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Magnus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,388
news.blizzard.com

Diablo IV Quarterly Update—December 2020

We’re excited about several big updates and revisions that the team’s worked on for a long time that we are trying to complete before the holidays.

The focus is on itemization and stats. I wasn't AS invested in Diablo III as everyone, but loved playing it a bunch in recent years. I recently started D4 dev much more closely, and finding myself really excited by it. Are these changes good? Educate me!

High-level info:
  • Gaining a level gives you points to spend into certain stats, like Strength, etc. Once certain stat thresholds are reached, bonus effects on some skills activate.
  • Weapon types' physical attributes come into play in a bigger way, including attack speed. GIFs show off how different it will feel to cast an auto-shot as a caster while using a slower staff vs. a faster wand.
  • Item quality philosophy changes, resulting in things like a greater range of strength/possibilities on blue/magics, increased number of affixes on yellow/rares, random affixes on orange/legendaries (this is a big deal, right?), no more Mythics, and increased prominence for Uniques, which will have fixed effects/affixes that you build around.
 

Falchion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,061
Boise
No we don't. But I think it's safe to say 2022 at the very earliest, but more likely 2023-2024. We've got a long way to go.
Maybe 2022 at earliest. This game is FAR out to the point they can't even say it'll be soon (tm).

Yeah I was hoping for sometime 2022 optimistically but wouldn't be surprised if it's later than that. I mean Overwatch 2 doesn't even have an announce date yet..........
 

Deleted member 34714

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 28, 2017
1,617
Stats required to unlock full potential of a skill is somewhat nice and refreshing? Basically stat will matter rather than in D3 where str/dex/int were just +dmg per point.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,648
These are solid changes to the itemization.

Of course end game is going to be Uniques + Legendaries (similar to PoE end game being Rares + Uniques) but I believe Set pieces are still in the game so I wonder how that will play out. Rares and Magics still have a place although I think Legendaries would beat out Rares (they are intended to) although in certain cases you may want some Magic items like say a Magic weapon with really high couple of relevant stats.

Stats being relevant is good and its also good they are iterating on their previously shown stuff like the skill tree (which felt a bit anemic).
 

Quample

Member
Dec 23, 2017
3,233
Cincinnati, OH
Stats required to unlock full potential of a skill is somewhat nice and refreshing? Basically stat will matter rather than in D3 where str/dex/int were just +dmg per point.

Yeah, I really like the idea.

Uniques coming back is a great thing. I assume the random legendary affixes will be dropped based on the character you're playing? It would be a pain in the ass otherwise considering how many there will probably be.

Did they officially say they're getting rid of increased attack speed as an affix? That would suck if true. I love creating super fast attack speed builds.
 

gabegabe

Member
Jul 5, 2018
2,766
Brazil
I'm glad stats will mean something now for the build rather than in Diablo 2 that it was basically "put enough str to use the gear and the rest in vit" or Diablo 3 that was basically nothing.
 
Sep 7, 2020
2,340
Yeah I am guessing at at a late 2023 release and that is assuming no major issues. I think that would put the development at about 5-6 years of announced development at least. I just want them to take their time and do what they think needs to be done but I am pleased to see that they are opening the lines of communication this early with the seasonal updates every quarter of the year.
 

Quample

Member
Dec 23, 2017
3,233
Cincinnati, OH
I also like that they're going skill trees this time around, and it seems you can respec but it will cost something. Based on a previous update where they showed the skill trees though, I think they need to keep playing with ideas. In my opinion, they very much need separate passive/active skill trees to take customization to the level it should be (or wait, is that what the root section of the skill tree was?).
 

piratepwnsninja

Lead Game Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
3,811
I still think late 2022, maybe spring 2023.

Very excited for this. Everything they're saying so far seems promising.
 

Hobbun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,404
I'm fine with Blizzard taking their time. I'm really glad they are making a point to put care into the console version, like still having couch co-op.
 

Joedev

Member
Apr 24, 2018
406
The item stuff sounds good. Makes all 3 types of items (Magic, Rare, and Legendary) possible to use.

Magic - Less affixes, but a higher maximum

Rare - More affixes, Lower maximum

Legendary - Less affixes, lower maximum, but contains random Legendary affix
 

AuthenticM

Son Altesse Sérénissime
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
30,267
Will this game have actual builds that you need to commit to, like Diablo 2? I really disliked Diablo 3's "pick what you want whenever you want" style of character customization.
 

Dolce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,256
Will this game have actual builds that you need to commit to, like Diablo 2? I really disliked Diablo 3's "pick what you want whenever you want" style of character customization.

There are skill trees more like Diablo 2. Though hopefully re-speccing is super simple, having to re-roll a character for most of Diablo 2s life was the dumbest thing and just lead to using cookie cutter builds without experimentation.
 

8byte

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt-account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,880
Kansas
Leveling up sounds closer to the souls games? So you get stat points to further customize your build? Would be could if you had to level into a class to unlock abilities instead of having defined classes, but that also is antithetical to Diablo's history.
 

