Well, I guarantee there will be plenty of games that will take advantage of all those flops.
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DF: Halo Infinite Gameplay Reveal Analysis: Are The Graphics Really Flat?
- Thread starter FLX-II
- Start date
A fun game that looks good is better than a fun game that does not
I'm not sure, I don't know the reputation of the channel, but it's name is "KingThrash Gaming". It's at 15:40, he's just going through things he noticed, comparing it with other halo games like the plasma grenade explosions not leaving burnt marks, being a weaker looking explosion, and no fear from enemies when they get one stickied to them (showing the fear of the enemies, small and great when a plasma grenade is attached to them in past Halo games).
The aircraft waiting to move is very obviously for the demo, to give something interesting going on at a good time. It just shocked me that I didn't notice it.
He also mentions that so much of the demo is in direct light, just like I mentioned before in this thread. There's a lot of direct light, and also he keeps going up and up so he can't help but find direct light areas.
If it's the "DF Lied" video, he does point out some stuff Alex missed (the ship at the beginning clipping through the trees, MC's gun at the beginning reflecting in the water from 50ft away), but accusing them of shilling is way out of pocket.
He's been called out last time the video was posted for an extreme Sony bias, so I wouldn't post it.
Plus the DF accusation is just wrong.
I think the game looks fun and I don't dislike the visuals, but I would love to hear a clear explanation about what exactly happened between the Slipspace engine teaser and now. Where did that footage actually come from? Where did the assets go? Can something like that exist later down the line?
Yeah I didn't like that, among other things. Didn't know he had a Sony bias. He seemed like a fan of Halo with his references to old Halos with video, but he can be both a experienced Halo player and have a Sony bias.
Watching now, yeah, he's bringing up some great stuff, but from a poisoned well. Interesting, bit yeah, probably not great to post it. As it stands, it definitely has more issues then just lighting, but I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't bring some things up because they were sure that they'd be fixed before launch.
if that was the case, I find it weird that we haven't seen much of it aside from Metro Exodus and ControlAccording to Cerny (I take it we all trust his words on this forum), RT GI should be the cheapest graphics related RT you can do. Makes sense since you can fake great looking GI on current gen consoles already.
People really need to keep this in mind, and to be honest if you read the sensible comments, most are saying that the gameplay and art direction is fantastic, just underwhelming fidelity.
RT GI probably harder to incorporate into an existing engine than reflections and shadows.
especially if you want compatibility with none GI lighting. I guess a lot of the games shown started development prior to getting final, RT-accelerated hardware
I got a reply from Tiago Sousa to a question about RTX in Wolfenstein Youngblood - basically I wondered if the idTech 7 Doom Eternal RTX patch might be similar. He said that the RTX patch for Wolfenstein was mostly between Machinegames and Nvidia, and I got the impression that Nvidia engineers were heavily involved there getting it up and running.
Just an idle thought, but I wonder if the reason reflections have been fairly common is because they have some good techniques for it they're sharing with some developers and helping them impleemnt. For all I know, Metro Exodus had Nvidia helping tons with GI too, though.
When I saw the demo on the stream and the gameplay started, my first thought was "wow this look good." As the demo progressed I noticed the pop in and a few other technical issues, but I still overall thought it looked great, especially as I noticed the sun was going down.
I'm fairly confident by launch they'll have solved most of the lighting and texture issues. I don't think the game will look photo-realistic, but I do think it will look good. The more important thing to me was I noticed the physics and ai looked more responsive, which is pretty exciting.
I'm fairly confident by launch they'll have solved most of the lighting and texture issues. I don't think the game will look photo-realistic, but I do think it will look good. The more important thing to me was I noticed the physics and ai looked more responsive, which is pretty exciting.
You can tell the demo was pretty scripted and rehearsed, like the 2nd Phantom waiting to move until Chief looked at it, the Brute Captain throwing a grenade to show off the Drop Wall, the Brute throwing the second grunt where he threw the first, the Shade firing at the same spot despite being damaged from the right, and the player even missed throwing a grenade at the big fusion coil under the AA Gun where you can see the grenade go through the little gap in the fusion coil, so he has to go in the Shade.
Microsoft first part games don't universally target 4k output, and Halo Infinite is going to be using Variable Rate Shading and (as necessary) Dynamic Resolution Scaling so it's not like it's a totally unmitigated 4k image. Gears 5 came out less than 12 months ago and made good use of reconstruction techniques to produce a clean image.
343i just doesn't seem like their premiere tech studio and that's fine. The Coalition, Ninja Theory, Turn 10 and Playground all produced fatastic looking games on Xbox One, certainly a lot nicer looking than Halo 5.
