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Oct 25, 2017
9,091
The randos who are being overshadowed by the cheater, might give a shit
Can't they just leave if they aren't having fun? Explain, explicitly, the harm done to any other person by his actions, please. Then, if you can make the case for that harm, please convince us that it is a large enough harm that the appropriate punishment is a complete ban from the game.

Outside of affecting other players negatively (which has not been adequately established), or affecting some kind of communal economy (which is not the case in Anthem), it is literally impossible for a person to "do harm" or engage in any immoral activity by engaging in exploits inherently present in a PvE video game. If you own it legally, nothing you can do within the strictures of the game code can reasonably be considered harmful or "wrong."
 
Last edited:

Drencrom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,645
SWE
How the fuck can you get banned in a PvE game for playing efficiently and using strats/exploits that are in the game?
 

panda-zebra

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,737
I just read that he did a similar exploit to quitting on the swarm tyrant in another activity, one that you can solo, and streamed it. Now the source is iffy (youtube comments, lol).

So anyone know if this is the case? Did he stream himself repeatedly earning MWs by shutting down the game or quitting to menu just as a mission with a guaranteed MW ended, to farm the once (or thrice) daily guaranteed drop? I don't think this happened, but it'd be interesting to know. Apparently this exploit is still live now.

Lmao what!? GG Bioware, But you guys don't know how to make games anymore.

Read through this whole thread and couldn't believe people defending this. I almost spit out my coffee in some of the defending replies... just made me laugh.

I mean are you guys a fan of this game or being paid by Ea? Really pathetic to defend.


So happy I didn't buy this pos game. I hope after Anthem, BioWare is dead and buried.
People will defend anything on ERA, but still, that's no excuse for your outright shitty attitude to BioWare here. You wish them dead and burred? Yikes.
 

Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,908
How the fuck can you get banned in a PvE game for playing efficiently and using strats/exploits that are in the game?

When this happened in SWTOR, it at least made a small bit of sense due to their being a player economy. Anthem doesn't have any of that. Gotta protect that future microtransaction potential revenue or some shit I guess.
 

Cube001

Member
Dec 7, 2017
92
I wonder if anyone of his defenders will admit he was cheating and they just want him given a pass?

I think you're missing the point here. It doesn't make any difference whether he was cheating and violated the TOS or not. Banning someone "permanently" , when he is one of your very few supporters that actually likes the game and marketing it for free, is plain stupid, especially given the circumstances and the lack of any real impact on the "game economy".

The media and the public butchered the game even prior to its release, and now they're doing it to themselves.

For what it's worth, I don't find anything wrong with what he did, and a permaban is just unexplainable. I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that he did something that actually calls for a permaban.
 
Jan 20, 2019
10,681
Yes it is

And it should be a discretionary decision anyways. They should have had a discussion about it and made lemonade out of the lemon

Instead they permabanned a player that spend time and money spotlighting their broken ass game.

But keep towing that TOS line by all means
Yes, it is.

It's not the streamers fault that BioWare's QA department has been asleep for the past five years, BioWare shipped the game with the exploit, it's their fucking fault and they should own up to it and patch the game like Bungie did with the Destiny exploit.


You peopel need to learn what tos means.

This does not mean im in favour of the ban.
 

Grimace McRib

Member
Oct 27, 2017
426
Cincinnati, OH
Really dumb on their part. They'd have a leg to stand on if there were races to getting prepped for real endgame races, or PvP but this makes zero sense. I really want to see the game succeed and get supported, but this isn't how you do that.
 
Nov 14, 2017
4,928
The randos who are being overshadowed by the cheater, might give a shit
The wipe farm and quit farm both required everyone in the group to participate.
You peopel need to learn what tos means.

This does not mean im in favour of the ban.
So, you're not in favour of the ban, you're just defending EA's right to ban? Then what are you even arguing for? Nobody is arguing that EA doesn't have the right to ban people from their games, just that in this case it's stupid for them to do so.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
Keep towing the 'it doesnt hurt anyone so its okay" line. I hear that can be used all sorts of legal defenses.
What does legality have to do with the evaluating the logic behind such a decision on bioware's part? The fuck? People are reaching hard to defend this and I really dont understand why.
 
