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Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
Except that's not really what happens, timelines are only erased because of the Time Devourer, and multiple timelines are shown to be able to coexist without issues. The CT cast time traveling isn't really at fault, though the moral consequences of merging all timelines and the countless lives that would be lost from that at the end of CC never gets questioned unfortunately.

I believe it's the other way around. Lavos was defeated by Crono and friends, so the timeline seen in 2300 AD was shunted to the Darkness Beyond Time and Lavos with it, whereupon it merged with Schala and began to threaten all of reality.

I don't think it's explained in-game how timelines actually split (like the timeline where Lavos never arrived and the Reptites became the dominant species), but I'm sure someone can correct me on that.
 

aceface

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,960
I tried to replay Chrono Cross this year and I couldn't get through it. I don't want to say it's objectively bad but certainly not my cup of tea. All that self important complicated malarkey was ruining my Chrono Trigger high.
 

FFNB

Associate Game Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
6,090
Los Angeles, CA
But Chrono Cross is a fantastic game, even if it's not the "direct" sequel to CT that I hoped for (direct, as in, starring the cast we know and love from CT as primary protagonists). I bought it on release, and absolutely loved it. Chrono Trigger is one of my favorite RPGs of all time, but even so, I adore Chrono Cross. Just such a strange, beautiful game.

Would I have loved a more comparable sequel to Chrono Trigger? Most definitely. Do I want more games set in that world? Hell yes. Do I need them though? Eh, not really. CT and CC will always hold a special place in my heart, and I think it's cool that they're such wildly different games, while CC still managed to feel evocative of CT.

I think, at the time I played CT the first time (way back when it released on SNES), I remember wondering what happened to Schala, but imagined we'd find out if there were ever a sequel. It didn't quite stand out to me as a glaring omission, but more of a plot thread that would be picked up later, and not a plot thread that the creators forgot about. I could be wrong though. Maybe they did forget, considering the scope of CT at the time lol

Also, the CC OST is fucking fantastic, whut? I'm not a big fan of the battle theme, but the entire rest of the OST is excellent. CT also has a fantastic OST. I think it's the one thing both games executed rather flawlessly.
 

Rutger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,245
I believe it's the other way around. Lavos was defeated by Crono and friends, so the timeline seen in 2300 AD was shunted to the Darkness Beyond Time and Lavos with it, whereupon it merged with Schala and began to threaten all of reality.

I don't think it's explained in-game how timelines actually split (like the timeline where Lavos never arrived and the Reptites became the dominant species), but I'm sure someone can correct me on that.
We see Doan from the ruined future in the main ending to CT, and he specifically talks about the meeting between him and the CT cast.

It's a small detail, but one that requires retconing if the idea of timelines getting erased when time is changed to be true. And since Marle's disappearance was implied to be because of the entity and not normal with time travel, it doesn't seem CT thought of time travel like that. It was probably thought to work a lot like in Dragon Ball at the time since Akira Toriyama had some influence on the story too, and that fits with Doan in the ending a lot more.

And yeah, I have no idea how the Reptite home world could happen, since the base timelines in CT before any controlled time travel happens has humanity winning that war either way.
 

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
We see Doan from the ruined future in the main ending to CT, and he specifically talks about the meeting between him and the CT cast.

It's a small detail, but one that requires retconing if the idea of timelines getting erased when time is changed to be true. And since Marle's disappearance was implied to be because of the entity and not normal with time travel, it doesn't seem CT thought of time travel like that. It was probably thought to work a lot like in Dragon Ball at the time since Akira Toriyama had some influence on the story too, and that fits with Doan in the ending a lot more.

And yeah, I have no idea how the Reptite home world could happen, since the base timelines in CT before any controlled time travel happens has humanity winning that war either way.

Well the Reptites die out either way because Lavos always crashes onto Earth. The only difference in-game is that Crono sees it happen.

As for Trigger's own take on time travel, well, I think it's fairly obvious that Trigger was never really interested in exploring the ramifications of meddling with power beyond human control. Doan's appearance only makes sense if Trigger is saying that everyone we see in 2300 AD were somehow transported into the better timeline, Robo is shown completely fine with Atropos in the best ending, and all the meddling Crono and the gang get involved with (turning the mayor of Porre into a nicer person, dethroning Ozzie VIII and repairing the relationship between humans and Mystics) is ultimately treated as a unilateral, consequence free positive. As I said in that thread I made on the subject, Trigger didn't care about how time travel could go wrong. It just wasn't interested in telling that story.

