DF Direct: Xbox Series X Gameplay Reveal Reaction - Is This Next-Gen?

[Raide]

The more I think about this, the more disappointed I am.

When the (arguably) biggest criticism of your product is the lack of compelling games, to have the debut of the Series X 'gameplay' show very very little gameplay, running on a machine that isn't the Series X, was daft.

I'm genuinely surprised nobody caught it considering how strong the messaging has been otherwise.

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I think it makes sense that they never planned anything for May and they rushed to get something out but not spoil their actual plans for e3. Don't get me wrong, I actually think what was shown off was really good but also not Series X footage, just some early dev titles that look promising.

 

[dgrdsv]

Well, Sony is about to launch two games, where at least one of them will be pretty huge. So yeah, expectations for the next generations are through the roof. And Sony can do nothing to mitigate them.

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Showing next gen launch titles would be a start.

 

[mutantmagnet]

then, I expected that DF would look up those devs, especially the smaller teams and bring up some insight. you know, the interesting stuff. the "analysis".
instead of that, I watched a video starting with comments speculating how these are "based on real time rendering which causes the persistent problems that every game has" ie what shown is not indicative,

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Well your opinion is wrong but I can at least respect the fact you aren't a drive by troll.

I was fairly more negative with the Xbox reveal until Digital Foundry because they did provide a bunch of info that put some of the games in so much of a better light I was even more annoyed with how Microsoft botched this first impression.


They did offer some behind the scenes analysis but it was the type of things you simply didn't care for but I personally found useful enough.

This is something EVERYONE should keep in mind. Anyone else remember the first and to date mindblowing Watch_Dogs presentation? Yeah, that was IN-ENGINE. Look what happened later. The same will 100% apply to Hellblade 2. You'll never see this fidelity in your gameplay. Cutscenes where it's all just prerendered? Of course, that's not hard. But you won't enjoy this and then seamlessly transition into gameplay, I'm sorry to burst anyones bubble here. Not even top of the line PCs can do that as of yet. And if they can't, neither XSX nor PS5 will ever.

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I have my doubts about most games that do in engine shit but that top down shooter basically didn't seem to lose any fidelity over the cut scenes even though they are clearly sharing the same assets. Digital Foundry alluded to this being an RPG hybrid so it seems when we aren't in combat we will be able to experience a bunch of dialogue scenes up close with the details intact.

 

[DocH1X1]

I'm more amazed how they thought 4k 60fps high settings was hard to believe given the series x will be the most powerful gpu and cpu next gen on par with a 2080s and a ryzen 7 (eight core clocked to 3.8 ghz). Maybe it won't but what does that mean for ps5 with a weaker gpu and cpu. The one x achieved 4k 60fps on games like gears 5 (not high settings albeit) but with 6tf gcn and a 4 core mobile janguar cpu. Am I missing something here?

 

[Theorry]

People dont need to take the 4K/60 + raytracing as one package. It all supports it. But that doesnt mean it all uses it at the same time.

 

[Dictator]

I'm more amazed how they thought 4k 60fps high settings was hard to believe given the series x will be the most powerful gpu and cpu next gen on par with a 2080s and a ryzen 7 (eight core clocked to 3.8 ghz). Maybe it won't but what does that mean for ps5 with a weaker gpu and cpu. The one x achieved 4k 60fps on games like gears 5 (not high settings albeit) but with 6tf gcn and a 4 core mobile janguar cpu. Am I missing something here?

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You may want to look up a lot of things. Like the actual clocks of Turing GPUs (they are much higher than their listed theoretical clocks that you show in that graphic). Also you may want to go back to our Gears 5 on XSX video to show how the developers stacked it up against the PC version. You may also want to understand that a real 4K, as in not reconstructed, is very expensive even on an RTX 2080 Ti. Even more so with any tiny bit of ray tracing.

 

[litebrite]

This event was like getting invited to eat an otherworldly burger and when you get there, it's goddamn Burger King.

Criticism from DF was spot on, if this showcase didn't mention Series X at all, it wouldn't make a difference.

Nothing was shown running on the console, they showed none of the advantages next gen will have on current gen.

It was embarrassing and we can only hope that this criticism leads to better showcases in the future.

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I understand the show being a disappointment due to the timing and messaging as the first next gen "gameplay" presentation for XSX, but embarrassing? LOL I laugh at such extreme takes people make in general that makes it difficult to taking these discussions seriously. There was nothing embarrassing about it especially in context to actual embarrassing game presentations.