Nov 14, 2017
4,928
What does legality have to do with the evaluating the logic behind such a decision on bioware's part? The fuck? People are reaching hard to defend this and I really dont understand why.
They are being dishonest to avoid the actual argument. Their position is that EA has the right to ban people because it's in their TOS, which nobody is arguing against. Obviously developers can have whatever policies they want in their TOS. The argument everyone is actually making is that the ban is stupid in this circumstance, so it shouldn't be TOS.
 

Eumi

Member
Nov 3, 2017
3,518
To use a D&D reference, whats the difference if I give myself +3 gear while everyone who plays legitimately has +1? We are all going to get to the same place eventually right?
Ok, so, I dm for a group of my friends every now and again, so I feel the need to point out just how asanine this comparison is.

Firstly, that's not a good analogy. This player didn't hack the game, they exploited it. There is a vast difference.

To translate this system over to DnD, you'd have to have it be a player exploiting something the dm has set up (not a game rule, as only the dm has power to "ban" people here), like, say, they created an enemy that respawns each day and always drops a high value item, and one player starts resting each time and repeating to farm that item.

In that situation, if a player started to exploit something I set up, the last fucking thing I would do is say that they could never play with us again. Instead, I would use the power I have over the game to alter it, change something that stopped them from exploiting my setting. I have the power to do that, so for me to kick someone out of the campaign instead of just altering would make me a huge dick. It would likely put a dampner over the whole campaign, honestly. I mean, who the hell wants a dm that gets mad and kicks you out over something like that? The whole group would probably be having less fun, as they're now having to walk on eggshells around me. And if people then stop coming to the sessions, then hey, I've killed that campaign. Good job me.

In this case, BioWare need to patch this. Reacting the way they have is just antagonising their playerbase for the mistakes that they themselves have made.
 

TheLastOne

Member
Oct 25, 2017
455
I am a strong believer that if something is in a game, it isn't cheating.

Things he was doing are things people have done in loot based games forever.

The only one that might be considered cheating is using the Storm Ultimate bug, but that was known to the devs before release, so it's on them.
 

Yasumi

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,570
The randos who are being overshadowed by the cheater, might give a shit
The "cheater's" strength isn't going to have any discernible influence on the randos he might play with. To the randos, it would be exactly the same as playing with someone who got the weapon via the Bioware Approved™ method. Nobody's going to give a shit, except Bioware apparently.
 

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
Exploiting a game bug results in bans in most MMO's, it's a normal thing, a rule all the games have. Doesn't matter if you told the developer about it, if you then proceeded to keep doing it. Back in the day Square banned hundreds of gamers in Final Fantasy XI for taking advantage of an exploit - gamers discovered one merchant bought an item back for more money than the same merchant sold it for. Anyone who racked up lots of money from doing that got banned.
 

TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island
I am a strong believer that if something is in a game, it isn't cheating.

Things he was doing are things people have done in loot based games forever.

The only one that might be considered cheating is using the Storm Ultimate bug, but that was known to the devs before release, so it's on them.
Because it's not cheating it's the devs faults for putting it in the game.

A exploit is pulling your LAN cable in the crota raid fight. Not what Gladd did.

If that's not what BioWare intended the player to do, maybe they should implement new ways to earn rewards ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
Nov 14, 2017
4,928
Exploiting a game bug results in bans in most MMO's, it's a normal thing, a rule all the games have. Doesn't matter if you told the developer about it, if you then proceeded to keep doing it. Back in the day Square banned hundreds of gamers in Final Fantasy XI for taking advantage of an exploit - gamers discovered one merchant bought an item back for more money than the same merchant sold it for. Anyone who racked up lots of money from doing that got banned.
Read the thread. Schlooters aren't MMOs. They don't have player economies like in MMOs, which means farming glitches doesn't have any impact on other players. No other schlooter bans players for farming like that, they just patch if they think it's having too much impact and move on.
 