I think that's why Cross got such a bum rap from Trigger fans, because even apart from the textual bad ends that Crono, Marle, Lucca and Robo get subjected to, it's fairly explicit that the journey of Chrono Trigger was just a half measure, that the gang was really mucking things up for other people in the long run. It was the wrong way to fix things, and these new heroes (which includes such absolute legends like Korcha, Sneff and Poshul) are the ones who really fix things.
 

Sanguine

Member
Jun 10, 2018
1,276
The story of Trigger works just fine the way it is. Magus and Schala played their part and the question of whether they will ever meet again is left to the players imagination.

^ Yeah, I didn't find any issues with how it was done. It certainly didn't need a game that was...

Man people in this thread most have nostalgia glasses on. CC was a fun game but you are fooling yourself and others if you think the story wasn't confusing or needlessly complicated at some parts. Hell you got lore dumps at the end of the game that you could miss!
Chrono Cross is a mediocre game with bad gameplay, fantastic soundtrack though.
Chrono Cross was a poorly written disaster with good music. Calling it a mess is nicer than it deserves.
^ ... all this (well, except I disagree with FF Seraphim that it was a fun game). You''re better off listening to the Chrono Cross soundtrack on Youtube than you are playing the game.
 

Zen

The Wise Ones
Member
Nov 1, 2017
9,657
I will never not be amused at CT fans being salty over Cross. I think they work perfectly as a pair by exploring different ideas.
 

Inugami

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,995
^ Yeah, I didn't find any issues with how it was done. It certainly didn't need a game that was...




^ ... all this (well, except I disagree with FF Seraphim that it was a fun game). You''re better off listening to the Chrono Cross soundtrack on Youtube than you are playing the game.
The game play is fine. I literally beat it again just a year or two ago and it holds up as well as any jrpg of the era.

The story is worth any short comings. The music even more so.

(Edit) so the last time I played, I did a pretty good (by my standards) take exploring all the themes of the game, and admittedly I forgot how heavily the game plays into its environmentalist aspects. Anyways, if you want a decent some up of all that (and the "best" ending) I did that here.
 
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Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
I will never not be amused at CT fans being salty over Cross. I think they work perfectly as a pair by exploring different ideas.

I really don't get these posts. What about Cross made it deserve these takes, where the people who loved its predecessor not liking a sequel that didn't really contain anything that made the original game what it was in the first place are somehow being "salty" or otherwise unfair?

I think Chrono Cross sucks ass but I absolutely get why it developed its own cult fandom. I just don't get why that cult fandom can't just enjoy their game in peace without being in perpetual little brother mode.
 

Rutger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,245
Well the Reptites die out either way because Lavos always crashes onto Earth. The only difference in-game is that Crono sees it happen.

As for Trigger's own take on time travel, well, I think it's fairly obvious that Trigger was never really interested in exploring the ramifications of meddling with power beyond human control. Doan's appearance only makes sense if Trigger is saying that everyone we see in 2300 AD were somehow transported into the better timeline, Robo is shown completely fine with Atropos in the best ending, and all the meddling Crono and the gang get involved with (turning the mayor of Porre into a nicer person, dethroning Ozzie VIII and repairing the relationship between humans and Mystics) is ultimately treated as a unilateral, consequence free positive. As I said in that thread I made on the subject, Trigger didn't care about how time travel could go wrong. It just wasn't interested in telling that story.

I think that's why Cross got such a bum rap from Trigger fans, because even apart from the textual bad ends that Crono, Marle, Lucca and Robo get subjected to, it's fairly explicit that the journey of Chrono Trigger was just a half measure, that the gang was really mucking things up for other people in the long run. It was the wrong way to fix things, and these new heroes (which includes such absolute legends like Korcha, Sneff and Poshul) are the ones who really fix things.
I think the implication in CT is that the timelines coexist. The Doan we see is specifically from the ruined future, while Robo is able to travel to a better future, so to me what makes the most sense is that both exist much like the two separate worlds exist in CC.

And yeah, CT wasn't interested in telling the consequences of time travel. It even goes in the opposite direction by introducing the entity that is suggested as influencing the heroes to start their journey, and being happy with the results. Kind of a shame CC didn't do anything with the entity while wanting to deal with some of the loose ends in CT.

I will never not be amused at CT fans being salty over Cross. I think they work perfectly as a pair by exploring different ideas.
I don't think CT fans really get that salty over it. Personally I think it's pretty easy to separate CT from CC so it's not like I'm mad at it for existing or anything. I'm glad many people love it even if I don't.

I feel I see CC fans bringing up how much better they think it is than CT a lot more often, while CT fans really only talk about CC when the subject comes up.
 

Zen

The Wise Ones
Member
Nov 1, 2017
9,657
I really don't get these posts. What about Cross made it deserve these takes, where the people who loved its predecessor not liking a sequel that didn't really contain anything that made the original game what it was in the first place are somehow being "salty" or otherwise unfair?