 

[ZannrebeI]

This is something EVERYONE should keep in mind. Anyone else remember the first and to date mindblowing Watch_Dogs presentation? Yeah, that was IN-ENGINE. Look what happened later. The same will 100% apply to Hellblade 2. You'll never see this fidelity in your gameplay. Cutscenes where it's all just prerendered? Of course, that's not hard. But you won't enjoy this and then seamlessly transition into gameplay, I'm sorry to burst anyones bubble here. Not even top of the line PCs can do that as of yet. And if they can't, neither XSX nor PS5 will ever.

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Yes because Ubisoft dictaes what downdrages will be like for all developers /s. Did you see The Order 1886, Killzone SF, or Ryse get downgraded from their respective debut trailers? I didn't think so, in fact one of them looked better than its reveal cinimatic on launch.

 

[Deleted member 67920]

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Dude, fix your quotes, please?

 

[dgrdsv]

I'm more amazed how they thought 4k 60fps high settings was hard to believe given the series x will be the most powerful gpu and cpu next gen on par with a 2080s and a ryzen 7 (eight core clocked to 3.8 ghz).

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4K/60 is hard to believe precisely because that "2080s and a ryzen 7 (eight core clocked to 3.8 ghz)" of yours isn't enough to hit 4K/60 on PC right now, with XBO level baseline settings.

 

[DocH1X1]

You may want to look up a lot of things. Like the actual clocks of Turing GPUs (they are much higher than their listed theoretical clocks that you show in that graphic). Also you may want to go back to our Gears 5 on XSX video to show how the developers stacked it up against the PC version. You may also want to understand that a real 4K, as in not reconstructed, is very expensive even on an RTX 2080 Ti. Even more so with any tiny bit of ray tracing.

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Apologies that was clearly just my surface level understanding of the subject.

 

[Nzyme32]

I'm more amazed how they thought 4k 60fps high settings was hard to believe given the series x will be the most powerful gpu and cpu next gen on par with a 2080s and a ryzen 7 (eight core clocked to 3.8 ghz). Maybe it won't but what does that mean for ps5 with a weaker gpu and cpu. The one x achieved 4k 60fps on games like gears 5 (not high settings albeit) but with 6tf gcn and a 4 core mobile janguar cpu. Am I missing something here?

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If you are specifically making your comparisons based on Tflop values, CPU speed / number of cores, you are almost certainly going to be wrong and DF will be right to be sceptical.

In real world performance we generally see that nvidia cards with the same or significantly less supposed Tflop performance, perform better than AMD cards.

Similarly we see the same with CPUs from Intel vs AMD. You don't need an 8 core or even 16 thread CPU to have performance surpass current console performance on similar hardware using Intel hardware for example.

There are so many reasons for this, not in the least the varying architectures. I'd trust DF on this.

 

[DocH1X1]

4K/60 is hard to believe precisely because that "2080s and a ryzen 7 (eight core clocked to 3.8 ghz)" of yours isn't enough to hit 4K/60 on PC right now, with XBO level baseline settings.

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If you are specifically making your comparisons based on Tflop values, CPU speed / number of cores, you are almost certainly going to be wrong and DF will be right to be sceptical.

In real world performance we generally see that nvidia cards with the same or significantly less supposed Tflop performance, perform better than AMD cards.

Similarly we see the same with CPUs from Intel vs AMD. You don't need an 8 core or even 16 thread CPU to have performance surpass current console performance on similar hardware using Intel hardware for example.

There are so many reasons for this, not in the least the varying architectures. I'd trust DF on this.

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I aporeciate this insight and again will fully admit surface level understanding here. But looking outside in that genuinely puzzles me so I appreciate the feedback.

 

[Deleted member 30077]

4K/60 is hard to believe precisely because that "2080s and a ryzen 7 (eight core clocked to 3.8 ghz)" of yours isn't enough to hit 4K/60 on PC right now, with XBO level baseline settings.

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I'm pretty sure a 2080 can do 4k60fps without a problem at XBO settings. Ultra settings is a different story as that often has individual settings that hit performance hard. It's certainly possible that ultra settings hit performance harder than whatever next gen games will do, even if the latter end up looking better overall. Considering the X1X does 4k30fps in a decent amount of games and the XSX is more than twice as fast I don't think hitting 4k60fps will be a problem.

However 4k 60fps or even 30fps with raytracing is pretty unbelievable considering how hard raytracing hits performance. Even a 2080Ti can barely get above 60fps when you use raytracing at lower resolutions like 1080p/1440p.

