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Did you like Final Fantasy VII Remake's ending?

  • I liked the ending and I've played the original FFVII

    Votes: 1,410 59.2%
  • I did not like the ending and I've played the original FFVII

    Votes: 651 27.3%
  • I liked the ending and I did not play the original FFVII

    Votes: 238 10.0%
  • I did not like the ending and I did not play the original FFVII

    Votes: 84 3.5%

  • Total voters
    2,383
May 26, 2018
23,999
I like the ending specifically in spite of the surface level details. I like that it is a game commenting and iterating an what came before, with a really poignant message about what it means to be a Creator trying to battle with the legacy and expectations of what they made before.

That doesn't really sound surface level to me lol.

The surface level stuff with the ending is what was executed poorly. The deeper stuff was what worked.

It's an interesting philosophical point, but is it better than having a compelling story that makes sense and is populated by relative approximations of human beings? I don't think so. But that's Nomura. You come to love his work because it's disconnected from any attempts at reality.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,770
I mean, I didn't respond to it because I didn't see the need to argue with someone why they should like it. My post was to someone who was upset that people liked the ending because it might be bad. Regardless of all else, I'll wait to see how they stick the landing to decide whether I like the landing. But the potential for bad does not require me to dislike it.

But since you insist


First of all, just because I worked at GI doesn't mean I am obliged to agree with everyone who ever works there. Alex feeling that way means it's Alex's opinions. I don't think a tinge of confusion is necessarily a bad thing for a story, especially one built from the ground up with multiple parts.

I have no idea what they plan to do with Sephiroth. It's possible that they plan to hit all the same story beats and they fucked it up right here, sure. Maybe all this ending did was make Sephiroth look weaker when he does not hit these same highs later. Maybe they change it and realized that establishing a high baseline early on gives them the opportunity to toy with it later.

I feel like what you are not getting here is that I like this because I don't know what they're going to do with it next. It could be a total mess, sure! But I'm way more excited about part II now with the knowledge that they've essentially written themselves into a corner than I would have been if I knew beat-by-beat what that game is going to be. If it sucks, it sucks, but I'd rather they go for it and it sucks than this thing ending with a fight against Motor Ball.

I like to see things I love poked and prodded and dissected by its creators. I'm far more interested in their autopsy reports than their necromancy.
What do you think of FF15, Kingdom hearts 3 and some of the Directors and Writers recent stuff?
 

Bradford

terminus est
Member
Aug 12, 2018
5,423
It's an interesting philosophical point, but is it better than having a compelling story that makes sense and is populated by relative approximations of human beings? I don't think so. But that's Nomura. You come to love his work because it's disconnected from any attempts at reality.
I felt that all the characters were human and the narrative had a very human core. Again, the execution left a lot to be desired and I could have done without the big setpiece, but the narrative thematics are what kept me tied in.

I don't think Grounded Plot automatically makes a good narrative. Lots of surreal, philosophical stuff have really amazing character work and writing. I wish the ending wasn't as bombastic as it was, but I am here for the characters and character writing.

FWIW, I don't like Kingdom Hearts or most other Nomura work. I think this is the first time he has nailed a really clear and focused narrative through line. It's just the surface level plot that ended a little weakly.
 
May 15, 2019
2,448
I like the ending specifically in spite of the surface level details. I like that it is a game commenting and iterating an what came before, with a really poignant message about what it means to be a Creator trying to battle with the legacy and expectations of what they made before.

That doesn't really sound surface level to me lol.

The surface level stuff with the ending is what was executed poorly. The deeper stuff was what worked.
There's nothing interesting about the creators crying that nobody likes the garbage they've been making for the past fifteen years so they had to trick people into playing a new Final Fantasy game. I am not interesting in a metatextual reading of the people that work at Square Enix.
 
May 26, 2018
23,999
I felt that all the characters were human and the narrative had a very human core. Again, the execution left a lot to be desired and I could have done without the big setpiece, but the narrative thematics are what kept me tied in.

And it mostly had those things because it was aping the original. Now it's likely time to enter the kind of world populated by characters like Genesis and Xehanort, where it's all a fever dream of anime nonsense.