Arkeband

Banned
Nov 8, 2017
7,663
I really don't understand the rationale of this design-by-committee style development. Are they really so unsure of what they want to make that they're taking fan feedback at this early of a stage?

I mean, I guess it's better than shipping a badly designed game like vanilla Diablo 3, but it's still very weird to me.

The only thing that sends up red flags here is that:

  • Stat bonuses on skills sound nice in theory but the skills they showed are prioritizing stats you're going for anyway - STR and some DEX on a whirlwind barb, and willpower on a mage... it'd be far more interesting if STR somehow boosted your frost blades, encouraging unorthodox stat builds.
  • Uniques in D2 had the capability of being forged into stronger tiers with the Horadric Cube, which was lost in D3 in favor of just scaling items automatically based on your level (boring). I would love to see these "static modifiers" remain static (and useful) with the possibility of holding onto early uniques and boosting their stats to be competitive with later loot, rather than just tossing old uniques for new ones you find with higher scaled stats.
 

Anoregon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,102
This is probably the first of these updates that I actually feel quite good about overall. I think the direction they are going in with items seems pretty solid, and the idea that rare/legendary/unique items are all essentially on the same baseline "tier" but with different levels of locked-in affixes vs randomness is a potentially effective choice. If they get the balance right then you'll have many builds that have use a few specific legendary/unique items and then try to fill the rest of their slots with the best possible rares, which is fairly similar to how D2 and PoE work.
 

spacer

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,970
Honestly, one of the things I hated about D3 was that your weapons weren't used in your ability animations. It basically made the entire Monk class unplayable for me, because it annoyed me that much. If I'm correctly understanding the updates in the "Weapon Type" section, it seems like they're changing that. That's fantastic.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,648
I really don't understand the rationale of this design-by-committee style development. Are they really so unsure of what they want to make that they're taking fan feedback at this early of a stage?

I mean, I guess it's better than shipping a badly designed game like vanilla Diablo 3, but it's still very weird to me.

The only thing that sends up red flags here is that:

  • Stat bonuses on skills sound nice in theory but the skills they showed are prioritizing stats you're going for anyway - STR and some DEX on a whirlwind barb, and willpower on a mage... it'd be far more interesting if STR somehow boosted your frost blades, encouraging unorthodox stat builds.
  • Uniques in D2 had the capability of being forged into stronger tiers with the Horadric Cube, which was lost in D3 in favor of just scaling items automatically based on your level (boring). I would love to see these "static modifiers" remain static (and useful) with the possibility of holding onto early uniques and boosting their stats to be competitive with later loot, rather than just tossing old uniques for new ones you find with higher scaled stats.
It's not intuitive to have your Frost Blades be boosted by STR and if that were the case then everyone would do that because they would just be able to stack STR for the life/life regen/armor stats and be a tanky mage.

Also the way to "fix" this is to simply have Uniques that allow for STR scaling on your spell skills. This will allow for the possibility of unorthodox stat builds.

Might have missed an earlier post but I do believe they said that uniques will scale will level like D3.

I do agree that this design-by committee thing is a bit weird. It feels like the game is being focus tested during development.



The item stuff sounds good. Makes all 3 types of items (Magic, Rare, and Legendary) possible to use.

Magic - Less affixes, but a higher maximum

Rare - More affixes, Lower maximum

Legendary - Less affixes, lower maximum, but contains random Legendary affix
There is a 4th type as well, Uniques where are all the affixes are fixed on them. So it's possible that a unique might have ALL unique affixes or legendary affixes. There are also set items. I believe their plan is to have uniques, legendaries and set items to be on the same power level with Rares just behind them.


  • Item quality philosophy changes, resulting in things like a greater range of strength/possibilities on blue/magics, increased number of affixes on yellow/rares, random affixes on orange/legendaries (this is a big deal, right?), no more Mythics, and increased prominence for Uniques, which will have fixed effects/affixes that you build around.
I missed the questions here.

Yea these are a major step over Diablo 3, assuming the Set items are on a similar power level of Legendaries. In D3, Class sets far out classed Legendaries and were generally pretty mandatory. It also really homogenized builds since you just picked a skill that you liked and use its associated Set piece. Here there are far more options. Uniques are potentially build changing/enabling and you can then use items around that. I feel that in 90% of cases Legendaries will be more powerful than Rares but builds will be more some combination of Legendaries + Uniques and maybe a 2 piece set thrown in. It's actually possible that Magic items might make a comeback since weapon DPS is so big in these games and a good magic weapon may outclass most Legendaries even (if the two stats you get on it are relevant to your build). At least early on, I am sure after min/maxing it will be Legendaries with the affixes you want.

The only thing we have to be wary about are Legendaries or uniques that buff a certain skill to some absurd level where they are mandatory. Stuff like your Frozen Orb fires off two additional orbs would be so silly and would invalidate any Rare/Magic weapon and most other Legendaries/uniques in that slot. That's basically what Diablo 3 was... use this Legendary to triple your damage with X skill then use this set piece to buff the damage of X skill by an additional *checks notes* 10000%.
 
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Tahnit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,965
This all sounds great. Seems like they are learning some lessons from d3. Items should not define a character but support it.
 

