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III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,827
I don't even know what I've been down about in this thread.
Look at his post history. He is a major griefer and Not worth your time. And thanks for the input by the way. MS has really set themselves apart from Sony in services, as well as hardware, for now at least. We will no doubt be impressed by Sony HW this gen like every gen, but for now, it's clear to celebrate the approach we have seen from MS. Bravo!
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,847
One thing this article reminded me about is how cautious and worried the console manufacturers were about gaming moving to mobile.

There was genuine fear that new consoles wouldn't sell and it seemed like they were hesitant to invest too much.

This time around it seems both Sony and Microsoft are going all in, just like the 360 vs PS3. And I think we all benefit in such a scenario.
 

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,827
One thing this article reminded me about is how cautious and worried the console manufacturers were about gaming moving to mobile.

There was genuine fear that new consoles wouldn't sell and it seemed like they were hesitant to invest too much.

This time around it seems both Sony and Microsoft are going all in, just like the 360 vs PS3. And I think we all benefit in such a scenario.
I am prepared for greatest gen ever, but 360/PS3 really did not even hold a candle to this gen, conservative design and all...
 

Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,438
Sounds like this thing is going to be a beast. Everything from the design/size to every discussion we get out of it is harping on its power.

Some serious smoke here. Bound to be fire.
 

AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
Assuming it's an accurate image, the 7nm chip we saw back at E3 is roughly the same physical size as the 16nm chip seen in the X - likely a touch larger. Transistor density is unlikely to have doubled, meaning that the primary route forward for increased performance is frequency - and lots of it.

i have a pretty big issue with this post. why is it unlikely?

the 36 cu polaris was 5.7 billion transistors at 14nm and 232mm2. the 5700xt is 10.4 billion transistors at 251 mm2. it looks like it doubled to me.

The scorpio apu was said to be 7 billion transistors at 16nm. that includes the jaguar cores. we know the zen 2 is 2 billion, but almost half of that is taken up by the cache which the console makers would cut down as shown by the flute leak. lets assume MS only cuts down the cache by half. we have a 1.5 billion transistor cpu.

we dont know the CU count of the scarlett, but even if we go by oberon 2.0 ghz clocks, we are looking at a 48 CU GPU with 4-6 disabled CUs. so 54 minimum. how is that not over or around 14 billion transistors? or 2x scorpio?

i saw phil complain about moore's law slowing down as well. and yet in just two years since scorpio's launch, he was able to release a 12 tflops gpu based on a completely different architecture while doubling the transistors which i believe is what moore's law is all about.

whats even more crazy is that DF themselves point out how the chip is as big as the scorpio which was 358 mm2. the 40 cu 5700xt is 251mm2. the zen 2 is 70mm2 and should be around 50 with half cache. that leaves 60mm2 for memory controllers and a whole shit load of CUs. yes, the clocks will be higher but you always get clockspeed increases when you go down nodes. thats on top of transistor density.
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
I could have sworn all the console makers promised to cut resting power consumption in their new consoles to help the environment. Or am I misremembering?
 

thecaseace

Member
May 1, 2018
3,219
I remember after the reveal of the Series X there were two frequent questions:

Can I pay this console on its side?

How will that fit in my TV cabinet?

Now I'm hearing about the output of this machine and thinking, for the love of God do not put this in a TV cabinet or on its side. I imagine this box to be capable of heating a small room when it's on.

Seems like recent tweets have seen Phil somewhat corroborate the work of Digital Foundry here.

(Sidenote on naming: I guarantee publications will only use XBSX or 'Series X' as shorthand for that box, any other suggestions are ridiculous).
 
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Segafreak

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,756
How do you know? God of War spent its entire existence being the Michael Bay of shallow action nonsense, then had one good game. Hellblade came out and became the flagship of popularising the battle against mental illness.

