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DF (Richard): Every single developer I have talked to about developing on PS5, has been evangelizing how easy it is to work for
- Thread starter brokenswiftie
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You know damn well they are knocking back some hard seltzers! Lol
Yeah I didn't know games other than Knack existed til this thread
DMCV is 1080p 60 fps on both consoles with rt on. 30 fps at native 4k.
either there is a bottleneck somewhere (in both systems) or capcom's engine is having issues with next gen consoles. 1440p 60 fps should be easily doable for any game that runs at native 4k 30 fps on zen 2 cpus.
re8 might not look as good as other ps5 exclusives, but it definitely looks better than dmcv which is only running at 1080p 60 fps.
Maybe so, that's a good point about the resolution. Although from what I've seen, DMC is using the Ray Tracing far more aggressively than some other games, so maybe that's the reason for only 1080p60 with RT?
Yeah they might be doing really aggressive RT. If it's full path 1080p makes sense. Vs where a game like R&C is selectively reflecting things n top of 60 FPS. That game has a shit load to keep up with every 16ms
I'm very curious as to why DMC5 isn't using reconstruction like the current gen versions in the RT mode. It had excellent IQ at a reconstructed 1800p on PS4 Pro. The modes they've discussed all sound like a significant downgrade from the current game unless the 120fps mode is the same as the current set up.
Can you clearly see framerate issues? Because if you actually watch the uploaded footage and not the live stream I would argue the "framerate" issues are negligible and being blown out of proportion. The dips appeared in the live stream, ratchet and clank also had dips in the initial live stream showing, watch the uploaded trailers then make a little more informed decision.
Something does seem to be up with RE8. All the trailers they have shown have weird framerates.
My cousin's brother's sister's former roommate told me...
Is it possible that it's simply Capcom's engine struggling with next gen and the more powerful XSX's higher ceiling is able to brute force past issues more than the PS5? Every single showing of RE8 has had frame-rate issues. Hearing that DMCV SE running at 1080p with Raytracing makes me think so. I'm not a dev but with how well Capcom's games have run on current gen it just seems like a disappointment.
but again, if they have RT at native 4k 30 fps, they should easily be able to halve the resolution and get the same RT at 60 fps. thats what i have done on my rtx card for a couple of years now. it scales down 1:1 just like any other visual effect. so even if the AMD RT is atrocious compared to Nvidia's RT, it shouldnt really matter.
I have no idea why they had to quarter the resolution to get 60 fps. something is off here.
I am legitimately looking forward to that 300 GB GTA 6 install.
Repeat of MGS4 where it has to download and install different parts based on what part of the game you're on.
Fair enough. Tell you what. Come to Houston and I'll split my "wine coolers" with you. If by wine coolers we mean a bottle of Maker's Mark Private Select
Sony's platform: PS5
Microsoft platform: Windows 10/X and Console, Streaming
Of course, Sony's platform is easier to develop because they don't have a platform beyond consoles. This is stating the obvious. But this will likely mean that majority of developers will be using Xbox's GDK to target Xbox and PC.
Microsoft platform: Windows 10/X and Console, Streaming
Of course, Sony's platform is easier to develop because they don't have a platform beyond consoles. This is stating the obvious. But this will likely mean that majority of developers will be using Xbox's GDK to target Xbox and PC.
This is completely irrelevant to the OP. Richard's statements are about the development environments.
No, it's definitely relevant. People were saying the PS5's variable clocks will be difficult to program around.
What if the PS5 is difficult to develop for in terms of maximizing its potential because of the SSD And variable clock speeds? The parallels between the PS3 and PS5 are uncanny, IMO.
RE 8 did have frame rate issues from what I saw.
RE 8 did have frame rate issues from what I saw.
Agreed. If the X1X can run DMC5 at checkerboard 4K 60fps (with minor drops), the PS5 should absolutely be able to match that while using its roughly doubled GPU power + RT acceleration for the RT effects.
PS5 is not hard to develop for, and it's definitely not as hard as PS3 was.
No they're not.
PS3's problem was that it was asking developers to change their software to best utilise parallel computing. The Cell processor was not entirely designed for consumer computing. I don't think there was a single consumer device that used the Cell architecture except for the PS3.
To this day most software do not handle or deal with a large number of threads well. Until the existence of AMD's Zen 2, a lot of tasks in Adobe's software suite was literally single threaded hence why Intel often cleaned up house in benchmarks with cheaper processors with significantly less threads.
Yeah he covered all his bases there. Like the weatherman in my country says "its going to be partly sunny tomorrow but with a bit of cloud cover and 30% chance of showers and maybe some snow".
He flushed away the good will with a single comment about re8 not working great on ps5. Really? That's what it takes?
I think some of you guys really need to temper your expectations...
You all remember that Devs sang their praises over how easy it was to develop for PS4 as well.
That doesn't mean that:
- Games will complete development much faster.
- Games will have no delays.
- Developers will not run into problems with a game they're making (e.g. RE Village)
- Games will be cheaper to make.
- Games will require less development resources. (Hello 4K textures.)
So remember that despite how easy it was to develop for PS4, that didn't stop lots of AAA games from having delays every year.
