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Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
22,961
There's probably better places than Kotaku for this.
Specifically to cover the intersection of porn and video games? Not really. This article was poorly done but I don't see the problem with Kotaku covering the subject in general. Society really needs to have a discussion about this subject because it affects peoples' lives. Getting involved in rule 34 internet communities led to me being sexually abused by online predators, and that has happened to way more people than just me. Yeah I think it should be discussed by mainstream media.
That editor's update is still not good enough.



I can only imagine how some "enlightened progressives" on this board feel about sex work and workers.
You don't need to imagine, they will straight up tell you
 

Mr. Genuine

Member
Mar 23, 2018
1,618
I find it bothersome if someone's so far gone that they don't see a problem with posting pornographic images of underaged characters, even if they're 'merely' drawn, as part of their article for everyone to see.

Yeah that very obviously isn't what I was talking about. I was responding to someone suggesting that there is something wrong with her watching porn and writing articles about porn.
 

Hagi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,950
I find it bothersome if someone's so far gone that they don't see a problem with posting pornographic images of underaged characters, even if they're 'merely' drawn, as part of their article for everyone to see.

You'd think this would be the perfect point for an editor to like do their job and pull it back. This article should have in now way made it onto the site in the form it did.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
22,961
Great point. It's a shame the article didn't actually address that with any finesse. Like 0 finesse, it's just a description of the pictures. Would love to see a well thought out discussion on the topic. Didn't they have an article with that SFM porn studio that did that Lara Croft video? I remember it being well researched, but that was a long time ago.

There's a lot of great work from Kotaku like the reporting from D'Anastasio and Schrier, but this seemed half baked and way quick out the door, even if there was some hints of an interesting topic within.
Yup, agreed. Gray completely bungled this article, but the topic itself is worthy of discussion.
I understand your point. Got nothing against people in the porn industry.
Mmk, good.
 

Noodle

Banned
Aug 22, 2018
3,427
Last time I checked the UK wasn't rounding up the all the teenagers writing smutty Harry Potter fanfiction and throwing them in prison so I don't think anyone has anything to worry about.


Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Norway, Switzerland, and the UK have jailed people over possession of "manga-like" images.

 

TinfoilHatsROn

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,119
Imagine being so fucked in your head that you think posting an article about underage r34 (and also posting actual gifs LMAO) is not only okay but DEMANDING that such porn be better quality.

It's like those weebs who think their Loli sexualized anime is totally a normal thing to show their non pedo friends LOL.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,497
I find it bothersome if someone's so far gone that they don't see a problem with posting pornographic images of underaged characters, even if they're 'merely' drawn, as part of their article for everyone to see.

This. And i just read her overwatch article. She starts off by saying she "stumbled" across Overwatch porn, because it's all over the internet. What a coincidence right? I mean, I can't say I ever have stumbled across it myself. She just isn't very interesting with the way she writes about it and clearly tries to be entertaining to a crowd by making up stories. This one about watching video game porn with a porn actress while cuddling her dog is just strange.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 9317

User requested account closure
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Oct 26, 2017
9,451
New York
im gonna need some kind of pie chart for this one
QhvwxuL.jpg
 

Naga

Alt account
Banned
Aug 29, 2019
7,850
Specifically to cover the intersection of porn and video games? Not really. This article was poorly done but I don't see the problem with Kotaku covering the subject in general. Society really needs to have a discussion about this subject because it affects peoples' lives. Getting involved in rule 34 internet communities led to me being sexually abused by online predators, and that has happened to way more people than just me. Yeah I think it should be discussed by mainstream media.
So you think the same kind of article would have been fine on Eurogamer or Polygon for example? Even pushing past the underage issue?
Mainstream media talking about sexuality is good. I'm not sure videogame websites are there to talk about that. I can only see Vice talking properly about that tbh, mostly because they're not video game focused.

edit: and to go back on topic (this isn't about mainstream media talking about porn), this article should have never been approved in the first place. There's no excuse.
 

LavaBadger

Member
Nov 14, 2017
4,988
This seems like a huge miss in editorial oversight. What are editors there for if not to stop someone from posting images of animated pornography? (To say nothing of the underage angle, which is a whole wildly terrible other piece of this.) There are ways you can cover these topics in thoughtful, critical, and meaningful ways I'm sure. This was not one of them.