If you think Sony need do nothing you are advocating that they take a "Ridge Racer/Giant Enemy Crab" approach. That doomed them.
MS has their plans and Sony has theirs, from what I've seen so far there is no reason to panic and speed up the reveal plans for PS5. MS has only shown 1 trailer for a new game that is allegedly not in-game, hasn't said much about price nor specs. It was a very weak reveal because it was so hollow other than that and it happened during the TGAs making it feel like a side dish.

Now imagine the PS Meeting next year: a show dedicated entirely to the PS5, marketed weeks in advance building up hype and momentum with memes and gifs in the meantime, lots of talk about specs, functionalities, UI, new controller, availability, GAMES, demos of the SSD speed, possibly price and design reveal. This is what happened in 2013. A show like that instantly puts it out there and I imagine was always their plan for next gen, how is that gonna "Ridge Racer" their approach?
 

plow

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,650
There is a big gap between your magic number and 600. I think it will be 600 but there is no chance it will be below 500. There is actually a proven correlation in business theory that people view products better with a higher price depending on what they are being compared to. Sony definitely won't exceed 500 with similar specs but ms trying to assert their position as the best performing console will at minimum be 50 usd higher than whatever Sony chooses.

History has shown, that pricing consoles at 600$ will mean their death. Even 499$ couldn't change much ( The 20GB PS3 was 499 ). The One X didn't move much at 499$ and so did the Original XONE with Kinect at 499$.

399$ is somehow an attractive price range.
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
History has shown, that pricing consoles at 600$ will mean their death. Even 499$ couldn't change much ( The 20GB PS3 was 499 ). The One X didn't move much at 499$ and so did the Original XONE with Kinect at 499$.

399$ is somehow an attractive price range.

$499 will work. If that's the only option and both consoles fall in that tier.

People once thought $700 was crazy pricing for a new flagship phone.
 

Voodoopeople

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,859
MS has their plans and Sony has theirs, from what I've seen so far there is no reason to panic and speed up the reveal plans for PS5. MS has only shown 1 trailer for a new game that is allegedly not in-game, hasn't said much about price nor specs. It was a very weak reveal because it was so hollow other than that and it happened during the TGAs making it feel like a side dish.

Now imagine the PS Meeting next year: a show dedicated entirely to the PS5, marketed weeks in advance building up hype and momentum with memes and gifs in the meantime, lots of talk about specs, functionalities, UI, new controller, availability, GAMES, demos of the SSD speed, possibly price and design reveal. This is what happened in 2013. A show like that instantly puts it out there and I imagine was always their plan for next gen, how is that gonna "Ridge Racer" their approach?

The thing is. Nobody is talking about PS5 as of now. Well, they are. But only is the context of it likely to be weaker than XSX. I totally get that things will change once they have their blow-out, but if you think the XSX reveal was weak, in terms of market perception, you are totally wrong.

The Game Awards was THE XSX REVEAL awards. Nobody is talking about anything else that happened on the day other than the reveal. Most mainstream gamers don't even know who won. The only reference to PS5 coming from that event was how Godfall, the only PS5 game there, looked terrible compared to Hellblade 2. This isn't my opinion, this is "the narrative".

The worry is that with all the changes up top at Playstation and the corporate in-fighting that led to the culling of Shawn Layden (it was not a peaceful transition), those changes happened at a time when any platform holder is most vulnerable, the generation shift. Any changing of strategic direction or in-fighting can lead to a muddled strategy, which can translate into a box and software that has been pulled in too many directions. This happened to MS last time.

Sony, as a company, have been responding to the market in recent times, whereas at the start of the generation they led it. MS went through this up until about 2017 when the strategy seemed to have been agreed internally and they set course. Everything MS has done since then has been in pursuit of that strategy. The amazing software released by Sony in 2018 started development right at the start of the generation, when they were at their strongest. Their pipeline then began to slow.

