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Dancrane212

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,962



Written article:

Within the casing, the Mini is powered by the mysterious Allwinner based ZUIKI Z 7213 system on chip - a processor on which little information is publicly available. It's likely comparable to Nintendo's recent retro mini offerings, but it's not clear how far its capabilities extend. Alongside the processor, the board features 512MB of flash memory that stores the included games. In terms of I/O, in addition to the controller ports, there's also HDMI video out - which delivers 720p 60Hz output - and a micro-USB port for power.

The Mini itself attempts to replicate a CRT experience with a bespoke filter, but to be honest, it's a disappointing effort. This is the most disappointing feature of M2's emulation as it simply blurs and filters the image while applying weak scanlines. It's not a great implementation and I wouldn't suggest using it. Overall, scaling isn't quite perfect in every mode but if you want to minimise scaling issues, most games play best using the default pillar boxed mode. For 256-pixel wide games, however, such as Wonder Boy in Monster World and Monster World 4, you'll want to use the wide mode coupled with manual TV adjustment for the best results.

In summary, there's so much to love about this product, from the brilliant recreation of the machine itself to the excellent emulation and a simply stellar line-up of games. Audio delay, input lag and scaling oddities hold this back from absolute perfection - but for the purists, there's always the Analogue Super Sg for absolute authenticity. However, for a product aimed at recapturing the magic of a very special era in console gaming, it's simply superb. If you grew up with Sega's 16-bit machine but haven't played it in a while, this is an unmissable release - and possibly the best mini retro console yet.
 

Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
23,580
Basically:

- The actual design has a lot of detail and thought gone into it
- Emulation has delayed sound and added input lag compared to the original. Still better than the latest collection, on par with the SNES Mini
- No mention of double inputs
- Possibly the best mini console out there
 

rawhide

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,003
Some of the interview-specific complaints I've seen, including the double-input thing mentioned in that now-deleted review, make me worry there are genuine quality control issues with the hardware and some people are getting defective units.

The software's pretty much as expected.
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
about to watch, but Dark1x and I were talking just yesterday about how awful the AtGames Megadrive is, does he go into any comparisons to that? Because that AtGames Megadrive is *awful*. He was doing some framerate analysis on it, and it runs at like only 40 FPS constantly. You can notice the framedrops by eye, but seeing an actual analysis on it is embarrassing. It's no surprise that the real megadrive mini is miles better.
 

Acidote

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,974
I just watched Spain win the FIBA Basketball World Cup 2019 and now I have a DF Retro Episode to watch. Perfect Sunday so far.

about to watch, but Dark1x and I were talking just yesterday about how awful the AtGames Megadrive is, does he go into any comparisons to that? Because that AtGames Megadrive is *awful*. He was doing some framerate analysis on it, and it runs at like only 40 FPS constantly. You can notice the framedrops by eye, but seeing an actual analysis on it is embarrassing. It's no surprise that the real megadrive mini is miles better.

I read his tweets about how he though he had something wrong with his capture card set up and then turns out the AtGames Megadrive is just that bad and his capture was perfect.
 

J_ToSaveTheDay

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
18,830
USA
I can't afford this at launch but if there's still some available at MSRP at the beginning of December, I'm in.. My first console was Genesis and aside from Sonic 3, Sonic and Knuckles, and TMNT, this has everything I fondly remember and a slew of games I was always curious about or learned about over the years, but never played.
 

zma1013

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,687
Is the list of games for this top secret? I can't get anything on google search to just give me a straight list. It's either videos or flip pages with only a single game per page. Anyone have a text list?
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
Is the list of games for this top secret? I can't get anything on google search to just give me a straight list. It's either videos or flip pages with only a single game per page. Anyone have a text list?