Didn't we already have screenshots from this demo where it's in use? I could have sworn I've seen them.
if you're talking about that 3x3 image, Dictator commented that it wasn't VRS as no hardware does 3x3 reduction, not even on PC
I have watched the 2018 trailer 5+ times over the last few days at 4K/60.
Just look at the asset quality (good example pause at the trailer's :30 scene transition, look at the pebbles and rock formation to the right). The draw distance and LODs extending to the far off mountains.
A refresher for those who have forgotten:
The explanation you seek is right at the beginning. It has "Game Engine Demonstration" plastered at the bottom. As DF's Richard Leadbetter said back then, in his 2018 trailer analysis video (3:45 timestamp), "first red flag for me here."
In fact, DF's 2018 video deserves a repost. because I just watched it and Jesus watching/listening to Richard break down the amount of tech shown is sobering versus what we saw a few days ago:
None of that shit was present in 2020, right?
The only logical explanation (that I have) is that the trailer was built on a PC targeting XSX specs, with absolutely no thought given to the current-gen consoles. They just went all out in showcasing what the engine can produce, because *drumroll*... they weren't considering the current-generation's limitations. I could be wrong.
So will next-generation exclusive Slipspace content look that good? It should I guess?
I forgot all about that engine showcase above. The visual differences are huge!
In the end it seems XB1 is to blame rather than the team at 343i. I'd love to see another Halo Infinite gameplay presentation at the next Xbox event which showcases the game running on Series X with RT enabled although I think RT GI might be out if the question (especially at native 4k/60fps) but you never know if they were to go for dynamic 4k instead and balanced the assets smartly. GI RT is the dream for me to be in the next gen open World games. It looks so great in Metro and baked in AC Unity.
In the end it seems XB1 is to blame rather than the team at 343i. I'd love to see another Halo Infinite gameplay presentation at the next Xbox event which showcases the game running on Series X with RT enabled although I think RT GI might be out if the question (especially at native 4k/60fps) but you never know if they were to go for dynamic 4k instead and balanced the assets smartly. GI RT is the dream for me to be in the next gen open World games. It looks so great in Metro and baked in AC Unity.
Here's my issue with the idea that it's going to look better on XBSX.
Halo Infinite Demo Was a Work-in-Progress Build, But Running on a PC as Powerful as Series X - IGN
Xbox Marketing GM Aaron Greenberg notes that Halo Infinite's campaign gameplay premiere displayed a "work-in-progress" build of the game.
If they really intend to continue with the idea of Halo Infinite being a ''platform'', eventually they will have to abandon XBOX One, is there no possibility of having a graphic bump when that happens? A kind of re-release?
No GaaS has lasted forever. Halo Infinite will get a sequel eventually, no matter what they're saying now, and that's when it'll drop Xbox one.
I'd be fairly surprised if they built the bulk of the game in the last 18 months. They announced it as an XBO game in 2018, and I would have to imagine they were doing work on XBO prior. The 2018 showcase might not have been built on XBO, but I don't know if it was built as a next gen game either - it strikes me as more like a pure engine graphics flex and not a game in any meaningful sense. They might have hoped to achieve that fidelity and simply failed - not that they never planned it to be XBO then later got cut back for it.
you have no idea how hyped I was to play a Halo game that looked like that. I will probably never forgive 343 for such a burn.
Imo the cinematics in the demo looked pretty much on par with the E3 2019 showing (especially every shot in the Pelican), so the engine itself looks seems to be the same to be as capable as before.
Best case scenario is they get the gameplay visuals as close to the cinematics as possible. If they can achieve that I will be very impressed as I think the cinematics look 'proper' next-gen running at 60fps.
Buuuuut, generally cinematics look significantly better than gameplay so I'm not sure just how close they could bridge the gap.
Best case scenario is they get the gameplay visuals as close to the cinematics as possible. If they can achieve that I will be very impressed as I think the cinematics look 'proper' next-gen running at 60fps.
Buuuuut, generally cinematics look significantly better than gameplay so I'm not sure just how close they could bridge the gap.
I watched a bit of his video-- I'd say its 50% nonsense, and 50% kinda good points. But ultimately it's also a reflection of "perception is reality". The average gamer isn't going to care that the game being dynamic time of day is causing all of these technical issues with lighting. They just want it to look better than the previous generation of games. I can''t understand how 343/MS made the decision to ship this game without Raytracing. If they needed to bring on a team of 20 software engineers from another one of their first party studios just to ship Raytracing in Halo, they should''ve done it.
That's.. supposed to have been what I said in the end lol. I edited my post so many times that I think something got lost in translation. But yeah totally agree.