What editor at Kotaku looked at this and said, "Yes, this has merit on our website."
 

Naga

Alt account
Banned
Aug 29, 2019
7,850
This seems like a huge miss in editorial oversight. What are editors there for if not to stop someone from posting images of animated pornography? (To say nothing of the underage angle, which is a whole wildly terrible other piece of this.) There are ways you can cover these topics in thoughtful, critical, and meaningful ways I'm sure. This was not one of them.

What editor at Kotaku looked at this and said, "Yes, this has merit on our website."
The same editor that didn't really put much care in his excuse about this article.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
22,961
Reading a Kotaku article is not the same as downloading the images onto your computer. You think people go to prison because they googled an anime character and Google Images pulls up some hentai?

Like yeah, maybe if you downloaded the pictures posted in this article in the UK you would have a problem. Do not do that. Otherwise the handwringing in this thread is ridiculous. (Also it seems like this guy is the one of the only people ever charged with this and the government has repeatedly targeted him alone over it which seems...excessive. If they really wanted to stop this they'd go after the websites hosting it in the UK, which the article notes are many, rather than some random person.)
 

Bufbaf

Don't F5!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,663
Hamburg, Germany
This issue is and will be an all-you-can-eat buffet for Gamergate leftovers, the "lol games journalism" crowd and the general anti Kotaku front.

Man, what a huge mistake.
 
Jun 26, 2018
3,829
Reading a Kotaku article is not the same as downloading the images onto your computer. You think people go to prison because they googled an anime character and Google Images pulls up some hentai?

Like yeah, maybe if you downloaded the pictures posted in this article in the UK you would have a problem. Do not do that. Otherwise the handwringing in this thread is ridiculous. (Also it seems like this guy is the one of the only people ever charged with this and the government has repeatedly targeted him alone over it which seems...excessive. If they really wanted to stop this they'd go after the websites hosting it in the UK, which the article notes are many, rather than some random person.)

Just gonna point out that any image you see in your browser gets downloaded to your computer and gets cached in a temporary files folder where it could stay for quite some time unless manually removed or enough time passes.
 

Jebusman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,087
Halifax, NS
Like, I just did a google search for Misty (with safe search off), and it did not take long for arguably sexual images to pop up, including one with nudity. No explicit sex, but I'm sure a quick trip to a million different image galleries/communities could solve that.

The internet has always collectively turned a blind eye to this stuff, simply because it's fictional. Ignoring it/handwaving it away leads to complacency, and complacency leads to articles like this where someone can post this stuff and seemingly, at no point in the process, genuinely think about what they're doing. And what this porn is depicting. They don't think of it in the same terms as real porn simply "because" it's fictional. No one is being "harmed" by fictional depictions. They're not "real".

And since there's no way on Earth you'd ever be able to have any sort of objective study on the effects of the availability of fictional depictions of child pornography, they'll hide behind the "it's not real what's the big deal" excuse for as long as possible because it's on you to prove it's harmful, rather than them to prove it's not.

It's extra hard when countries like Japan fight so hard against laws that would start to restrict stuff like this, usually in the name of artistic freedom and under the guise of fighting "censorship".

This seems like a huge miss in editorial oversight. What are editors there for if not to stop someone from posting images of animated pornography? (To say nothing of the underage angle, which is a whole wildly terrible other piece of this.) There are ways you can cover these topics in thoughtful, critical, and meaningful ways I'm sure. This was not one of them.

What editor at Kotaku looked at this and said, "Yes, this has merit on our website."

I fully believe this article was written and approved by the sole metric of "horny kids will click on this". This is the equivalent of writing an article about Fortnite porno, and simply picking other random properties kids might have been interested in and not really thinking too far beyond that. This kind of stuff really is common the moment you wander away from the "mainstream" internet. It's a testament to how much people genuinely don't stop and think about what this stuff is actually depicting.

Just gonna point out that any image you see in your browser gets downloaded to your computer and gets cached in a temporary files folder where it could stay for quite some time unless manually removed or enough time passes.

Also want to point out if your temp folder is on a traditional HDD, even after deleting the files they may linger until that data is eventually overwritten (if ever).
 

