• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,550
"It can't be helped"

"This is unforgivable!"

"That person"

"As expected from"

"You bastard"

If your English translation of a Japanese script uses any one of these exact phrases more than once, please go back and rewrite it. Constant literal translation of stock phrases just makes your dialogue read as stilted and cliche.
 

Spike Spiegel

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
142
Mars
maxresdefault.jpg



edit: oh wait, lower!

I got nothing there.


Nah, this was so random and out of place that it was actually good.
 
Dec 6, 2017
10,997
US
I can honestly say this hasn't happened to me yet. I usually find stupid/ridiculous/bad writing in games pretty funny at worst myself.

The closest was probably watching my friend play the Devil May Cry reboot. The level of edge in that was so asinine, it nearly went from sad-funny to full on second hand embarrassment.
 

Heisenberg726

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
1,071
Postal 2's very pro-GamerGate reference.
Not touching it ever.


Alright, I'm a little confused here. There's a difference between being pro-gamergate/controlling ethical conduct in journalism vs being pro-racist/sexist/anti-progressive.

While the vast majority of people who were gamergaters were horrible people, the core message that a few people were trying to get at was "morally right."

What kind of reference did Postal 2 have about it?
 

Killyoh

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,087
Paris, France
Wikipedia is not really a gold standard here. Again, the term has been around since the 90's. Internet culture may have given rise to it again, but it did not originate from the internet nor memes. I heard it back when I was in middle school in the 90's.

And GG is not the best example, cause again, out in the world... eh? I can go around my office right now (made up of mostly young people and I can guarantee you maybe two person will know what GamerGate is. Nothing is bastardized because the source is meaningless in the end. Maybe to you it is, but that is not the practical case. And no, they should not have known better. That's tone policing. To you it may mean that, but it does not mean that to someone else. Your feelings are fair on it, but don't expect that your own feeling on it will apply to everyone nor that will it is the de facto meaning. Most people, especially outside of gaming use the term with zero relation to changes in video games. And in gaming, outside of this forum and some sites (which can be very insular), it is still used more often than not to have a laugh at people who are are just bonkers. Now just because GG bastardized the term to complain about progressive developers, does not mean they own it; because GG would have to actually matter for that to happen and they don't matter.

So we will have to agree to disagree.



At the end of the day, both conservatives and liberals are mock worthy when they behave in ridiculous or counterproductive fashions. My father, who is now retired, did civil law and was heavily involved in activism and social justice, but he would always say that there were segments of progressives who would do more harm than good because they lacked maturity, perspective and actual real world experience beyond their bubble.

Nah dude, it went way beyond Gamergate and USA-context (I'm in a country where liberal and conservative kinda blend together so doesn't make any sense to call a liberal person a "SJW") and is essentialy used to mock any feminist or LGBT point of view, regardless of video games or stances. I've seen a lot of progressive well-constructed points and essays called "SJW shit" because they were written from a leftist point of view.

I actually did some research and really, the term originated not from gamergate but from far-right groups. It's not innocent to use it even outside of our video game bubble and perpetuates a political stance.
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,171
The "hurr look at how funny I am lolz" writing in Borderlands games is one big reason why the series never sat well with me.
 

Asbsand

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,901
Denmark
The "garrus calibration" jokes in Mass Effect 3. Ruined the immersion with pandering and it's not even a funny in-joke.
 

tiesto

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,865
Long Island, NY
IIRC there was a game vendor in Mass Effect 2 which talked about Japanese tentacle hentai games... this was at the height of the whole western vs. Japanese rpg war last gen and seemed pretty tacky.
 

Clix

Banned
Nah dude, it went way beyond Gamergate and USA-context (I'm in a country where liberal and conservative kinda blend together so doesn't make any sense to call a liberal person a "SJW") and is essentialy used to mock any feminist or LGBT point of view, regardless of video games or stances. I've seen a lot of progressive well-constructed points and essays called "SJW shit" because they were written from a leftist point of view.

I actually did some research and really, the term originated not from gamergate but from far-right groups. It's not innocent to use it even outside of our video game bubble and perpetuates a political stance.

Yeah, no. Again, the term didn't really originate from far right groups and goes back as far as the 90's, which is when I heard it along with PC Police. And yes, you are approaching this from the bubble here. and it does not perpetuate a political stance. Most people in the outside world use the term to make fun of people who behave absurd and irrational to the point of caricature or hinderance to actual social movements, not exclusive to LGBT or Feminist issues. Plenty of liberals and progressives have used the term, not just conservatives.
 
OP
OP
dock

dock

Game Designer
Verified
Nov 5, 2017
1,370
Yeah, no. Again, the term didn't really originate from far right groups and goes back as far as the 90's, which is when I heard it along with PC Police.
Any sources for this? Knowyourmeme and other sources log earliest use as 2009, along with 'keyboard warrior', specifically in context of posting on the internet.
 
Last edited:

Clix

Banned
Any sources for this? Knowyourmeme and other sources log earliest use as 2009, along with 'keyboard warrior', specifically in context of posting on the internet.