Which can be thoroughly enjoyable, but for completely different reasons than the original FF7 was.
 

Bradford

terminus est
Member
Aug 12, 2018
5,423
There's nothing interesting about the creators crying that nobody likes the garbage they've been making for the past fifteen years so they had to trick people into playing a new Final Fantasy game. I am not interesting in a metatextual reading of the people that work at Square Enix.
This game isn't crying about the compilation though. It is a celebration of it, and of all of its fans. It has throwbacks and references to even the books that barely anyone has read. The game isn't crying about it, it's reflecting on it.

For all your posturing about it only being good for people who like surface level stuff, it seems like what you wanted was a surface level remake of FF7? That's not a bad thing, but it is pretty much exactly what the game is commenting on. You might not want what you got, but that doesn't mean it has nothing going on under the surface.

And it mostly had those things because it was aping the original. Now it's likely time to enter the kind of world populated by characters like Genesis and Xehanort, where it's all a fever dream of anime nonsense.

Which can be thoroughly enjoyable, but for completely different reasons than the original FF7 was.
I am pretty sure the rest in just gonna be a pretty close remake of the original with just a few variables swapped. A new Game Plus run with slightly different variables. It will still have all the setpieces fans love, just with some changes. I don't think there will be any Xehanorts or Organization members popping up out of nowhere. Just like this one was.
 
May 15, 2019
2,448
This game isn't crying about the compilation though. It is a celebration of it, and of all of its fans. It has throwbacks and references to even the books that barely anyone has read. The game isn't crying about it, it's reflecting on it.

For all your posturing about it only being good for people who like surface level stuff, it seems like what you wanted was a surface level remake of FF7? That's not a bad thing, but it is pretty much exactly what the game is commenting on. You might not want what you got, but that doesn't mean it has nothing going on underwthe surface.
I only wanted to go back because they said that's what they were doing. If Square Enix never remade FF7 in my entire lifetime I would have been perfectly content. And by garbage I don't mean just the Compilation, I mean literally everything Square Enix has been putting out for almost two decades. They're sad about having to constantly live in the shadow of FF7, but don't realize that's only because they went on to make a bunch of toothless melodramatic garbage afterwards.
 

Deleted member 56266

Account closed at user request
Banned
Apr 25, 2019
7,291
I loved it and FF7 is one of my favorite games of all time. Seeing a new story in this world (even though I predict it won't really be too new) is fascinating.
 
May 26, 2018
23,999
This game isn't crying about the compilation though. It is a celebration of it, and of all of its fans. It has throwbacks and references to even the books that barely anyone has read. The game isn't crying about it, it's reflecting on it.

For all your posturing about it only being good for people who like surface level stuff, it seems like what you wanted was a surface level remake of FF7? That's not a bad thing, but it is pretty much exactly what the game is commenting on. You might not want what you got, but that doesn't mean it has nothing going on under the surface.


I am pretty sure the rest in just gonna be a pretty close remake of the original with just a few variables swapped. A new Game Plus run with slightly different variables. It will still have all the setpieces fans love, just with some changes. I don't think there will be any Xehanorts or Organization members popping up out of nowhere.

But doing a sequel that is still mostly faithful to the original defeats the entire purpose of the ending. They're free now to make a new story because they didn't want to be tied to nostalgic demands anymore.
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,545
I only wanted to go back because they said that's what they were doing. If Square Enix never remade FF7 in my entire lifetime I would have been perfectly content. And by garbage I don't mean just the Compilation, I mean literally everything Square Enix has been putting out for almost two decades. They're sad about having to constantly live in the shadow of FF7, but don't realize that's only because they went on to make a bunch of toothless melodramatic garbage afterwards.

A video game company staying in business for 23 years despite not making a single good video game is pretty impressive though right?
 

