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Xeontech

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,059
User warned: Hostility to other posters
"And a watered down version with smaller teams would absolutely be doable."

There are plenty of other games for you to play,
typical moronic and immature reply

As if lack of in game party mechanics for raids somehow makes the game 'better'

That and the fact 90% of the playerbase cant play said content or even finish the dam storylines

Enjoy your sinking ship morons
 

Techno

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,409
As someone that loved forsaken, I dropped off after I completed the raid a couple times and I haven't been back due to other amazing games releasing.

I don't see myself playing again until Destiny 3.

I think I'm in the same boat. I haven't done any raids but I log in every now and then and do one or two dailies.

Forsaken itself was pretty good, the post-content stuff has been kinda lame. I probably won't be getting the annual pass either because I heard it sucks.
 

Noob Pilot

Member
Jun 10, 2018
302
I think this is a fine example of how GAAS will never last as long or work as well as publishers want them to.

With so many AAA games going GAAS, consumers will be more selective of the games that invest time and money in.

The day will come when AAA GAAS models will implode not because of the games themselves but the dumb expectations that publishers put on those games.

Game companies consist of some of the worse managed businesses and this GAAS bubble is one that's waiting to burst.
 

Parfait

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
580
This season has just that. The forges are matchmade, three player activities. Given how badly the average blueberry is at them, it should settle the argument about raid matchmaking once and for all, but I know it won't. Any activity that involves any kind of mechanic beyond shooting at things is beyond about half the player base, and to be honest even shooting at things is beyond a lot of people.

If they diverted resources from the raid team to create more casual focused content that wouldn't be the same content, and so wouldn't still be the best content in the game. The thing holding back the casual players from enjoying the end game content is their lack of commitment and skill. There are plenty of games I've played where I've not gone into the hardcore endgame activities, but I don't begrudge that content existing for those players who enjoy it.



Right, so you played Destiny for a month and then stopped. The problem with launch D2 is that everyone did that, and the hardcore were annoyed because we were used to having things to grind for. It doesn't matter what Bungie does, casual players will always just pick it up and play for a month, or maybe dip in for a week when new content comes out. The fact that the ongoing content is catered towards the hardcore is not a problem; right now engagement is like, more than double what it was at this point last year. The problem last year was that because all the content was casual focused, the hardcore community dropped off with the casuals because there was nothing left to do.



You don't have to grind quite that much if you don't care about doing everything in the first week. If you just do a few milestones you can pretty easily go up by 10 power a week with a few hours play, but the problem is you have to know the most efficient way to do your powerful gear rewards as not all powerful gear rewards are equal. The new forges help a lot with the power grind too but unfortunately they are locked behind some pretty silly grinding to even unlock them, especially the latest one.
10 power a week sounds awful. especially considering me cores.

playing is fun but the time requirement is god awful and it especially fuxks you over if you skip a week. remember escalator protocol and not only the grouping nonsense that had gone on with it but the ridiculous difficulty that led to me only getting it done near the end of that expansion. and then having to do it every week for five weeks.

imagine doing the same for a bike over an even longer period of time but now you can't miss a week. it's piss.
 

DekuBleep

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,712
The latest expansion was a mega grindy turd. I'm sure that didn't help. Even the super hardcore like myself are not coming back. Even the ultra ultra hardcore are feeling burnout. It's just do the same activities over and over. Most of the same activities from Foresaken launch too with only a few new forges and the new raid. At launch you had to grind all of the same old activities on all three characters another time to just have the power level to experience the new content.
 

DSP

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,120
I played the free copy they gave on PC, completed the campaign, played all the strikes and quite a bit of pvp by myself. I don't know what the expansion has but never cared enough to buy it and I don't see how some more content would help the game become less boring over time. The entire core loop of the game is very time consuming, getting things done takes so much time and the game is not very good to play solo. Developers are so focused on the whole friends thing and grouping that they don't realize your game must be good to play solo to remain relevant. Grouping is an occasional thing, you can't expect people to do just that every time they play a game. I think in the end that's the main fault of the game, it's no good solo.

Meanwhile you have the booming battle royale genre that can be played solo or in squad of any number, doesn't take much commitment and they are immediately satisfying. Overall I think there is just quite a bit less audience for a game like this than there was 4 years ago. There won't be any growth for them, this is it. Main strength of BR games is that in the face of mobas, overwatch and loot shooters like Destiny, they are great to play alone or with friends and you don't rely on your team and what matchmaker spits out to have a good time.
 

Deleted member 29249

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
3,634
After how great forsaken was this annual pass thing sucks for players that don't want/have time to grind the same shit over and over. I'm still playing but given up on the forges before i've Unlocked the 2nd one. I don't want to spend my time jumping thru hoops to play a game.