 

[Dictator]

N

Apologies that was clearly just my surface level understanding of the subject.

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No need to apologise! :)

 

[Nzyme32]

I aporeciate this insight and again will fully admit surface level understanding here. But looking outside in that genuinely puzzles me so I appreciate the feedback.

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No worries, this stuff is a learning curve for most people not super familiar with it all. It doesn't help that marketing from console and hardware vendors is often not in line with reality

 

[DocH1X1]

N

No need to apologise! :)

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Appreciate your understanding man, I'll be the first to admit my ignorance on a lot if this technical stuff lol.

 

[RingRang]

I have to say it's fascinating how DF seems to flip-flop from one side to the other when it comes to the good graces of gamers. Sony trolls almost managed to drive Dictator out of this site with their pathetic whining and now we have people calling DF gross for covering a show MS themselves promoted as a next gen showing.

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What kind of ratio are we really seeing on the two sides of this situation?

 

[dgrdsv]

I'm pretty sure a 2080 can do 4k60fps without a problem at XBO settings.

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Depends on a title obviously but universally - no, it can't.

 

[Doctor Avatar]

The one x achieved 4k 60fps on games like gears 5

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No it didn't. Gears 5 is a temporally reconstructed game that reaches a maximum internal resolution of 1800p, is lower than that a lot of the time and can drop as low as 1080p. It can occasionally reach native 4K in rare occasions in the 30fps cut scenes, that is about it.

It's really funny how so many people think Gears 5 is 4K. Especially the people that claim that native 4K is so important.

Just goes to show what a waste pushing for native resolutions is.

 

[theAllseeingEYE]

Depends on a title obviously but universally - no, it can't.

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At Xbox One settings, on the vast majority of games, yes it can. My 2080, and even my old 1080ti nips at the heels of 4k60 at Ultra settings almost across the board. It should take most devs basic tweaks to get the same performance from the XSX.

It's only now in the last year or so, as games have started to ramp up visuals that it's been harder to reach that, but resolution scaling and DLSS type features are becoming the norm.

 

[DocH1X1]

No it didn't. Gears 5 is a temporally reconstructed game that reaches a maximum internal resolution of 1800p, is lower than that a lot of the time and can drop as low as 1080p. It can occasionally reach native 4K in rare occasions in the 30fps cut scenes, that is about it.

It's really funny how so many people think Gears 5 is 4K. Especially the people that claim that native 4K is so important.

Just goes to show what a waste pushing for native resolutions is.

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Fair enough but that is super impressive for 6 tf gcn and a 4 core mobile processor cpu

 

[Doctor Avatar]

Fair enough but that is super impressive for 6 tf gcn and a 4 core mobile processor cpu

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Does make you wonder what the point is of wasting resources on native 4K over reconstruction when nobody can tell right? I bet you played that entire game thinking it was native 4K. As did 99.999% of people that played it.

Reconstruction is the future.

 

[Scottish Sin]

Let's be honest, Microsoft didn't exactly do themselves any favours with how they marketed their Inside Xbox. Expectations were understandably through the roof.

With that said, let's wait and see how first party games look on these consoles, before everything gets all doom and gloom, yeah?

 

[TheOne]

Depends on a title obviously but universally - no, it can't.

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I understand you carefully chose your words lol

Yes, universally, it simply cannot, though I am judging on max settings, rather than Xbox One settings. I sold my 1080Ti 2 months ago, but I cannot remember a single title that I couldn't push to 4K60 in my steam library as long as I was willing to lower a bit the most expensive graphical settings. I imagine it would be an equivalent, if not better situation for a 2080.

At Xbox One settings, on the vast majority of games, yes it can. My 2080, and even my old 1080ti nips at the heels of 4k60 at Ultra settings almost across the board. It should take most devs basic tweaks to get the same performance from the XSX.

It's only now in the last year or so, as games have started to ramp up visuals that it's been harder to reach that, but resolution scaling and DLSS type features are becoming the norm.

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Simply to add on this: You simply won't be able to max out many games nowadays with a 1080Ti or a 2080 and run them at 4K steadily holding 60 fps. I can name many titles where you simply cannot. Rise of the Tomb Raider, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Resident Evil 2, 3, Control, Red Dead Redemption 2 to name but a few. Lowering some settings a bit will usually be more than enough to obtain that 4K60 though. Considering Xbox One settings are usually a mix of low/med/high/ultra, I wouldn't be surprised that you could run the vast majority of games nowadays using those settings at 4K60.

