Devs react to PS5 specs - Twitter edition

RoastBeeph · Mar 23, 2020

Gohlad said:
Yeah, these two consoles are exactly like the endless Messi vs. Ronaldo debates.

Who's better Messi (PS5), or Ronaldo (XSX)?

Years later people still argue over that instead of seeing both of them as extraordinary players with their own strong and weak points.

I think it will be pretty clear early on which console is more powerful, similar to XBOne vs PS4. The idea that an SSD speed difference will make up for a sizeable TF and Bandwidth advantage is laughable IMO. We won't know for sure until the games come out but I just don't see logically how PS5 can make up the sheer power gulf between the two consoles, especially when XSX's SSD isn't half bad itself.

Fisty · Mar 23, 2020

RoastBeeph said:
I think it will be pretty clear early on which console is more powerful, similar to XBOne vs PS4. The idea that an SSD speed difference will make up for a sizeable TF and Bandwidth advantage is laughable IMO. We won't know for sure until the games come out but I just don't see logically how PS5 can make up the sheer power gulf between the two consoles, especially when XSX's SSD isn't half bad itself.

It's an 18% gap now vs a 40% gap in 2013, I really don't think it will be as noticeable as you suggest

Liliana · Mar 23, 2020

Stinkles said:
I understand completely why people get emotionally invested in a console platform. When I was a kid, I was an obsessive gamer - and broke - so I usually had to compromise - either by waiting till I could affford something, or by saving money and buying the not-quite-best-thing. Or older, used systems. So I justified it. Sometimes it was easy - I had an MSX when everyone had moved on - but I was getting the best Konami arcade ports - sometimes it was hard - when I had an Atari ST and really would have been better off with an Amiga - but I had things like Starglider, a beloved OS and the weirder bits of the demo scene before Amiga took it over completely. Sometimes it was harder, when I got an Acorn Electron instead of a BBC Micro, or watched the metal keyboard surround unpeel itself from the liquifying glue on my 16k Spectrum with a RAM pack as it heated up beyond even basic safety and quality guarantees.

I personally looked for the advantage in whatever system I had - Vectrex was the only place to play perfect vectorscan games - ColecoVision had fewer games but better graphics than the 2600. I get it. I genuinely understand some of the irrational adherence to a brand or company or format. Hell, I still think HD DVD was a better format than Blu-ray if only for price and the unified (and smooth UI).

But getting emotionally invested in subjective anecdotes from strangers about unknowns and gaps and missing information - would have been a bridge too far for even 14 year old me.

Blast Processing is real, my friends.

Perfection. Should be stickied to every thread.

Sklaary · Mar 23, 2020

Is there a technology that can have the same effect like RT in terms of realistic lighting and is not that HW demanding?
Like a "fake" RT ppl wouldn't see much of a difference to "real" RT.

kostacurtas · Mar 23, 2020

Spreewaldgurke said:
Is there a technology that can have the same effect like RT in terms of realistic lighting and is not that HW demanding?
Like a "fake" RT ppl wouldn't see much of a difference to "real" RT.

If the game doesn't need dynamic lighting you can have baked RT lighting.

This is how the lighting works in GT Sport.

blastprocessor · Mar 23, 2020

Stinkles said:
Blast Processing is real, my friends.

For sure 😁

gofreak · Mar 23, 2020

RoastBeeph said:
I think it will be pretty clear early on which console is more powerful, similar to XBOne vs PS4. The idea that an SSD speed difference will make up for a sizeable TF and Bandwidth advantage is laughable IMO.

I see this being said far more than that argument is actually made.

SSD speed doesn't give you ALU compute.

It might give you advantages in other capabilities, which is what the poster you were replying to was saying - different strengths. I don't see much wrong with saying that. It's not saying that e.g. the SSD will magically give the PS5 GPU more ALU compute.

Sklaary · Mar 23, 2020

kostacurtas said:
If the game doesn't need dynamic lighting you can have baked RT lighting.

This is how the lighting works in GT Sport.