I think Chrono Cross sucks ass but I absolutely get why it developed its own cult fandom. I just don't get why that cult fandom can't just enjoy their game in peace without being in perpetual little brother mode.
It's because of years of CT cult fans crapping on Cross any chance they got, or get.
 

Zen

The Wise Ones
Member
Nov 1, 2017
9,657
I feel I see CC fans bringing up how much better they think it is than CT a lot more often, while CT fans really only talk about CC when the subject comes up.
We've had very different experiences then. It's only recently that people have started coming around or praising Cross.
 

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
It's because of years of CT cult fans crapping on Cross any chance they got, or get.

It's a video game, though. A bought and sold product, and the sequel to the game that deliberately went out of its way to be as different as possible (to its benefit, I might add, since all the original ideas of Cross are its high points and its return to Trigger's hanging plot thread is where it all goes to hell). Isn't it natural that the people who really love its predecessor would then be down on a game that straddled an unhappy middle ground between doing its own thing while tying itself to another, more popular game?

It's just a game. It doesn't need defending. If someone were to go "Cross fans are bullshit hipsters who only like the game because trash anime navel gazing" then yeah, go nuts.
 

BassForever

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,920
CT
I will never not be amused at CT fans being salty over Cross. I think they work perfectly as a pair by exploring different ideas.

I don't really care about Cross's role as a canonical sequel or what it did to the original cast. My personal biggest issue with Cross as a sequel to Trigger is the playable cast. Part of what made CT a masterpiece was those 7 playable characters and how unique and memorable they are. Apologies to funguy fans, or poshul fans, but of the 45 playable characters in Cross, maybe 10 of them are both interest characters and actually relevant to the story. Of course with Cross's combat system they all feel incredibly samey so even if I kinda like Van there's little reason to use him over any other green party member.
 

Weiss

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Oct 25, 2017
64,265
The one thing we can all agree on is that Cross having dozens of playable characters should have meant there were a bunch of Dual and Triple Techs to play around with instead of like the seven there were in-game, and you only ever used Serge and Glenn's X-Strike anyway.
 

Taruranto

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,047
We see Doan from the ruined future in the main ending to CT, and he specifically talks about the meeting between him and the CT cast.

It's a small detail, but one that requires retconing if the idea of timelines getting erased when time is changed to be true. And since Marle's disappearance was implied to be because of the entity and not normal with time travel, it doesn't seem CT thought of time travel like that. It was probably thought to work a lot like in Dragon Ball at the time since Akira Toriyama had some influence on the story too, and that fits with Doan in the ending a lot more.

And yeah, I have no idea how the Reptite home world could happen, since the base timelines in CT before any controlled time travel happens has humanity winning that war either way.
Honestly I don't think anyone in CT's writer room sat down and wrote down how CT Time Traveler worked. Like Marle is wiped out of existence because her ancestor got kidnapped, but it doesn't create any paradoxes in the present and Crono and Lucca still remember her. Ayla is her ancestor too and despite her being a party member nothing happens to the timeline.

It's really just meant to be a fun trek through history with a feel good and optimistic ending.
 

Zen

The Wise Ones
Member
Nov 1, 2017
9,657
They are just a vocal minority. The vast majority of CT fans loved or enjoyed Cross.
I believe it. And It's fine not to like Cross given how cherished the CT cast is to a lot of fans. Frog is amazing, and their fates in CC are tragic. It's just that every discussion I've seen on Cross and CT has had people diss Cross like it was an unworthy successor.

It's a video game, though. A bought and sold product, and the sequel to the game that deliberately went out of its way to be as different as possible (to its benefit, I might add, since all the original ideas of Cross are its high points and its return to Trigger's hanging plot thread is where it all goes to hell). Isn't it natural that the people who really love its predecessor would then be down on a game that straddled an unhappy middle ground between doing its own thing while tying itself to another, more popular game?

It's just a game. It doesn't need defending. If someone were to go "Cross fans are bullshit hipsters who only like the game because trash anime navel gazing" then yeah, go nuts.
It gets tiresome when pretty much any discussion about Cross devolves into a CT-was-better argument.
 

Rutger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,245
We've had very different experiences then. It's only recently that people have started coming around or praising Cross.
CC has always been fairly well regarded though, it got solid reviews and has had a solid fanbase from the start.

But around here at least, I feel it's far more common to see someone praise CC by saying it's better than CT, while someone praising CT doesn't bring up CC unless that's what the topic is/has become about.

