DF Direct: PS5: The full technical specification

[Deleted member 52190]

Actually just tried searching for it on the forum and didn't find it. He didn't say it on Twitter? We've had people claiming for ages that he had heard PS5 would be higher.

My bad if that wasn't the case. I consistently saw people say "KLee, Reiner and Schreier said"

Click to shrink...

No, he didnt. The only think he said has that both systems were very powerful and close to 2080 levels.

Im pretty sure that Matt was deliberately vague enough so as not to be caught out but for some reason I also remember him saying PS5 was more powerful??? (I could be completely misremembering that so apologies if I am)

Click to shrink...

Nop, Matt said that the difference beteween both were around 15% and he has correct. On top of that, he said that if he had to guess, the Xbox whould be the more powerful one.

 

[Bishop89]

can people with more technical knowledge make some PRACTICAL examples of how they are gonna use the faster ssd to revolutionize games? so not abstract stuff like "imagine what this can do for games based on teleportation" like what does even mean games based on teleportation?

what are tangible use for this technology in laymen terms?

it is just for avoid some loading times like the forced passagges in jedi fallen order? is this what people call revolution? because i was never really disturbed by those things, they are what? 20 min max in a 25 hours game at most?

i want real example of revolutionary gameplay ideas possible thanks to faster ssd, less narrow passagges is hardly what i call revolution tbh.

Click to shrink...

Well the jak 2 example cerny used. Basically things that developers have done to mask loading screens and such will no longer be required, and devs will able to design games with a different mindset.

 

[M4xim1l1ano]

in few days we'll have people claiming that PS5 is better performing than XboxX

Click to shrink...

this is funny because before the announcement people were arguing that nowhere in hell that Sony would be using 36cu vs 52 for Xbox, that it didn't make sense to give away that advantage etc..
And now that we have this reality, same people are saying that PS5 is super balanced, can do more with less etc..

obviously every part of the design matters and both MS and Sony designed the machine to have as few bottlenecks as possible, both machines punch above its weight thanks to customised solutions both uses..

 

[Monster Zero]

Series X is not the issue but PCs. Developers will still have to factor in that the majority are not rocking m. 2 drives, so games will have to be designed around this fact. This is why the PS5 SSD advantage will only be fully realised by first party devs.

Click to shrink...

The poll on this forum alone is close to 20% still using HDDs to run their games.

 

[Deleted member 22585]

Both of them do the same thing, get data off of the SSD quickly with little strain on the CPU, the main difference is that the PS5 does it faster.
I really think people are overestimating a lot of the advantages the PS5 and Xbox Series X have over each other, the games are going to be very similar.

Click to shrink...

Everyone needs to be aware of this post. I know it's fun to debate and speculate. But in the end, these machines will be closer than ever regarding multiplats - at least from the currently available specs.

 

[Magic Mushroom]

Schreier 100% did

Click to shrink...

He said an engineer told him it was the most exciting hardware in 20 years, that's not the same as him claing PS5 would be superior. He just said, like many other industry folks, that there is more to a machine than just Tflops.

 

[STech]

"SSD is gonna change everything"


Nah, we are going to get the same FIFAs, COD, NBA, same 2D indies... again and again and again, and this is going to have zero impact in common game development and common game public despite a quicker load times.

 

[Sid]

in few days we'll have people claiming that PS5 is better performing than XboxX

Click to shrink...

😂😂😂😂

 

[lupinko]

Can people please remember this when the Switch 2 launches? Because architecture differences will mean it can punch above its weight regards it's FLOPs.

Click to shrink...

That's different because Nvidia is way better at designing things than AMD is.

 

[GymWolf86]

thanks to all.
i know i sound like a ball buster, but even with people telling me these things, it's hard for me actually imagine this revolution in gameplay and level design, it's still sound so abstract...
in the other hands i already know what a more powerfull gpu\cpu combo can do, like better resoution, better framerate, better details, more polygons for geometry and characters, more rtx, better physics etc.
i don't know if all these tangible things that you have always in front of you are a worst gain compared to some abstract concept that we are gonna see only in big exclusives sony games...

bare with me a little, i'm in lockdown and still a little pissed of for the reveal, as a pc gamer i always aim for more raw power in every hardware i buy, i will gladly return to my old ass hard disk for an heavy discount on a 3080ti :-)
(i just don't care about loading times or narrow passages to mask them...)

 

[Nauren]

It's not the dream console, master beast that I had my fingers crossed for, but it is a vastly more powerful machine that I'm sure I will be 100% satisfied with.