And how much less HW demanding is this technology compared to dynamic RT?

Tiago Rodrigues · Mar 23, 2020

Fisty said:
It's an 18% gap now vs a 40% gap in 2013, I really don't think it will be as noticeable as you suggest

And PS5 has some things playing in its favor. Xbox One had any (hardware wise). It's really not comparable.

kostacurtas · Mar 23, 2020

Spreewaldgurke said:
And how much less HW demanding is this technology compared to dynamic RT?

A lot but I don't think that matters anymore. Both next gen consoles have hardware RT acceleration so developers can implement real time ray tracing.

chris 1515 · Mar 23, 2020

gofreak said:
I see this being said far more than that argument is actually made.

SSD speed doesn't give you ALU compute.

It might give you advantages in other capabilities, which is what the poster you were replying to was saying - different strengths. I don't see much wrong with saying that. It's not saying that e.g. the SSD will magically give the PS5 GPU more ALU compute.

I think we will begin to see a higer usage of Alembic cache or animation with tree interpolation next gen because tou can have complex clothes or fluid simulation baked.

Adam: The evolution of Alembic support in Unity | Unity Blog

Read how Adam facial mocap and cloth simulation got into Unity, producing highly realistic CG humans, all rendered at 30 FPS in real time. To accomplish this, Neill Blomkamp and Oats Studios made great use of our Alembic Importer, Timeline, vertex sharing, and other standard features. I’m SerEn...

blogs.unity3d.com

Or this sort of thing. I think we will see out of textures or geometry tons of baked data of impossible effect to do in realtime.

Doom Eternal analysis: how id Tech 7 pushes current-gen consoles to the limit

Doom 2016 revitalised the fortunes of both id software and the classic Doom franchise, delivering a phenomenal, exhilar…

www.eurogamer.net

Like here nut with more complex effect.

Sklaary · Mar 23, 2020

kostacurtas said:
A lot but I don't think that matters anymore. Both next gen consoles have hardware RT acceleration so developers can implement real time ray tracing.

I thought devs could substitute real RT with fake RT to make max the experince and safe resources cz real RT is still very demanding

Haint · Mar 23, 2020

The GPU deltas will all but assuredly translate into 1800p Vs. native 4K, a largely pointless comparison in a post TAA world where 99% of people are sitting 8 - 10+ feet from a 55" or 65" display. Similarly, Sony's SSD gains are unlikely to be some kind of magical inflection point. There's probably nothing 5 - 9GB/s can do that 2.5 - 5GB/s can't, in real world scenarios. Even if there is, it will only present in the handful of PS5 exclusive. Cross gen, Budget PC's, and Lockhart development considerations are going to have a much more profound effect on what you see and play than any PS5 Vs. Series X differences.

Alexandros · Mar 23, 2020

Liabe Brave said:
I'd bet there will be higher-performimg PC hardware before the consoles even launch. That was true the last two gens. Even without unified shaders, I saw benchmarks for Call of Duty 2 where PC was outdoing Xbox 360. And by the time PS3 launched, the 8800 was out and untouchable by either console.

I owned an 8800GT, I think it was the best value in a graphics card, maybe ever.

NaturaNonFacisSaltus · Mar 23, 2020

Liabe Brave said:
AMD has already said PS5 is an APU, not chiplets.

Did they specifically mentioned a monolithic design ? I might have chiplet PTSD because Mark Cerny did drawn something very chiplet-ty looking :)
I guess a chiplet-based CPU+GPU+IO die could still be called an APU ? I would see a point in better binning for the GPU, but it would make a terrible layout for the GDDR6 controllers =D

nib95 · Mar 23, 2020

Haint said:
The GPU deltas will all but assuredly translate into 1800p Vs. native 4K, a largely pointless comparison in a post TAA world where 99% of people are sitting 8 - 10+ feet from a 55" or 65" display. Similarly, Sony's SSD gains are unlikely to be some kind of magical inflection point. There's probably nothing 5 - 9GB/s can do that 2.5 - 5GB/s can't, in real world scenarios. Even if there is, it will only present in the handful of PS5 exclusive. Cross gen, Budget PC's, and Lockhart development considerations are going to have a much more profound effect on what you see and play.

