About all I'd expect from third party devs, is maybe quicker load times and quicker streaming in of assets changing lod levels. But I expect great things from (true) exclusives.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
DF: PS5’s Variable Clocks Will Force Devs to Make Choices; Only 1st Party Will Truly Utilize SSD’s Speed (wccftech)
- Thread starter lunanto
- Start date
Yup. Ask Microsoft how those impulse triggers that no one even thinks about worked out for them.
I was talking with a friend this afternoon about this. PS5 is doing a PS3 in the sense that it is pushing more to revolution, while XSX is pushing for evolution. So, it looks like XSX will have the biggest market share this time, both on console and streaming.
That said, PS5 exclusives, without PC ports (which is becoming more and more unlikely), will be something to look out for.
That said, PS5 exclusives, without PC ports (which is becoming more and more unlikely), will be something to look out for.
I hope I'm wrong but overclocking everything seems like an afterthought in reaction to Microsoft's numbers. Why in the world would you spend more money on a cooling solution vs. just a better cpu gpu?
Last edited:
Variable frequencies sounds like such a horrible, horrible idea. I don't give the slightest fucks about 3D audio. Not even a little, so them investing so strongly in that instead of say, more CU's for ray tracing is insane to me. Like WTF, Sony?
And having a cooling solution that could sustain those frequencies? Sure, that'd be neat. But having the GPU power vary based on the frequency means the PS5 isn't even a 10.28 tflops machine, that number will go down depending on how much the frequency goes down. He didn't mention how low it'll go, which honestly worries me.
I'm absolutely sure that lower tflops with higher frequencies are more efficient. The problem is, these higher frequencies aren't "locked in".
So let's have a little thought experiment... The GPU on the PS5 runs mostly on a 2.23 GHz frequency. Let's bring it down 4 %... We're now at 2.14 Ghz, which would give us roughly ~9.9 tflops... And who the fuck knows how low it'll go?!
I completely agree with John. Give me stable frequencies any day of the week over this crap. I still want to see how the real world performance does against a stable 12.1 tflops machine running at 1.825 GHz, but there is no doubt in my mind the Series X is on top, ultra-fast SSD be damned.
And having a cooling solution that could sustain those frequencies? Sure, that'd be neat. But having the GPU power vary based on the frequency means the PS5 isn't even a 10.28 tflops machine, that number will go down depending on how much the frequency goes down. He didn't mention how low it'll go, which honestly worries me.
I'm absolutely sure that lower tflops with higher frequencies are more efficient. The problem is, these higher frequencies aren't "locked in".
So let's have a little thought experiment... The GPU on the PS5 runs mostly on a 2.23 GHz frequency. Let's bring it down 4 %... We're now at 2.14 Ghz, which would give us roughly ~9.9 tflops... And who the fuck knows how low it'll go?!
I completely agree with John. Give me stable frequencies any day of the week over this crap. I still want to see how the real world performance does against a stable 12.1 tflops machine running at 1.825 GHz, but there is no doubt in my mind the Series X is on top, ultra-fast SSD be damned.
2x faster maximum sequential read speed doesn't translate to 50% loading times.
If anything id honestly say that sony went wayyy overboard on their SSD. There reallt was no need for them to make it as fast as they did when 3rd parties wont even be able to take advantage of it.
At this point, it's pretty clear that if you want the optimum 3rd party experience as well as BC compatibility with 100% of Xbox One games (specially relevant for people with Game Pass sub), XSX is the way to go.
microsoft is doing RT audio and things like project acoustics / triton / etc
they're actually going crazy
also Lockhart is an absolute non-factor. meaning it could handle pretty much anything you throw at PS5 @ 4K just at 1080p
according to Cerny we're talking about "a couple"; so interpreting this is a max 5% delta in fequencies sounds reasonable.
Thinking that the SSD was going to be the difference maker for third party games was always stupid. Sony used their own proprietary flash chipset to increase throughput. This means that devs would need to design their games to take advantage of it. Even when Jason said that devs were super pumped about it, everyone should've read between the lines and realize that this wasn't going to be the case for the majority of games being developed. Devs will always prefer more resources at their disposal than something specific that they have to work with. More resources gives devs more slack space and more room for optimization and error. Having a faster SSD through a higher throughput doesn't mean anything if the devs have to work around limited resources and design the throughput by modifying the access of the chipset.
So XSX will be my gamepass and multiplatform machine while PS5 will be for exclusives. I'm....ok with that.
Just to be clear before I get dog piled, I am in no way stating that PS5 is significantly weaker or a sub-10TF console. I hate console warrior BS. Numbers are what they are and they don't take sides even though the real world impact may be actually even less.
And for me, it's also about BC. Sony's messaging has left a lot to be desired pertaining to this matter (given this was a GDC conference, and not exactly meant for mainstream consumers, it's understandable).
Even third party developers this gen have shown to individually optimize for each console so I seriously doubt that they won't take advantage of the SSD's capabilities.
It will eventually be more than that. 3rd party's common base will be XBO for some time still but once they'll go to next gen basis we'll see a lot of cool stuff being done in both graphics and game design thanks to the SSDs.
PS5's SSD advantage though will likely be close to invisible in multiplatforms and questionable in exclusives.