Bradford

terminus est
Member
Aug 12, 2018
5,423
But doing a sequel that is still mostly faithful to the original defeats the entire purpose of the ending. They're free now to make a new story because they didn't want to be tied to nostalgic demands anymore.
The point of the ending is that these characters will not be doomed to their fates from the original, not that they will not go on a completely different journey altogether. All of the major plot points from the first game are still set up to happen -- the Gang still needs to stop Sephiroth, Go to Cosmo Canyon, stop Jenova, who is free again, etc. None of that stopped existing just because they beat the Whispers. The only thing stopped is the Whispers' constant Canon Enforcement trying to get people to die where they did in the original.

I have no doubt things will change, they need to, but I still think we are gonna get all the hits.
 

Deleted member 5596

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
7,747
I am pretty sure the rest in just gonna be a pretty close remake of the original with just a few variables swapped. A new Game Plus run with slightly different variables. It will still have all the setpieces fans love, just with some changes. I don't think there will be any Xehanorts or Organization members popping up out of nowhere. Just like this one was.

Would people ok after being promised a full reimagining going back to just a simple remake? What's the point of cementing a whole metanarrative about breaking the chains of fate to end doing the same game again?

Like the game already jumped the shark, what's the point of this whole mess to go back to a safe remake?
 

MrChocolate

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,412
I liked the ending, and I have beaten FFVII at least once every year since 2003. Nomura is a hack? Sure. But we were warned since the first trailer in 2015 that things weren't going to be like the original game, as perfect as it was.
I'm more worried by Part 2 to be quite honest. I don't think Square can nail the open world aspect of FFVII with this kind of tech.
 

Bradford

terminus est
Member
Aug 12, 2018
5,423
I meant specifically from the Final Fantasy side of things. Dragon Quest does quite well and they even bought Eidos so they can shift the blame to them whenever financials aren't working out.
I mean, FF11, 12, and 14 really don't exist in the shadow of 7 much if at all. And all of those are great games?
 

Phendrana

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,048
Melbourne, Australia
First of all, just because I worked at GI doesn't mean I am obliged to agree with everyone who ever works there. Alex feeling that way means it's Alex's opinions.
I actually first wrote this post yesterday and had already posted it in the spoiler thread. The line about Alex was not added because of you. I actually didn't realize you were the Imran, lol.

I think calling it a 'tinge of confusion' is a pretty charitable way of looking at it, though.

I have no idea what they plan to do with Sephiroth. It's possible that they plan to hit all the same story beats and they fucked it up right here, sure. Maybe all this ending did was make Sephiroth look weaker when he does not hit these same highs later. Maybe they change it and realized that establishing a high baseline early on gives them the opportunity to toy with it later.
Again, it feels like you're honing in on future ramifications. I'm critical of what we see of Sephiroth in THIS game, and I feel my reasons for that are pretty solid.

I feel like what you are not getting here is that I like this because I don't know what they're going to do with it next.
I...haven't made any claims as to why you like the ending?

I can understand being excited about the possibilities going forward, even if that personally was not what I wanted from a Remake.
 

Deleted member 54073

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 22, 2019
3,983
The original is my favourite game of all time, and while I didn't necessarily love the concept/execution of the Whispers, I really like the implications at the end.

I want to see their new take on the story. I'll always have the original to go back to if I want to experience it again.

It's a bold decision and I wanna see where they take us. And I have loads of theories so this makes it fresh and exciting for me again.
This this this
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,545
I meant specifically from the Final Fantasy side of things. Dragon Quest does quite well and they even bought Eidos so they can shift the blame to them whenever financials aren't working out.

You should take a glance at any SE financial report from the last 5 years or so. Final Fantasy is by far their most profitable franchise, and this gen has been by far their most profitable in the history of the company, pre and post merger.
 

Faddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,133
I liked it. But ultimately they didn't change too many of the details.

What they did is kill the original timelime. So how much this plot line is a successful story really relies on future games and the decisions they make there. If everything just stays the same until the end of the story then there was no point in making the investments to change the state of the world in this one.

Now any character can live or die. Nothing is set in stone.

I don't think they have dealt themselves a free hand though. They need to continue to tell the story of FF7 and there does need to be some resolution to changed timelines. So if anything they have ramped up the stakes on needing to nail both of these elements instead of just following along with the events of the old game.
 