If gambit didn't have PL advantage in pvp parts I wouldn't even bother leveling up at this point.

With raids, high end weapon quest, some high end exotic catalyst, ect.. Don't under stand why yet another acitivity is lock3d down for hard core people. The forges could have been something cool for the non raiding crowd, short high end matched made acitvities. To bad they are locked behind the most unfun quest in destiny history.


Also all the ever verse stuff sucks this season, I'm usually in for a $50 but can't be bothered with the emotes and dances this season.
 

Soupman Prime

The Fallen
Nov 8, 2017
8,554
Boston, MA
Haven't played a second of Destiny since RDR2 and Fallout 76 came out. Already got about 80+ hours in 76 and about 40 in RDR2. There's tons of other games out too so that just screws them even more.
 

Fairxchange

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,382
Everything feels like busy work right now. Would be great if you could just get online and enter fun instances and obtain good rewards based on RNG and effort.
 

Deleted member 29249

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
3,634
Haven't played a second of Destiny since RDR2 and Fallout 76 came out. Already got about 80+ hours in 76 and about 40 in RDR2. There's tons of other games out too so that just screws them even more.

I've played almost nothing but destiny since forsaken came out (gaming time kinda limited), after trying the forge stuff ended up finally starting and finishing Spider man and now starting assassin creed. Guess that's the upside for destiny sucking.
 

Sho_Nuff82

Member
Nov 14, 2017
18,408
Why is this surprising when only 10% of the player base has access to 100% of the content of any given expansion?

I'm never putting the disk back in until matchmaking is implemented.
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
31,947
I'm never putting the disk back in until matchmaking is implemented.
Wanting matchmaking for raids is something that's a nice soundbite but would be terrible in reality and completely impractical to provide as an option to players.

Good luck getting through The Last Wish with randoms you can't guarantee a microphone for, and that could drop out at any point on the multiple-hours long journey. Then what, you have a team of 5 and can't reasonably continue? Does the matchmaking match people into raid that are halfway through? What if you want to experience it all and get all the loot, what if it's your first time and don't want the final boss to be the first thing you see? So then how do you deal with the now-team-of-5?

Yes, raids can be run in under a couple of hours when everyone gels and knows what to do. This isn't the case with matchmaking though, and would likely mirror a number of first attempts from PUGs which more often than not go into the 5-8 hour range, sometimes without completion.

If provided as an option matchmaking would need to provide a fun, reliable way to complete the raids with randoms. I really don't see how you can iron out the kinks in that.
 

ZangBa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,040
This game isn't fixed until they add even the most basic in-game matchmaking features. There's no reason after all this time there still isn't a group finder. No, the phone app doesn't count. That's like some Nintendo shit, put it in the game.
 

Deleted member 4044

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,121
Wanting matchmaking for raids is something that's a nice soundbite but would be terrible in reality and completely impractical to provide as an option to players.

Good luck getting through The Last Wish with randoms you can't guarantee a microphone for, and that could drop out at any point on the multiple-hours long journey. Then what, you have a team of 5 and can't reasonably continue? Does the matchmaking match people into raid that are halfway through? What if you want to experience it all and get all the loot, what if it's your first time and don't want the final boss to be the first thing you see? So then how do you deal with the now-team-of-5?

Yes, raids can be run in under a couple of hours when everyone gels and knows what to do. This isn't the case with matchmaking though, and would likely mirror a number of first attempts from PUGs which more often than not go into the 5-8 hour range, sometimes without completion.

If provided as an option matchmaking would need to provide a fun, reliable way to complete the raids with randoms. I really don't see how you can iron out the kinks in that.

Even though this doesn't excuse the lack of matchmaking in Nightfalls, I would also say it's a design problem with the raids.

You have to design content for the majority of your player base to enjoy. I would love to see a breakdown of the % of players who completed Vault of Glass, King's Fall, Leviathan, and now Last Wish. I guarantee it drops off considerably as you move from D1 Y1 to D2 Y2, because the raid requirements and mechanics are getting more complex and harder.

Mechanics getting more complicated is good...to a degree. I maintain that every player should be able to beat the normal version of a raid without having to be carried or learn a complicated breakdown of mechanics on Youtube (Riven fight). Back in D1, you could explain the Oracle encounter or Warpriest to somebody and after a few wipes, they would "get it" and you could make progress and move on. Hard Mode/Prestige and now the Triumphs (they've done a great job of this with Petra's Run) should be reserved for the hardcore/streamers and offer tantalizing rewards because of it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,466
Dead Hardcore Bungie Defenders,

When the vast majority of people say they want matchmaking, what they actually mean is they want a way to group up with other randoms without having to leave the game. In other words, LFG. It's something that should have been built into the game from day 1. The fact that we're at year 4 and Bungie still refuse to even talk about the chance of maybe possibly doing it tells us all we need to know about Bungie as a development team. Perhaps if they did that, they wouldn't have such embarrassingly low completion percentages for the raids.
 

nasirum

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,833
Somewhere
God it really is a grind to get to 600 power, flew up to 500 then days to get to 520!