Bit_Reactor

Banned
Apr 9, 2019
4,413
Yeah that very obviously isn't what I was talking about. I was responding to someone suggesting that there is something wrong with her watching porn and writing articles about porn.
It'd be very interesting to see the different types of speculation if the writer was male.

That being said, it seems really weird to have that topic of article readily available and that the writing style, specifically towards the tail end of the article, seemed more like a blog post than any specific takeaways from the piece. It's just "And then we watched this porn." And I guess there's a place for that, but I dunno it just seems like a REALLY low bar to set for coverage of a specific topic, especially one so sensitive as this.
 

Rotobit

Editor at Nintendo Wire
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
10,196
Like, I just did a google search for Misty (with safe search off), and it did not take long for arguably sexual images to pop up, including one with nudity. No explicit sex, but I'm sure a quick trip to a million different image galleries/communities could solve that.

as someone who has to google image search video games a lot, a lot of weird fetish art or straight up porn pops up when you google what should be innocent phrases. Sonic's cast goes without saying, but I was once trying to get a pic of a Zelda Chu Chu and there was something lewd on the second line featuring Toon Link. This was with safesearch on, too.

The algorithm system is a mess and it's such a process to report things it's no wonder searching for images is a minefield of this stuff

Also for what it's worth, I feel like there should be a law against using digital models of real-world celebs like this. It's basically Deep Fakery.
 

jschreier

Press Sneak Fuck
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,096
Y'all pinging me - I don't run Kotaku and had nothing to do with this. There's an updated editor's note on the article. I'll leave it at that.
 

Naga

Alt account
Banned
Aug 29, 2019
7,850
Well feel free to explain then.
You're an editor at Kotaku, there's an editor note at the bottom of the article (whether it's been written by a colleague or your boss), and you "leave it at that". If you've read that note and think there's nothing to add (not you personally, but if you think this is a good official excuse from Kotkau as a whole), I'm not sure what to think.

edit: well nevermind, sorry for the one, I completely misunderstood it as "there's a new criticism" or similar. Not "there's a new editor note".
Will check it.
 

Cerulean_skylark

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account.
Banned
Oct 31, 2017
6,408
Just gonna point out that any image you see in your browser gets downloaded to your computer and gets cached in a temporary files folder where it could stay for quite some time unless manually removed or enough time passes.

To get a conviction, prosecutors have to establish intent. In all of these cases individuals intended to access content and actively sought it out, how do you think the police handle issues of harassment by spamming of porn images? Or how about someone flooding a random message board with it? (it happens) They KNOW not to try to prosecute someone for accidentally seeing something they weren't trying to find.
 

Fat4all

Woke up, got a money tag, swears a lot
Member
Oct 25, 2017
92,905
here
there doesn't seem to be any images on the article, did they remove them all?
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
22,961
So you think the same kind of article would have been fine on Eurogamer or Polygon for example? Even pushing past the underage issue?
Mainstream media talking about sexuality is good. I'm not sure videogame websites are there to talk about that. I can only see Vice talking properly about that tbh, mostly because they're not video game focused.

edit: and to go back on topic (this isn't about mainstream media talking about porn), this article should have never been approved in the first place. There's no excuse.
I think it's fine for Kotaku to cover this subject. They cover abusive work environments, sexual abuse inside the game industry, and many other sensitive topics. This article was poorly done but I don't see why it would be impossible for Kotaku to have a good article on this subject.
You'd think more effort would be put into it then. That article wouldn't even be on Vice ffs.
Yeah they absolutely should
Just gonna point out that any image you see in your browser gets downloaded to your computer and gets cached in a temporary files folder where it could stay for quite some time unless manually removed or enough time passes.
Right but it would be associated with the Kotaku article in question. No one is going to jail for looking at this article, that's all I'm saying.
 

jschreier

Press Sneak Fuck
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,096
Well feel free to explain then.
You're an editor at Kotaku, there's an editor note at the bottom of the article (whether it's been written by a colleague or your boss), and you "leave it at that". If you've read that note and think there's nothing to add, I'm not sure what to think.
I don't think you're understanding me. There's a new editor's note that went up ten minutes ago. I'll leave it at that and refer you to our editor-in-chief if you have more questions or concerns.
 

