of the original now..
On the other hand, there are so many people who are downright in denial about the ending, thinking to themselves down the lines of "it was just a dream and Zack is going to get shot in the back any moment now", as if SQE would go through all this trouble getting the licence to change every fundamental thing. So if the worst comes to worst in the sequel (or just a new interview where they say out loud what the ending so strongly implies), I think their answer to this poll would change.
I hated it, but if there were no real effects and part 2 would go on using this template of 90% the same, 10% new, some weird shit at the end, and actually maintaining the fundamentals of the original story, I could totally learn to love part 1 and forgive the tonal incongruence. Even though I still hate the fact it doesn't work independently from the context of the original now..
On the other hand, there are so many people who are downright in denial about the ending, thinking to themselves down the lines of "it was just a dream and Zack is going to get shot in the back any moment now", as if SQE would go through all this trouble getting the licence to change every fundamental thing. So if the worst comes to worst in the sequel (or just a new interview where they say out loud what the ending so strongly implies), I think their answer to this poll would change.
I have faith based on the fact this game lived up so hard for me. I can only speak for myself and I'm not guilting anyone whose nervous about it but I'm very all in on this direction
I loved all of it.
This opens so many options.. I saw this post on another thread and sounds like a good idea.. it's a lot of work but you can always hope that they could go crazy and do something like this:
"Why not just make it an experience where:
Path A) You don't save Aerith, Zack stays dead, game proceeds like the original.
Path B) You save Aerith, somehow Zack doesn't die, the game takes a new shift.
Yes, its a TON of work, but it would massively increase replayability and also allow people to see what would have happened if Aerith lived and consequences of that. What I don't get is why this game is essentially a sequel to the original. They are basically saying that by letting Aerith die, they all die anyway (which is what a lot of people assumed at the end of the original, its a weird ass ending) and THIS TIME you have to change it."
This opens so many options.. I saw this post on another thread and sounds like a good idea.. it's a lot of work but you can always hope that they could go crazy and do something like this:
"Why not just make it an experience where:
Path A) You don't save Aerith, Zack stays dead, game proceeds like the original.
Path B) You save Aerith, somehow Zack doesn't die, the game takes a new shift.
Yes, its a TON of work, but it would massively increase replayability and also allow people to see what would have happened if Aerith lived and consequences of that. What I don't get is why this game is essentially a sequel to the original. They are basically saying that by letting Aerith die, they all die anyway (which is what a lot of people assumed at the end of the original, its a weird ass ending) and THIS TIME you have to change it."
Cant wait to see how Nomura and crew fuck up part 2, and tell everyone that said they liked the ending that they were so fucking wrong.
I enjoyed the entire game, and couldn't believe they used the actual events of the original FF7 that I adore to further enhance the story. I love the new bold direction.
I for one appreciate that this Remake's theme seems to be the total opposite theme of the original game. The original FF7's core theme was death and loss. The original plot was very dark, and it told a fantastic tale.
But...I am ok with a version of FF7 where the theme is life and freedom. We can have a game about joy and optimism with characters I want to have a happy ending, and that doesn't mean every character will get it going forward. These characters will most likely still go through the ringer, but the uncertainty is extremely exciting for the future of FF7, and especially on next gen consoles.
I for one appreciate that this Remake's theme seems to be the total opposite theme of the original game. The original FF7's core theme was death and loss. The original plot was very dark, and it told a fantastic tale.
But...I am ok with a version of FF7 where the theme is life and freedom. We can have a game about joy and optimism with characters I want to have a happy ending, and that doesn't mean every character will get it going forward. These characters will most likely still go through the ringer, but the uncertainty is extremely exciting for the future of FF7, and especially on next gen consoles.
Maybe, but I think the placement at the end of chapter 17 also makes sense given what the drum is (Her theme is even interlaced into the background music once you enter the wards).
What confuses me about that last bit - isn't AC confirmed to be canon? So we know they don't all die (in that timeline).
Even if they drop the ball, it doesn't mean people who were open to what was introduced in this ending were wrong, so good luck with that.
I liked the ending and I've played the original FFVII but because of how bad and though the roof stupid it is. It doesn't work on the other hand if you look at it as an artistic expression or ending. Few AAA games or J-RPGS are as out of control as this portion. Very Lightning Returns of it. Look up its final hour. Wew, lad.
The 2020 remake doesn´t work as a game or story, remake or not, but it does work as hilarious trash anime from like a decade to 2 ago that disappeared up its own asshole. From back when new Eva clones released every season. Stay good at being bad with these SE and I may consider that these games deserve to exist.
PS: Avalanche being all splintered up is a retcon from Before Crisis to respond to Jim´s video that the thread brought up.
The 2020 remake doesn´t work as a game or story, remake or not, but it does work as hilarious trash anime from like a decade to 2 ago that disappeared up its own asshole. From back when new Eva clones released every season. Stay good at being bad with these SE and I may consider that these games deserve to exist.
