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DF: PlayStation 5 Ray Tracing First Look: Gran Turismo 7, Ratchet & Clank, Pragamata + More!
- Thread starter zombiejames
- Start date
Honestly, all I care about is that the framerate is locked at 60fps when playing. No RT in gameplay or replays with RT but 30fps etc, I would be fine with that as long as it never goes below 60fps in a race.
Ratchet's ray-traced floors on the city was great.
But man...
Why does the city has to be on alien/monster invasion again, lol...
I personally want to explore it calmly, talk to NPCs, buying items from shops, etc.
But man...
Why does the city has to be on alien/monster invasion again, lol...
I personally want to explore it calmly, talk to NPCs, buying items from shops, etc.
Ok, now this made me look up 'disingenuous' which I reckon I should have done earlier.
Ouch.
I'm sorry.
I swear to God the word I wanted to use was actually INGENUOUS. Like, rather the opposite.
I would never accuse DF of being misleading or false.
English is not my first language and I just thought I knew what the word meant. Pretty huge mistake.
Sorry for quoting you again but i need to apologize. Sorry, sorry, sorry.
Like I wrote above, I realised the word I was looking for was actually 'ingenuous'.
Candid, innocent if you prefer.
They dabbled a bit with that in Future trilogy (particularly ACiT). This will be the first all new R&C game since ACiT/Nexus so I'm hoping that they will continue to evolve the formula the way that those games did.
People judge by what they're given.
But you're right, there doesn't seem to be any/much ray tracing in their gameplay demo.
The car in front is clearly not reflecting your car.
You say that as if SVOGI is a piece of cake instead of basically being the most advanced non (fully) RT GI solution.
The same reason Metro Exodus uses checkerboarding for global illumination on high, despite being a DLSS game.
DLSS is a technique for taking the *final* frame and upscaling it (using motion vectors and other gubbins).
While you could use AI to take the result of the raytracing and denoise/upscale it before rendering it into the scene, that wouldn't be DLSS.
Using checkerboarding in combination with ray tracing to get more performance with limited ray casting ability makes perfect sense. Which is why Metro used it, and why we're seeing it here.
It'd be very weird for there to be all these performance tweaks if that's the case. Why use limited ray counts and checkerboarding, etc, if this is photo mode stuff? No reason not to ray trace at the full resolution if you aren't worried about having the next frame ready in 1/60th of a second or whatever.
LmfaoPeople judge by what they're given.
But you're right, there doesn't seem to be any ray tracing in their gameplay demo.
The car in front is clearly not reflecting your car.
Souls has a performance mode. There's hope more games will, but nothing's been stated. So much power being used on 4k would be an absolute waste. 1440p 60 modes, please.
We still don't know what AMD's hardware based RT solution is like.
And I'm curious how many of these are software based/compute based solution like the Cry Engine demo rather than being hardware accelerated. It had some quite obvious and aggressive optimisation techniques like you see in the PSV videos.
And I'm curious how many of these are software based/compute based solution like the Cry Engine demo rather than being hardware accelerated. It had some quite obvious and aggressive optimisation techniques like you see in the PSV videos.
gt7 100% will be at least 60fps (I see posibility of lower resolution 120fps mode also)
Looking at the 4K version of that offline, it is really hard to see what is going on due to the car movement. Really hard to see the reflections let alone if self-reflection is occuring. But one thing that can be seen later in the trailer is that a car far ahead of the player is not using RT (could just be cube maps), or at least RT which does not run every frame (another possible optimation, stagger RT update for things at a distance). The reflection on the car here updates about 1 time every 30 frames. Footage slowed down to 25%.People judge by what they're given.
But you're right, there doesn't seem to be any/much ray tracing in their gameplay demo.
The car in front is clearly not reflecting your car.
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If GTS is 1800p/60FPS on Pro, the PS5 won't have any problem to handle GT7 with or without RT.
But I am not sure about what RT could bring in gameplay sequence visually.
EDIT : I should have said RT reflections. I think RT GI could had a lot too the visuals.
If it is a toggle then the devs still have to take the time and effort to program in an alternative system for reflections, GI, etc. Doesn't sound very efficient.
Absolutely, what i meant is DF is being INGENUOUS, candid, innocent analyzing those RT reflections as they were going to be the same ingame.
I'm just skeptical, but then what the game currently looks like isn't really representative either, if GTS transformation in the last few months of development is an indication.
Yeah, then there's this, which is also true.
Basically i'd be very surprised if these consoles could use RT to that extent in a 60fps racing game, but I sure as hell won't complain if they can pull it off.
I just grew distrustful i guess. Oh, which is not to say GT7 won't be the best looking racer anywhere on release, because that it will surely be.
Gt7 pretty much answers how Lockhart will handle RT too. They are using 1/8 res RT buffers (from half 1080p checkerboard to 1080p and then upscaled to 4k), plus other tricks as handling the the surfaces closer to a perfect mirror (which requires less rays) and then making the result a bit rougher.
This coupled with another future tricks such as using sampler feedback and vrs inside the RT buffers I think it will enable console games to reach high resolution and framerates by making compromises that soon won't be needed on pcs.
In short, like other effects there's tons to play with regarding RT that allows to use the effect without degrading the visuals by that much.
Gonna be a really interesting generation.
This coupled with another future tricks such as using sampler feedback and vrs inside the RT buffers I think it will enable console games to reach high resolution and framerates by making compromises that soon won't be needed on pcs.