 

[theAllseeingEYE]

The more I think about this, the more disappointed I am.

When the (arguably) biggest criticism of your product is the lack of compelling games, to have the debut of the Series X 'gameplay' show very very little gameplay, running on a machine that isn't the Series X, was daft.

I'm genuinely surprised nobody caught it considering how strong the messaging has been otherwise.

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I don't see what the arguable lack of compelling games on X1 has to do with whether or not an early demo was potentially running on a dev kit or not. What Microsoft definitely did right here, in my opinion, was highlight a series of compelling games, that show diversity.

Like, I get people wanting to see some monumental leap in visuals, but this is easily the most transparent a first party has ever been with regards to early console reveals. Usually during a console launch, we get is fake CG trailer after fake CG trailer, showing games that look mostly impossible on that hardware.

We already have proof that the XSX runs at similar performance to a 2080, so just by seeing PC performance numbers, we can say with confidence that basically everything we saw the other night is likely possible, and representative of what we are going to get from those games.

Also don't forget that the video feed was mostly poor. Those games will look significantly better on your home screen.

 

[Dr Richard Kimble]

Next gen all boils down to human talent - not technical specifications. The most impressive games will exist because of extremely talented developers, not because of a couple extra teraflops.

 

[theAllseeingEYE]

I understand you carefully chose your words lol

Yes, universally, it simply cannot, though I am judging on max settings, rather than Xbox One settings. I sold my 1080Ti 2 months ago, but I cannot remember a single title that I couldn't push to 4K60 in my steam library as long as I was willing to lower a bit the most expensive graphical settings. I imagine it would be an equivalent, if not better situation for a 2080.



Simply to add on this: You simply won't be able to max out many games nowadays with a 1080Ti or a 2080 and run them at 4K steadily holding 60 fps. I can name many titles where you simply cannot. Rise of the Tomb Raider, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Resident Evil 2, 3, Control, Red Dead Redemption 2 to name but a few. Lowering some settings a bit will usually be more than enough to obtain that 4K60 though. Considering Xbox One settings are usually a mix of low/med/high/ultra, I wouldn't be surprised that you could run the vast majority of games nowadays using those settings at 4K60.

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Like yeah, I generally agree with this. As we push forward, it will become harder for a 2080 to hit 4k60 at "Ultra". But what devs label as ultra on PC is arbitrary, and a great PC game should be scalable and build for the future.

Devs will definitely be able to hit 4k60 on series X if that is thier target. On the other hard, I'd prefer they use every trick in the book to push visuals, and reconstruct and dynamically scale that image back up to 4k and also allow multiple visual settings (ray tracing, 4k60, 120hz). Give options so that everyone gets the most out of thier TV, whether it be 1080p, 1080p 120hz, 1440p, 120hz, 4k, or 4k 120hz.

 

[Detective]

Native 4K is a waste of resources which can be used on other things.

 

[Kholdy]

I understand the show being a disappointment due to the timing and messaging as the first next gen "gameplay" presentation for XSX, but embarrassing? LOL I laugh at such extreme takes people make in general that makes it difficult to taking these discussions seriously. There was nothing embarrassing about it especially in context to actual embarrassing game presentations.

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Yes, it's embarrassing that a software company and it's gaming division (with a lot of old dogs) haven't learned how to set expectations, how to align internal communication in something as simples as an online showcase.(That should've been a recorded video not that shitty live stream)

This event was supposed to highlight and help give some spotlight to those smaller developers not involve them in some controversy.
Microsoft made theses guys no favor, most headlines are about how "Microsoft fumbled the ball" or "How next-gen is meh", the best case you see people saying that the games are not bad but shouldn't be in that presentation.
Those people didn't deserve that.

Microsoft was not ready to show anything and did anyway (just for the sake of showing something)

To make matters worse, official Xbox social media/Marketing team kept their mouth running unchecked.

So yeah, that a company the size of Microsoft still makes these stupid junior mistakes for no reason, it's embarrassing.

 

[DocH1X1]

Does make you wonder what the point is of wasting resources on native 4K over reconstruction when nobody can tell right? I bet you played that entire game thinking it was native 4K. As did 99.999% of people that played it.

Reconstruction is the future.