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
Read the thread. Schlooters aren't MMOs. They don't have player economies like in MMOs, which means farming glitches doesn't have any impact on other players. No other schlooter bans players for farming like that, they just patch if they think it's having too much impact and move on.
I'm not talking about farming, I'm talking about the legitimate game bug he exploited (spamming Storm Ultimate) to wipe out bosses super fast, a bug that can even cause other things in the game to start messing up, one side effect being the UI getting stuck onscreen. It doesn't matter if there's no economy yet to be affected, it's taking advantage of a glitch to wipe out bosses much more quickly than designed, which can take away some of the fun of other players in your group. And as a streamer, he was showing thousands of other players how to do it.
 
Nov 14, 2017
4,928
I'm not talking about farming, I'm talking about the legitimate game bug he exploited (spamming Storm Ultimate) to wipe out bosses super fast, a bug that can even cause other things in the game to start messing up, one side effect being the UI getting stuck onscreen. It doesn't matter if there's no economy yet to be affected, it's taking advantage of a glitch to wipe out bosses much more quickly than designed, which can take away some of the fun of other players in your group. And as a streamer, he was showing thousands of other players how to do it.
That bug had been in the game since the private alpha, and no other game in this genre bans players for exploiting similar glitches. So, just to pre-empt you if you're a TOSer, sure it might be against the terms, but it's stupid if EA decides that it is.
 

molnizzle

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,695
I'm not talking about farming, I'm talking about the legitimate game bug he exploited (spamming Storm Ultimate) to wipe out bosses super fast, a bug that can even cause other things in the game to start messing up, one side effect being the UI getting stuck onscreen. It doesn't matter if there's no economy yet to be affected, it's taking advantage of a glitch to wipe out bosses much more quickly than designed, which can take away some of the fun of other players in your group. And as a streamer, he was showing thousands of other players how to do it.
Sounds like a bug BioWare should have fixed after it became widely known during the private beta.

It's not the responsibility of the players to determine what is or isn't allowed. If it's possible in the game, it's possible in the game. The onus is on the developer to fix the shit in a timely manor.

It's really blowing my mind that I have to repeatedly explain this.

Oh, and the fact that this is a PvE shooter with no trading or item economy is absolutely relevant. Anthem isn't an MMO. BioWare should be taking pointers from Borderlands, Destiny, or The Division. Not fucking FFXI.
 

Deleted member 19996

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,897
Don't care if there is no PvP. Exploiting in an online only game is bannable. Plus, I would ban him just for that YouTube thumbnail. Vomit.
 

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
That bug had been in the game since the private alpha, and no other game in this genre bans players for exploiting similar glitches. So, just to pre-empt you if you're a TOSer, sure it might be against the terms, but it's stupid if EA decides that it is.
"No other game in this genre bans players" - it is an mmo whether you think it is or not. But even discounting that, claiming that there is a new genre with only a few games in it, let's go with that. One of them, Warframe, bans people for exploiting bugs. One of those bugs that resulted in lots of bans was one where someone could level up their weapons super fast, which is even less affecting other players than this one.
 

nekkid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,823
I am a strong believer that if something is in a game, it isn't cheating.

Things he was doing are things people have done in loot based games forever.

The only one that might be considered cheating is using the Storm Ultimate bug, but that was known to the devs before release, so it's on them.

I agree. And that goes for PvE or PvP. If it's in the game it's there to be exploited - and if the dev doesn't like it then they need to fix it.
 

manhack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,024
Looking forward to finding out the real reason he was banned. I am certain it wasn't just for the chest farming.
 

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
Sounds like a bug BioWare should have fixed after it became widely known during the private beta.

It's not the responsibility of the players to determine what is or isn't allowed. If it's possible in the game, it's possible in the game. The onus is on the developer to fix the shit in a timely manor.

It's really blowing my mind that I have to repeatedly explain this.