In short, like other effects there's tons to play with regarding RT that allows to use the effect without degrading the visuals by that much.
Gonna be a really interesting generation.
Did they say anything about Godfall? Looked like RT reflections in the announcement trailer but on the conference feed it looked more like screen space (though I didn't watch the full trailer afterwards)
Insomniac gave up on 60FPS targets after A crack in time...saying they don't think it sells more copies.
Though that was before majority of top 10 most played games became 60FPS games.
If they didn't do 60FPS for pro version of 2016 R&C then they won't do it here either.
It's interesting to see what kind of tricks developers employ and what kind of corners they cut to squeeze out as much performance as possible.
While I'm very happy about RT becoming more widely used, I agree.
I hope every game has a graphics or performance option next gen. That way everyone is happy.
Just finished watching this. Some of the explanations are over my head but any time Alex talks about ray tracing I'm super interested. I love learning about the tech and some of the finer details. I'm most interested in what it means for global illumination.
People judge by what they're given.
But you're right, there doesn't seem to be any/much ray tracing in their gameplay demo.
The car in front is clearly not reflecting your car.
Shame to still see minor pop-out in the rear view mirror. And the tunnel lights pop in as well. Hopefully they can address this before release.
Interesting to see the different implementations and occasional shortcomings. I think it'll be a while until devs figure out which versions are the most worthwhile.
I'm guessing the rearview mirror isn't raytraced? If it's done the classic way it's usually bound to have more pop-in (or pop-out I guess)
Yeah, I notice quite a bit of pop in for the GT7 footage, which is disappointing. Hopefully that gets brushed up. Seem pretty much a non issue in the other games on show from Sony.
I'd say none. the Cryengine demo was just a graphics demo with nothing else going on. since it's not available in games yet, we can't tell how well it works in an actual game. and even then, they said it will be hardware accelerated in the future
Wouldn't say laughable but its ridiculous. R&C is in one the genre that sees one of the most benefits with 60fps
Compared to the expectations of this gen just a year ago, the new consoles are blowing away my expectations of what they can do. This is just from some early games with limited time with the tech. By 2022, I expect some awesome uses coming from these cards. I also hope that a lot of these devs turn give us options for a 1440p 60fps mode because i would take that anyday. 1440p is more than good enough for me especially if they are using reconstruction
Yeah. The RDNA2 architecture doesn't have an RT core (or tensor core) equivalent.
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According to DF. I guess they would need more in-game footage to 100% test it but thats what the video said.
What I'd love is a little table so that we can discuss "native" resolution in every game! It would make internet wars so much more fun!
Main polygonal models (Static) - 4k, checkerboard, upscaled
Main polygonal models (moving) - as above
Global illumination - static, RT, RT checkerboard, RT@1080p, other
Self shadowing - none, RT, RT checkerboard, RT@1080p, other
Shadow fall off - none, RT, RT checkerboard, RT@1080p , "fake" using the example in the video of "fog" overlaid in layers, across the surface
Roughness cut off for switching between RT and SSR - none, high, medium, low
Comparing XSX versus PSV port of a game in a console war is going to get really complicated!
Main polygonal models (Static) - 4k, checkerboard, upscaled
Main polygonal models (moving) - as above
Global illumination - static, RT, RT checkerboard, RT@1080p, other
Self shadowing - none, RT, RT checkerboard, RT@1080p, other
Shadow fall off - none, RT, RT checkerboard, RT@1080p , "fake" using the example in the video of "fog" overlaid in layers, across the surface
Roughness cut off for switching between RT and SSR - none, high, medium, low
Comparing XSX versus PSV port of a game in a console war is going to get really complicated!
Im just happy that we wont see anymore flat ground textures and pop ins.
Nect gen cant come soon enough
Yeah a 60fps mode would be great for Demon's Souls and R&C.
Games like that need a mode were it is 60fps since they are gameplay first games rather then narrative.
(In terms of non cutscenes moments and fast movement)
Please don't spread misinformation. Atleast put "I think" if you're not sure what you're talking about. Current raytracing hardware only speeds up the BVH traversal and intersection which is only a small part of the raytracing process. Most is still done by the same hardware that does rasterization meaning it takes a ton of shading resources away from the rest. In other words: using raytracing means sacrificing other stuff.
Why else do you think the performance hit for raytracing is so big? If it was really done in parallel there would be not performance hit. The immense shading cost of raytracing for just one effect is why I think you can push a better looking game out if you don't use it. Alas it's the current hype so I guess we'll waste a ton of performance on it, similar to how we'll waste it on native 4k instead of using more efficient, but slightly worse looking, methods.
yeah they could bump a lot more in replay, but in game probally they only go as far as global illumination, shadows and reflections.
full ray tracing based on road to ps5 seems hella intensive.
We haven't even started this generation, and devs are already finding ways to improve the RT cost to performance.
How impressive are Sony's FP studios?
How impressive are Sony's FP studios?
What we are seeing from PS5 trailers, is a full-on ray tracing solution is out of reach for another generation of consoles. The best they can do is to sprinkle some rt effects here and there. We actually know that for a quite long time, and xbox is no exception. Which puts PC RT in a peculiar position. The rt capability of RTX cards ( 2080 and up) will be far superior than console's, yet who's gonna develop a full-on ray tracing engine?