I think it'll actually be higher than even 1800p. My guess is 2016p (a 16:9 resolution that is divisible by 8, and roughly 15% fewer pixels than 4k/2160p, to account for the Tflop difference). Or 1944p vs 2160p at a more worse case. But even then I'm expecting variable resolutions and PS5 versions to drop to those resolutions on occasion.

I doubt that difference in resolution will be very noticeable though in real world scenarios though, especially with checkerboarding and other methods in place that already bridge the gap.

But yea, I'm expecting multiplatform games to have a slight resolution advantage on XSX, but PS5 versions to have slightly less pop in, better load times, and slightly better asset streaming. Either way, I don't expect differences to be major.

I think first-party exclusives will probably be more likely to highlight the benefits and advantages of either system.

Lady Gaia · Mar 23, 2020

NaturaNonFacisSaltus said:
Did they specifically mentioned a monolithic design ? I might have chiplet PTSD because Mark Cerny did drawn something very chiplet-ty looking :)

He referred to an architectural block diagram, which may be vaguely related to physical layout but does not remotely suggest that chiplets are being used, nor would there be any good reason to do so as they'd drive manufacturing costs up with no benefits that leap to mind.

foolishoptimist · Mar 23, 2020

nib95 said:
I think it'll actually be higher than even 1800p. My guess is 2016p (a 16:9 resolution that is divisible by 8, and roughly 15% fewer pixels than 4k/2160p, to account for the Tflop difference). Or 1944p vs 2160p at a more worse case. But even then I'm expecting variable resolutions and PS5 versions to drop to those resolutions on occasion.

I doubt that difference in resolution will be very noticeable though in real world scenarios though, especially with checkerboarding and other methods in place that already bridge the gap.

But yea, I'm expecting multiplatform games to have a slight resolution advantage on XSX, but to have less slightly less pop in, better load times, and slightly better asset streaming on PS5. Either way, I don't expect differences to be major.

I think first-party exclusives will probably be more likely to highlight the benefits and advantages of either system.

This is what I'm expecting.

ty_hot · Mar 23, 2020

Haint said:
The GPU deltas will all but assuredly translate into 1800p Vs. native 4K, a largely pointless comparison in a post TAA world where 99% of people are sitting 8 - 10+ feet from a 55" or 65" display. Similarly, Sony's SSD gains are unlikely to be some kind of magical inflection point. There's probably nothing 5 - 9GB/s can do that 2.5 - 5GB/s can't, in real world scenarios. Even if there is, it will only present in the handful of PS5 exclusive. Cross gen, Budget PC's, and Lockhart development considerations are going to have a much more profound effect on what you see and play than any PS5 Vs. Series X differences.

If by handful you mean a few dozens... yeah, only a handful of PS5 games will use the extra SSD speed properly.

Im playing AC Origins and while it is a nice game, comparing it with Horizon is just not possible. They are on absolute different levels when it comes down to graphics and gameplay refinement. Despite AC being an AAA game, it just cant reach the quality of first party games. Rockstar (and CDPR?) is the only 3rd party to achieve graphical quality similar to first party devs.

gundamkyoukai · Mar 23, 2020

gofreak said:
I see this being said far more than that argument is actually made.

SSD speed doesn't give you ALU compute.

It might give you advantages in other capabilities, which is what the poster you were replying to was saying - different strengths. I don't see much wrong with saying that. It's not saying that e.g. the SSD will magically give the PS5 GPU more ALU compute.

Yep .
What also going to be interesting is first parties for Sony will be able to get accustom to the better ram management faster and what come with it.
Since they will only be making games for PS5 , i really do expect there games to really show off the system early on .

Unkindled · Mar 23, 2020

I think games will be on 4k on both consoles as standard but Xbox will run at higher settings than PS5 be it ray tracing or textures etc.