Hopefully Sony will indeed have a barn-storming reveal. I certainly hope they do. I'd be very disappointing if they fall into the trap previously occupied by MS though, by just churning out sequels e.g. God of War 2, Spiderman 2, Horizon 2. That'd be Gears, Halo, Forza all over again, only less diverse.
 

plow

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,650
$499 will work. If that's the only option and both consoles fall in that tier.

People once thought $700 was crazy pricing for a new flagship phone.

The Jump came with the Iphone. Which in comparison to the competitors had so much more functionality, that you could see why people wanted to spend 1000$.

You can't do that with consoles. They play games.
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
The Jump came with the Iphone. Which in comparison to the competitors had so much more functionality, that you could see why people wanted to spend 1000$.

You can't do that with consoles. They play games.

Next gen consoles are a step change over the status quo. Pretty much the perfect time to hike prices.

Historically, this move fails when one party goes pricey and the other goes cheap.

Nobody will bat an eyelid if BOTH next gen consoles are priced at $499. Backlash will come if one is $100 more than the other.
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,218
im about to get into the article, and this is a console that I fully intend to buy, but I'm kind of uneasy about people apparently seeing any mention of the environmental impact of this hobby as disingenuous by default.

like... we all know that this is actually a thing that is a problem, right?

humanity cant go on at the same rate of environmental exploitation forever, that's just a fact.

I have hope that we can learn to progress technology while also finding more sustainable and ethical ways to manufacture it. but i do also think that eventually we're going to have to cut back on some aspects of tech.

anyways, that is off topic for sure, and i understand why people wouldn't want the thread to be derailed by that conversation.

I also agree it's very likely that the person in question was trolling. however I don't want to pretend it wasn't something I think about all the time in the back of my head when considering new tech.
 

upinsmoke

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,566
The thing is. Nobody is talking about PS5 as of now. Well, they are. But only is the context of it likely to be weaker than XSX. I totally get that things will change once they have their blow-out, but if you think the XSX reveal was weak, in terms of market perception, you are totally wrong.

The Game Awards was THE XSX REVEAL awards. Nobody is talking about anything else that happened on the day other than the reveal. Most mainstream gamers don't even know who won. The only reference to PS5 coming from that event was how Godfall, the only PS5 game there, looked terrible compared to Hellblade 2. This isn't my opinion, this is "the narrative".

The worry is that with all the changes up top at Playstation and the corporate in-fighting that led to the culling of Shawn Layden (it was not a peaceful transition), those changes happened at a time when any platform holder is most vulnerable, the generation shift. Any changing of strategic direction or in-fighting can lead to a muddled strategy, which can translate into a box and software that has been pulled in too many directions. This happened to MS last time.

Sony, as a company, have been responding to the market in recent times, whereas at the start of the generation they led it. MS went through this up until about 2017 when the strategy seemed to have been agreed internally and they set course. Everything MS has done since then has been in pursuit of that strategy. The amazing software released by Sony in 2018 started development right at the start of the generation, when they were at their strongest. Their pipeline then began to slow.

Hopefully Sony will indeed have a barn-storming reveal. I certainly hope they do. I'd be very disappointing if they fall into the trap previously occupied by MS though, by just churning out sequels e.g. God of War 2, Spiderman 2, Horizon 2. That'd be Gears, Halo, Forza all over again, only less diverse.
Oh my god mate. What a load of fucking hot air. You'll say anything to fit the imaginary narrative in your head. Why are you even arsed. Your living in a bubble.
 

Voodoopeople

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,859
User warned: Antagonistic language towards other members
Oh my god mate. What a load of fucking hot air. You'll say anything to fit the imaginary narrative in your head. Why are you even arsed. Your living in a bubble.

Watch your language, boy.

I genuinely want both consoles to melt eyes next year. But the silence from Sony is deafening. It reminds me of the silence from Xbox 1st party when they used the excuse of not wanting to announce games too early.