Full NA/EU list (games not in the Japanese Mini are in bold italics):


  • Alex Kidd in the Enchanted Castle
  • Alisia Dragoon
  • Altered Beast
  • Beyond Oasis
  • Castle of Illusion
  • Castlevania Bloodlines
  • Columns
  • Comix Zone
  • Contra: Hard Corps (aka Probotector)
  • Darius
  • Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine (localization of the first Puyo Puyo)
  • Dynamite Headdy
  • Earthworm Jim
  • Ecco the Dolphin
  • Eternal Champions
  • Ghouls & Ghosts
  • Golden Axe
  • Gunstar Heroes
  • Kid Chameleon
  • Landstalker
  • Light Crusader
  • Megaman: The Wily Wars
  • Monster World IV
  • Phantasy Star IV
  • Road Rash II
  • Shining Force
  • Shinobi III: Return of the Ninja Master
  • Street Fighter II: Special Championship Edition
  • Strider
  • Sonic Spinball
  • Sonic the Hedgehog
  • Sonic the Hedgehog 2
  • Space Harrier II
  • Streets of Rage 2
  • Super Fantasy Zone
  • Tetris
  • Thunder Force III
  • Toejam & Earl
  • VectorMan
  • Virtua Fighter 2
  • Wonder Boy in Monster World
  • World of Illusion
---

Full Japanese list (games not in the NA/EU Mini are in bold italics):


  • Alisia Dragoon
  • Assault Suit Leynos (Target Earth)
  • Castlevania Bloodlines
  • Columns
  • Comix Zone
  • Contra: Hard Corps
  • Darius
  • Dyna Brothers 2: Sega Channel Special
  • Dynamite Headdy
  • Game no Kanzume Otokuyou*
  • Ghouls & Ghosts
  • Golden Axe
  • Gunstar Heroes
  • Landstalker
  • Langrisser 2
  • Lord Monarch
  • MadĹŤ Monogatari
  • Monster World IV
  • MUSHA Aleste: Fullmetal Fighter Ellinor
  • Party Quiz Mega Q
  • Phantasy Star IV
  • Puyo Puyo Tsu
  • Puzzle & Action: Tant-R
  • Rent a Hero
  • Road Rash 2
  • Rockman Megaworld
  • Shining Force
  • Slap Fight MD
  • Snow Bros.
  • Sonic the Hedgehog 2
  • Space Harrier II
  • Street Fighter II' Champion Edition
  • Streets of Rage 2
  • Super Fantasy Zone
  • Tetris
  • The Hybrid Front
  • The Story of Thor (aka Beyond Oasis)
  • The Super Shinobi (aka The Revenge of Shinobi)
  • Thunder Force III
  • World of Illusion
  • Wrestleball
  • Yu Yu Hakusho: Makyou Toitsusen
----

Asian (games not in either Japanese or NA/EU Minis are in bold italics):


  • Alien Soldier
  • Alisa Dragoon
  • Assault Suit Leynos (Target Earth)
  • Castle of Illusion
  • Castlevania: Bloodlines
  • Columns
  • Comix Zone
  • Contra: Hard Corps
  • Darius
  • Ghouls & Ghosts
  • Golden Axe
  • Gunstar Heroes
  • Landstalker
  • Langrisser 2
  • Mega Man: The Wily Wars
  • Monster World IV
  • MUSHA Aleste: Fullmetal Fighter Ellinor
  • OutRun 2019
  • Phantasy Star IV
  • Puzzle & Action: Tant-R
  • Puyo Puyo (from which Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine is derived)
  • Puyo Puyo Tsu
  • Road Rash 2
  • SEGA Game Series Value Edition (Game no Kanzume Otokuyou)*
  • Shining Force
  • Shining Force II
  • Slap Fight
  • Snow Bros.
  • Sonic the Hedgehog
  • Sonic the Hedgehog 2
  • Space Harrier II
  • Streets of Rage 2
  • Strider
  • Super Fantasy Zone
  • Sword of Vermilion
  • Tetris
  • The Revenge of Shinobi
  • The Story of Thor (aka Beyond Oasis)
  • Thunder Force III
  • Wonder Boy in Monster World
  • World of Illusion
  • Wrestleball
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,673
The Milky Way
Full NA/EU list (games not in the Japanese Mini are in bold italics):


