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DF Direct - PlayStation 5 Reveal Analysis + Reaction!
- Thread starter Sekiro
- Start date
Don't forget to put " G O T T E M" when you use the quote. That'll be great.
For those of you saying 4k is a waste - why? I understand if your point of view is you would rather have 60fps. Fair enough! But some of you seem to be saying they would "rather them use the power for other stuff". I do not get this. 4K is literally more pixels with more detail in the image. Textures are sharper, particle effects are more pronounced, pixel based renderings are more accurate, etc. Its not like 4k is just "less jaggies".
Did you see the DF video where Richard compared Control @ 4K native vs 1440p with DLSS?
People were screaming from the mountaintops on this board demanding 4k60 next-gen endlessly so I'm surprised there isnt more backlash. This place is weird.
I mean, I accept it and I also expect it, but I'm definitely not ok with it š I fuckin hate 30fps but I'm in for some of Sony's stuff sooooo yah
it was always a pipe dream based on the specs that we've known for a while.
4k60 is happening and will happen but it'll not be the standard. Anyone who was expecting it for Horizon was nuts.
Personally I hope more devs use a 1440p base and use the same upscaling solution as PS4 Pro, or at least give the option for it for high frame rate modes.
Because modern upscaling techniques have gotten so good that you wouldn't notice it's not native 4K. You'd still get a sharp image while developers get back more resources they could use towards parts of the game you'd actually notice.
I'm def curious to see it sounds Sony is looking for native 4k 30 in first part games, curious to know if there will be 1440p 60fps performance modes as well.
Can you share the link? I'd like to see it as I'm currently playing Control on my PC
Modern upscalers do a good job with resolution. I disagree they do as good a job with detail. A checkerboarded image is not equivalent to a true 4k image, its just much better than the checkerboard native image.
At the end of the day im asking what you actually want them to use the 'extra power' for if not resolution. Detail is textures and resolution. Particle effects are improved through resolution. Motion blue and SSR are improved through resolution. I just dont see what would be a worthwhile tradeoff. Perhaps more involved raytracing would be worth it, I could see a 1440p checkboard raytraced image look better. But even then remember resolution impacts every image everywhere, whereas raytraced shadows are a nice feature that only show up in some scenes noticeably.
DLSS is not something the PS4 can do though. It runs on the tensor cores, not the GPU shaders, and unless RDNA2 has a huge surprise in store for us we do not have any such thing in RDNA2.
I think people are fine with 4k30, and it'll be a game-by-game bases for 60fps just like it was last gen
My bad its actually internal 1080p with DLSS 2.0 vs 4k native. Skip to ~16:00- https://youtu.be/zCllBRdyEXA
60fps should be standard next gen. There is no excuse for any of the new systems to not hit locked 60fps due to the new specs. If Red Dead Redemption 2 can hit Native 4K and steady 30fps on a Xbox One X with 6tflops, weaker GPU and CPU, are you telling me these new consoles like the PS5 can't at least do a solid 60fps and 4K?
You're in for a surprise.
No it wasn't.
Except there's several console games shown that are hitting native 4K without doing those things.
Also, "only on consoles"? Literally no PC user has ever reduced other settings just to run at a higher resolution?
They are and will give you PC-level graphics at high framerates. Just not at the level of a high-end PC that costs three times as much as the console. Which would basically require actual magic, so if you were expecting that....
There have been direct-feed 4K screenshots released, they're in the thread. The game is either native 4K, or using a new form of reconstruction that has none of the artifacts or blur of previous methods (including DLSS).
Yes. DLSS has artifacts and motion ghosting like other reconstruction methods. They're all good choices in particular contexts, but native rendering isn't totally obsolete.
This right here is so hyperbolic... It's ridiculous. I can't even notice the difference between 30 and 60 fps unless the game is dipping into slideshow territory. Alternating between a 60fps game and a 30 fps game makes no difference to me, and to millions of other players.
Acting like there is no excuse for a game being 30fps is patently ridiculous. You just don't like it.
I should have been clearer - my wish was for games to be at High (+) PC settings at 60 (+) FPS, instead of what seems to be Medium (+/-) PC settings at 30 (+) FPS, and using current techniques to make the image look like 4K to the average eye.
With that being said, I am watching this video where a developer discusses Mark Cerny's presentation on the SSD, and I'm rethinking everything about next gen. It's really fascinating so far, and very eye opening. Especially after watching the Ratchet and Clank reveal. I take back what I said about there not being enough to justify "the biggest generational leap" statement yesterday.