ShapeGSX · Mar 23, 2020

Lady Gaia said:
He referred to an architectural block diagram, which may be vaguely related to physical layout but does not remotely suggest that chiplets are being used, nor would there be any good reason to do so as they'd drive manufacturing costs up with no benefits that leap to mind.

Agreed.

With a smaller die size than the Xbox Series X, There's no reason at all to use chiplets. It costs extra die area and packaging cost is increased.

PJV3 · Mar 23, 2020

Is it going to be easier for Sony to up the power in a mid gen refresh than it would be for Microsoft to update their SSD?

Haint · Mar 23, 2020

ty_hot said:
If by handful you mean a few dozens... yeah, only a handful of PS5 games will use the extra SSD speed properly.

With ballooning budgets and timeline's (and potentially unions and/or crunch time crackdowns forming during the coming generation) we will be lucky to see 5 or 6 genuinely AAA first party exclusives the entire generation.

chris 1515 · Mar 23, 2020

Unkindled said:
I think games will be on 4k on both consoles as standard but Xbox will run at higher settings than PS5 be it ray tracing or textures etc.

I suppose Xbox will have better framerate(10%) or a little bit better resolution(10%) and probably better raytracing sometimes.

Texture quality is not really coming from settings, the most important is streaming and RAM size and we will have on the two consoles perfect texture for 4k 1 texel per pixel. I am not even sure you need an NVME drive to have it or maybe a low-speed NVME drive. All console will have it, same with geometry and with the geometry engine/mesh shading we will probably have out of great culling tons of procedural geometry generate at runtime.

PS5 Will Allow Devs to Use 'Incredible' Texel Density for Highly Detailed Visuals, Says Town of Light Studio - PlayStation LifeStyle

The Town of Light dev LKA has expressed its excitement about PS5 specs and said that the console will allow "incredible" texel density.

www.playstationlifestyle.net

PS5's specifications are incredibly exciting – particularly for us is the additional graphical power and inclusion of ray-tracing architecture. Our studio has come a long way over four years and Martha Is Dead will strive for photorealism. We're excited to see the next-generation hardware incoming to support us bringing our vision to players.

We worked a lot in order to use the highest-resolution textures as possible also on PS4; nonetheless, PS5 will allow us to use an incredible texel density, up to 4096px/m – that means the visual will be fully detailed also in higher resolutions. It's one of the most important advances in visual capacity that we were waiting for.

It means you can't improve texture higher than that at 4k... You only need texture with better resolution at more than 4k...

I think it begins with current-gen Doom eternal using it for tons of thinds but we will have tons of Alembic animation or cache effect with things we can't do in realtime like crazy cloth physics animation or other animation and crazy effect. And with better effect because we have streaming ability and RAM size is bigger.

Adam: The evolution of Alembic support in Unity | Unity Blog

Read how Adam facial mocap and cloth simulation got into Unity, producing highly realistic CG humans, all rendered at 30 FPS in real time. To accomplish this, Neill Blomkamp and Oats Studios made great use of our Alembic Importer, Timeline, vertex sharing, and other standard features. I’m SerEn...

blogs.unity3d.com

Here they use for cloth physics played like animation, you can bake very complex effect using it. I suppose it will go much further than on current-gen Doom eternal.

gundamkyoukai · Mar 23, 2020

Haint said:
With ballooning budgets and timeline's (and potentially unions and/or crunch time crackdowns forming during the coming generation) we will be lucky to see 5 or 6 genuinely AAA first party exclusives the entire generation.

Your joking right .
We will see more than that in the first 2 years.

EVIL · Mar 23, 2020

RoastBeeph said:
I think it will be pretty clear early on which console is more powerful, similar to XBOne vs PS4. The idea that an SSD speed difference will make up for a sizeable TF and Bandwidth advantage is laughable IMO. We won't know for sure until the games come out but I just don't see logically how PS5 can make up the sheer power gulf between the two consoles, especially when XSX's SSD isn't half bad itself.