  • Alex Kidd in the Enchanted Castle
  • Alisia Dragoon
  • Altered Beast
  • Beyond Oasis
  • Castle of Illusion
  • Castlevania Bloodlines
  • Columns
  • Comix Zone
  • Contra: Hard Corps (aka Probotector)
  • Darius
  • Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine (localization of the first Puyo Puyo)
  • Dynamite Headdy
  • Earthworm Jim
  • Ecco the Dolphin
  • Eternal Champions
  • Ghouls & Ghosts
  • Golden Axe
  • Gunstar Heroes
  • Kid Chameleon
  • Landstalker
  • Light Crusader
  • Megaman: The Wily Wars
  • Monster World IV
  • Phantasy Star IV
  • Road Rash II
  • Shining Force
  • Shinobi III: Return of the Ninja Master
  • Street Fighter II: Special Championship Edition
  • Strider
  • Sonic Spinball
  • Sonic the Hedgehog
  • Sonic the Hedgehog 2
  • Space Harrier II
  • Streets of Rage 2
  • Super Fantasy Zone
  • Tetris
  • Thunder Force III
  • Toejam & Earl
  • VectorMan
  • Virtua Fighter 2
  • Wonder Boy in Monster World
  • World of Illusion
---

Full Japanese list (games not in the NA/EU Mini are in bold italics):


  • Alisia Dragoon
  • Assault Suit Leynos (Target Earth)
  • Castlevania Bloodlines
  • Columns
  • Comix Zone
  • Contra: Hard Corps
  • Darius
  • Dyna Brothers 2: Sega Channel Special
  • Dynamite Headdy
  • Game no Kanzume Otokuyou*
  • Ghouls & Ghosts
  • Golden Axe
  • Gunstar Heroes
  • Landstalker
  • Langrisser 2
  • Lord Monarch
  • MadĹŤ Monogatari
  • Monster World IV
  • MUSHA Aleste: Fullmetal Fighter Ellinor
  • Party Quiz Mega Q
  • Phantasy Star IV
  • Puyo Puyo Tsu
  • Puzzle & Action: Tant-R
  • Rent a Hero
  • Road Rash 2
  • Rockman Megaworld
  • Shining Force
  • Slap Fight MD
  • Snow Bros.
  • Sonic the Hedgehog 2
  • Space Harrier II
  • Street Fighter II' Champion Edition
  • Streets of Rage 2
  • Super Fantasy Zone
  • Tetris
  • The Hybrid Front
  • The Story of Thor (aka Beyond Oasis)
  • The Super Shinobi (aka The Revenge of Shinobi)
  • Thunder Force III
  • World of Illusion
  • Wrestleball
  • Yu Yu Hakusho: Makyou Toitsusen
----

Asian (games not in either Japanese or NA/EU Minis are in bold italics):


  • Alien Soldier
  • Alisa Dragoon
  • Assault Suit Leynos (Target Earth)
  • Castle of Illusion
  • Castlevania: Bloodlines
  • Columns
  • Comix Zone
  • Contra: Hard Corps
  • Darius
  • Ghouls & Ghosts
  • Golden Axe
  • Gunstar Heroes
  • Landstalker
  • Langrisser 2
  • Mega Man: The Wily Wars
  • Monster World IV
  • MUSHA Aleste: Fullmetal Fighter Ellinor
  • OutRun 2019
  • Phantasy Star IV
  • Puzzle & Action: Tant-R
  • Puyo Puyo (from which Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine is derived)
  • Puyo Puyo Tsu
  • Road Rash 2
  • SEGA Game Series Value Edition (Game no Kanzume Otokuyou)*
  • Shining Force
  • Shining Force II
  • Slap Fight
  • Snow Bros.
  • Sonic the Hedgehog
  • Sonic the Hedgehog 2
  • Space Harrier II
  • Streets of Rage 2
  • Strider
  • Super Fantasy Zone
  • Sword of Vermilion
  • Tetris
  • The Revenge of Shinobi
  • The Story of Thor (aka Beyond Oasis)
  • Thunder Force III
  • Wonder Boy in Monster World
  • World of Illusion
  • Wrestleball
Amazing lineup in every territory.
 

sir_crocodile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,506
Great video. Issues are a big shame, but my primary reason to get the mini is to have legal copies of some of the rarer games I don't own (hopefully someone will find a way to dump them lol).
With the input lag I suspect I'll be sticking to blastem/mega sg most of the time though.

Story of Thor/Beyond Oasis is the secret best game on this mini console btw
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
Is there a reason why this outputs 720p instead of 1080p?

you can letterbox the genesis 320x224 output to 320x240 which will then provide a very easy 4:3 integer scaling, which looks better with the type of dithering the genesis does. Further, 720p scales to 4k much easier at an integer 3:3 scaling. So by outputting 720p, you could integer scale the entire image up to 4k without problem.