Mostly, devs referencing the term in recent years are certainly leaning into the GG style abuse tactics, overly precious of what they see as a 'culture' under attack.

Sources? Yeah growing up in the 90's. It's s term I've known before GG was even a thing. It's not a new term, really. Knowyourmeme is not a really good way to get to the origins of terms because they track of online culture and it is a term that has come back into the limelight in the online space. Even keyboard warrior is a term tossed around since the early 2000s.
 

Print_Dog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,515
cocksucker isn't a homophobic slur
Yea I was born and raised in Louisiana and 'cocksucker' is interchangeable with asshole around here. I've never heard anyone use it to actually talk down to a homosexual person. Mostly just bosses and people in traffic.

But any time I hear Sora...Donald...and Goofy. I groan.
 
Except that the weird reference in this particular case is an awful meme. So it's the worst of two worlds
A bad sentence should be much worse than a meme.
So you're not really adding value to this discussion other than showing that your contrarian and as far as I know N=1 sentiment is out there.
N=1? The second sentence is simply awful! I'd rather read an annoyance than read garbage.
 

francium87

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,041
"the snark is strong with that one" Mass Effect Andromeda. Just when I thought I couldn't dislike an ME game more.
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,514
Bandung Indonesia
I loved hearing Bienfu's "BIIIIIEEEEEEEEE-HEHEHEEEEEN." Cute voice and it was overall adorable for me :P.

It stood out like a sore thumb in RE7, but when I heard Marguerite say "faggot," it kind of soured me on the game's writing a bit. To my knowledge, RE has never used slurs like that and it definitely made me "=/" because it just felt so sudden and WTF for me as a gay dude in one of my favorite franchises.

Urgh. This is awful. Games that use slurs to feign mature scriptwriting need to check themselves.

I went to go check, and she doesn't say faggot, but cocksucker... which isn't any better. It's easy to miss if you interrupt her dialogue during the fight because it cuts her off if you shoot, but I screencapped this:

7334703302.png

I don't get this. It's in-character for her to say that, since she's batshit insane and crazy as fuck and extremely unsound in mind. Do you guys prefer she uses a less offensive slur or something? I mean, her being an extremely rude person is just okay in the context of the story.

I hope this is not one of those things where people conflate things said by fictional characters in a fictional context as something that is condoned by people creating them.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,020
There are some nerd references in To The Moon, I think Doctor Who and the like, that are extremely shoehorned in and made me kind of realize the actual writing in the game was not very good. The plot was very nice though.

Alright, I'm a little confused here. There's a difference between being pro-gamergate/controlling ethical conduct in journalism vs being pro-racist/sexist/anti-progressive.

While the vast majority of people who were gamergaters were horrible people, the core message that a few people were trying to get at was "morally right."

What kind of reference did Postal 2 have about it?

The core message of Gamergate was, from the beginning, about how Zoe Quinn had sex with a dude who didn't even write about her game, but apparently the writer wasn't the one at fault or was the target of harassment even if he had.

It was a faulty "core message" and any valid points made on top of this false premise are dubious at best. Gamergate was and still is an incoherent sexist platform of hate.
 

Keldroc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,987
Yeah, no. Again, the term didn't really originate from far right groups and goes back as far as the 90's, which is when I heard it along with PC Police. And yes, you are approaching this from the bubble here. and it does not perpetuate a political stance. Most people in the outside world use the term to make fun of people who behave absurd and irrational to the point of caricature or hinderance to actual social movements, not exclusive to LGBT or Feminist issues. Plenty of liberals and progressives have used the term, not just conservatives.

Sorry, but you're wrong here. Yes, it's an old term, as you say, but no, it isn't used like that anymore. It was lost to the GGers and alt-right people over the last several years and is now a slur against anyone espousing any kind of left-leaning or progressive viewpoint. Let it go, it's gone, co-opted by the right. Using it in its old usage is just going to make you look bad.
 

Etrian Oddity

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,429
"It can't be helped"

"This is unforgivable!"

"That person"

"As expected from"

"You bastard"

If your English translation of a Japanese script uses any one of these exact phrases more than once, please go back and rewrite it. Constant literal translation of stock phrases just makes your dialogue read as stilted and cliche.
Unfortunately, few people understand the difference between translation and localization. We don't have many good localizers left in the big industry. Apart from Trinen, there is nothing even comparable in today's landscape to Alexander O. Smith, Woolsey, or Blaustein.
 

Drayco21

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,376
In Marvel vs Capcom Infinite, Rocket Raccoon uses Bendis' "blam murdered you" catch phrase.

This is the primary reason Infinite is a lesser game next to 3
 

dadjumper

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,932
New Zealand
the anime and memes in Undertale were unfortunate
There were memes?
I don't think having an anime-loving character talking about anime is a bad thing. Alphys just liked anime. That was chill.