Remember how bad Assassin's Creed Unity ran because of the PS4 CPU? Again, that's a development issue, just because the PS5 is easy to develop for doesn't mean developers aren't going to run into issues.
The point is, some of you are taking the "PS5 is easy to develop for" and expanding it to all aspects of game development the same way when there was that thread that games could be ported to Switch at the push of a button.
You all remember that Devs sang their praises over how easy it was to develop for PS4 as well.
That doesn't mean that:
- Games will complete development much faster.
- Games will have no delays.
- Developers will not run into problems with a game they're making (e.g. RE Village)
- Games will be cheaper to make.
- Games will require less development resources. (Hello 4K textures.)
So remember that despite how easy it was to develop for PS4, that didn't stop lots of AAA games from having delays every year.
Remember how bad Assassin's Creed Unity ran because of the PS4 CPU? Again, that's a development issue, just because the PS5 is easy to develop for doesn't mean developers aren't going to run into issues.
The point is, some of you are taking the "PS5 is easy to develop for" and expanding it to all aspects of game development the same way when there was that thread that games could be ported to Switch at the push of a button.
Hmm, the reveal trailer drops down to like 15fps in parts and the new one is also capped at 30 and even drops below that. For a series that's targeting 60fps it's clear the RE team is having some issues. But I feel like Dusk shouldn't drop this kind of info , it only riles up console wars.The game is still ways off and it should get to a good performance level at launch.
He elected to go console wars with that shit. And now whenever his name is brought up this is what we get.
It was naive of him at best.
I think we should all put a moratorium on Dusk commentary. People got upset not because of the comments of RE8 but the reasons he gave for giving them. It didn't bother me but certainly there are people it did bother.
Holy shit. I just thought of something... Totally unoriginal but still a thought!
Perhaps this expedited GoW 2021's development due to the tools scaling incredibly well along with them having the engine ready to use and advance even more for next gen. Their original vision was to have Kratos instantly walk between worlds which is done in the game albeit, not instantaneously due to the bandwidth bottleneck. I wonder if they consulted Cerny during this period and he advised them to carry on with making the game and that next gen would address bottleneck such as these.
In his presentation he does talk about such meetings with developers and it's not uncommon for Sony studios to seek his technical expertise from time to time their projects.
In that sense it would continue the rapport when it comes to ease of development that the PS4 started. And it also makes sense that we're getting games that began development on PS4 getting next gen PS5 versions in a very timely fashion.
This only spells good news for me.
Perhaps this expedited GoW 2021's development due to the tools scaling incredibly well along with them having the engine ready to use and advance even more for next gen. Their original vision was to have Kratos instantly walk between worlds which is done in the game albeit, not instantaneously due to the bandwidth bottleneck. I wonder if they consulted Cerny during this period and he advised them to carry on with making the game and that next gen would address bottleneck such as these.
In his presentation he does talk about such meetings with developers and it's not uncommon for Sony studios to seek his technical expertise from time to time their projects.
In that sense it would continue the rapport when it comes to ease of development that the PS4 started. And it also makes sense that we're getting games that began development on PS4 getting next gen PS5 versions in a very timely fashion.
This only spells good news for me.
something like series s is a nightmare to develop for, and everyone loves the ps5.
There's nothing from Rich's statement that can be laser-pointed to any one single game, especially a game that we have no inkling in regards to how it's developed, how it looks or runs currently.
The broadest takeaway we can give to what Richard has said is additional confirmation of stuff that Jason Schreier and Jeff Grubb had previously reported, in that PS5 is an excellent machine that developers they talked to speak positively of.
RT at 60 Hz is expensive on the GPU, that is why it is 1080p60 on the consoles. We knew that or a long time from how RT performs on PC!
Since Richard mentioned it here I will also throw out there that I have Heard the same as he in regard to ease of development on PS5.
I think the idea of it being Hot Sounds reasonable - from rumour milling way back when, we knew PS5 dev Kits and environment were out there before XSX.
PS5 Was originally going to come out earlier in a different Configuration before that HW Plan changed - I would not doubt that the PlayStation dev environment is more mature for the hw at this point than the XSX one MS has.
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The reason is probably: The RT resolution will already be quarter res (or even lower) at 4K and the budget is 33.3ms per frame with a significant amount of that going to RT.
We know how AMD's RT solution works and it probably doesn't scale well because:
- You can use the TMUs either for ray intersection acceleration or for normal sampling.
- All other parts of the RT process are handled in software on the shader cores.
- The RT cannot be processed in parallel to the raster processing. (Only nvidia's 3000 cards can, currently)
DMC5: If we assume the simplified RT reflections in each frame will take ~8-10ms at 720p or lower, the remaining 8-6.6ms are for rasterization, combination, and post-processing. That is tight enough to explain 1080p for the resulting frame, as it is basically running the game at 150fps+ without RT.
Did we? Metro on my rtx 2080 was native 4k 30 fps with ray tracing, dropping down to 1440p help me hit 60 fps.
i didnt have to go all the way down to 1080p.
Your 2080 will in all likelihood be taking less of a % hit at similar quality than a console GPU will. We have yet to see the Turing vs. RDNA 2 metric for the cost of RT respectively, but I think the signs are pointing to it being generally more expensive on RDNA 2
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