Look out beyond this forum. Look at Reddit, YouTube, Twitter etc. The content is about MS. Hopefully Sony can step up with a good reveal. They are market leader but they also were when they revealed the PS3 and that did not go well. Like, at all. Keep the message simple. Make the box strong. Come out with a better launch line-up than PS4. 1st party on PS Now day 1. Then they'll be fine.
 

Deleted member 4783

Oct 25, 2017
4,531
The Jump came with the Iphone. Which in comparison to the competitors had so much more functionality, that you could see why people wanted to spend 1000$.

You can't do that with consoles. They play games.
What? The first iPhone that costed 1000$ didn't have ",much more functionality" than the competition. That's straight up fanboy mentality.
 

plow

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,650
What? The first iPhone that costed 1000$ didn't have ",much more functionality" than the competition. That's straight up fanboy mentality.

Multi-Touch alone revolutionised the whole industry, what are you on about? Denying that smells like fanboy. The iphone changed the whole phone industry.
 

Omeganex9999

Member
Oct 25, 2017
765
London
The thing is. Nobody is talking about PS5 as of now. Well, they are. But only is the context of it likely to be weaker than XSX. I totally get that things will change once they have their blow-out, but if you think the XSX reveal was weak, in terms of market perception, you are totally wrong.

Everyone here is. You literally are. Everybody is wondering if it will be as powerful as the XSX, or how less powerful it will be. Fanboys on either side are playing the "my pad is bigger than yours" game.

Sony doesn't need to prove anything at the moment. They've been in control of the next-gen talk since early this year. The fact that people have talked for a few days of a console that is supposed to come out next year is not hurting Sony. On the contrary, people will be dying to know more about PS5.

The XSX reveal at the VGA was done to get some attention back since for months we've heard how similar the new Xbox was to PS5. Same CPU family, same GPU family, ray tracing, faster storage.

Multi-Touch alone revolutionised the whole industry, what are you on about? Denying that smells like fanboy. The iphone changed the whole phone industry.

And it was 499$ lol
 

JahIthBer

Member
Jan 27, 2018
10,383
One thing this article reminded me about is how cautious and worried the console manufacturers were about gaming moving to mobile.

There was genuine fear that new consoles wouldn't sell and it seemed like they were hesitant to invest too much.

This time around it seems both Sony and Microsoft are going all in, just like the 360 vs PS3. And I think we all benefit in such a scenario.
Im not too sure Mobile was the issue with Gen 8, i think Sony just wanted a $400 Console & Microsoft wanted to focus on Kinect & multi-media, this gen is back to normal with using more high end parts, Consoles were never meant to use low/mid range parts at launch, except for Nintendo i suppose.
 

EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,686
Multi-Touch alone revolutionised the whole industry, what are you on about? Denying that smells like fanboy. The iphone changed the whole phone industry.

Multi touch and an OS designed for mobile multi touch screen rather than being designed for a keypad or running windows CE.

Crazy to think it had no MMS or App Store at launch
 

Fastidioso

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
3,101
Watch your language, boy.

I genuinely want both consoles to melt eyes next year. But the silence from Sony is deafening. It reminds me of the silence from Xbox 1st party when they used the excuse of not wanting to announce games too early.

Look out beyond this forum. Look at Reddit, YouTube, Twitter etc. The content is about MS. Hopefully Sony can step up with a good reveal. They are market leader but they also were when they revealed the PS3 and that did not go well. Like, at all. Keep the message simple. Make the box strong. Come out with a better launch line-up than PS4. 1st party on PS Now day 1. Then they'll be fine.
The anomaly is the early MS reveal without provide detailed specs, not the silence of Sony. For me seems the classic "desperate" way to try to catch the attention at all costs, typical of the Spencer lead, because they are scared when ps5 will be finally revealed, the attention around the X series could be "minor"; but in my opinion it shows more insecurity than smartness.
Sony won't reveal a new hardware until the release is close, we know it from awhile.
But in my opinion such move shows more as much MS is in a weaker position not the contrary, if I can say.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
1,317
United States
Im not too sure Mobile was the issue with Gen 8, i think Sony just wanted a $400 Console & Microsoft wanted to focus on Kinect & multi-media, this gen is back to normal with using more high end parts, Consoles were never meant to use low/mid range parts at launch, except for Nintendo i suppose.