Oh, and the fact that this is a PvE shooter with no trading or item economy is absolutely relevant. Anthem isn't an MMO. BioWare should be taking pointers from Borderlands, Destiny, or The Division. Not fucking FFXI.
No, it is the responsibility of the players to not repeatedly use an obvious bug in an online game to kill enemies super fast, ruining the enjoyment of other members of your group. It's not like the bug was something that just happened, you had to knowingly do it to spam an ultimate over and over again racking up tons of damage.
 

molnizzle

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,695
"No other game in this genre bans players" - it is an mmo whether you think it is or not. But even discounting that, claiming that there is a new genre with only a few games in it, let's go with that. One of them, Warframe, bans people for exploiting bugs. One of those bugs that resulted in lots of bans was one where someone could level up their weapons super fast, which is even less affecting other players than this one.
It's quite literally not an MMO.

As for your second point, Warframe is a f2p game that sells XP boosters. Of course they're going to engage in shitty, punitive practices like that.

It's equally shitty, but you at least understand why the dev is being shitty. Assuming that what you're saying even happened like you said it did. I'm taking your word for it.

No, it is the responsibility of the players to not repeatedly use an obvious bug in an online game to kill enemies super fast, ruining the enjoyment of other members if your group. It's not like the bug was something that just happened, you had to knowingly do it to spam an ultimate over and over again racking up tons of damage.
No, it is not.

It's the responsibility of the developer to not ship code that allows players to do stuff they don't want players to do. Period, end of discussion.

This is a goddamn loot game. Players are GOING to push it as far as they can to maximize their farm. That is expected behavior that comes with the territory. BioWare should have been aware of that heading into development. It's not the players fault that the devs have no idea what they're doing.
 
Nov 14, 2017
4,928
"No other game in this genre bans players" - it is an mmo whether you think it is or not. But even discounting that, claiming that there is a new genre with only a few games in it, let's go with that. One of them, Warframe, bans people for exploiting bugs. One of those bugs that resulted in lots of bans was one where someone could level up their weapons super fast, which is even less affecting other players than this one.
Anthem, Destiny, and The Division absolutely are not MMOs like FFXI/XIV or WoW. They are a completely different genre. They are schlooters.

As to Warframe, firstly it looks like that was controversial even in the Warframe community - there appear to be plenty of people who take the same view as the commentators here - plus it's not even clear that people were banned for just exploiting the glitch. It looks like most of the players that were banned were using macros. Nobody here is arguing that using external utilities or macros is OK.
 

Intraxidance

Member
Oct 25, 2017
950
If it feels like an exploit, it's probably not a good idea to do it until you know how Bioware will handle these circumstances in an online only game. They don't want players getting geared up super quickly with nothing to do.
 

molnizzle

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,695
If it feels like an exploit, it's probably not a good idea to do it until you know how Bioware will handle these circumstances in an online only game. They don't want players getting geared up super quickly with nothing to do.
Sounds like a BioWare problem.

"Shit, players are reaching our non-existent endgame too fast. Better start banning them."

High IQ development decisions.
 

AntiMacro

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,136
Alberta
Anthem, Destiny, and The Division absolutely are not MMOs like FFXI/XIV or WoW. They are a completely different genre. They are schlooters.

As to Warframe, firstly it looks like that was controversial even in the Warframe community - there appear to be plenty of people who take the same view as the commentators here - plus it's not even clear that people were banned for just exploiting the glitch. It looks like most of the players that were banned were using macros. Nobody here is arguing that using external utilities or macros is OK.
Keep in mind we don't REALLY know why this guy was banned either - but it sure as fuck wasn't for "playing the game efficiently" like people keep saying. I mean his video starts with 'I don't know why I was banned...' then he lists three or four things it might have been, with commenters filling in several more worse ones that he likely omitted deliberately.

This reminds me a lot of the guy in the Game Changer program who was "blackballed" for being "honest" with a review of Anthem....only none of that was true.
 

Intraxidance

Member
Oct 25, 2017
950
Then maybe they shouldn't have shipped a product without an endgame?

Sure, I agree, I have no interest in the game after the beta, I'm not some kind of EA sycophant. But games like this are typically designed for maximize player engagement to ensure they spend a lot of money on stupid bullshit microtransactions. If players are able to rapidly gear up through exploits, it's not unusual to be banned.