May 15, 2019
2,448
I mean, FF11, 12, and 14 really don't exist in the shadow of 7 much if at all. And all of those are great games?
None of the titles the big names attached to Remake have been involved with recently have had the same kind of fan/critical/sales success 7 did. 15 managed to topple 7's sales and had better fan reception than Nomura and Toriyama's stuff, and they cancelled all the DLC and the director Tabata left. Between that and the ending my only takeaway is there's frustration at the higher creative levels at Square Enix.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,297
Having had a bit of time to reflect on the ending now, I love it and played the original (my favourite game of all time). But I think I like the concept more than the execution In this game. I really quite enjoyed the final battles (even though I found them oddly easier than many other bosses in the game), but there is a slight tonal and narrative whiplash where the game moves from the content of the 'original' expanded into completely uncharted territory. I think it is mostly because the ramp up in terms of pacing is kinda hokey leading into the final events that unfold. All told I am excited to see where they go next but I hope they still keep one eye on telling a story that deals with themes that relate to the real world allegory or otherwise. I just hope they don't veer too far into telling a story that doesn't have the bite of really saying anything. I think ending in tact, the game is a phenomenal package though even with its flaws.
 

vic viper

Member
Dec 27, 2017
307
Regardless of the implications, it's horribly written and shows absolutely zero restraint. To go from the motorcycle boss that actually endcaps Midgar to fighting Sephiroth to One Winged Angel while the meteor is in the background within 20 minutes, when he has no arc or real purpose in this game was just silly. It dilutes the future fights you'll actually have with him, the actual slow reveal of him with the shinra blood trail and the flashback showing how strong he was in combat.

But then there are the implications, that they broke destiny and can now forge their own path. When the thing this game actually nailed are the remade ff7 moments, and the worst part was the ghosts showing up. If they showed they're actually great at making the big ff7 moments again, the last direction Inwanted to see this go was forging an original path ahead. Especially when their attempt at doing so in the ending already shows them going full Kingdom Hearts level of crap.
This is precisely how I feel.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,770
None of the titles the big names attached to Remake have been involved with recently have had the same kind of fan/critical/sales success 7 did. 15 managed to topple 7's sales and had better fan reception than Nomura and Toriyama's stuff, and they cancelled all the DLC and the director Tabata left. Between that and the ending my only takeaway is there's frustration at the higher creative levels at Square Enix.
Why would there be frustration?
 

ScionN7

Member
Oct 26, 2019
1,332
The only thing I didn't like about the ending was fighting Sephiroth. I felt like they blew their load way too early with that one.

Actually now that I think about it, we should've fought Jenova Dreamweaver there instead of Sephy.
 

Deleted member 5596

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
7,747
The only thing I didn't like about the ending was fighting Sephiroth. I felt like they blew their load way too early with that one.

Actually now that I think about it, we should've fought Jenova Dreamweaver there instead of Sephy.

Or maybe just normal Sephi -Wutai war era-. Even going with Sephi as a boss fight, you could have done much better than jumping straight to AC Sephiroth.
 

SunBroDave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,144
The point of the ending is that these characters will not be doomed to their fates from the original, not that they will not go on a completely different journey altogether. All of the major plot points from the first game are still set up to happen -- the Gang still needs to stop Sephiroth, Go to Cosmo Canyon, stop Jenova, who is free again, etc. None of that stopped existing just because they beat the Whispers. The only thing stopped is the Whispers' constant Canon Enforcement trying to get people to die where they did in the original.

I have no doubt things will change, they need to, but I still think we are gonna get all the hits.
I mean, those two things are philosophically opposite ideas. Where a character ends up is a direct result of all the stops along the way. You don't get to go to all the same stops and end up in a different place (and vice versa - you don't get to go to different stops but end up at the same place).
 
May 26, 2018
23,999
After all the characters were just revived, do people really have confidence that there will still be death coming?