That "sheer powergulf" you mention is only 2TF, and I can guarantee you that you will not see the difference between a 10 TF game and a 12 TF one, Remember, the gap this gen is smaller than the gap was between the PS4 and XB1.

chris 1515 · Mar 23, 2020

EVIL said:
That "sheer powergulf" you mention is only 2TF, and I can guarantee you that you will not see the difference between a 10 TF game and a 12 TF one, Remember, the gap this gen is smaller than the gap was between the PS4 and XB1.

This is the smaller gap in a console generation between a PS console and an Xbox console.

gundamkyoukai · Mar 23, 2020

EVIL said:
That "sheer powergulf" you mention is only 2TF, and I can guarantee you that you will not see the difference between a 10 TF game and a 12 TF one, Remember, the gap this gen is smaller than the gap was between the PS4 and XB1.

Yep and people forget it was not only TF the PS4 and XBX had other advantages over the other systems in that point in times.
Where for these 2 systems everything is closer than it has ever been .

Haint · Mar 23, 2020

gundamkyoukai said:
Your joking right .
We will see more than that in the first 2 years.

I would be very surprised to see more than 1 or 2 "PS5 Exclusives" within the first 2 years. These days I think Sony's much less interested in moving hardware and much more interested in selling 20+ million copies of Spiderman 2.

Pat002 · Mar 23, 2020

Haint said:
I would be very surprised to see more than 1 or 2 "PS5 Exclusives" within the first 2 years. These days I think Sony's much less interested in moving hardware and much more interested in selling 20+ million copies of Spiderman 2.

Prepare for the first year then. The exclusives they will have will be more in number and bigger in importance than what Pa4 had.

gundamkyoukai · Mar 23, 2020

Haint said:
I would be very surprised to see more than 1 or 2 "PS5 Exclusives" within the first 2 years. These days I think Sony's much less interested in moving hardware and much more interested in selling 20+ million copies of Spiderman 2.

You do know they now have a good amount of 10 million plus sellers right ?
You will see sequels to HZD , GOW , Spidey in the in the first 2 years along with the other new stuff they coming up with .
All of that will move hardware even more so if they at $399.

Bruceleeroy · Mar 23, 2020

Stinkles said:
I understand completely why people get emotionally invested in a console platform. When I was a kid, I was an obsessive gamer - and broke - so I usually had to compromise - either by waiting till I could affford something, or by saving money and buying the not-quite-best-thing. Or older, used systems. So I justified it. Sometimes it was easy - I had an MSX when everyone had moved on - but I was getting the best Konami arcade ports - sometimes it was hard - when I had an Atari ST and really would have been better off with an Amiga - but I had things like Starglider, a beloved OS and the weirder bits of the demo scene before Amiga took it over completely. Sometimes it was harder, when I got an Acorn Electron instead of a BBC Micro, or watched the metal keyboard surround unpeel itself from the liquifying glue on my 16k Spectrum with a RAM pack as it heated up beyond even basic safety and quality guarantees.

I personally looked for the advantage in whatever system I had - Vectrex was the only place to play perfect vectorscan games - ColecoVision had fewer games but better graphics than the 2600. I get it. I genuinely understand some of the irrational adherence to a brand or company or format. Hell, I still think HD DVD was a better format than Blu-ray if only for price and the unified (and smooth UI).

But getting emotionally invested in subjective anecdotes from strangers about unknowns and gaps and missing information - would have been a bridge too far for even 14 year old me.

Blast Processing is real, my friends.

Bro real talk.
You guys have made a phenomenal machine. Phenomenal.
Its so phenomenal that I'm pissed. Why?
Why in Colonel Sanders on a toaster strudel is there no VR support. I know you were invited to those meetings Stinkles. Don't lie!
I spent wayyyy too much money on an insane PC - WAY TOO MUCH! (Its also for work too but I can use Notepad anywhere damnit)
I could have bought 5 of new systems for what I put into this thing. All you gents had to do was add 3rd party VR support (Is that really so hard)
I could have saved so much money.