Discussions is a good thing, but it's a shame to see any criticism thrown at CC always get the response of "you're just salty and blinded by nostalgia, and didn't get it".
Honestly I don't think anyone in CT's writer room sat down and wrote down how CT Time Traveler worked. Like Marle is wiped out of existence because her ancestor got kidnapped, but it doesn't create any paradoxes in the present and Crono and Lucca still remember her. Ayla is her ancestor too and despite her being a party member nothing happens to the timeline.

It's really just meant to be a fun trek through history with a feel good and optimistic ending.
The Marle thing does have a really vague possible explanation. The game brings up the possibility of some kind of entity wanted the heros to go on their journey, and the thing that sets that off is Marle's disappearance, and we know it has some kind of control over time since it's the reason Lucca saves her mom. Something that could have been worth exploring in a sequel.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,753
I believe it. And It's fine not to like Cross given how cherished the CT cast is to a lot of fans. Frog is amazing, and their fates in CC are tragic.

I agree. It's completely fine to dislike Cross. However, you mentioned Frog as if Cross did anything to him. Frog is not a part of the Cross plot line whatsoever, so we can only assume he died in the middle ages by old age or something.

Crono and Marle are just missing. Regarding Lucca, Lynx claims to have killed her but there's no proof of that anyways.

Robo DOES get killed by FATE, but remember that most of the events of Cross get undone at the end so he may still be alive.

So, regarding the Chrono Trigger cast:

We got two missing characters. (Crono and Marle)
One presumed dead. (Lucca)
One killed but most probably alive at the ends. (Robo)
And two who quite possibly just died of old age at their respective time periods. (Ayla and Frog).
One that is alive and well. (Magus, if we go by CT DS ending that heavily implies is an amnesiac Guile).

The reports of "Cross doing dirty to the Trigger cast" are always greatly exaggerated.

And in the end, Kato always intended to make a third game where the Trigger and Cross casts team up for a final adventure. In his eyes, Crono, Marle and Lucca would turn out fine after Cross anyways.
 

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
I agree. It's completely fine to dislike Cross. However, you mentioned Frog as if Cross did anything to him. Frog is not a part of the Cross plot line whatsoever, so we can only assume he died in the middle ages by old age or something.

Crono and Marle are just missing. Regarding Lucca, Lynx claims to have killed her but there's no proof of that anyways.

Robo DOES get killed by FATE, but remember that most of the events of Cross get undone at the end so he may still be alive.

So, regarding the Chrono Trigger cast:

We got two missing characters. (Crono and Marle)
One presumed dead. (Lucca)
One killed but most probably alive at the ends. (Robo)
And two who quite possibly just died of old age at their respective time periods. (Ayla and Frog).
One that is alive and well. (Magus, if we go by CT DS ending that heavily implies is an amnesiac Guile).

The reports of "Cross doing dirty to the Trigger cast" are always greatly exaggerated.

And in the end, Kato always intended to make a third game where the Trigger and Cross casts team up for a final adventure. In his eyes, Crono, Marle and Lucca would turn out fine after Cross anyways.

Where was this?
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,753

New Masato Kato 2015 interview

New Masato Kato 2015 interview

Kato: "I'm going to make a confession: when I finished writing Chrono Trigger, I felt a huge relief! (Laughs) Incidentally, shortly after, I took up the writing of Radical Dreamers and the first idea I had was to make a game that would follow the adventures of a band of thieves. I also had the image of a manor in mind. I started writing and writing, without thinking much and when I reached the last step of the plot, I started feeling some doubt: was the epilogue I was unfolding the right one? That's when I realized, for the first time, that what I was writing was the story of Schala and Magus. (Laughs)

As for Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross, I wanted to imagine an episode that would conclude a trilogy and take place shortly after the events of the first game. I thought of the following lead: Kid and the others have to go help Crono, Marle and Lucca, who were then in great dangers. In the end, it was some sort of "all-star"! (Laughs) That said, I have the following principle: the past is the past, and it should be left behind. You have to let go. To lay new foundations. To move on. Nevertheless, if I recall correctly, I'm pretty sure Square Enix suggested the possibility of a project titled Chrono Break. But I wasn't part of it, so I'm not in the best position to talk about it. In fact I don't have any other information on this topic.
And so, Kid, Serge, Crono, Lucca, Frog and Janus are gathered together
in one chamber, Zurvan the sea of time is awakened, the curtain rises on
the final battle.