PS: Avalanche being all splintered up is a retcon from Before Crisis to respond to Jim´s video that the thread brought up.
I liked the ending and the original is my fave game of all time. As long as it continues to follow mostly the same tentpole story and/or locale beats, I'm perfectly fine with there being a few twists. Infact, I welcome them, as there will or could still be some surprises, which makes the prospect of playing through it all a bit more exciting.
The Rebuild of FF VII is basically Fafner in the Azure if I had to compare it to an anime. An off-brand remake that has zero understanding of what it tries to adapt or one up but it sure shoots for the moon. Not good when looked at it critically but it made me laugh. I wonder if these will also last for a similar amount of time as Fafner. 15 years and counting... And if the release schedule will make as little sense here too.
en.wikipedia.org
FF VII: Right of Left. FF VII: The Beyond. Yep. I can see that packaging already!
Fafner in the Azure - Wikipedia
The whole dream sequence feels like a goodbye ('Take care of yourself Cloud'). She knows that she probably won't be coming back.
Well, I expect it because I played the whole XIII saga and KH and I know the leads on this don't have a clue of how to write time travel, parallel timelines on a competent level. From XIII-2, LR, The 3rd Birthday and KH as a whole everytime ends on a complete nonsensical mess that brings down the whole package.
The execution of Ch. 18 shows these people have no restraint and now all these elements are part of VII universe a game that succeeded thanks, partially, because it didn't have that convoluted mess layered over it being a much simple story focused on it s character and their journey rather than stupid 'Mistery boxes'
Imagine being this mad that people liked something you didn't.
Why would you want them to mess up? Petty AND evil.
What an awful comment.
Like I get all that I really do. I've played all those games too.
But at the same time I'm always hoping for the best. FF7 really is a special game for me so I get why people are angry but I'd rather spend my time thinking about the next game in a positive way rather than getting angry or upset every time I think about it.
Like the odds are completely against them but this game was pretty fucking good so fingers crossed for the next one is how I'm approaching it.
To me, the first 48 hours of the game were some of the best times I've ever had gaming. I am in my 30s, and played the original multiple times, and I loved the remake....
Until the ending(last 2 or so hours). The ending cold stop ruined it for me. I don't mind them changing things here and there, but that ending made me retroactively dislike the rest of the game somewhat. I also no longer care about the sequels to this. Throughout the game until the end, I was so fucking excited to see what the rest of the parts would be like, but the fact that I am not even going to buy them anymore kinda explains how much the ending killed my enthusiasm.
Until the ending(last 2 or so hours). The ending cold stop ruined it for me. I don't mind them changing things here and there, but that ending made me retroactively dislike the rest of the game somewhat. I also no longer care about the sequels to this. Throughout the game until the end, I was so fucking excited to see what the rest of the parts would be like, but the fact that I am not even going to buy them anymore kinda explains how much the ending killed my enthusiasm.
I liked the premise of it somewhat but good lord is the execution bad - in classic Square Enix old guard fashion. The writing is miles off what it should have been for the premise to work. Dissappointing but expected.
I can't no longer hope for the best after Cloud traveling through a black hole to the 'edge of creation' and Sephiroth spilling bullshit cryptic lines. If Ch. 18 represents the future narrative of the game, and we have no reason to believe is not the case, I can't be hopeful. Because is not about changing things, is about how I was feeling like playing Lightning Returns or Kingdom Hearts.
I'm not gonna detract people hopeful feelings for the sequel, nor their liking of this new direction. But I cannot be hopeful, with that ending because it embodies everything I hate of modern SE and exactly what VII never was.
I feel more surprising that people feels like this was an outlier a simple 'gotcha!' moment and next sequels will be like the first 90% of this one.
That's kind of where I am. I don't think modern Square-Enix is equipped to handle taking this story in a brand new direction. I can agree with people expressing excitement that the story can go anywhere ... but who's driving the car? They had the roadmap for Part 1 and followed it for 90% of the way, and now this 1997 classic is going to have a new narrative deviation handled by the person who brought us Kingdom Hearts 3.
I think it's extremely disingenuous to chalk up the quality of this game to just "following the OG games roadmap", they turned a 5 hour section of the original game into a full blown 40 hour game with incredible quality, the OG had no textures, no voice acting, no camera control, no faces, everything we've come to expect from video games since the PS2 era had to be completely reimagined from the ground up to work in a modern day video game. They had to take huge liberties with every aspect of the game, and for the most part they did an incredible job.
If you're disappointed that they aren't going to follow the OG story that's totally fine, but to pretend like this team just stumbled their way into a 90 opencritic game and shouldn't be trusted with anything that the OG game doesn't do is absurd.
If you're disappointed that they aren't going to follow the OG story that's totally fine, but to pretend like this team just stumbled their way into a 90 opencritic game and shouldn't be trusted with anything that the OG game doesn't do is absurd.