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I not only agree it been my main issue with this gen that at least an OPTION for 1080p/1440p 60fps wasn't available

 

[sun-drop]

i wonder if MS got a nasty wakeup call by the reaction to this cross-gen approach of theirs ... and i wonder if they are going to scramble to try and solve it ?

all they can really do at this point is try to buy off some next-gen focused 3rd party titles with some kind of series x exclusivity period ... otherwise they are going to look completely outclassed if Sony demo solely next-gen focused software. if sony do have titles to demo this month it couldn't be better timing ... look at the media .. you already see "diminishing returns" apologists ... which lowers expectations leading up to a PS5 event ...this could get messy..

 

[edryr]

We already have proof that the XSX runs at similar performance to a 2080

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That is, only in rasterisation.
I remember dictator stating next gen gpu weren't on par with ray tracing implementation on rtx cards.

 

[Crayon]

Managing expectations in this case is tough. It was not a great idea to lead the charge with this kind of material. A super impressive next gen game is what you want to show out of the gate. Games we saw here looked nice but to let that be the "first gameplay" was maybe a bad play.

 

[ILikeFeet]

That is, only in rasterisation.
I remember dictator stating next gen gpu weren't on par with ray tracing implementation on rtx cards.

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I think that's his expectation, as there's no measure of RDNA2's rt performance

 

[Prine]

i wonder if MS got a nasty wakeup call by the reaction to this cross-gen approach of theirs ... and i wonder if they are going to scramble to try and solve it ?

all they can really do at this point is try to buy off some next-gen focused 3rd party titles with some kind of series x exclusivity period ... otherwise they are going to look completely outclassed if Sony demo solely next-gen focused software. if sony do have titles to demo this month it couldn't be better timing ... look at the media .. you already see "diminishing returns" apologists ... which lowers expectations leading up to a PS5 event ...this could get messy..

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Poor reaction was mostly due to little gameplay, and misleading about scale of I.Ps, most of which were indie games. I've not seen strong backlash from prominent commentators (IGN, Game informer, industry analysts) about cross gen, as we've not seen anything substantial from their first party to pin on cross gen.

In terms of what MS have shown from first party on XSX , we've only seen Hellblade 2 (and presumably Everwild), which look like next gen only games, I think those were received positively.

 

[sjackso3]

i wonder if MS got a nasty wakeup call by the reaction to this cross-gen approach of theirs ... and i wonder if they are going to scramble to try and solve it ?

all they can really do at this point is try to buy off some next-gen focused 3rd party titles with some kind of series x exclusivity period ... otherwise they are going to look completely outclassed if Sony demo solely next-gen focused software. if sony do have titles to demo this month it couldn't be better timing ... look at the media .. you already see "diminishing returns" apologists ... which lowers expectations leading up to a PS5 event ...this could get messy..

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Scorn and Medium are next gen only titles and exclusive to Series X and PC.

 

[theAllseeingEYE]

That is, only in rasterisation.
I remember dictator stating next gen gpu weren't on par with ray tracing implementation on rtx cards.

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That's possible, although in my experience Minecraft with Ray Tracing on XSX was running very similar to the performance of my 2080 at 1080p (50-60fps). Although RTX cards also have DLSS 2.0, so I can easily boost that to 1440p at 50-60fps with very little in noticeable artifacts. It will be interesting to see comparisons there when XSX launches. We also don't know what kind of optimizations they did to get Minecraft to that state on XSX.

 

[litebrite]

Yes, it's embarrassing that a software company and it's gaming division (with a lot of old dogs) haven't learned how to set expectations, how to align internal communication in something as simples as an online showcase.(That should've been a recorded video not that shitty live stream)

This event was supposed to highlight and help give some spotlight to those smaller developers not involve them in some controversy.
Microsoft made theses guys no favor, most headlines are about how "Microsoft fumbled the ball" or "How next-gen is meh", the best case you see people saying that the games are not bad but shouldn't be in that presentation.
Those people didn't deserve that.

Microsoft was not ready to show anything and did anyway (just for the sake of showing something)

To make matters worse, official Xbox social media/Marketing team kept their mouth running unchecked.

So yeah, that a company the size of Microsoft still makes these stupid junior mistakes for no reason, it's embarrassing.

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LOL OK. It wasn't that big of deal in the grand scheme of things. Please get some perspective.

 

[dgrdsv]

At Xbox One settings, on the vast majority of games, yes it can.

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No, it can't. I'm saying this after playing through RE2 and RE3 in 4K/60 on what is a tad higher than XBO settings level. 2080 can't hold steady 4K/60 in either of these two - and these are kinda linear smaller scope games with simplistic engines tuned for running at >30 on current gen consoles. You can guess what will happen in games which are actually targeting 30 fps on modern consoles - the likes of RDR2, ACs, Exodus, etc.