I think it also came down to Microsoft and Sony wanting to recoup their losses from the seventh generation and not face another rocky launch. Microsoft poured over 1.5 billion dollars into rectifying the situation around the RRoD. Sony initially sold the PS3 at a loss of at least $200. Also, don't forget that the PS3 was subject to delayed launches due to hardware shortages. The PS4 and Xbox One house mostly standard parts, which I can bet immensely helped to keep the consoles readily available every year since 2013.
 

Voodoopeople

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,859
The anomaly is the early MS reveal without provide detailed specs, not the silence of Sony. For me seems the classic "desperate" way to try to catch the attention at all costs, typical of the Spencer lead, because they are scared when ps5 will be finally revealed, the attention around the X series could be "minor"; but in my opinion it shows more insecurity than smartness.
Sony won't reveal a new hardware until the release is close, we know it from awhile.
But in my opinion such move shows more as much MS is in a weaker position not the contrary, if I can say.

That's not unreasonable. I disagree but see where you're coming from. I personally think MS have come out early because PS4 hogged the limelight last time by announcing first. Also MS are confident in their box and think Sony haven't time to counter before holiday 2020 as specs will be locked in by now.

But 2020 is going to be amazing either way. If Sony do an All Access equivalent I'm double dipping day one anyway.
 

Iron Eddie

Banned
Nov 25, 2019
9,812
Yeah, Sony had to learn the hard way with the PS3. 400$ is the magic Number..

If they can hit that mark great but I think there is only a 5% chance that's going to happen. $499 will be the price if we expect a significant jump. I wasn't very impressed with the current gen. Now with better drives to cut down load times significantly and finally decent CPU's there really is no expectation, at least from me, that it will cost $399.
 

Deleted member 18951

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,531
The anomaly is the early MS reveal without provide detailed specs, not the silence of Sony. For me seems the classic "desperate" way to try to catch the attention at all costs, typical of the Spencer lead, because they are scared when ps5 will be finally revealed, the attention around the X series could be "minor"; but in my opinion it shows more insecurity than smartness.
Sony won't reveal a new hardware until the release is close, we know it from awhile.
But in my opinion such move shows more as much MS is in a weaker position not the contrary, if I can say.

Desperate. Scared. Typical of Spencer. Insecurity. MS is in a weaker position.

BINGO!
 

JohnDusk

Member
Oct 24, 2018
160
Panos Panay has to be considered the best hardware designer in the world.
Slightly off-topic: The team sure is creating really interesting stuff. No complaints in the console space whatsoever. Then you look at how weak the hardware inside the Surface Studio is and you remember that even the best designers do stupid stuff from time to time, sometimes due to corporate pressure, sometimes who knows why... All in all, totally pumped about the Series X (and looking forward to the next Surface Studio)!
 

Hermii

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,685
Is it a possibility that MS is holding off on announcing ram amount so they can match Sony if they pull a "8b" again?

That they have multiple possible configurations so that they can easily respond to Sony?
 

HStallion

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
62,262
Watch your language, boy.

I genuinely want both consoles to melt eyes next year. But the silence from Sony is deafening. It reminds me of the silence from Xbox 1st party when they used the excuse of not wanting to announce games too early.

Look out beyond this forum. Look at Reddit, YouTube, Twitter etc. The content is about MS. Hopefully Sony can step up with a good reveal. They are market leader but they also were when they revealed the PS3 and that did not go well. Like, at all. Keep the message simple. Make the box strong. Come out with a better launch line-up than PS4. 1st party on PS Now day 1. Then they'll be fine.