Chrono Reflect"
 

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265

New Masato Kato 2015 interview

New Masato Kato 2015 interview

Kato: "I'm going to make a confession: when I finished writing Chrono Trigger, I felt a huge relief! (Laughs) Incidentally, shortly after, I took up the writing of Radical Dreamers and the first idea I had was to make a game that would follow the adventures of a band of thieves. I also had the image of a manor in mind. I started writing and writing, without thinking much and when I reached the last step of the plot, I started feeling some doubt: was the epilogue I was unfolding the right one? That's when I realized, for the first time, that what I was writing was the story of Schala and Magus. (Laughs)

As for Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross, I wanted to imagine an episode that would conclude a trilogy and take place shortly after the events of the first game. I thought of the following lead: Kid and the others have to go help Crono, Marle and Lucca, who were then in great dangers. In the end, it was some sort of "all-star"! (Laughs) That said, I have the following principle: the past is the past, and it should be left behind. You have to let go. To lay new foundations. To move on. Nevertheless, if I recall correctly, I'm pretty sure Square Enix suggested the possibility of a project titled Chrono Break. But I wasn't part of it, so I'm not in the best position to talk about it. In fact I don't have any other information on this topic.
And so, Kid, Serge, Crono, Lucca, Frog and Janus are gathered together
in one chamber, Zurvan the sea of time is awakened, the curtain rises on
the final battle.

Chrono Reflect"

A big crossover team up sounds fun in a fanservicey way but I dunno how well it would have gone down. The two games really are so different.

Actually you're probably in the know about this: Did Chrono Break ever get any kind of details on it, or was it just a name that then faded away?
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,753
A big crossover team up sounds fun in a fanservicey way but I dunno how well it would have gone down. The two games really are so different.

Actually you're probably in the know about this: Did Chrono Break ever get any kind of details on it, or was it just a name that then faded away?

Unfortunately it was just a trademark that Square eventually dropped. No info came out of it whatsoever.

I believe it was trademarked as "Chrono Brake" in Japan and "Chrono Break" internationally, but that may be my memory playing tricks on me, lol.
 

BriGuy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,275
Cross is a good JRPG, but a really crappy follow up to Chrono Trigger. It really doesn't do anything with its source material, save for some ill conceived info dump at the very end of the game. It should have been its own thing and could have taken off from there.
 

Inugami

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,995
Cross is a good JRPG, but a really crappy follow up to Chrono Trigger. It really doesn't do anything with its source material, save for some ill conceived info dump at the very end of the game. It should have been its own thing and could have taken off from there.
Go play the game again sometime. This opinion that CC would work better stand alone does not make any sense, CT's story and aftermath are woven all throughout the game (aside from the first couple hours which are world and character building).
 

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
Go play the game again sometime. This opinion that CC would work better stand alone does not make any sense, CT's story and aftermath are woven all throughout the game (aside from the first couple hours which are world and character building).

My hot take on Cross is that most of the story before the end of Terra Tower is basically alright and if Belthasar just kept his trap shut the game would be a lot more fondly remembered.

It should have been Another Chrono Game, is how I put it, rather than Chrono Trigger 2 (also Ishida is more or less correct that the cosmic retcon shenanigans involved in Cross' ending almost certainly undo the fates of the Trigger cast).
 

Roliq

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Sep 23, 2018
6,181
The weird thing about the DS ending is that then it ignores what happened to the main party
 

Rutger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,245
I agree. It's completely fine to dislike Cross. However, you mentioned Frog as if Cross did anything to him. Frog is not a part of the Cross plot line whatsoever, so we can only assume he died in the middle ages by old age or something.

Crono and Marle are just missing. Regarding Lucca, Lynx claims to have killed her but there's no proof of that anyways.

Robo DOES get killed by FATE, but remember that most of the events of Cross get undone at the end so he may still be alive.

So, regarding the Chrono Trigger cast:

We got two missing characters. (Crono and Marle)
One presumed dead. (Lucca)
One killed but most probably alive at the ends. (Robo)
And two who quite possibly just died of old age at their respective time periods. (Ayla and Frog).
One that is alive and well. (Magus, if we go by CT DS ending that heavily implies is an amnesiac Guile).

The reports of "Cross doing dirty to the Trigger cast" are always greatly exaggerated.

And in the end, Kato always intended to make a third game where the Trigger and Cross casts team up for a final adventure. In his eyes, Crono, Marle and Lucca would turn out fine after Cross anyways.
It really isn't unreasonable for someone to assume a character said to have been killed and never shows up again is dead. Sure there's room to say Lucca survived, but it's wishful thinking until it ever gets confirmed.

CC still does the CT cast dirty though. With all those characters they couldn't find a way to fit any of the ones that are the most vital to the end of the story is not great, especially when trying to make them look bad in the process. The closest we get is Magus being an optional character with amnesia that never gets resolved, in the game specifically following up where his story left off.