 

[PJV3]

"SSD is gonna change everything"


Nah, we are going to get the same FIFAs, COD, NBA, same 2D indies... again and again and again, and this is going to have zero impact in common game development and common game public despite a quicker load times.

Click to shrink...

The sound stuff is probably going to change FIFA more, you can hear people in the crowd talking about your perfomance, and you have to do an Eric Cantona to sort it out.

 

[pepone1234]

No, that's not how it works. Parallelization is difficult to make. Sometimes you can't do it.
Practical exemple :
You need to build a house with either 36 stronger and faster people or 54 less stronger and slower.
If you have 54 woods to move than anyone can lift, your bigger team will crush the other, they will do it in one ride, so basically your smaller team is bottleneck.
If you have 36 woods or less, your smaller team will crushed the other.
If you have 36 woods or less and part of them are too heavy for your bigger team, bottleneck for your bigger team.

It is very, very simplified, but that's the idea.

Click to shrink...

The problem with this is that we are talking about graphics and not houses and woods.

Graphics is an embarrasingly parallel task so in this context 54 IS better than 36. That is why nvidia is making 700sqmm graphics chips, because with graphics there is no problem in using huge amounts of cores or CUs.

 

[19thCenturyFox]

What does this approach mean for ray tracing? Are more cu's or a higher clock frequency better?

Click to shrink...

It would have to be a very specific scenario in order for the higher clock frequency to give an advantage when it comes to ray tracing. When comparing PS5 to Xbox Series X the latter is just straight up the more potent ray tracing hardware.

If there was any secret sauce for ray tracing capabilities we would have heard about it. In fact it was downplayed during the PS5 presentation, "you don't have to use it" plus the graph that shows ray tracing effects like reflections and path tracing on the red end of the bar, it seems to me like they are just checking a box instead of heavily focusing on ray tracing as Microsoft appears to do. The likely reason is that PS5's ray tracing performance is nothing to write home about.

 

[Tusken77]

Excellent video. No wonder DF are so impressed, Sony's innovative approach is fascinating. PS5 is a hugely exciting machine.

 

[PJV3]

The likely reason is that PS5's ray tracing performance is nothing to write home about.

Click to shrink...

Didn't he say it was running on titles without much cost, i dunno how it's going to turn out but he seems almost disinterested in it, it's not his baby like the other ideas in the box.

 

[Prine]

He said an engineer told him it was the most exciting hardware in 20 years, that's not the same as him claing PS5 would be superior. He just said, like many other industry folks, that there is more to a machine than just Tflops.

Click to shrink...

It's like people want to be mislead.

 

[Elios83]

It would have to be a very specific scenario in order for the higher clock frequency to give an advantage when it comes to ray tracing. When comparing PS5 to Xbox Series X the latter is just straight up the more potent ray tracing hardware.

If there was any secret sauce for ray tracing capabilities we would have heard about it. In fact it was downplayed during the PS5 presentation, "you don't have to use it" plus the graph that shows ray tracing effects like reflections and path tracing on the red end of the bar, it seems to me like they are just checking a box instead of heavily focusing on ray tracing as Microsoft appears to do. The likely reason is that PS5's ray tracing performance is nothing to write home about.

Click to shrink...

Cerny stated the opposite in the conference, that he just saw games with ray tracing with minimum performance penality.

 

[AM_LIGHT]

One thing i don't see people talking about is how cerny emphasized the thermals of the console. Him acknowledging the shortcomings of the current gen gives me hope they came up with a better solution this time .

 

[Binabik15]

So, getting ready to watch the DF vid.

My take so far after sleeping on it.

-The relative TFlops difference is not that huge, I don't get why some people act like Sony betrayed them OR the gleeful handrubbing of the warriors on the other side. The difference should be small for multiplats, which is where it'd matter most, so nextgen baseline is safe.

-The high GPU frequency still surprises me, but interesting to see how its positives will be utilised.

- 3D audio is hot and will stay hot. Surprising that they spent that much effort on it, but it might go hand in hand with PSVR2 for much higher immersion?

-The Geometry Engine. What. I was joking about Sony putting in different custom chips so you'd have PS5s going from 8 to 14 Tflops. And now they have one that does stuff that I have zero clue about and how that affects performance and ease of development!

-SSD. Still a damn beast. No idea if its speed over Xbox helps outside of first party titles.

-CPU. Is 3.5Ghz with SMT on, then it'd be a small difference to Xbox's 3.6 with it on?


So, enlighten me DF, but I'm pretty happy that devs seem to be excited, because PS5 seems more convoluted than PS4 and SeX at a first glance.