There have been PvE exploits in World of Warcraft with no impact to player economies that lead to bans. I've always approached anything that "feels" exploity with a fair amount of trepidation because you don't know how hard the ban hammer will come down. Now, if the dude was banned for just running around with an efficient farming strategy, that's some bullshit. But knowingly using glitches that are clearly exploits is just begging to be banned.

Also it's possible the ban is unjust and will be rescinded, we don't know. But I've seen plenty of people in the past (for other games) post about their bans, claiming that it's unfair, then a customer service rep comes in and clears the air about why they were banned. Typically the person just leaves out the real reason they were banned so they look like an innocent victim of the man.
 

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,440
Keep in mind we don't REALLY know why this guy was banned either - but it sure as fuck wasn't for "playing the game efficiently" like people keep saying. I mean his video starts with 'I don't know why I was banned...' then he lists three or four things it might have been, with commenters filling in several more worse ones that he likely omitted deliberately.

This reminds me a lot of the guy in the Game Changer program who was "blackballed" for being "honest" with a review of Anthem....only none of that was true.

Streamerhouse was also banned, and others that played with them. The thing they had in common with this guy? Streaming, and farming efficiently. Streamerhouse did the checkpoint boss farm tactic instead of chest farm route.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
Exploiting a game bug results in bans in most MMO's, it's a normal thing, a rule all the games have. Doesn't matter if you told the developer about it, if you then proceeded to keep doing it. Back in the day Square banned hundreds of gamers in Final Fantasy XI for taking advantage of an exploit - gamers discovered one merchant bought an item back for more money than the same merchant sold it for. Anyone who racked up lots of money from doing that got banned.
Oh my god this isnt an mmo or even a multiplayer game. Stop using different genres to justify this.
 

SuperiorJT

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9
I think EA has been pretty trigger happy with banning accounts from games lately. My brother is on his 3rd Apex account because he was falsely accused of cheating. The appeal system is pointless since every punishment on origin seems to be permanent. I don't see how this is fair for anybody that becomes a victim to it especially if they spend money on this content. I already had a bad opinion of EA before all of this, but things like this don't deserve my money; or even a chance for future content. Being disrespectful to your player base that is supporting you does not deserve a reward in return.
 
Nov 14, 2017
4,928
Keep in mind we don't REALLY know why this guy was banned either - but it sure as fuck wasn't for "playing the game efficiently" like people keep saying. I mean his video starts with 'I don't know why I was banned...' then he lists three or four things it might have been, with commenters filling in several more worse ones that he likely omitted deliberately.

This reminds me a lot of the guy in the Game Changer program who was "blackballed" for being "honest" with a review of Anthem....only none of that was true.
Gladd listed like, 3 things. The chest farm, the wipe farm, and the DC farm. He thinks it was the chest farm because that's what he did the most, but everyone here seems to think it was the DC farm. Gladd is a legit streamer who is well respected in the Destiny community and is playing the game exactly how most Destiny PVE sweats would play it. If something he did was TOS, it's in his best interests to find out what exactly it was and communicate that back to his audience.
 

Mud

Banned
Feb 2, 2019
102
Did you read my post?

The impact should be reasonably looked at on a case by case basis. Thats what discretion means

Make a decision that deals with the issue in a positive direction or go to war with the player base

Im sorry but we already have better examples to point to and they are going the Bethesda route
This is a positive outcome. Lol. You guys on here.... you keep claiming things as if there are these rules set in stone. This outcome is positive to me. Goodbye Cheater.
 

Mass Effect

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 31, 2017
16,763
Imagine if everyone who did the Loot Cave or the Atheon exploit got banned. And that actually gave you a clear advantage in PVP.

For Anthem though? Who TF cares? There's no economy, there's no PVP.

Hell, DE won't even ban you for doing shit like this in Warframe and there's an actual economy in the game. Blizzard doesn't even ban people either in Diablo as far as I'm aware.
 

Wetwork

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,607
Colorado
The thing with this is, it's jot ruining the experience of others. Patch it and move on, live Massive and Bungie did.

If there's one thing I learned from Destiny, is players will result to some absurd tactics to cut down the grind if your grind is bullshit. Make a better endgame, make the loot satisfying, and accept your faults as a developer of people resort to exploits to improve their experiences