'Destiny' Is ‘World Of Warcraft,’ And The Live Service Looter Race Is Ending

[Ahti]

Saying things like "It is constantly changing and adding content and reinventing itself to keep things fresh [...]compare Destiny's breadth and pace of content and loot and worlds to its rivals. There really is no competition on many fronts" in a world in which Warframe exists, is pure satire to me.

 

[nofriendo]

Its not as if Destiny perfected the looter shooter model, It hasnt even gotten the loot part right yet. Its only the king until something better comes along. Will that next thing be the same, no. Even Bungies idea of a proper shared world doesnt exist yet in game. The game may as well just be co-op. There is space there for someone else to come in and offer a proper shared world experience that could be awesome.

The Division 2's problem was that like a lot of ubisoft games it felt too much like the division 1. After pouring a bunch of hours into the first I didnt want to do the same for the second. Warframe felt a little unapproachable when I tried it out.

 

[Omnistalgic]

The fact that destiny is about to get a giant help from 60fps on consoles is going to cement people playing longer on consoles. It's a huge difference

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This is when I'm jumping back in!

 

[MistaTwo]

In the FPS space there are maybe 2 or 3 other developers (Treyarch, DICE and Respawn) that can deliver a game that plays so damn well.

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I have said for a long time that the true secret to Destiny's success is not their content drops or live service plans (an area where they drop the ball as often as they nail it IMHO) and instead lies with the core mechanics and gameplay loop.

I just came back for the first time in years and am having a blast like I never put it down.

Obviously, being first to the market was important and explains why people stuck around even in the loot cave days around d1 launch, but that advantage should be lessened at this point with plenty of competitors out there.

Bungie are just unparalleled when it comes to making satisfying gunpĺay and combat loops.

 

[TheGhost]

I have said for a long time that the true secret to Destiny's success is not their content drops or live service plans (an area where they drop the ball as often as they nail it IMHO) and instead lies with the core mechanics and gameplay loop.

I just came back for the first time in years and am having a blast like I never put it down.

Obviously, being first to the market was important and explains why people stuck around even in the loot cave days around d1 launch, but that advantage should be lessened at this point with plenty of competitors out there.

Bungie are just unparalleled when it comes to making satisfying gunpĺay and combat loops.

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Also communities, the amount of weekly podcasts in the begining based off of destiny. Some went away only to be replaced by new ones. The streaming community kept growing. Destiny fostered a strong group of people in 3 categories.

PVE
PVP
LORE.....the lore is amazing.

 

[haradaku7]

I love me some destiny and I would agree with with article if final fantasy 14 didnt exist and I think it better then world of warcraft.

There is room for another looter game. Somebody just has to make a good one.

 

[PapaJustify]

I would say it solely depends on the effort you put into that project. Bungie went in with a long term vision for their live service and figured the rest out on the way.
For many others, like EA and Ubisoft, they see Destiny and say: "We want a piece of that pie, too", but they'll fail eventually because they are not as dedicated or passionate about their games.

Especially EA thought they can pull a game that is like Destiny out of the ground within a few years and treat it with the same low-effort cash-in attitude like they treat their sports games like FIFA every year.

And then there is Bungie themselves as a factor. Their passion for great game-/gunplay and how they are able to build a fleshed out world with lore really gives them the edge.

 

[Skyfireblaze]

I would love for it to be a proper WoW replacement. but the world doesnt feel alive enough, the endgame is not deep enough, you dont have enough abilities (in WoW you have many and classes feel very different because of it), you lack roles. theres just plenty of fundamental differences.

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Yeah this is my biggest issue with Destiny, it just doesn't scratch that MMO itch for me where I actually have a big world to explore, where it feels like I make journey's and where I truly feel like I'm sharing a world with many players. The few people you see at the tower and in the open spaces don't come even close to cut it and the rest is just loading screens between segmented areas.

 

[Praedyth]

Bungie said from the very beginning they wanted the WoW of FPS. I kinda like that it'll last for some years more, but I hate it because they will keep taking content away and we'll never have the complete experience.

 

[Vilam]

Blizzard has never fucked up WoW to the degree that Bungie continues to fuck up Destiny. Plus, the competition Destiny has had to face has been hot garbage. Truly frustrating as a player... The audience for these types of games is not getting properly served.

 

[Aztechnology]

Yeah this is my biggest issue with Destiny, it just doesn't scratch that MMO itch for me where I actually have a big world to explore, where it feels like I make journey's and where I truly feel like I'm sharing a world with many players. The few people you see at the tower and in the open spaces don't come even close to cut it and the rest is just loading screens between segmented areas.