DAMN YOU STINKLES! I am holding you personally responsible!!

Haint · Mar 23, 2020

gundamkyoukai said:
You do know they now have a good amount of 10 million plus sellers right ?
You will see sequels to HZD , GOW , Spidey in the in the first 2 years along with the other new stuff they coming up with .
All of that will move hardware even more so if they at $399.

I am aware, which was exactly my point. They have that taste for selling 15 and 20+ million copies, why would they make Horizon 2 or Spiderman 2 PS5 exclusive and only sell 3-5 million units for the foreseeable future? That's just bad business. They'll be cross-gen to move 3-5 million on PS5 and 10+ million on PS4 simultaneously. They won't even be able to produce enough PS5 units to offset that kind of gap in potential userbase.

nib95 · Mar 23, 2020

Unkindled said:
I think games will be on 4k on both consoles as standard but Xbox will run at higher settings than PS5 be it ray tracing or textures etc.

I doubt that, that doesn't even happen now with current gen systems and the subsequent differences between Microsoft and Sony systems (which are even greater). Its much easier to scale with resolution than to have actual different graphical settings etc

gundamkyoukai · Mar 23, 2020

Haint said:
I am aware, which was exactly my point. They have that taste for selling 15 and 20+ million copies, why would they make Horizon 2 or Spiderman 2 PS5 exclusive and only sell 3-5 million units for the foreseeable future? That's just bad business. They'll be cross-gen to move 3-5 million on PS5 and 10+ million on PS4.

Because they will sell 10 million plus on PS5 and also move hardware .
User base numbers alone don't determine sales .
Consoles software always sell better on the newer systems even more so early on .
If PS5 sell like PS4 they would sell over 18 million units in the first year .
So saying there games going to sell 3-5 million units for the foreseeable future on PS5 make no sense.

Manmademan · Mar 23, 2020

Haint said:
I am aware, which was exactly my point. They have that taste for selling 15 and 20+ million copies, why would they make Horizon 2 or Spiderman 2 PS5 exclusive and only sell 3-5 million units for the foreseeable future? That's just bad business. They'll be cross-gen to move 3-5 million on PS5 and 10+ million on PS4 simultaneously. They won't even be able to produce enough PS5 units to offset that kind of gap in potential userbase.

Moving systems is more important than moving units, for first party software. They're showcases for the platform, meant to show what the hardware can do and draw users in. That software tends to have fairly long tails as well- Bloodborne still gets mentioned as "the" reason to own a PS4 and that game released in 2015.

The PS4 is very close to the end of its lifespan. It has tens of millions of units still in the tank, but these units are likely selling to price conscious gamers in western territories and users in developing areas. Neither of these userbases is particularly high spend.

Sony isn't going to abandon the PS4 in terms of development ( I can see Spidey 2 still being PS4), but I'd expect that the really ambitious stuff (Horizon, Demon's Remake) would be PS5 only. This is especially true if as expected Microsoft simply does not make any next gen exclusive software over the next couple of years. The comparisons between the PS5 and the XsX will be extremely striking.

Haint · Mar 23, 2020

gundamkyoukai said:
Because they will sell 10 million plus on PS5 and also move hardware .
User base numbers alone don't determine sales .
Consoles software always sell better on the newer systems even more so early on .
If PS5 sell like PS4 they would sell over 18 million units in the first year .
So saying there games going to sell 3-5 million units for the foreseeable future on PS5 make no sense.