The gloom in here vs the tangible praise and excitement from developers who are actually using the thing couldn't be farther apart 😄
Did we ever hear that the time to triangle on ps4 cerny claimed was inaccurate? If ps4 was indeed 1 to 2 months why would we not believe the 1month or less claim of the ps5?
Sounds like an answer to a question I had everyone ignored. Probably because everyone has me on their IGNORE list lol. 😂
But I guess mine was more in-line with the ssd differences
But I guess mine was more in-line with the ssd differences
Maybe, maybe not. It really depends on how difficult it is to implement these changes. Mark Cerny was talking like development in general on the console will be a cakewalk, but then again he's slightly biased towards his platform for obvious reasons. Time will tell. It's going to be an interesting generation.
I'd say disappointed. I much prefer MS's approach to their console design. I just can't wrap my head around why'd they do go with a solution like this. I don't think they're as close as insiders and journalists led us to believe.
It seems MS's really caught them off-guard, and they were scrambling for a solution to up the clocks so they could increase performance. This solution just seems like a disaster and so half-baked. It's definitely different, but I don't know if that's a good thing.
Yeah, like devs won't want to use every possible means of expanding their games. We'll see enhancement patches that boost games appropriately for next-gen consoles. Imagine Ubisoft's AC Vikings game with 5.5GB/sec pipelines available.
even if it is just 1st party
Sony's first party output wasn't only just technically great this gen but they gave us a ton of games to boot
so that imho is great just to see what WWS does with it alone
Sony's first party output wasn't only just technically great this gen but they gave us a ton of games to boot
so that imho is great just to see what WWS does with it alone
Yeah, that's what I've said (with others) in other threads. No point for devs doing multiplats to waste time on that.
Same reason that on paper, PS3 multiplats could have been better. But why do that when you're doing a multiplatform game. Exclusives should be pretty impressive in the same way though.
Same reason that on paper, PS3 multiplats could have been better. But why do that when you're doing a multiplatform game. Exclusives should be pretty impressive in the same way though.
Oh. I would like to be wrong in so many ways. Because I do want games to be built around what PS5 is proposing on the SSD and 3D audio. It looks more exciting and better for me as a player.
I just don't believe the majority of devs will receive a green light to do extra work for PlayStation. Then again, devs are doing extra for Stadia, so fingers crossed.
There is a certain point where the whole scalability argument falls flat on it face. Sure, your traditional loading screen load times will just simply scale between hardware. But when game devs have to design their environments in a manner that masks data streaming time like how there are those choke points in Jedi: Fallen Order etc, that is fundamental game design that has to account for the lowest common denominator platform's data access speed. If you only need to worry about your game running off of a high speed SSD without having to worry about also supporting data streaming from a 5400 RPM laptop mechanical hard drive, it will change the way you can approach game design.
It's such a dumb argument and every time I hear some PC gamer saying "welcome to 2013, console gamerz! hur dur dur" in regards to SSDs they completely miss the point.
It's not "weaker", it's slower but is still very fast and every other aspect of the XSX is more powerful and faster than the PS5 other than the PS5 gpu clock speed when it's throttling the CPU
Then buy an xbox and calm down.
Cerny illustrated his reasons pretty well in the video. The variable frequency explanation seemed to be an extension of AMD's SmartShift technology. If a scene doesn't require much CPU power it can send that juice to the GPU or vice versa. It also keeps power at a constant maximum that can be throttled down, so we should not experience the jet engine ala ps4 because the cooler is designed for the max the ps5 can output. Ambient temps should not affect performance.
The ram isn't necessarily weaker on the PS5, infact, similar to the point being discussed in the OP, the XSX ram set up is a little more complex. If devs require more than 10GB for the graphics side of things, they'll have to use a partial amount of the slower GDDR6 ram, something devs won't have to worry about with the PS5.
I can't imagine either of these consoles having a problem with pop-in or LoDs.
I'm really intrigued to see how Sony's first party takes advantage of its insane SSD speeds beyond pop-in and LoDs... because my feeble brain can't wrap my head around the possibilities.
Don't understand why Sony went with this design decision probably to keep the price low. I suspect the inevitable PS5 Pro will have far less comprimises.
OP
OP
Switch has two modes so two different fixed clock speeds.
PS5 is said to have variable clock speeds but the range of variation hasnt been specified, just the maximum.
What is goofy about that? He's right. You can pretend the numbers aren't real or don't matter but this is reality. The degree of difference will depend on the game and the developer but the game will also run better on the XSX.
How some of you can negatively spin or perceive the advances and custom hw tricks is beyond me.
But if some want to just be ignorant and pretend things are bad then you can stay in that bubble.
When you start seeing the games then I'm not so sure some will come back with any of the over reactions.
But if some want to just be ignorant and pretend things are bad then you can stay in that bubble.
When you start seeing the games then I'm not so sure some will come back with any of the over reactions.
The amount of FUD pertaining to variable clock for PS5 continues to illustrate how exhausting browsing PS5 threads can quickly become.
Is it a negative or..?
I hate this stage of console reveals. None of this shit makes any sense to me and as someone who buys consoles... this is the stuff I buy a console to avoid.
This sounds bad, but some people seem to think it means 1st party games will REALLY get a boost and then everything else will just be... normal?
I hate this stage of console reveals. None of this shit makes any sense to me and as someone who buys consoles... this is the stuff I buy a console to avoid.
This sounds bad, but some people seem to think it means 1st party games will REALLY get a boost and then everything else will just be... normal?