For me, it's meme references (especially in Borderlands 2, I dropped that game after a few hours because of how awful the writing was, memes or otherwise) or anything legitimately offensive (slurs, homophobia, sexism, anything that paints the devs in a bad light really)
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,711
There were memes?
I don't think having an anime-loving character talking about anime is a bad thing. Alphys just liked anime. That was chill.

its more just obnoxious that animes brought up in important scenes that were meant to be emotional, and it just took me right out of it because its the most game directors interests insert to me. I dunno if shit like "get dunked on" constitutes a meme, but it felt really weird in a similar way. Temmie just felt like a doge version of Saturn Valley but maybe thats just me.
 

R.T Straker

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,715
Anything in DmC.

When you think the game couldn't get any more shit it just succeeds in lowering your expectations even more.
 

SolVanderlyn

I love pineapple on pizza!
Member
Oct 28, 2017
13,510
Earth, 21st Century
Anytime a little girl says onii-chan in a Japanese game I immediately question the writing.

Trails of Cold Steel has great and horrible writing because of dumb anime shit like this
 

Deleted member 2779

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,045
Hanzo's voice lines from Overwatch are such trite. Not only is his character stuck on one note with a shtick on honour, it's also played completely straight-faced.
 

ClearMetal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,323
the Netherlands
Any game which uses the word "welp" in dialogue, as in: "Welp, gotta go."

I'm willing to make an exception for games in a modern setting containing lots of internet slang, but I once stumbled upon Kellam (or was it Gaius? Maybe even both...) from Fire Emblem Awakening using it.
 

SolVanderlyn

I love pineapple on pizza!
Member
Oct 28, 2017
13,510
Earth, 21st Century
Aa, I think I can kinda understand that. Something like when suddenly a character with that all too familiar design, role and disposition appears. "Onii-chan" is like a warning.
Yep, exactly. Obviously not just for that specific example, either, or even just for anime or Japanese games. Any time a character who looks like a walking trope starts spewing out certain keywords, the red flags start to go off.

I'm not entirely against using character archetypes in writing, but certain archetypes are inherently toxic (see: creepy little sister/brother implications in an otherwise solid fantasy story a la Cold Steel) and others are just a form of laziness on the part of the author.
 

Clix

Banned
Sorry, but you're wrong here. Yes, it's an old term, as you say, but no, it isn't used like that anymore. It was lost to the GGers and alt-right people over the last several years and is now a slur against anyone espousing any kind of left-leaning or progressive viewpoint. Let it go, it's gone, co-opted by the right. Using it in its old usage is just going to make you look bad.

Again, maybe here on this forum and a couple others. But you're wrong here. Rest of the world doesn't give a crap about GG nor realize much about it. Leave the gaming bubble. Maybe it'll look bad with it's usage here on this forum? Real world? No one cares what gaming enthusiasts are doing or feeling.
 

ara

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,024
Again, maybe here on this forum and a couple others. But you're wrong here. Rest of the world doesn't give a crap about GG nor realize much about it. Leave the gaming bubble. Maybe it'll look bad with it's usage here on this forum? Real world? No one cares what gaming enthusiasts are doing or feeling.

Wait, are we still talking about "SJW"? Cause that's definitely not a gaming enthusiast thing, people all over the internet absolutely like to call all left-leaning progressives SJWs all the goddamn time.
 

ultra bawl

User requested ban
Banned
Nov 6, 2017
1,137
cocksucker isn't a homophobic slur
Yeah, I don't understand where the hate for that is coming from. I've never heard it used as a homophobic slur.
It's there to degrade someone for "sucking cock" - i.e. you are making fun of them by insinuating they engage in a homosexual act. IMO it's homophobic (just as it's misogynist when aimed at women, though it is typically aimed at men).

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/03/anderson-cooper-explains-antigay-slur-alec-baldwin.html
https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/5/2/15515066/stephen-colbert-trump-putin-homophobia-late-show

Nobody ever tries to insult men by insinuating they have sex with women. They do try to insult men by insinuating or highlighting that they sleep with men. This is homophobia based on the idea that homosexual intimacy is humiliating and shameful. 100% not interested in arguing this point anymore though, it's tiresome.
 

Clix

Banned
Wait, are we still talking about "SJW"? Cause that's definitely not a gaming enthusiast thing, people all over the internet absolutely like to call all left-leaning progressives SJWs all the goddamn time.

No I was discussing that was that it's an older term, beyond internet meme culture and internet culture. I think sometimes internet culture would be surprised how different it seems out in the world away from our computers. It's a term hats been used and still use by both conservatives and progressives.

And while social justice warrior is an older term, I will concede the acronym SJW was started as a result of GG and online trolls.
 

ara

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,024
No I was discussing that was that it's an older term, beyond internet meme culture and internet culture. I think sometimes internet culture would be surprised how different it seems out in the world away from our computers. It's a term hats been used and still use by both conservatives and progressives.

And while social justice warrior is an older term, I will concede the acronym SJW was started as a result of GG and online trolls.

Fair enough. Though I'm going to maintain that anyone who uses "SJW" online unironically probably isn't worth listening to on whatever topic it was that made them call others SJWs.