 

[More Butter]

id say sony typically out design the competition, no power brick, smaller .. has there ever been a console launched within a 6mth period near a sony one that competed ? that sony special sauce is real

Click to shrink...

I mean 360 launched first and had a lot of advantages. I think it's worth pointing out that MS put a fast SSD in their box as well. It's not like XSX is ridden with bottlenecks. IO is good on Xbox but Sony has taken that to a new level. I think the CPU/GPU advantage on XSX coupled with some thoughtful implementation of software API solutions will be great for devs to push visuals, streamline design and push the medium forward. I don't think MS were caught with their pants down. Hell maybe PS5 actually allows for games that Xbox just can't do though. I could be completely wrong.

 

[Dictator]

Cerny stated the opposite in the conference, that he just saw games with ray tracing with minimum performance penality.

Click to shrink...

We did not see any of that or have any context to that at all. Just some rather unspecific words. Very different context to seeing a fully path traced game running on XSX.
There is no logical reason to think the PS5 would be better at the aabb intersections or triangle intersections required for RT or the necessary and expensive shading step there after. They both use the same Implementation.

 

[More Butter]

id say sony typically out design the competition, no power brick, smaller .. has there ever been a console launched within a 6mth period near a sony one that competed ? that sony special sauce is real

Click to shrink...

I mean 360 launched first and had a lot of advantages. I think it's worth pointing out that MS put a fast SSD in their box as well. It's not like XSX is ridden with bottlenecks. IO is good on Xbox but Sony has taken that to a new level. I think the CPU/GPU advantage on XSX coupled with some thoughtful implementation of software API solutions will be great for devs to push visuals, streamline design and push the medium forward. I don't think MS were caught with their pants down. Hell maybe PS5 actually allows for games that Xbox just can't do though. I could be completely wrong.

 

[ArchedThunder]

It would have to be a very specific scenario in order for the higher clock frequency to give an advantage when it comes to ray tracing. When comparing PS5 to Xbox Series X the latter is just straight up the more potent ray tracing hardware.

If there was any secret sauce for ray tracing capabilities we would have heard about it. In fact it was downplayed during the PS5 presentation, "you don't have to use it" plus the graph that shows ray tracing effects like reflections and path tracing on the red end of the bar, it seems to me like they are just checking a box instead of heavily focusing on ray tracing as Microsoft appears to do. The likely reason is that PS5's ray tracing performance is nothing to write home about.

Click to shrink...

I imagine it'll be like low vs medium settings on RT for PS5 vs XSX, but ultimately it probably won't be a big deal with the exception of the rare path traced game.

 

[GING-SAMA]

10GB of data going into the system memory on that loading screen take would take about 1,25 seconds on the PS5 to load with compression technique and 2,08 seconds on Xbox.


Once you get to 2GB/s or so, the speeds really become less and less material and the I/O speed less important.


100Mb/s vs 400Mb/s yes the difference is massive (100 sec vs 40 sec (approx))

 

[Elios83]

We did not see any of that or have any context to that at all. Just some rather unspecific words. Very different context to seeing a fully path traced game running on XSX.
There is no logical reason to think the PS5 would be better at the aabb intersections or triangle intersections required for RT or the necessary and expensive shading step there after. They both use the same Implementation.

Click to shrink...

Indeed but my reply was to the statement "Sony knows their RT performance is nothing to write home about" not that PS5 will have better RT.
I don't think so but in general GPU wise it will be interesting to see real life performance, Cerny was very clear that they designed the GPU this way not to have bottlenecks, to have a strong rasterizing and geometry engine part and to keep all the CUs always active.
We need to see games, unfortunately Sony hasn't showcased any example yet.

 

[GING-SAMA]

I think alot of people are downplaying the crazy SSD speeds Sony has and is saying stuff like "it's not going to amount to anything more then a few seconds faster loading" but I don't think they have watched either Cerny or DF talk. Sony's SSD isn't only 100% faster it also has some extra dedicated hardware and coprocessors to aid and steer this crazy dataflow. Something that the XsX doesn't have. I'm pretty sure that's it's all going to amount to much more than just a few seconds of loading.

Will we see the advantages in 3rd party games? Maybe not to the extent of first party games but I'm certain we will see more than just a reduction in load times.

Exciting times ahead.

Click to shrink...

Microsoft do the same with the new Velocity architecture, Direct Storage.

 

[Brohan]

Microsoft do the same with the new Velocity architecture, Direct Storage.

Click to shrink...

I don't think any of us have the insight or know how to claim that they are doing the same. I doubt it. And even if they are there is still a 100% difference in speed. It's not something you can just write off as insignificant.