Saikyo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,339
Can you post it cause I'd rather not have to scroll though Zelda getting raped.
New editor note here:
Editor's Note - 5:25pm:
This story, part of our regular coverage of the intersection of sex and games, originally included screenshots from several porn parodies with a note that they were Not Safe For Work. We've since removed those images. While the intent of this article was to provide a snapshot of the kind of gaming and geek porn that's out there now, it's clear in retrospect that, in terms of the images and the analysis you expect from us, we made a mistake. Readers are understandably uncomfortable about these kinds of depictions of characters who are often depicted as or thought of as teenagers. I am, too and apologize. We can do better, and we will. - Stephen Totilo, Editor-in-Chief
Also the article has no pictures now.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
Like, I just did a google search for Misty (with safe search off), and it did not take long for arguably sexual images to pop up, including one with nudity. No explicit sex, but I'm sure a quick trip to a million different image galleries/communities could solve that.

The internet has always collectively turned a blind eye to this stuff, simply because it's fictional. Ignoring it/handwaving it away leads to complacency, and complacency leads to articles like this where someone can post this stuff and seemingly, at no point in the process, genuinely think about what they're doing. And what this porn is depicting. They don't think of it in the same terms as real porn simply "because" it's fictional. No one is being "harmed" by fictional depictions. They're not "real".

And since there's no way on Earth you'd ever be able to have any sort of objective study on the effects of the availability of fictional depictions of child pornography, they'll hide behind the "it's not real what's the big deal" excuse for as long as possible because it's on you to prove it's harmful, rather than them to prove it's not.

It's extra hard when countries like Japan fight so hard against laws that would start to restrict stuff like this, usually in the name of artistic freedom and under the guise of fighting "censorship".



I fully believe this article was written and approved by the sole metric of "horny kids will click on this". This is the equivalent of writing an article about Fortnite porno, and simply picking other random properties kids might have been interested in and not really thinking too far beyond that. This kind of stuff really is common the moment you wander away from the "mainstream" internet. It's a testament to how much people genuinely don't stop and think about what this stuff is actually depicting.



Also want to point out if your temp folder is on a traditional HDD, even after deleting the files they may linger until that data is eventually overwritten (if ever).
Lot's of good points made here. Hence why we need media to cover this issue...
 
OP
OP
Olaf

Olaf

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,419
"the intent of this article was to provide a snapshot of the kind of gaming and geek porn that's out there now "

Ok?
 

Naga

Alt account
Banned
Aug 29, 2019
7,850
It just means he has nothing to do with that story.
I don't think you're understanding me. There's a new editor's note that went up ten minutes ago. I'll leave it at that and refer you to our editor-in-chief if you have more questions or concerns.
Like, what do you want from him? He has nothing to do with it.

He only replied because people kept @ing him.
My bad, as edited in my initial post:
edit: well nevermind, sorry for the one, I completely misunderstood it as "there's a new criticism" or similar. Not "there's a new editor note".
Will check it.
Again, sorry about the misunderstanding, english is not my first language, and it's hard to read tone in a heated topic.

The new editor note is definitely better. It's still really disappointing it came to this (multiple edits, two different editor notes) instead of just not approving it.
"Porn parodies" is not really a term I thought would be used there.
 

SRTtoZ

Member
Dec 8, 2017
4,624
Pictures aside, I don't even understand the point of the article. Sounds like she just wanted to watch some animated porn and then explain in detail what each scene was about. Like wtf?
 
Jun 26, 2018
3,829
Right but it would be associated with the Kotaku article in question. No one is going to jail for looking at this article, that's all I'm saying.

I ain't disagreeing with you with regards to the fact that no one's gonna get arrested for viewing the blog post. But I wanted to clarify that your computer does download the images if you see them, and that does mean that you are technically breaking the law, even if unintentionally.
 

Hey Please

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
22,824
Not America
New editor note here:

Also the article has no pictures now.

I mean, aside from prudes and people who were not in the know that Kotaku covers this intersection, the issue was never with the images being pornographic but rather that they represented underage characters. How did they miss the crux of the issue?

Edit: Could it be legal liability related issue?