And before the XSX reveal everyone was talking about the PS5 because of the various articles Sony had released while MS was quiet as could be. I feel like some of you have the attention spans of goldfish.
 
Dec 31, 2017
1,430
The anomaly is the early MS reveal without provide detailed specs, not the silence of Sony. For me seems the classic "desperate" way to try to catch the attention at all costs, typical of the Spencer lead, because they are scared when ps5 will be finally revealed, the attention around the X series could be "minor"; but in my opinion it shows more insecurity than smartness.
Sony won't reveal a new hardware until the release is close, we know it from awhile.
But in my opinion such move shows more as much MS is in a weaker position not the contrary, if I can say.
It's probably too early to talk specs (and TGA isn't the pace to do that either) and just releasing a spec sheet on their website isn't as good as having a full reveal and talking about it.

TGA and its 45 million views (I think it was anyway) is probably one of the biggest platforms to draw attention to yourself besides E3, and probably gets more views than even a console reveal (like PlayStation brief in February). It wasn't out of desperation, but to get the next gen hype train going. CHristmas shopping is over, so no harm done there, they know next year will be slow for Xbox One (this could be a way to get people on board All Access and upgrade down the line) and I think that they are very confident in their hardware, so they have decided to just go ahead of Sony and reveal even more ahead of time. I also think we will learn more at CES from AMD's conference.

The more people talk about them, the better it is. It's better to spread it out like that than have 1 event and then have people forget about it, and that's what they are doing and it keeps us interested in wanting to know more and keeps people talking about it.
 
Dec 31, 2017
1,430
And before the XSX reveal everyone was talking about the PS5 because of the various articles Sony had released while MS was quiet as could be. I feel like some of you have the attention spans of goldfish.
Nobody was talking about those articles. People want something impressive, not a few words in a magazine that isn't really all that relevant to gaming anyway. We want a show, fanfare, and all that. The PS5 talks from the wired article didn't last long. Something tangible like the TGA trailer does create more word of mouth.
 

Yerffej

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,567
Is it a possibility that MS is holding off on announcing ram amount so they can match Sony if they pull a "8b" again?

That they have multiple possible configurations so that they can easily respond to Sony?
I'd say they are holding off on as much as they can overall to still pump some excitement into whatever is left to reveal closer to E3.
 

HStallion

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
62,262
Nobody was talking about those articles. People want something impressive, not a few words in a magazine that isn't really all that relevant to gaming anyway. We want a show, fanfare, and all that. The PS5 talks from the wired article didn't last long. Something tangible like the TGA trailer does create more word of mouth.

Nobody was talking about those articles? Gimme a break. They were the only info of concrete detail anyone had so they were heavily discussed because there was nothing else to talk about. They were heavily discussed on this site and elsewhere. I'm not gonna say they had the same impact as the XSX reveal but to act like no one was talking about them or the PS5 for a long time because MS was relatively quiet is a fools notion.
 

Sulik2

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,168
It would be faster. But not that much. 12Tflops is 20% more performances than 10Tflops on the same architecture. And even that doesn't scale that much. 10 to 20% isn't going to be much of a change in a game. It's more of a comfort zone. People are debating between 10 to 12Tflops as if it would change things in a meaningful way.

That will be the difference between stable 60fps and variable fps in many games. That is something many people will care about.
 

Deleted member 4783

Oct 25, 2017
4,531
Multi-Touch alone revolutionised the whole industry, what are you on about? Denying that smells like fanboy. The iphone changed the whole phone industry.
The first iPhone didn't cost 1000usd, and that's what we were talking about.
 

Yataran

Member
Jul 17, 2018
439
Copenhagen, DK
I know this not exactly on topic... But what is it known about the "weaker" console in the new XBox generation? Because, honestly, I'm quite interested in that option.