If they could snap their fingers and magically will warehouses full of 50 million units you might have a point, but production capacity is finite and it's not uncommon for consoles to remain perpetually sold out the first year or two. There is a hard cap on what they can create, regardless of demand. I'd say it's around 15 million, and that's a normal year, not a great depression Corona year. You are proposing 60%+ attached ratios, which would be extreme even by flagship Nintendo standards which face virtually no third party competition. Expecting that out of a Horizon 2 or an original Gorilla IP, knowing they'll be pitted directly against a new AC, CoD, etc... is almost delusionally hopeful.

gundamkyoukai · Mar 23, 2020

Manmademan said:
Moving systems is more important than moving units, for first party software. They're showcases for the platform, meant to show what the hardware can do and draw users in. That software tends to have fairly long tails as well- Bloodborne still gets mentioned as "the" reason to own a PS4 and that game released in 2015.

The PS4 is very close to the end of its lifespan. It has tens of millions of units still in the tank, but these units are likely selling to price conscious gamers in western territories and users in developing areas. Neither of these userbases is particularly high spend.

Sony isn't going to abandon the PS4 in terms of development ( I can see Spidey 2 still being PS4), but I'd expect that the really ambitious stuff (Horizon, Demon's Remake) would be PS5 only. This is especially true if as expected Microsoft simply does not make any next gen exclusive software over the next couple of years. The comparisons between the PS5 and the XsX will be extremely striking.

Spidey 2 will be PS5 only for certain .
The HDD was what was holding back the game and i expect it will be one of the games to really show off the system .
Spidey 2 bundles will move million of units come 2022.

gundamkyoukai · Mar 23, 2020

Haint said:
If they could snap their fingers and magically will warehouses full of 50 million units you might have a point, but production capacity is finite and it's not uncommon for consoles to remain perpetually sold out the first year or two. There is a hard cap on what they can create, regardless of demand. I'd say it's around 15 million, and that's a normal year, not a great depression Corona year. You are proposing 60%+ attached ratios, which would be extreme even by Nintendo standards which face virtually no third party competition.

I ma not proposing 60%+ attached ratios because the games don't sell 10 million in 1 month .
It took HZD over 1 year to sell 10 million ( should be shorter on PS5)
As for you number of system per year that number is to low.
Just look at PS4 numbers they sold per year and you can see they can go over that 15 million number easy ( in fact one year they sold 20 million)
In the first 14 month of PS4 life they sold 18.5 million.

Edit damn double post .

Manmademan · Mar 23, 2020

gundamkyoukai said:
Spidey 2 will be PS5 only for certain .
The HDD was what was holding back the game and i expect it will be one of the games to really show off the system .
Spidey 2 bundles will move million of units come 2022.

Spidey I'm not so sure about. Yes, there was the webswinging video that we've all seen. There's definitely an advantage there.
At it's heart though Spidey is a close quarters combat brawler, with some flashy scripted set pieces in between. You could do a sequel on PS4 and "boost" it on PS5 and still satisfy a lot of people.

Something like Horizon 2 which would be massive sprawling open world, or Demon's which is a souls game with all the crazy nonsense that comes along with that would benefit a lot more from platform exclusivity. Recall that "flight" in Horizon was something that the devs wanted in, but it was straight up impossible given the HDD.

edit: note also that unlike the sequels that came after it, Demon's Souls was not a single open world. It was 5 separate zones linked via a central hub. Now imagine with the speed the SSD (and associated hardware) grants the PS5, one could seamlessly transition straight from one world/archstone to another without jumping back and forth to the Hub- or find "shortcuts" that could dump you straight from say world 1-2 to 4-3. Complete gamechanger with that one.

gundamkyoukai · Mar 23, 2020

Manmademan said:
Spidey I'm not so sure about. Yes, there was the webswinging video that we've all seen. There's definitely an advantage there.
At it's heart though Spidey is a close quarters combat brawler, with some flashy scripted set pieces in between. You could do a sequel on PS4 and "boost" it on PS5 and still satisfy a lot of people.

Something like Horizon 2 which would be massive sprawling open world, or Demon's which is a souls game with all the crazy nonsense that comes along with that would benefit a lot more from platform exclusivity. Recall that "flight" in Horizon was something that the devs wanted in, but it was straight up impossible given the HDD.