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A game has to have an economy and multiple pursuits. Destiny's pursuit is literally guns. That's it. Wow is really a marvel in many ways how many complex systems overlap in meaningful ways that are reliant on eachother. Destiny has none of that.

Doing the challenging content is definitely fun, but there's really no additional loop aside from grind to complete the set basically.

 

[Calm Killer]

I agree. It's the alpha and omega when it comes to Shlooters.

I'm cold turkey-ing that bitch right now because it just takes up too much of my gaming time, just like I did with WoW in 2009 after I played close to 5000 hours of it.

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5000 hours? You are going to have to get those numbers up.

 

[Bold One]

5000 hours? You are going to have to get those numbers up.

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Rookie numbers, amirite?

 

[ThreepQuest64]

Having played neither Destiny nor Warframe for more than a few hours I'm not sure if I'd agree with the article. I constantly hear how great Warframe is, often described as the superior Destiny. Yet it is mentioned only one time and just to compare it's player base in one sentence while it has better ratings and also more ratings on Steam.

 

[Aygomyownroad]

I think Borderlands series does this exceptionally well as they all had a very solid story and mechanics with a very rewarding loot system and of course you can do the whole game single player, even if some bosses can be really challenging.

Destiny 2 I have never played, I don't get a lot of time to play online shooters as I have two young kids, but destiny was a great base I felt.

Too many games are trying to emulate this games as a service fad, but they fail because the game is just not good enough, be it poor mechanics, emptyness, or poor loot rewards.

Or the biggest problem: support! I have played FO76 and I have to applaud how well Bethesda has turned the game around when many publishers (EA with Anthem) would just cut their losses and walk away. Support to keep the population engaged, bring new members in and old memebrs back is the key to a good MMO game. Destiny and Borderlands have had great DLC, and FO76 has had major overhauls which really helps keep things fresh

 

[Deleted member 37928]

I hope not. Destiny is a step in the right direction but it doesn't feel like this genre has seen its true potential just yet.

 

[Skyfireblaze]

A game has to have an economy and multiple pursuits. Destiny's pursuit is literally guns. That's it. Wow is really a marvel in many ways how many complex systems overlap in meaningful ways that are reliant on eachother. Destiny has none of that.

Doing the challenging content is definitely fun, but there's really no additional loop aside from grind to complete the set basically.

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Thinking about it, you're completely right. I'm not a big WoW person but adore FFXIV for the same reasons, I could think of a dozens of things I could do in FFXIV and they would all be meaningful, same in WoW, in Destiny not so much yeah.

I'll say that I think Borderlands 2 even manages to evoke a better feel of you being part of the world than Destiny 2 does and Borderlands 3 kinda regressed a bit too in that part. I think a big reason was Borderlands 2 just taking place on Pandora while B3 had you planet-hopping all the time much like Destiny does.

 

[AustinFordGames]

When you have gunplay as sublime as Destiny has, the occasional sandbox or expansion design error can be weathered.

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1000%

The only 2 games outside of like Dragon Quest, Jak and Daxter, and Fallout that I always come back to are Destiny and Halo.

 

[Duxxy3]

I don't know if there's enough interest for publishers to really care anymore. Destiny has its following. Outside of that, there doesn't seem to be a lot of interest in the genre.

I have said for a long time that the true secret to Destiny's success is not their content drops or live service plans (an area where they drop the ball as often as they nail it IMHO) and instead lies with the core mechanics and gameplay loop.

I just came back for the first time in years and am having a blast like I never put it down.

Obviously, being first to the market was important and explains why people stuck around even in the loot cave days around d1 launch, but that advantage should be lessened at this point with plenty of competitors out there.

Bungie are just unparalleled when it comes to making satisfying gunpĺay and combat loops.

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The only reason I played Destiny was because of the gameplay loop. I never did a single raid. Didn't play the dungeon or PVP. It was all about the combat for me.

 

[Kill3r7]

On a slight tangent, I do wonder if any of these mmo lite games (Destiny, The Division, Warframe and Anthem) can ever produce enough interesting content to satiate the majority of the community?

 

[kidko]

the feel of shooting Bungie enemies has yet to be beaten, looter or no

 

[Afrocious]

For as much fuckups D1 and D2 had, the franchise is really at the top with providing a PvE experience that's a MMO-lite. The funny thing is that I never felt like Destiny would be impossible to outdo, mainly due to the ball being dropped so many times in these 7 years.

But apparently Bungie somehow pulls it off.

Low key, I'm wondering if Ghost of Tsushima will join this conversation but I doubt it and I'm fine with that.

 

[Bold One]

On a slight tangent, I do wonder if any of these mmo lite games (Destiny, The Division, Warframe and Anthem) can ever produce enough interesting content to satiate the majority of the community?