The writing surrounding the CT cast is a mess, they're turned into plot devices, and we're left to assume they are either dead, or in trouble in need of being saved by Serge as suggested by Kato's idea for a third game. Saying they've been done dirty is fair.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,753
It really isn't unreasonable for someone to assume a character said to have been killed and never shows up again is dead. Sure there's room to say Lucca survived, but it's wishful thinking until it ever gets confirmed.

CC still does the CT cast dirty though. With all those characters they couldn't find a way to fit any of the ones that are the most vital to the end of the story is not great, especially when trying to make them look bad in the process. The closest we get is Magus being an optional character with amnesia that never gets resolved, in the game specifically following up where his story left off.

The writing surrounding the CT cast is a mess, they're turned into plot devices, and we're left to assume they are either dead, or in trouble in need of being saved by Serge as suggested by Kato's idea for a third game. Saying they've been done dirty is fair.

I disagree. If anything it makes their fates and participation in a potential third game a lot more interesting.
 

Zen

The Wise Ones
Member
Nov 1, 2017
9,657
I agree. It's completely fine to dislike Cross. However, you mentioned Frog as if Cross did anything to him. Frog is not a part of the Cross plot line whatsoever, so we can only assume he died in the middle ages by old age or something.

Crono and Marle are just missing. Regarding Lucca, Lynx claims to have killed her but there's no proof of that anyways.

Robo DOES get killed by FATE, but remember that most of the events of Cross get undone at the end so he may still be alive.

So, regarding the Chrono Trigger cast:

We got two missing characters. (Crono and Marle)
One presumed dead. (Lucca)
One killed but most probably alive at the ends. (Robo)
And two who quite possibly just died of old age at their respective time periods. (Ayla and Frog).
One that is alive and well. (Magus, if we go by CT DS ending that heavily implies is an amnesiac Guile).

The reports of "Cross doing dirty to the Trigger cast" are always greatly exaggerated.

And in the end, Kato always intended to make a third game where the Trigger and Cross casts team up for a final adventure. In his eyes, Crono, Marle and Lucca would turn out fine after Cross anyways.
Huh, you're right, Frog is absent from Cross. Did he say what the premise of that game would be? I presume Lavos's final destruction in a point of time and space.

CC has always been fairly well regarded though, it got solid reviews and has had a solid fanbase from the start.

But around here at least, I feel it's far more common to see someone praise CC by saying it's better than CT, while someone praising CT doesn't bring up CC unless that's what the topic is/has become about.

Discussions is a good thing, but it's a shame to see any criticism thrown at CC always get the response of "you're just salty and blinded by nostalgia, and didn't get it".
We seem to have opposing anecdotes. I can agree that CC has its share of shortcomings from a gameplay standpoint. But as an example, FFXIII was a critical success and yet has its very persistent detractors. CT is a universally praised game, I've never seen people claim it's bad or that Cross is superior. When nostalgia comes on, it's always CT. You don't ever see a post that straight up calls it a bad game.
 

Inugami

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,995
We seem to have opposing anecdotes. I can agree that CC has its share of shortcomings from a gameplay standpoint. But as an example, FFXIII was a critical success and yet has its very persistent detractors. CT is a universally praised game, I've never seen people claim it's bad or that Cross is superior. When nostalgia comes on, it's always CT. You don't ever see a post that straight up calls it a bad game.
This... no idea where this narrative of CC is a critical and commercial darling is coming from, and every chrono cross thread ever made will have someone drive bying on how much CT is better.
 

Weiss

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So, what was the answer?

By the end of Chrono Trigger Schala is lost to time, and Magus goes on a quest to find her. The game doesn't elaborate on her fate so for all we know she's dead and Magus is doomed to failure, or maybe he finds her someday somewhere. It could go either way.
 

Rutger

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I disagree. If anything it makes their fates and participation in a potential third game a lot more interesting.
The problem is there isn't a third game, and little reason to expect one at this point. It's really hard for me to get interested in the potential of it, and even if it happens and turns out to be good, I'll still feel the cost of ignoring them is ultimately detrimental to CC's story.

I don't think making them sequel bait was worth it in the long run.
We seem to have opposing anecdotes. I can agree that CC has its share of shortcomings from a gameplay standpoint. But as an example, FFXIII was a critical success and yet has its very persistent detractors. CT is a universally praised game, I've never seen people claim it's bad or that Cross is superior. When nostalgia comes on, it's always CT. You don't ever see a post that straight up calls it a bad game.
People saying CT fans only love it for nostalgia is not as uncommon as you might think. The hate is definitely not one sided, and it's such a shame.

I know I've made it clear I have issues with CC, but I respect what it's fans see in it.
Unfortunately no thread I've ever seen wants to have any real discussion on the games.
This... no idea where this narrative of CC is a critical and commercial darling is coming from, and every chrono cross thread ever made will have someone drive bying on how much CT is better.
And the drive by posts about how CC is so much better than CT are just as common at this point.
 