Like Richard essentially says in his video, demonstrating the engine doesn't guarantee they'll be able to pull it off when it comes time for the actual real-time rendering.
Well CD Project Red is planning something like that for Cyberpunk 2077. A "next-gen overhaul" isn't out of the question.
I guess it's kind of a semantic minefield in what we're talking about, so I apologize for misconstruing, lol.
I've said it before, but if it turns out that this game is 60fps on XBO, then that's a big mistake retroactively they could have avoided - the GPU gulf between the generations is not so vast that they couldn't have found framerate and resolution values that would have allowed the game to be very playable on XBO but look really good on XSX. Like yeah it would be a little disappointing for some if the base XBO version was running at 720p-900p dynamic @ 30fps in the campaign (60fps in MP), but it would at least allow them to flex a lot more all the way through the rendering and have more complex CPU stuff going on (That would then run more than fine @ 60fps on the next gen).
If on the other hand it's actually 30fps on XBO (we have no knowledge about framerate and res yet for the current gen version), then it would indicate that the technology they have isn't that impressive from a fidelity perspective when forced into real world constraints. Which doesn't say anything about "the nature of crossgen" implicitly, because Gears 5 looks stunning on X1X @ 60fps @ rather high resolutions with a semi-open world and will look even more stunning on XSX. Some games just look much better than others, after all. Like Modern Warfare 2019 looks stunning and if you'd shown that exact game to people who had no idea it was current gen and said "this is a next gen only game" a lot of people would have believed you no questions asked. Same with TLOU2.
I definitely disagree with the notion some people have that any one game is an open and shut case for "crossgen means games can't take advantage of next gen power".
I think it'll actually drop Xbox One sooner. Sort of like how Destiny 1 dropped last gen with Rise of Iron
I hope Alex doesn't take these bizarre criticisms to heart. The video had a clear focus on Infinite's lighting issues and any other problems (while obviously needing addressed by 343) simply weren't the focus of the video, nor were the focus of most of people's complaints. He did a great job pointing out particularly why the game looks underwhelming and put a lot of the issues into far better words than I or many other people could.
Funny enough, I don't think these issues actually exist. It's pretty clear (at least to me) watching the gameplay at 1440 or higher that the Phantom doesn't clip through the tree, it's simply an illusion due to the similar dark coloring of the tree and Phantom under the lighting and the tree blocking light and glare from passing light sources from the Phantom. The "gun reflection" is actually one of those alien gopher things popping up close to the water source. You can barely see one of it's white stripes as the camera moves left.
I can't imagine the native support for current-gen systems lasting more than a year, if that. I expect any expansions or updates planned to be released after xCloud is transferred to Series X hardware will be designed for Series X alone, with Xbox One models being able to use xCloud to play these new expansions.
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Fucking A. Sucks to rewatch that after the latest footage.
Because I fully think the Series X is capable of this quality and more, but it looks like the hacked the engine to pieces to work on base hardware.
Yup...
The saddest part is that the Series X should def be able to have the 2018 trailer graphics but it doesn't.
The saddest part is that the Series X should def be able to have the 2018 trailer graphics but it doesn't.
Halo Infinite just needs some extra time to polish the visuals and the lighting. It already looks decent in this build.
Yes it definitely should run the 2018 trailer graphics flawlessly. I'd imagine if Halo were to use a mature Unreal Engine we'd have a game that looks as good if not better than Gears 5. Switching to their new engine probably brings a lot of difficulties.
I'm not certain the engine brought about the issues we're seeing as it was made alongside Infinite. That said, it wouldn't surprise me if the game we see was built only in the last couple years
After the slipspace demo, I expected better than what was shown. For example, I thought we'd be getting terrain that looked something like Death Stranding.
This video helps explain some of the issues. But ultimately I would like to hear from 343i/Microsoft on A) what happened between the demo and the reveal, or B) what we should expect the XSX version to look like once RT is in place etc.
This video helps explain some of the issues. But ultimately I would like to hear from 343i/Microsoft on A) what happened between the demo and the reveal, or B) what we should expect the XSX version to look like once RT is in place etc.
My thinking is that's one of the reasons it's taking this long too. Creating a new engine takes time, and while it's being developed, there will be hiccups and bumps along the way.
Working with a new inhouse engine also isn't easy for artists/game devs. They and the new hires will need to learn the engine, as opposed to if they are using UE which every single artists/devs probably knows how to use lol. If they have problems, there will be a lack of documentations online, they can only rely on the internal engine team. I'd imagine this will add up the dev time.
Anyway we don't really know how complex the engine is, we need some ex-343 to talk :P