Dolce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,256
This all sounds great. Seems like they are learning some lessons from d3. Items should not define a character but support it.

I dunno, there are a lot of items in Diablo 2 that can completely redefine how a class plays and that can also be fun. Enigma changes the entire game but there are also tons of fun builds where you get a skill from a completely different class and build around it.
 

Charismagik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,194
I'd honestly rather not hear about this game until it's ready to come out. There's nothing worse than dragging out info on a game for years. Especially if it ends up kind of meh(cough...cyberpunk)
 

Dolce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,256
I'd honestly rather not hear about this game until it's ready to come out. There's nothing worse than dragging out info on a game for years. Especially if it ends up kind of meh(cough...cyberpunk)

The "design around what the fans want" stuff means we're going to be hearing about it constantly. Not a fan of that either.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,648
The stat changes are also a big improvement over D3.

Like it's actually perfectly fine to throw Dexterity on your Barbarian, in fact in many cases it would be better than getting more STR (based on how diminishing returns work). Getting crit chance and dodge is pretty big on a tanky barbarian character. In D3 you would basically not ever do something like this.

Gating skill upgrades being stats is also good, it means that you would want specific stats on your gear as well which makes itemization more complex than just "Get life and resistances".
 

Wracu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,396
Why we got fixed Melee Damage and Attack Speed on an obvious caster unique???

Don't be weird with Druids Blizz

(I'm aware the game is ages from release and this is all mock-up anyway)
 

secretanchitman

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,813
Chicago, IL
Itemization looks solid now and happy to see stats back! High resolution item tooltips look great as well, but no mention of set items? Have they been removed?

Looks like we'll get the 4th character reveal at Blizzcon in February - Paladin or Amazon?
 

ReCross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
195
Those generic flat attack and defense stats on the items still bother me. It's like straight out of a mobile game.
 

Fawz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,673
Montreal
It's awesome that they're still regularly sharing meaty information that is iterating based on feedback. Overall I'm loving the direction is taking, namely moving away from all power coming from items and all characters and classes being identical if you so chose.

It sounds like we're getting another Class reveal at BlizzCon, I'm expecting an Archer type class (ie: Amazon) or a agile hybrid
 

VeryHighlander

The Fallen
May 9, 2018
6,427
It looks like they are genuinely listening to the community feedback which is a great sign. Still I can't help but feel there are too many things they'd have to straight up lift from PoE in order to go the distance. Like, the fact there will be gold in this game feels a little weird knowing just how useless it is as a currency in D3. It's literally just time-sink based currency rather than something we actually want to use. Still the gifs they play look really smooth and you just know the actual gameplay it self is going to be SOLID. I am starting to get hyped for this.
 

Quample

Member
Dec 23, 2017
3,233
Cincinnati, OH
The "design around what the fans want" stuff means we're going to be hearing about it constantly. Not a fan of that either.

Them listening to fans is what made D3 RoS happen from what I gather (I don't know if Blizzard said that directly, but they fixed a lot of issues players had with the game). For some genres/games it may not be a good thing, but in this case I think it's necessary.

It seems like Blizzard is definitely taking notes from PoE to some degree, which is good. I personally think PoE is a little convoluted and rough around the edges overall, but there is a lot that it got right that D3 got wrong.

Launch D3 and PoE are sort of on two extreme ends of the loot arpg complexity spectrum, and by my completely made up calculations, I'd say D4 progression/itemization should be here:


Diablo 3---------------------------------------------------RoS----------------------------------------------D4-------------------------------------------------PoE

There need to be way more synergistic possibilites than even RoS had, while maintaining the quality control/balancing/clarity that PoE lacks.
 
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Wracu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,396
Have they talked about item trading/player economy yet? Because the changes in this update are leaning heavily in that direction. Which is a good thing.

I'm not seeing any "soulbound" or "can be traded with party members within one hour" text on those items. Not that that necessarily means anything.
 

Rodney McKay

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,253
These blogs don't do a ton for me, since it seems like they're changing a lot of what I liked about Diablo 3, so the game will have to be out before I can tell if I like these changes or not.

Not a big fan of manually putting points into stats anymore in games, whenever that's a thing I usually just consult a guide to make sure I'm not screwing up.
The weapon and item changes seem fine, though. Didnt dislike it in D3, but maybe this'll be better.

One thing's for sure, after playing Diablo 3 on Switch so much, it's going to suck not having Diablo 4 on a handheld.
I guess my best hope is either for a Switch Pro/2 to come out and get a native port, wait for the console ports and stream to my phone or tablet, or hope Blizzard puts in controller support in the PC version and I can stream it from there (which I don't see happening).
 

Nali

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,668
A lot of this falls under "sounds good on paper, will have to see how the execution plays out in practice", but tentatively it feels like they're headed in the right direction.
 

diablogg

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3,293
Seems ok I guess. I have higher hopes for Diablo 4 than I did a month ago, now that former lead designer David Kim was "promoted" to WoW. His ideas about the design philosophy of Diablo were very disheartening to me.