Psxphile

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I think the reason it became such a big deal is due to Gaspar's cryptic line about how "someone close to you is in danger. Find that person fast."

This is said at the same time as Gaspar rattling off the remaining sidequests and Magus doesn't really have one, so the natural conclusion is that the line refers to a character close to Magus, and that would obviously be Schala.

Apparently the original Japanese line is much more clear in that it references Queen Zeal, and Gaspar's line is more to remind you to deal with her.
That one line really did muss things up for people looking for answers to certain questions, since it wasn't made painfully obvious who Gaspar was referring to. It got so bad that the official Nintendo game tip automated hotline (you had to ask for a live counselor by that point) had a pre-recorded message addressing what that line meant when asking for CT tips.

Don't ask how I know this.

Unfortunately it was just a trademark that Square eventually dropped. No info came out of it whatsoever.

I believe it was trademarked as "Chrono Brake" in Japan and "Chrono Break" internationally, but that may be my memory playing tricks on me, lol.
You are correct, it was indeed trademarked with different spellings in both regions. wiki link

I recall people speculating on what the plot would be just based on these two spellings; "Brake" would suggest time actually coming to a halt, while "Break" would obviously have dealt with some kind of temporal disorder.

By the end of Chrono Trigger Schala is lost to time, and Magus goes on a quest to find her. The game doesn't elaborate on her fate so for all we know she's dead and Magus is doomed to failure, or maybe he finds her someday somewhere. It could go either way.
Schrodinger's Schala.
 

slothrop

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Stories don't need to tie up every loose end... this is a position that really annoys me. ambiguity is fine -- great even!
 

Inugami

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And the drive by posts about how CC is so much better than CT are just as common at this point.
By all means... point them out for me. If you do, I'll do the same for the ones saying something to the effect of "CC is bad" or "CT is better" and we can compare numbers.

Heck, I'll even make a new thread with a poll and you'll see it's pretty lopsided, way more people like CT over CC, and far fewer people dislike CT over CC. Even I like CT more than CC, but I'll defend CC every chance I get over people saying things like "Cross is a bad sequel" or "it would work better as a stand alone title not connected to CT."
 

Rutger

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Oct 25, 2017
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By all means... point them out for me. If you do, I'll do the same for the ones saying something to the effect of "CC is bad" or "CT is better" and we can compare numbers.

Heck, I'll even make a new thread with a poll and you'll see it's pretty lopsided, way more people like CT over CC, and far fewer people dislike CT over CC. Even I like CT more than CC, but I'll defend CC every chance I get over people saying things like "Cross is a bad sequel" or "it would work better as a stand alone title not connected to CT."
I would argue the "look at how salty CT fans get at CC" post i responded to that started all this counts as a drive by post. This thread was overall filled with more positive comments towards CC, with just a couple low effort posts saying it's bad.

Yeah, CT is going to be a more popular game, but most of them haven't played CC and ignore these threads.

I personally agree with the idea that CC would be better off of it wasn't a sequel. Yes, the endgame to CC is very closely tied to CT, but I think the way it handles the CT cast leaves that connection feeling very unsatisfying. I think CC had a lot of interesting ideas before the turn to the endgame's closer ties to CT that unfortunately gets overshadowed. And if someone disagrees with me on that, that's cool so long as it isn't just brushed aside as "salty CT fans".
 

Weiss

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By all means... point them out for me. If you do, I'll do the same for the ones saying something to the effect of "CC is bad" or "CT is better" and we can compare numbers.

Heck, I'll even make a new thread with a poll and you'll see it's pretty lopsided, way more people like CT over CC, and far fewer people dislike CT over CC. Even I like CT more than CC, but I'll defend CC every chance I get over people saying things like "Cross is a bad sequel" or "it would work better as a stand alone title not connected to CT."

I mean, acting like Cross fans don't routinely pull posts like this is just flat out denial.

Weird, i thought the title read "PAY ATTENTION TO ME PAY ATTENTION TO ME AM HERE " but I come in here and is about Chrono Cross, one of the greatest games of all time.

It doesn't need fixing lmao
Yes, I do believe that Chrono Cross is a more important sequel to Trigger than if there was just a Chrono Trigger 2. One would have been the new adventures of Crono & co, while Cross took in the themes of Trigger, analyzed them and set them out to challenge them, discuss them and reinterpret them to make them stronger.