I agree with you that 30fps is fine but how on earth do you not notice the difference? As a kid noticed the difference between 30 and 60 before I even knew what frame rate was. I remember playing Smash and F-Zero and thinking it was so much smoother than other games I was playing at the time
That quote is catching lots of heat, and I can see why he made it. It's ok to be frustrated about games being 30 fps in the year two thousand and twenty, and maybe it is hyperbole, but just because you can't see the difference doesn't mean I can't either, or that I wouldn't greatly prefer 60+ FPS. I'm not sure saying that millions of other people don't care is a great argument. If you gave all those people one month of playing the same game at 30 FPS, and then one month of playing it at 60 FPS, I highly doubt they would all not care either way. My guess is that many would prefer 60 FPS. If all those people don't mind 30 FPS, it's not because they really don't care, but rather that they don't know any better (in my opinion). And I don't mean that in a condescending way, at all. I'll tell you that going from my PC to my console can be a jarring experience. Sure, I can get used to it, but for games like first person shooters, it kind of sucks. With all that being said, and initially feeling like 30 FPS for the games shown was a deal breaker, I'm actually pretty hyped after seeing the SSD presentation as mentioned above.
oh god, you know I could show you gears of war running at 4K and gears 5 running at 1080p and gears five would look a hell of a lot better. Graphics isn't just resolution, far from it
You were quite clear, actually. My twofold response evidently wasn't, so here it is again, more exactly: there are going to be high/native 4K/60fps console games exactly like you're asking for. Not all of them will hit this mark, but that's because you're only buying a $500 machine. If your wish was was to have everything nearly maxed out on every game like you'd spent $1500 on a PC...then it was the unreasonable wish at fault for your disappointment, not the machinery. You can't budget for a 2060 and expect 2080Ti performance.
Chad Cam.
I love these guys.
I love these guys.
They wait because they can.
Seems like an easy bet.
oh horizon def is, but I dont see any AA used on their screenshots
Wait, so in clarifying that I was hoping for High+ (not Ultra) instead of Medium (+/-) PC comparative settings, you are saying I still don't understand that a next gen console isn't going to provide 2080Ti level graphics? I'm confused how you got to that specifically. Again, that's not what I meant, and I clarified. It wasn't meant as an attack on what you said, nor a slight to your knowledge. I do in fact understand what you are saying. Again, I was initially disappointed by what was shown (which looks great) at a supposed 30 FPS, and was hoping for general, across the board (not all) upgrades in graphics, targeting 60 fps. Maybe I'm just tired and should go to bed.
Well. On one hand im on #teamno4K for all the reasons echoed in here. On the other hand, you cant argue with these results. They just blew that unreal demo out of the water.
I think the viability of reconstruction techniques varies massively by the quality of the display being used. I only noticed reconstruction artefacts and TAA ghosting after getting an OLED, for example, as the inherent motion blur in LCDs hid it before.
Yeah they're going to need something applied because atm the speculuar(?) aliasing almost makes it look lower res than it is.
More like a small group of delusional people were screaming and the vast majority explaining to them again and again each generation that the focus will still lie on 30fps. It's a deliberate design choice.
Devs can prioritise:
Resolution over frame rate.
LOD over frame rate.
Ray tracing over frame rate.
Game world size over frame rate.
There's plenty of reasons why games can and will run at 30fps, what you mean is you don't want them to. That's fair enough but implying that every dev should prioritise fps over everything as if 30fps and a better looking game is something to apologise for is crazy.
So is it looking more and more like a pipe dream that AMD have a dlss 2.0 alternative embedded in the consoles?
Because it would certainly be a bullet point I'd be shouting from the rooftops if there was any such thing. Yet nothing is yet to be mentioned
Maybe there's a embargo in place until rdna2 is announced?
Because it would certainly be a bullet point I'd be shouting from the rooftops if there was any such thing. Yet nothing is yet to be mentioned
Maybe there's a embargo in place until rdna2 is announced?
Reminds me of the DualSense reveal. The first lot of pages were very divisive but then a lot of people started saying that after a while the design grew on them. I'm honestly expecting the same with this as it's such a different design from both what people are used to and were expecting.
Well, based on this screenshot I think they should've used at least some.
Dissapointed with native 4k targets, and lack of 60fps. Particularly Ratchet would benefit from going 1440-1620p plus reconstruction and 60fps. All those sparks and particles would look insane at 60fps. I recently just played some Uncharted 4 and its 1440p res looks insanely crisp, add some reconstruction and there is no need for native 4k, same witch ratchet 2016.
Comparing the industry at large to Rockstar seems weird. Yes its not easy to get 4k60 even if you have a strong PC. Its demanding af and games will only get better looking and more demanding.
I don't think many people are demanding 4K/60 on the new consoles, but a 60FPS should at least be an option, most people would be happy for 1080 or 1440 on consoles.