 

[tzare]

Yep peoples discussions about the ssd being game changing are correct - the hyperbole about Sony's amazing game changing ssd is fanboyish when Microsoft also have a similiar set up just with slower speeds which may or may not actually be game changing I suspect mostly not other than a few examples . Next gen seems great so far the pricing stuff and also cross platform upgrade games is where Sony decides if they get a day one from me along side Xbox

Click to shrink...

as fanboyish as claiming that a 15% lead in TF will also allow for huge differences in visuals or performance, some act like the consoles are really far in raw power, which is exactly the opposite, since are probably the closest ever, and much closer than current gen ones, including refreshes.
We know what differences may happen with 15% more TF, but we still don't know how those SSD speeds will do , besides faster loading times on one system or another.

 

[Brohan]

I also really enjoy that the crowd that thinks the differences in SSD speed will amount to nothing more than a few seconds difference in loading times (something we don't know yet) are always using the smallest numbers to downplay the difference.

Sure a 1 second difference between a 2 second and 1 second load time seems like nothing. But what do you think about the difference between 30 seconds and 60 seconds? Looks alot bigger doesn't it? Well it's still a 100% difference. Which is what we are having with the next gen SSDs.

 

[DavidDesu]

Exactly, more than any other gen this will be one where whatever exclusives you want is what matters. People trying to champion one machine as better than the other when they are so similar, but just achieving stuff in different ways, are weird to me. I'm happy that they are so similar honestly.

Click to shrink...

Yeah. I don't remember if Tidux on Twitter is liked or loathed here (some spider sense tells me the latter) but I just saw someone RT him and says

X1X 6 TF - PS4Pro 4.2 TF DIFF = 42,86%

XSX 12.1 TF - PS5 10.3 TF DIFF = 17.48 %.

Click to shrink...

I presume the calculations are accurate enough, I haven't double checked, but yeah the One X has definitely got better visuals in third party games, has pushed better frame rates and resolutions in some titles, but even that 40% gulf hasn't made a huge difference to the gaming landscape. A much smaller difference in graphical prowess will close this gap considerably, meanwhile both consoles use fast SSD and have really capable CPUs that have been much needed all generation. The games are gonna be insane on both consoles. No game is going to visually look like it's in a different league between these two consoles.

 

[ArchedThunder]

I also really enjoy that the crowd that thinks the differences in SSD speed will amount to nothing more than a few seconds difference in loading times (something we don't know yet) are always using the smallest numbers to downplay the difference.

Sure a 1 second difference between a 2 second and 1 second load time seems like nothing. But what do you think about the difference between 30 seconds and 60 seconds? Looks alot bigger doesn't it? Well it's still a 100% difference. Which is what we are having with the next gen SSDs.

Click to shrink...

One of the biggest reasons both are going with SSDs is to keep load times much lower than even 30 seconds. Sony is hoping for 1 second load times, that's why people are saying 2 seconds on XSX.

 

[Seganomics]

I also really enjoy that the crowd that thinks the differences in SSD speed will amount to nothing more than a few seconds difference in loading times (something we don't know yet) are always using the smallest numbers to downplay the difference.

Sure a 1 second difference between a 2 second and 1 second load time seems like nothing. But what do you think about the difference between 30 seconds and 60 seconds? Looks alot bigger doesn't it? Well it's still a 100% difference. Which is what we are having with the next gen SSDs.

Click to shrink...

60 second load times will not be a thing on ANY next gen device.

 

[Deleted member 135]

Theoretically the PS5 could utilize higher quality assets than the Series X due to its speed (IE 8K textures rather than 4K).

 

[GING-SAMA]

I don't think any of us have the insight or know how to claim that they are doing the same. I doubt it. And even if they are there is still a 100% difference in speed. It's not something you can just write off as insignificant.

Click to shrink...

Don't read to much into this 100% difference.

 

[Altair]

I also really enjoy that the crowd that thinks the differences in SSD speed will amount to nothing more than a few seconds difference in loading times (something we don't know yet) are always using the smallest numbers to downplay the difference.

Sure a 1 second difference between a 2 second and 1 second load time seems like nothing. But what do you think about the difference between 30 seconds and 60 seconds? Looks alot bigger doesn't it? Well it's still a 100% difference. Which is what we are having with the next gen SSDs.

Click to shrink...

Implying either console will take 30-60 seconds to load any game. That isn't happening at all. The SSD was a highly requested feature precisely for that reason.

 

[GING-SAMA]

I also really enjoy that the crowd that thinks the differences in SSD speed will amount to nothing more than a few seconds difference in loading times (something we don't know yet) are always using the smallest numbers to downplay the difference.