I am in belief that Cross is made stronger by Trigger, and Trigger is stronger by Cross. Masato Kato wrote Trigger and fought for Cross to be made, overworking himself for a game that wanted to say something.

edit: removed it per OP's wishes

Unfortunately, it is impossible to discuss this game in any capacity because Trigger fans are huge babies about it that would make Star Wars fans blush. The huge unhealthy relationship they have with Trigger is seriously mindboggling.

(The part in italics was originally edited out after it was rebuked and can be found in other quotes from that poster in that thread)
 

SlasherMcGirk

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I think it's pretty ridiculous that we're supposed to believe Schala and Kidd are the same character. How does a noble princess of an ancient kingdom become a blue haired pirate out of nowhere? There's no setup or anything. It's fanfic level writing.
People are influenced by the times, their environment and the people they know. It would be far more stupid if she was a 1 to 1 replica.


Oh no it's quite simple.

In the infinite blackened void beyond space and time where Schala was condemned to for all eternity she cloned herself and sent it to 1004 AD where Lucca found it, and then that clone baby grew up and became Kid.

(Also she's blonde, but the bigger question is why Schala is blonde)

And that's not even getting into Harle's deal.

I know your post in heavy in sarcasm but this is a fantasy game that deals with magic and it's world is governed by it's rules. Lavos is what gave people magic of space and time and evolution so it's not crazy that when lavos is fused with schala that she would have those abilities and would want to attempt to save her self by any means before she is fully consumed. This is a fantasy game with magic it can have fantastical explanations if it wants to especially when it's the crux that sets the story in motion. It doesn't make it complete nonsense.

And for the record it is stated in Trigger that all of the Zeal people dye their hair blue as a sign that they posses magic. It's not ripped out of nowhere.
 

Weiss

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People are influenced by the times, their environment and the people they know. It would be far more stupid if she was a 1 to 1 replica.




I know your post in heavy in sarcasm but this is a fantasy game that deals with magic and it's world is governed by it's rules. Lavos is what gave people magic of space and time and evolution so it's not crazy that when lavos is fused with schala that she would have those abilities and would want to attempt to save her self by any means before she is fully consumed. This is a fantasy game with magic it can have fantastical explanations if it wants to especially when it's the crux that sets the story in motion. It doesn't make it complete nonsense.

And for the record it is stated in Trigger that all of the Zeal people dye their hair blue as a sign that they posses magic. It's not ripped out of nowhere.

I didn't say it was nonsense. It didn't really matter to me either way.

(Schala saving Serge's life when he was 3 because she heard him crying totally is nonsense though)

And I'm pretty sure that thing about blue hair dye in Zeal isn't actually mentioned in any translation of Chrono Trigger.
 

SlasherMcGirk

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I didn't say it was nonsense. It didn't really matter to me either way.

(Schala saving Serge's life when he was 3 because she heard him crying totally is nonsense though)

And I'm pretty sure that thing about blue hair dye in Zeal isn't actually mentioned in any translation of Chrono Trigger.

I do agree the serge cry thing was nonsense. I believe the dye line is in the original game, but the Ted Woosley translation might have cut it and it might be back in the the DS version. I can't remember. I know it's in the JPN version.
 

Weiss

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I do agree the serge cry thing was nonsense. I believe the dye line is in the original game, but the Ted Woosley translation might have cut it and it might be back in the the DS version. I can't remember. I know it's in the JPN version.

Are you sure about that? Because it's not in the DS retranslation either, and google tells me that it being a line from the JPN version is a consistent myth.
 

Twig

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Oct 25, 2017
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I mean, acting like Cross fans don't routinely pull posts like this is just flat out denial.




(The part in italics was originally edited out after it was rebuked and can be found in other quotes from that poster in that thread)
I dunno why you're quoting me to drag me into this shit but the title of that thread was intentionally inflammatory. Context matters.

Now leave me alone! I have to go scream at some children for not knowing about how perfect Chrono Cross is. Ignorance is NO excuse.
 

SlasherMcGirk

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Are you sure about that? Because it's not in the DS retranslation either, and google tells me that it being a line from the JPN version is a consistent myth.
I am fairly sure but I can't provide any evidence. I was pretty heavy into the lore back in the day. Now that I think about it could have also been a QandA question interview with Kato as well but Im still pretty sure it's in JPN CT.
 

Weiss

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I am fairly sure but I can't provide any evidence. I was pretty heavy into the lore back in the day. Now that I think about it could have also been a QandA question interview with Kato as well but Im still pretty sure it's in JPN CT.

The closest thing to a source I can find is the Chrono Compendium speculating that Schala dyes her hair. I really don't think it's any version of the game.
 

RedDevil

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Dec 25, 2017
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Back when I played the game I always assumed she had perished even though Magus was going to look for her. But I guess it wasn't as simple as that.