600 is the new 500 fyi

they changed primes so that you get them more regularly and higher power jumps.

Dead Hardcore Bungie Defenders,

When the vast majority of people say they want matchmaking, what they actually mean is they want a way to group up with other randoms without having to leave the game. In other words, LFG. It's something that should have been built into the game from day 1. The fact that we're at year 4 and Bungie still refuse to even talk about the chance of maybe possibly doing it tells us all we need to know about Bungie as a development team. Perhaps if they did that, they wouldn't have such embarrassingly low completion percentages for the raids.

There is LFG already. It's on the Bungie app.

Guess what? Even with LFG, your experience in raids would likely be the same as matchmaking. Raids need high levels of coordination and communication and patience.

It's been incredibly easy to find groups in the Era Destiny Discord for the raids, forges, dungeon.

You get what you put in with this game.
 

kinoki

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,697
Dead Hardcore Bungie Defenders,

When the vast majority of people say they want matchmaking, what they actually mean is they want a way to group up with other randoms without having to leave the game. In other words, LFG. It's something that should have been built into the game from day 1. The fact that we're at year 4 and Bungie still refuse to even talk about the chance of maybe possibly doing it tells us all we need to know about Bungie as a development team. Perhaps if they did that, they wouldn't have such embarrassingly low completion percentages for the raids.

Still haven't done a single thing in Destiny that involves any action outside of the game. Even when I spent several hours a day playing it. I don't socialise with other Destiny players and I don't have any friends who play Destiny. Why would I even bother with that content? Also, why doesn't Bungie want me to play all the content in their game? Why does Bungie hate me? (The only reason I'm not playing Destiny 2 is that I'm a parent now and can't really play games I can't pause.)
 
Jan 10, 2018
6,927
At the end of the day these are not MMO games that you play exclusively for years. Some people do of course, but I don't think they are representative of masses that play for a couple months, or perhaps weeks, and then move on to something else. There's no harm in that. Bungie just have to figure out how to "survive" these occurances.

I remember the new director for FFXIV talking about this. He understood that it's part of the online business that popularity goes up and down. And it's nothing bad per se. People need to take a rest from a game once in a while and they will gather energy to start playing again when some new interesting content is released.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,466
600 is the new 500 fyi

they changed primes so that you get them more regularly and higher power jumps.



There is LFG already. It's on the Bungie app.

Guess what? Even with LFG, your experience in raids would likely be the same as matchmaking. Raids need high levels of coordination and communication and patience.

It's been incredibly easy to find groups in the Era Destiny Discord for the raids, forges, dungeon.

You get what you put in with this game.
Having to use an app outside of the game isn't acceptable. Put it in the game where it belongs.
 

ManixMiner

Banned
Dec 17, 2017
1,117
The Un-united Kingdom
I got out of the Destiny grind. Forsaken was ok but really showed how shallow the game is. The PL grind is for nothing, you grind upto 600 PL but not actually BE anymore powerful then you are at 10 PL.

The loot straight up sucks not even 1 exotic weapon/amour piece I want not that I would get it because they hardly drop. Quests are long and boring or time gated only slowing your progress. The worlds are lifeless, the enemies just wait around in little clusters. The RNG sucks I end up trashing 95% of my drops.

If Bungie continue to follow this path with Destiny 3 then it's DOA.
 

OldBenKenobi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,695
I got out of the Destiny grind. Forsaken was ok but really showed how shallow the game is. The PL grind is for nothing, you grind upto 600 PL but not actually BE anymore powerful then you are at 10 PL.

The loot straight up sucks not even 1 exotic weapon/amour piece I want not that I would get it because they hardly drop. Quests are long and boring or time gated only slowing your progress. The worlds are lifeless, the enemies just wait around in little clusters. The RNG sucks I end up trashing 95% of my drops.

If Bungie continue to follow this path with Destiny 3 then it's DOA.


mjl.gif


Man some of you're are delusional.

Maybe for you it will be DOA but for the majority of us who loved Forsaken, naw it will sell more then D2 did. I can put money on that for sure.



Why is this surprising when only 10% of the player base has access to 100% of the content of any given expansion?

I'm never putting the disk back in until matchmaking is implemented.