If you watch the GDC break down you would know how much trouble the HDD cause them and how they had to limit stuff.
It also effect there pipeline\workload and all of that will change with the SSD.
Spidey 2 will benefit much more from the SSD than demon souls .

Fisty · Mar 23, 2020

They would have games announced past June if they were going to release anything else for PS4

Liabe Brave · Mar 23, 2020

NaturaNonFacisSaltus said:
Did they specifically mentioned a monolithic design ? I might have chiplet PTSD because Mark Cerny did drawn something very chiplet-ty looking :)

The slide also showed the I/O block as much bigger than the entire rest of the silicon combined, do you think that's accurate?

It was an explanatory PowerPoint, not a chip layout blueprint.

chris 1515 said:
I think it begins with current-gen Doom eternal using it for tons of thinds but we will have tons of Alembic animation or cache effect with things we can't do in realtime like crazy cloth physics animation or other animation and crazy effect.

There will surely be a lot of this, but DOOM Eternal isn't the beginning. Metro famously used it for deshrouding a vehicle. And Ryse had it at launch for complex water waves.

Haint said:
I would be very surprised to see more than 1 or 2 "PS5 Exclusives" within the first 2 years.

You may see more than 2 at launch. The PS4 was supposed to have 4. Half got delayed, but all came out within the first year. (I'm assuming you're referring to big AAA exclusives only. There will definitely be more than 2 exclusives period at launch.)

Haint · Mar 23, 2020

gundamkyoukai said:
I ma not proposing 60%+ attached ratios because the games don't sell 10 million in 1 month .
It took HZD over 1 year to sell 10 million ( should be shorter on PS5)
As for you number of system per year that number is to low.
Just look at PS4 numbers they sold per year and you can see they can go over that 15 million number easy ( in fact one year they sold 20 million)
In the first 14 month of PS4 life they sold 18.5 million.

Edit damn double post .

I don't really follows sales, but 18 million in 14 months is actually shockingly close to my 15 million 12/mo estimate. IIRC PS4 was effectively perpetually sold out that first year, suggesting that was production capacity. I think PS5 exclusives will be limited to smaller scale/budget third party developed titles like a potential Bloodborne 2 or Bluepoint's project, and smaller internal stuff like a new Ratchet or Knack.

Manmademan · Mar 23, 2020

gundamkyoukai said:
If you watch the GDC break down you would know how much trouble the HDD cause them and how they had to limit stuff.
It also effect there pipeline\workload and all of that will change with the SSD.
Spidey 2 will benefit much more from the SSD than demon souls .

see the above edit re: Demon's souls. The SSD could change that game from the hub and spoke model to a true open world if the devs were ambitious enough with it.

gundamkyoukai · Mar 23, 2020

Manmademan said:
see the above edit re: Demon's souls. The SSD could change that game from the hub and spoke model to a true open world if the devs were ambitious enough with it.

For spidey 2 you can have Miles and Peter at different parts of the city and switch on the fly .
You can have a fight with Mysterio and he changing the environment every few secs ( not possible on PS4)
Or the fights can be much bigger in scale which was problem for GOW.
Like a dev i was speaking to said the possibilities endless now.

Bashteee · Mar 23, 2020

nib95 said:
I doubt that difference in resolution will be very noticeable though in real world scenarios though, especially with checkerboarding and other methods in place that already bridge the gap.

Yeah, I don't expect there to be a huge difference. For people like me, who are still playing on a 1080p TV, I assume there won't be any noticeable difference.

nib95 said:
But yea, I'm expecting multiplatform games to have a slight resolution advantage on XSX, but PS5 versions to have slightly less pop in, better load times, and slightly better asset streaming. Either way, I don't expect differences to be major.

If either one of next gen consoles is going to have any noticeable pop in, I will fucking YEET that shit out of my window. There won't be any fucking technical excuses for that shit.

Bad_Boy · Mar 23, 2020

I want to see bloody roar transformations come back. But this time in real time, not just model swaps.

sirap · Mar 23, 2020

I'm just ready for the death of elevator loads and forced exposition.

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