Sure a 1 second difference between a 2 second and 1 second load time seems like nothing. But what do you think about the difference between 30 seconds and 60 seconds? Looks alot bigger doesn't it? Well it's still a 100% difference. Which is what we are having with the next gen SSDs.

Click to shrink...

Woa.

 

[GING-SAMA]

Yeah. I don't remember if Tidux on Twitter is liked or loathed here (some spider sense tells me the latter) but I just saw someone RT him and says

I presume the calculations are accurate enough, I haven't double checked, but yeah the One X has definitely got better visuals in third party games, has pushed better frame rates and resolutions in some titles, but even that 40% gulf hasn't made a huge difference to the gaming landscape. A much smaller difference in graphical prowess will close this gap considerably, meanwhile both consoles use fast SSD and have really capable CPUs that have been much needed all generation. The games are gonna be insane on both consoles. No game is going to visually look like it's in a different league between these two consoles.

Click to shrink...

The RT will be the difference.

Not Res etc...

 

[Brohan]

One of the biggest reasons both are going with SSDs is to keep load times much lower than even 30 seconds.

Click to shrink...

I understand that but my point still stands. We don't know yet what the load times are going to be like and if they can be eliminated entirely.

If load times actually get eliminated entirely by lets say the XsX. Don't you think that the PS5 SSD that has double the speed can be used for other stuff other than loading times? Lets say streaming in more assets?

Again downplaying a 100% difference is stupid. Especially when you are claiming a 15% difference in GPU power is huge and means that the PS5 simply Can't keep up.

I have said it before but I will say it again: there are alot of people showing their True colors.

 

[BubblegumNemesis]

😂😂😂😂

Click to shrink...

War never changes :)

 

[Brohan]

Woa.

Click to shrink...

Nice shitpost. If you don't have anything to say then don't.

 

[Kolx]

Wait, did they dedicate hardware to the audio similar to the entire jaguar 8 core cpu in the ps4?

 

[ArchedThunder]

I understand that but my point still stands. We don't know yet what the load times are going to be like and if they can be eliminated entirely.

If load times actually get eliminated entirely by lets say the XsX. Don't you think that the PS5 SSD that has double the speed can be used for other stuff other than loading times? Lets say streaming in more assets?

Again downplaying a 100% difference is stupid. Especially when you are claiming a 15% difference in GPU power is huge and means that the PS5 simply Can't keep up.

I have said it before but I will say it again: there are alot of people showing their True colors.

Click to shrink...

Uh, you realize you are mainly arguing with people right now that are saying both systems are basically going to be capable of the same things, right?
Also keep in mind the SSD is not a magic bullet in either system, the GPU and RAM still need to deal with the assets.

The differences between the two are going to be so minor it's pointless to argue that one feature from either of them will suddenly make it a better machine.

 

[DavidDesu]

The RT will be the difference.

Not Res etc...

Click to shrink...

I know more CUs is better for raytracing, but has anyone worked out what the clock difference means with regards to that? Sony has less CUs but higher clocks, how big of a disparity will we have for raytracing?

Also considering we might presume that PS5 will generallly be running at a reduced dynamic resolution versus XSX on some titles, that means less rays will be needing calculated so the overall change in visuals in terms of raytracing could possibly scale quite well. Same way the rumoured Lockheart console should have raytracing but won't need to push as many rays because it won't be pushing anywhere near the same resolution.

 

[Manmademan]

Wait, did they dedicate hardware to the audio similar to the entire jaguar 8 core cpu in the ps4?

Click to shrink...

Yes.

 

[NoUse4AName]

At the end ...both consoles are pretty much the same and the game will look pretty much the same on both consoles. Sonys SSD Solution is crazy fast nobody can deny it and that's a pretty Big Jump for the whole industry it will change a lot of things about how games are designed.

Kudos to MS for XSX GPU and Kudos to SONY for the SSD Solutions Sony with diferent approach....and a pretty good one.

 

[GING-SAMA]

Nice shitpost. If you don't have anything to say then don't.

Click to shrink...

Sorry bro.

Is just I can't imagine next gen game with 40-60 sec of loading time

 

[modiz]

Wait, did they dedicate hardware to the audio similar to the entire jaguar 8 core cpu in the ps4?

Click to shrink...

yep, its capabilities are comparable to the PS4's entire CPU, and developers can use it's performance beyond audio for other processes.

 

[DrKelpo]

God bless DF.

 

[Brohan]

Sorry bro.

Is just I can't imagine next gen game with 40-60 sec of loading time

Click to shrink...

I already addressed this. That wasn't even my point. See my post above.