I mean it can certainly be interpreted that way but I don't think so. She came off like she was saying goodbye because Cloud was unconscious and she knew she had to run off to summon Holy, cause only she could stop Jenova and Sephiroth. However, Aerith made the mistake of telling Cloud her plan in his head, not know a piece of Jenova was in him. That's how Jenova knew she was there, and how it literally got the drop on her.
I never had doubts with the technical aspect of the game or for the sequels for that matter, I'm sure it will look and sound amazing. And again and again, is not about following the OG story.
(and isn't a 88 in OpenCritic?)
"I think it's extremely disingenuous to..."
*proceeds to lie about the opencritic score*
lol
That said, I do think you bring up a good point. For the first 16 chapters of this game, the devs demonstrated their ability to deliver not just a good game but one with fairly strong storytelling. It's entirely possible that they can deliver a high quality original story in the next two installments of this series. That said, that story wouldn't be FF7, which is what's disappointing so many people. We might get something good (might) but not only will it not be the thing that we wanted, but it's also not the thing that they led us to believe they were going to give us.
I like this approach.
After I beat the game, I wasn´t sure how to feel. The more in-depth in characters, the story and the life on Midgar, was for me so much better than expected, and why I loved FFVII Remake. But the end felt like "now everybody lives".
However, after a couple of days, I realized that this is probably the best approach. Now we don´t know what´s going to happen, and that´s great! It will be more shocking and impactful when things happen. I still believe Aerith is going to die but will happen when less you expected.
Wedge is most probably dead, and Biggs is mostly going to die, but his role could be a great addition to the story and gameplay. For instance, he could be a kind of leader for a new cell of Avalanche, which you could help on side quests.
The possibilities are endless, and that´s got me excited for the next installment.
I find this kind of logic interesting. "Breaking away from the old is fine". "But the new stuff they did was bad". "But, hey, new stuff."
The execution of the only really, really new stuff they did was typically modern SE terrible. No build up, no rhyme or reason, completely inconsistent with the rest of the game on both a thematic and aesthetic level. Even if you are generally okay with them not deciding to remake the game. Even if you are generally okay with the deception they used in marketing the game. Unless you really wanted more Kingdom Hearts or Compilation material, how in the world could you be happy with how they actually executed their plan? And the promise at the end of this one is...more of that is coming. Get excited.
This post just ignores the actual critique though. No one is saying all change is bad. The complaint is that the ending itself was incredible poorly executed to the point that it didn't even feel like the same game. The writing took an extremely noticeable nosedive in quality and the characters become basically unrecognizable, spouting off absurd dialogue not built up by anything.
Things being different isn't the problem, it's the way those things took place at the end of the game that severely reduces my faith in the writers moving forward. I simply do not understand how you make the first 99% of that game so good, and think that ending is acceptable to publish in any way. It's completely incongruous to the way the characters and world were portrayed in the rest of the game. It's almost comical.
I liked the game a lot overall, and am looking forward to them exploring the ramifications of straying off the path like that.
Nomura is trash and can't write a cohesive narrative if his life depended on it. All the stuff they added in the end was the most ham fisted, pointless way of letting the audience know they're gonna change shit big time. FFVII was already bombastic enough with its steampunk setting, ragtag group, cosmic horror, psychological thriller, kaiju battle, space travel, armageddon self. They were on the right track with expanding some of the stuff and doing a deeper dive, but the alternate angle they brought in at the end was absolutely awful and unnecessary. Some people eat up this meta slop, but it's a tired trope that seems to be shoehorned into everything now, whether it actually serves the narrative or not. Final Fantasy VII stands on it's own, and didn't need this garbage. People were sold on an expanded take on a classic and instead they got a weird meta sequel where the developers use Aerith as a mouthpiece to whine about what was expected of them and only wish to be set free. *eyeroll* It's amazing how 95% of this game was doing so well, and then just falls on it's face in the last hour (not to say that there weren't red flags sprinkled throughout). It should have been titled FFVII: You (Cannot) Go Home Again.
This ending makes part 2 100% more exciting the before.
If we just take the same exact main story and add a few chapter in between the people who already played the OG game won't have any surprises or things to look forward in future parts of the game.
Of course I think the most iconic moments of the game should not be changed but what about new options for alternate endings. Somebody posted a path A and B where you can save or not different characters. For me that would be insanely fun and we could still see the iconic moments of the game but also have a different path/reality where you can change the original story and see what would happen if you could actually save everyone.
I finished the game last night and I'm even more exicited now for part 2.
If we just take the same exact main story and add a few chapter in between the people who already played the OG game won't have any surprises or things to look forward in future parts of the game.
Of course I think the most iconic moments of the game should not be changed but what about new options for alternate endings. Somebody posted a path A and B where you can save or not different characters. For me that would be insanely fun and we could still see the iconic moments of the game but also have a different path/reality where you can change the original story and see what would happen if you could actually save everyone.
I finished the game last night and I'm even more exicited now for part 2.
I didn't like the ending at all, I couldn't decide whether I was watching a Harry Potter movie or a Kingdom Hearts game, but it certainly didn't feel like a Final Fantasy game.