At least, that's why you should output at 720, dunno if this does that (i.e. letterbox the output to 240 vertical lines).
 

Mars People

Comics Council 2020
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,196
Just finished the video.
This seems strichtly inferior to just emulating the games on a PC.
I can't see why you'd pay money for this. Too many problems.
 

PC98_Audi

Producer @ Limited Run Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
261
Raleigh
Funny note, John got that AtGames unit cause I had to avoid causing a security issue at the airport (for the second time...) when bringing the CD-i lightgun with me in the luggage for future video purposes, and I put it in the AtGames box so that when they looked through my stuff it was clearly a toy and video game gun. Glad he found some use for it cause that thing is a fucking awful product and the unit itself smells like Chinese cheap plastic.
 

Meatwad

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,653
USA
Just finished the video.
This seems strictly inferior to just emulating the games on a PC.
I can't see why you'd pay money for this. Too many problems.

This is a device meant for casual users who just want to revisit some nostalgia without having to set up an emulator and rip their cartridges and all of that hassle. For what it is and what it sets out to accomplish it does a damn good job
 

Meatwad

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,653
USA
Also come on, it isn't strictly about playing games, I find these mini consoles to be highly collectible and they look cool on a shelf
 

mrchad

Member
Oct 27, 2017
765
Nice review. Not sure if I'd notice the audio and input lag issues, and the sound emulation differences seem very subtle. I could barely tell the difference in the video with the side-by-side comparisons.
 

bwahhhhh

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,162
Does anyone know the language of the games/UI in the Asian version? I have the Genesis mini pre-ordered, but I prefer the aesthetics of the Mega Drive, and the 6-button controllers.

Though I suppose before too long, I'll just be able to load the exact Genesis UI/games onto the Asian MD mini
 

scamander

Member
Oct 27, 2017
522
bwahhhhh The UI is available in English, Japanese and several other languages in all regions. The same is true for the games if applicable. Some of the games in the Asian/ Japanese mini don't have an English version, though and will still be in Japanese. Most games are still playable if you don't know the language, Langrisser II is the huge exception.
 

Windrunner

Sly
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,500
The issues with this are quite disappointing but I see this as a way of owning several very rare Mega Drive games (Japanese version) for play on real hardware or FPGA solutions so I am okay with it. I wonder if M2 have stretched themselves too thin over the last couple of years because they've been rather prolific and this emulator is really not up to their standards.
 

rawhide

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,003
The issues with this are quite disappointing but I see this as a way of owning several very rare Mega Drive games (Japanese version) for play on real hardware or FPGA solutions so I am okay with it. I wonder if M2 have stretched themselves too thin over the last couple of years because they've been rather prolific and this emulator is really not up to their standards.

They definitely made this under strict deadlines but I don't think it's markedly worse than their typical work, especially given the hardware spec.
 

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,894
How much lag are we talking?

Like, my NES Classic has been sitting in the box since day one because of it.
I found the lag for SNES games to be way more tolerable than it was for NES.

Mario and Zelda and MarioKart were fine. But I don't want to play Mike Tyson or Ninja Gaiden with any lag because I remember how it felt on OG hardware.

I found the SNES emulation to be good and I am getting one of these two. Feels good to play it on a tv with the real controller.
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
The game has a single frame of baked in input lag

No, it has more.

which seems to be the norm for the vast majority of Megadrive titles.

It is the norm for all Genesis titles, because of how you read controller inputs on the Genesis. Reading controller inputs on the genesis is a two step process: you first write $40 to dataport $A10008 or $A1000A to signal the high byte read, which requires at least a 1 NOP wait period, then read the result, then write $00 to dataport $A10008 or $A1000A to signal the low byte read, which again requires 1 NOP, then read the result into a single 16-bit packed word. This requires a single frame at the least to accomplish before you can examine the word.
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,334
I'm planning to pick up the JP version while in Japan.