I said it earlier, but playing this fast and loose with your own story sets up an expectation that death is cheap. The plate fell... and Biggs survived completely intact. Would anyone like to explain how that physically happens when he's in the exact structure that collapses with... what, countless thousands of tons of concrete smashing down upon him? Did the Whispers collapse the plate, and not the Turks?

Did he get Sephiroth powers?

Did some rando climb up into the collapsing tower and drag his body out before it collapsed?

How was he rushed to get medical service to save him from the jaws of death, considering the chaos?
 
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ScionN7

Member
Oct 26, 2019
1,332
Aerith living would be such a mistake. For many reasons, but one being that people would accuse Kitase, Nomura and Nojima of not making a 1:1 and changing the story, just for the purpose of keeping Aerith alive. It wouldn't look good.

I do believe Aerith will die, but her death will probably be different in Remake. I can see them teasing that we'll get to save her in this timeline, but as the story progresses, it'll become clear that her death is necessary to save the Planet, so she may end up sacrificing herself.
 

Bradford

terminus est
Member
Aug 12, 2018
5,423
I mean, those two things are philosophically opposite ideas. Where a character ends up is a direct result of all the stops along the way. You don't get to go to all the same stops and end up in a different place (and vice versa - you don't get to go to different stops but end up at the same place).
I don't think they are? I think all of the steps along the way will be similar, but the outcomes of events at the stops will be different, meaning that in the end, we will have a different result. Like, I have no doubt we will be heading to the forgotten capital again, with the major difference being who is alive and how that event plays out. How the tiniest ripples can have ramifications.

I don't think it's a surefire slam dunk but I think that's what is being set up. Feel free to bookmark this post and dunk on me in 3-5 years if Part 2 in drastically different and the events of the original aren't major key points. Full license to do so. I just think they are setting up what will effectively be a Good Ending New Game Plus run.

I don't think nothing will be different -- there will be changes and additions just like this one, but I think the idea that it's gonna be a completely unrecognizably different game and story that utterly abandons the structure of the original is a little silly.

Now whether or not Nomura and Co can deliver on this setup is entirely up for debate. I am expecting Cloud to save Aerith in a very trophy anime Gotcha way and I am bracing for how stupid it will be.
 
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Deleted member 5596

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Oct 25, 2017
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I don't think they are? I think all of the steps along the way will be similar, but the outcomes of events at the stops will be different, meaning that in the end, wo will have a different result. Like, I have no doubt we will be heading to the forgotten capital again, with the major difference being who is alive and how that event plays out. How the tiniest ripples can have ramifications.

But then you said:

I am pretty sure the rest in just gonna be a pretty close remake of the original with just a few variables swapped.

Are you sure, you know what you want out of this? lol
 

Papercuts

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,012
Chokeslamming destiny itself just to follow the footsteps of the original not only does't make sense, but doesn't that go against why people that like the ending actually like it?

Like do people want a remake or not?
 

Deleted member 5596

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Aerith living would be such a mistake. For many reasons, but one being that people would accuse Kitase, Nomura and Nojima of not making a 1:1 and changing the story, just for the purpose of keeping Aerith alive. It wouldn't look good.

I do believe Aerith will die, but her death will probably be different in Remake. I can see them teasing that we'll get to save her in this timeline, but as the story progresses, it'll become clear that her death is necessary to save the Planet, so she may end up sacrificing herself.

Not that I feel Aerith shouldn't die now, but it would be dissapointed that she ends with the same character arc as in the original: sacrificng herself for the planet. It would be more interesting if she didn't sacrificed because there wasn't any need to do so, but she gets killed anyway but this time she really wanted to live instead of just acepting her death and waiting for it.
 

ScionN7

Member
Oct 26, 2019
1,332
Chokeslamming destiny itself just to follow the footsteps of the original not only does't make sense, but doesn't that go against why people that like the ending actually like it?

Like do people want a remake or not?

You say that like we'll be 100% following the same path and witnessing the same events play out in the same way, when that's not what's been established. I mean yes we'll most likely follow the same path, but there will probably be minor and sometimes major changes to how some of the major beats of the original story play out.
 