Of course this is an enthusiast forum and people will be all hyped and what not with the prospects of a very powerful system, and Microsoft is definitely going to use that power as a marketing tool to start creating buzz early on... But a cheaper option that would, supposedly, play most of the games of the current generation and a large amount of games from past generations (I expect that at a similar level as the XBox One X, at the least), while allowing to have a decent shot at next generation games (Most likely at lower resolutions than 4K, but I'm convinced that the system will be 4K capable and perhaps fairly decent at it depending on the game requirements) sounds very attractive.

The reactions that I've seen so far don't seem too positive, especially if you look at it from the perspective of having such a powerful option available, but in general I expect it to be more capable as the XBox One X. Perhaps it will be at a similar level GPU wise, or even a bit better, but I would be surprised if it isn't significantly better in other aspects (e.g. Architecture, CPU, memory, storage).
 

Voodoopeople

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,859
And before the XSX reveal everyone was talking about the PS5 because of the various articles Sony had released while MS was quiet as could be. I feel like some of you have the attention spans of goldfish.

That's the nature of claiming the narrative though. It's called one up-manship for a reason. From a PR perspective a company is only as good as it's last wave of PR. Silence = letting the competition take the limelight. But you are right, the pendulum will swing back as soon as Sony go. But they have to go and soon. At this rate, April/May 2020 will be damaging. I actually think Apri/may 2020 would be too late for both companies, let alone one that goes 2nd. February 2020 at the latest.
 

Nostremitus

Member
Nov 15, 2017
7,777
Alabama
i have a pretty big issue with this post. why is it unlikely?

the 36 cu polaris was 5.7 billion transistors at 14nm and 232mm2. the 5700xt is 10.4 billion transistors at 251 mm2. it looks like it doubled to me.

The scorpio apu was said to be 7 billion transistors at 16nm. that includes the jaguar cores. we know the zen 2 is 2 billion, but almost half of that is taken up by the cache which the console makers would cut down as shown by the flute leak. lets assume MS only cuts down the cache by half. we have a 1.5 billion transistor cpu.

we dont know the CU count of the scarlett, but even if we go by oberon 2.0 ghz clocks, we are looking at a 48 CU GPU with 4-6 disabled CUs. so 54 minimum. how is that not over or around 14 billion transistors? or 2x scorpio?

i saw phil complain about moore's law slowing down as well. and yet in just two years since scorpio's launch, he was able to release a 12 tflops gpu based on a completely different architecture while doubling the transistors which i believe is what moore's law is all about.

whats even more crazy is that DF themselves point out how the chip is as big as the scorpio which was 358 mm2. the 40 cu 5700xt is 251mm2. the zen 2 is 70mm2 and should be around 50 with half cache. that leaves 60mm2 for memory controllers and a whole shit load of CUs. yes, the clocks will be higher but you always get clockspeed increases when you go down nodes. thats on top of transistor density.
That's assuming the extra size isn't due to whatever their hardware Ray Tracing solution turns out to be. But then with Ray Tracing as a standard feature, that opens up processing power that would otherwise be used for lighting, shadows, reflections, etc as the (first party at least) games will be built from ground up with Ray Tracing as the default as opposed to being shoehorned in after the fact.
 
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gremlinz1982

Member
Aug 11, 2018
5,331
The anomaly is the early MS reveal without provide detailed specs, not the silence of Sony. For me seems the classic "desperate" way to try to catch the attention at all costs, typical of the Spencer lead, because they are scared when ps5 will be finally revealed, the attention around the X series could be "minor"; but in my opinion it shows more insecurity than smartness.
Sony won't reveal a new hardware until the release is close, we know it from awhile.
But in my opinion such move shows more as much MS is in a weaker position not the contrary, if I can say.
Was Sony also desperate talking to WIRED twice without giving detailed specs? On doing a reveal just before E3 when they knew they would not attend?

Each of these companies has their strategy, and their own timeline for how they want to go around their next generation console.