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Nope, the communities are insatiable - especially when there is fame and fortune to be made from being a ppop-socking try-hard no-lifer.

Streamers are the fucking blight on these kinds of games.

 

[Tiber]

Have to hard disagree. There are too many things Destiny does wrong that players are consistently unhappy with. It can be dethroned relatively easily, I think.

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Destiny does a lot wrong and I often bitterly complain about it. But I've still put 1000+ hours into D2. For all its faults it has a quality that games like The Division lack. Plus the story is genuinely great - nowadays they even put it in the game Instead of relying on Byf to read weird cards.

I'm not even particularly into the FPS genre, I don't play any FPS except Destiny. Halo totally passed me by and I don't play COD or Battlefield. But Destiny is....Destiny.

 

[Plax]

For as much fuckups D1 and D2 had, the franchise is really at the top with providing a PvE experience that's a MMO-lite. The funny thing is that I never felt like Destiny would be impossible to outdo, mainly due to the ball being dropped so many times in these 7 years.

But apparently Bungie somehow pulls it off.

Low key, I'm wondering if Ghost of Tsushima will join this conversation but I doubt it and I'm fine with that.

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It won't. But in a just world, we would get a full-fledged online/co-op GoT game.

 

[Tiber]

I remember people praying Anthem was a good game so they could flee Destiny like Bioware was Moses.

Bioware just fucked it all up by making a horrible game.

If Anthem had been even an 8.5 out of 10 experience, with a solid roadmap, this article wouldn't exist.

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Yea, good point. Destiny might have competition if Anthem was great instead of being so broken that they even managed to mess up the speed at which you walk around the town.

 

[Cuban Legend]

Didn't D2 start off as a full price game and then end up Free-to-Play? The staying power of the game and whether it justified or earned its full purchase price or the time of it's gamers, can be called into question for the matter of the F2P transition.. I always hated games and things in general that move from a "single-purchase price for ownership" to "Tv/Movies/Games as a service over time" it's sad that this tactic works for so many games and other non-gaming services.. IMO.

D2 learned from wow on implementing F2P properly, that is for sure.. but i feel it ultimately may have been a bit too ambitious.. to it's detriment in some respects *cough* sunsetting/vaulting *cough*.

 

[Van Bur3n]

Didn't D2 start off as a full price game and then end up Free-to-Play? The staying power of the game and whether it justified or earned its full purchase price or the time of it's gamers, can be called into question for the matter of the F2P transition.. I always hated games and things in general that move from a "single-purchase price for ownership" to "Tv/Movies/Games as a service over time" it's sad that this tactic works for so many games and other non-gaming services.. IMO.

D2 learned from wow on implementing F2P properly, that is for sure.. but i feel it ultimately may have been a bit too ambitious.. to it's detriment in some respects *cough* sunsetting/vaulting *cough*.

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The game has become immensely worse since it went F2P. Core activities go neglected in this game because they're the free aspect of the game that Bungo does not wish to dedicate themselves to because its content they can't profit off of it. Whereas everything new that we wish to pursue is behind a $10 wall of mediocre to shit content every three months with the season passes.

 

[Cuban Legend]

The game has become immensely worse since it went F2P. Core activities go neglected in this game because they're the free aspect of the game that Bungo does not wish to dedicate themselves to because its content they can't profit off of it. Whereas everything new that we wish to pursue is behind a $10 wall of mediocre to shit content every three months with the season passes.

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I'm sad to say, I couldn't agree more.

I had some spare cash this holiday season so i got into D2 and loved the F2P aspect and the "30 seconds of fun" in the gameplay loop that Bungie had managed to balance and create, so I went and bought Beyond Light and all the DLC during the Steam Sale. But, it's sad that a bunch of DLC1 & 2 content got "vaulted" (even though said DLC was heavily discounted as a result, it still sucks content was removed and it leaves new players constantly wanting a weapon or armor we can't acquire anymore) and it's sad that i have to grind for power level to remain competetive in Raids and in the Top-Teir PVP playlist (which is par for the course in the gametype/genre Bungie was trying to target).. but the fact that the game has adopted a Season aspect behind that paywall... i bought the pass this season since i had some spare cash, and I don't know if I'll buy it again next Season TBQH.. :(

I love that the gameplay loop reminds me of Halo, and the rewards and loot remind me of Diablo, (and vaulting./sunsetting aside) but- the Seasons, the grinding, and paywalls remind me of things I'd rather not have in a "FPS/Loot" type game..

 

[AnimeJesus]

Ya it's been the top looter for a while, and while the gameplay in Destiny is great the feeling of increasing in power just isn't there.

Games like Borderlands and Diablo nail that feeling of the game changing when you get a new powerful item. In Destiny your power change is always so subtle it just makes it kinda of boring.