Some questions:

* Are the controllers standard USB? It would be really neat to be able to use 6 button pads on a PC.
* Am I missing out on any classics? I feel I can live without most of the US selection. Not sure about Light Crusader, Vectorman and Wonder Boy in Monster World. Too bad about Shinobi III.
* Are the extension gadgets (the 32X and the CD) exclusive somewhere, or should I be able to find them in a regular store?
* Will all the games that had English translations be playable in English just by switching the region?
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 17210

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,569
It sucks to hear about the imperfections of the Genesis mini but it's not unprecedented with M2. Even their 3DS Genesis games has some audio issues. I noticed the maze level in Shinobi III sounding more tinny than real hardware and Streets of Rage had the volume too low on some parts of the music. These aren't things most people would notice, though.

I found the lag for SNES games to be way more tolerable than it was for NES.

Mario and Zelda and MarioKart were fine. But I don't want to play Mike Tyson or Ninja Gaiden with any lag because I remember how it felt on OG hardware.

I found the SNES emulation to be good and I am getting one of these two. Feels good to play it on a tv with the real controller.
Have you tried the SNES mini controller on the NES mini? Part of what I thought was lag was just the shitty NES mini controller.
 

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,894
It sucks to hear about the imperfections of the Genesis mini but it's not unprecedented with M2. Even their 3DS Genesis games has some audio issues. I noticed the maze level in Shinobi III sounding more tinny than real hardware and Streets of Rage had the volume too low on some parts of the music. These aren't things most people would notice, though.


Have you tried the SNES mini controller on the NES mini? Part of what I thought was lag was just the shitty NES mini controller.
Thanks I will try that.

In general I can live with a little bit of lag, with the exception of the NES. I just played it too much on CRT sets and for some games like Megaman I get turned off by any lag. They are still playable but for me personally I can't stand it.
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537



In Wily Wars, all three games are let down by input lag and general handling issues.


Controller inputs are delayed as well, making the entire game feel off in general.

Technical analysis of how the delay is caused, and how it's fixed:


The actual patch, which you can examine in a hex editor and verify:


It's literally impossible to fix a "1-frame input delay" on the genesis, ergo it clearly was more than a 1-frame input delay.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 5956

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
353







Technical analysis of how the delay is caused, and how it's fixed:


The actual patch, which you can examine in a hex editor and verify:


It's literally impossible to fix a "1-frame input delay" on the genesis, ergo it clearly was more than a 1-frame input delay.

Use frame advance in an emulator and you can see that megaman shifts his feet on the second frame, it then takes several more for the walk animation to actually engage. Shot, jump and pause etc also all respond on the second frame.
 

kubev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,533
California
That game shows up in all the compilations and people still haven't wisened up to how cool it is.
I don't think any of the articles or videos for the Genesis Mini really go into what makes the game special. I bring Beyond Oasis up on occasion in Breath of the Wild threads, as I think Beyond Oasis does breakable weapons right. Also, I love the strategy of summoning elementals from less obvious targets, such as your own bombs' explosions or from enemies, rather than just relying on static scenery. I have to say that Beyond Oasis was the first game I played that made good use of positional audio, and I also love how the HUD changes positions based on what's going on in the game.
 

ReyVGM

Author - NES Endings Compendium
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
5,438
I cancelled mine because of that shimmering issue. That's something that I really really hate.

I'll wait until it gets hacked to see if that can be fixed, or maybe Sega will release a revision that fixes it.
 

sir_crocodile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,506
I don't think any of the articles or videos for the Genesis Mini really go into what makes the game special. I bring Beyond Oasis up on occasion in Breath of the Wild threads, as I think Beyond Oasis does breakable weapons right. Also, I love the strategy of summoning elementals from less obvious targets, such as your own bombs' explosions or from enemies, rather than just relying on static scenery. I have to say that Beyond Oasis was the first game I played that made good use of positional audio, and I also love how the HUD changes positions based on what's going on in the game.

I still remember the first time I summoned Shade from the knight's armour lol

My fave features of Story of Thor are

- The combat (which I assume came from Ancient working on the Streets of Rage games, I guess they had access to the source code)
- The fantastic atmospheric soundtrack from Yuzo Koshiro. So different from his usual work but so perfect for this game.
- All the awesome puzzles and secrets in the game. Getting all the infinity weapons was extremely tough, but very satisfying

And of course visually the game just looks fantasitc