OutofMana

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,071
California
Chokeslamming destiny itself just to follow the footsteps of the original not only does't make sense, but doesn't that go against why people that like the ending actually like it?

Like do people want a remake or not?
The whole game is being sold on nostalgia and so I doubt they will not try to do some of the important key moments. At that point, why even have the twist if you're going to include those call backs? I have a feeling it's just going to end up being the new Star Wars trilogy. With the last part being a convoluted mess to please the fans after drastically changing everything in the second part.

They could always go the compilation route and milk the franchise again for all it's worth.
 

ScionN7

Member
Oct 26, 2019
1,332
Not that I feel Aerith shouldn't die now, but it would be dissapointed that she ends with the same character arc as in the original: sacrificng herself for the planet. It would be more interesting if she didn't sacrificed because there wasn't any need to do so, but she gets killed anyway but this time she really wanted to live instead of just acepting her death and waiting for it.

I'd like that too. But I don't believe she sacrificed herself in the original. She wanted to summon holy with no intention of dying.
 

Bradford

terminus est
Member
Aug 12, 2018
5,423
I don't think it needs to be all or nothing like many people seem to think it does; defeating the whispers is defeating the predetermined fate the characters had before. Now they are not fated to die. They are free to live and alter their choices -- but that didn't change that the Reunionists are still out there trying to bring Jenova and, Sephiroth together. That is still the goal, and Aerith seems dead set on stopping him (again). The only difference is that the whispers aren't around to ensure fate's course. Nothing about that really sets up or implies that, say, the Temple of the Ancients no longer exists, or that the Forgotten Capital and Nibelheim are suddenly no longer relevant. We still saw visions of Meteor, Wutai is still set up (perhaps even moreso) as an opposing nation the gang will still go to, and the Turks and Rufus are still chasing Aerith.

Like, it seems like the message to me was that this was about toying with ideas. Altering things and seeing where the pieces fall this time. What does an FF7 look like if Cloud has hints that Aerith may die? What does an FF7 look like where Jessie and Biggs and Wedge don't die. Where does that put our protags? Will the team run into Jessie at the Golden Saucer, and will Wedge end up helping them exfiltrate from Wutai? Will Biggs be there for Marlene and the rest of the slum children? Are those changes big enough to ensure Sephiroth's total annihilation?

Now that they aren't being hounded by whispers we can see this play out. It will undeniably bring change, but it will be in the form of rippling consequences, not a total rewrite.

You say that like we'll be 100% following the same path and witnessing the same events play out in the same way, when that's not what's been established. I mean yes we'll most likely follow the same path, but there will probably be minor and sometimes major changes to how some of the major beats of the original story play out.
Basically this.
 
May 26, 2018
23,999
Chokeslamming destiny itself just to follow the footsteps of the original not only does't make sense, but doesn't that go against why people that like the ending actually like it?

Like do people want a remake or not?

I think people like the twist ending because it's atypical and flashy, and allows SE to remake the story however they see fit, without having to answer to salty fans. Even if they ultimately change very little except for the context of the events.

So the same things could happen with very different emotions behind them. People want nostalgia, but moreso they want to be challenged, perhaps regardless of the content. But they have to be dragged away from The Old like an addict; only then will they appreciate the effort.

They want old things... but old things new. A revolution that ends in the same place. It's kinda weird to parse.
 

Deleted member 5596

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Oct 25, 2017
7,747
You say that like we'll be 100% following the same path and witnessing the same events play out in the same way, when that's not what's been established. I mean yes we'll most likely follow the same path, but there will probably be minor and sometimes major changes to how some of the major beats of the original story play out.

But that's what the remake was doing before making all this metanarrative thing.
 

Benzychenz

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 1, 2017
15,379
Australia
Hated it. The execution was terrible.

The game goes from a semi grounded fighting an evil power company to anime battles cutting down buildings and killing gods just like that. Not to mention they barely have a motivation to 'fight destiny'.
The ghosts have been helping them half the time and 5 minutes prior brought Barret back to life.

If they wanted to do a new story they should have just done that and been up front about it. We didn't need this Nomura nonsense to justify it.