Plus it's much more exciting for loot to be random drops and not something you have grind out a bunch of tasks for. Destiny's best guns are behind some long ass Grundy quests that are sometimes impossible unless you no life your way through them.

 

[Deleted member 21709]

I'm kind of shocked that Ubisoft chose to not make a current gen patch of Division 2.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Ya it's been the top looter for a while, and while the gameplay in Destiny is great the feeling of increasing in power just isn't there.

Games like Borderlands and Diablo nail that feeling of the game changing when you get a new powerful item. In Destiny your power change is always so subtle it just makes it kinda of boring.

Plus it's much more exciting for loot to be random drops and not something you have grind out a bunch of tasks for. Destiny's best guns are behind some long ass Grundy quests that are sometimes impossible unless you no life your way through them.

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That's because neither of those games have a PvP aspect.

 

[Golding]

I'm kind of shocked that Ubisoft chose to not make a current gen patch of Division 2.

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I believe this one is coming later this month or February. I could have sworn I read this somewhere.

 

[Rocketz]

I'm kind of shocked that Ubisoft chose to not make a current gen patch of Division 2.

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They came out early December and said they are unlocking them to run at 4K 60FPS but that's about it.

All they said for a date was midway through season 4

 

[Golding]

Ya it's been the top looter for a while, and while the gameplay in Destiny is great the feeling of increasing in power just isn't there.

Games like Borderlands and Diablo nail that feeling of the game changing when you get a new powerful item. In Destiny your power change is always so subtle it just makes it kinda of boring.

Plus it's much more exciting for loot to be random drops and not something you have grind out a bunch of tasks for. Destiny's best guns are behind some long ass Grundy quests that are sometimes impossible unless you no life your way through them.

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Yup game is fun but this right there is my biggest problem with this game. I have a 9 to 5 job mostly and simply do not have the time for some of the content like raids.

 

[Deleted member 21709]

They came out early December and said they are unlocking them to run at 4K 60FPS but that's about it.

All they said for a date was midway through season 4

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I believe this one is coming later this month or February. I could have sworn I read this somewhere.

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Oohhh - that's all I wanted! That's great.
Looks like I was misinformed.

 

[BassForever]

I missed this thread back in October, but my only thought is if D2 was truly the king the way WoW or League is, then Activision wouldn't have let it go.

 

[Addleburg]

I got into Destiny really hard for about a month + change back when The Taken King came out, but haven't played it since. I downloaded Destiny 2 through Game Pass recently, but ended up deleting it because it just seemed like so much to try and get caught up on. That being said, it seems like the strongest game in its genre for people who want that persistent experience. I think I just realized that I don't.

I rarely play games online, and those that I do are typically Left4Dead-alikes that can be played with randoms and don't involve a larger engagement with lore and party curation the way Destiny did when I played it. Playing TTK back in 2015 was a lot of fun, but also felt like a side job with planning sessions and committing to raids and whatnot.

I really ended up getting into The Division 2 back when you could buy the standalone game for like $3. The game's not remarkable, but I found the loop and the world to be surprisingly engaging. But it's a game I entirely played on my own, with no interest in doing online multiplayer aspects of it. I'd be happy if they came out with a third one with the goal of it just being a solid stand-alone game.

 

[Cuban Legend]

Yup game is fun but this right there is my biggest problem with this game. I have a 9 to 5 job mostly and simply do not have the time for some of the content like raids.

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agreed, i also have a 9-5 and catching up and staying at a competitive light level is near impossible as it would suck up all my free time.. It's a shame really.

 

[Rei Toei]

Of all the games mentioned I've only really enjoyed The Division. Didn't play it endleslly, nor did my friends, but we did all spend a good 40-60 hours into it. Most of us bought the NY expansion. I hope Ubi lets Massive keep working on the IP, it's kinda my/our go-to fix ever since the Gears co-op on the couch days.

 

[Snozz]

I'm sort of fine with this, destiny is decent and has great gameplay- I could see a competitor coming in later once tech has moved forward to have a good shot at it (aka the ffxiv to wow in some ways)

Personally I'd be much more interested in someone having a good go at a PSO style modern.. slasher looter? Definitely still a niche there and PSO2 went way too far down the anime hole for my tastes.

 

[toadkarter]

It's probably the best feeling shooter I have ever played, and I think for people that haven't played MMOs like myself the concept of raids feels incredibly fresh and not really done anywhere else in these kinds of games. I'm just personally not a huge fan of loot / grind mechanics so I ended up dropping it after exhausting most of the story content (still about 100 hours of gameplay), but I can totally see why people keep logging on to play this game (and I myself will definitely be back for the next expansion).