2080's performance is not enough for 4K/60 in current gen titles with XBO level of graphics. And 2080 is kinda in-between PS5 and XSX in its rendering capabilities.

 

[Stacey]

No, it can't. I'm saying this after playing through RE2 and RE3 in 4K/60 on what is a tad higher than XBO settings level. 2080 can't hold steady 4K/60 in either of these two - and these are kinda linear smaller scope games with simplistic engines tuned for running at >30 on current gen consoles. You can guess what will happen in games which are actually targeting 30 fps on modern consoles - the likes of RDR2, ACs, Exodus, etc.

2080's performance is not enough for 4K/60 in current gen titles with XBO level of graphics. And 2080 is kinda in-between PS5 and XSX in its rendering capabilities.

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This is my experience with a 2080 super. 4k60 just isn't feasible without cutting back on all the cool looking effects and visuals seen in current gen games.

 

[Anthony Hopkins]

i wonder if MS got a nasty wakeup call by the reaction to this cross-gen approach of theirs ... and i wonder if they are going to scramble to try and solve it ?

all they can really do at this point is try to buy off some next-gen focused 3rd party titles with some kind of series x exclusivity period ... otherwise they are going to look completely outclassed if Sony demo solely next-gen focused software. if sony do have titles to demo this month it couldn't be better timing ... look at the media .. you already see "diminishing returns" apologists ... which lowers expectations leading up to a PS5 event ...this could get messy..

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Its going to depend on a couple of factors on how bad the cross gen period will be for ms

1. How good the next gen enhancements are for ms cross gen titles.
2. How good ps5 exclusives look in comparison
3.how good the games are.

 

[Windu]

Poor reaction was mostly due to little gameplay, and misleading about scale of I.Ps, most of which were indie games. I've not seen strong backlash from prominent commentators (IGN, Game informer, industry analysts) about cross gen, as we've not seen anything substantial from their first party to pin on cross gen.

In terms of what MS have shown from first party on XSX , we've only seen Hellblade 2 (and presumably Everwild), which look like next gen only games, I think those were received positively.

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Everwild has been announced for Xbox One.

 

[Detective]

I've said it several times even before next gen talk.
MS needs to ditch Xbox one as soon as possible after next console. I don't get why they are clinging so hard onto that crap.

 

[Irrotational]

I'm going a bit OT but the loss of E3 is going to make all these news and announcements really fragmented over the next few months. Each big Dev/Publisher wants their own event to make their own splash, whilst PS want to make theirs and Xbox do too...so gameplay reveals and next gen graphics etc are going to be spread quite thin over the next few months :(

Lots of good stuff shown, and to be shown, but really disparate.

As there's no E3 deadline looming I'm worried the launch date and price of both consoles is going to come out really late, maybe not until August or September, as neither party will want to go first.

 

[mindatlarge]

Honestly, I'm looking forward to improved AI in games more than improved graphical fidelity. Hoping this is the gen we start seeing that.

 

[HighspeedRefleX]

Next gen all boils down to human talent - not technical specifications. The most impressive games will exist because of extremely talented developers, not because of a couple extra teraflops.

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That's like saying there wouldn't be a difference between a small increase in power compared to what we have now for XsX and PS5 and that devs would still be able to get the most out of it because they are talented which is true but otherwise I disagree.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

I've said it several times even before next gen talk.
MS needs to ditch Xbox one as soon as possible after next console. I don't get why they are clinging so hard onto that crap.

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It is because of Game Pass and their message of "play these games anywhere across our hardware lineup".

The majority of GP subs are still on Xbox One and they aren't sure how quickly the transition will be from this gen to the next. As such, they have to continue dragging current gen along until they are satisfied with how GP subs are moving. That is why that "1-2" year window they gave is just an estimate. It could be shorter than a year or it could end up being longer than 2.

It all depends on GP at this point.

A flaw in this strategy is that they are trying to push "next-gen" experiences but they have a message that directly clashes with that. Basically, MS wants their cake and to eat it too but I think they should just focus on the strength of their core plan.

 

[blitzblake]

I'll wait for first party offerings, particularly Sony, before passing judgement.

 

[Deleted member 21709]

Scorn and Medium are next gen only titles and exclusive to Series X and PC.

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To be fair, all first party titles are supposedly cross-gen, no? Or does that just apply for the launch year releases?

In any case, that will likely become a problem for them. These game designs will need to be playable on a OG Xbox One.