Did you know the current expansion featured matchmaking for all three forges? I tried running the first two forges with randoms through MM and my god never again. To this day since Black Armory has come out, I haven't completed even the first Forge which is all 600 plus with Randoms using MM because either no one has mics or they get over whelmed by the adds and can't ignite the forge through second wave or they don't understand the boss Mechancis...


Went in with a premade group using Xbox LFG and using discord app with some of the Resetera guys here, we knocked it out on our first try every time.
 
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ManixMiner

Banned
Dec 17, 2017
1,117
The Un-united Kingdom
Man some of you're are delusional.

Maybe for you it will be DOA but for the majority of us who loved Forsaken, naw it will sell more then D2 did. I can put money on that for sure.

Bungie have completely lost my faith in them and Destiny. They don't understand what they want the game to be. A RPGFPS or FPS with lite RPG mechanics. Forsaken dispite the hype is far behind anything TTK did the only reason Forsaken got so much praise was because the bar was set low following the DLC fiasco of CoO.

Adding to this they have flipped the grind from easy to max but hollowed it out and the only carrot is a PL increase not a Gjally or IceBreaker just very poor amour pieces with perks that offer little impact in the actual game. The curated rolls are Bungies reaction to the exotics been underwhelming.

Then the most frustrating thing with Destiny is the RNG it's terrible. I've had endless Transfigurations but no curated NoB or a good RL. Exotics won't drop. The RnG wall completely killed Destiny for me.

I know it looks like Im a hater but after 2700hrs on D1 and 1200 in D2 I guess I'm done with it's current form and want Destiny to change and evolve. But if D3 continues with D2's setup then only the super hardcore will get it.
 

OldBenKenobi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,695
Bungie have completely lost my faith in them and Destiny. They don't understand what they want the game to be. A RPGFPS or FPS with lite RPG mechanics. Forsaken dispite the hype is far behind anything TTK did the only reason Forsaken got so much praise was because the bar was set low following the DLC fiasco of CoO.

Adding to this they have flipped the grind from easy to max but hollowed it out and the only carrot is a PL increase not a Gjally or IceBreaker just very poor amour pieces with perks that offer little impact in the actual game. The curated rolls are Bungies reaction to the exotics been underwhelming.

Then the most frustrating thing with Destiny is the RNG it's terrible. I've had endless Transfigurations but no curated NoB or a good RL. Exotics won't drop. The RnG wall completely killed Destiny for me.

I know it looks like Im a hater but after 2700hrs on D1 and 1200 in D2 I guess I'm done with it's current form and want Destiny to change and evolve. But if D3 continues with D2's setup then only the super hardcore will get it.

Can't agree with that at all. I too have over a 1000 hours in D1 and almost a 1000 in D2 and Imo Forsaken is exactly what the hardcore Destiny community wanted.

Also that last comment is just not happening. D3 will sell more then D2 did and like I said, I can put money on that and feel damn confident.
 

ManixMiner

Banned
Dec 17, 2017
1,117
The Un-united Kingdom
Can't agree with that at all. I too have over a 1000 hours in D1 and almost a 1000 in D2 and Imo Forsaken is exactly what the hardcore Destiny community wanted.

Also that last comment is just not happening. D3 will sell more then D2 did and like I said, I can put money on that and feel damn confident.

Yeh I'm agreeing with carolina reaper on this, it won't sell more because it will only sell to the super hardcore that still play now.
 
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Truant

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,758
I think my main problem with the game is how power scales. You don't really get more powerful compared to the rest of the world, you're only gaining light to make higher level enemies less powerful to you. Level 1 enemies can still kill you just as easily as enemies your own level. It feels very cheap. There's no real sense of progression.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,466
I think my main problem with the game is how power scales. You don't really get more powerful compared to the rest of the world, you're only gaining light to make higher level enemies less powerful to you. Level 1 enemies can still kill you just as easily as enemies your own level. It feels very cheap. There's no real sense of progression.
That is bad game design, but worse than that is they constantly have players raise their level but give them no new abilities. The player only levels up because Bungie thinks player won't stick around for their "content" if there's no busywork or chores to do. If they had any confidence in their end-game content, they wouldn't constantly be doing this, but they made it clear with Black Armory, they don't know what they're doing anymore.
 

Screen Looker

Member
Nov 17, 2018
1,963
You get what you put in with this game.

I feel like the thread title answer could be summed up with this in quotes and attributed to a hardcore Destiny player.

I should clarify that I do NOT think Destiny is bad. I just think their biggest problem has been they create beautiful worlds where there's almost nothing to do or see in them.

Their events aren't that memorable unless you buy the next expansion. So they price people out of enjoying the cool stuff and they level people out of enjoying the rewarding stuff. Which leaves the solo or the non-competitive players with these beautiful, barren worlds where nothing but the same thing happens and events don't do anything for them because they can't just turn the game on and enjoy it the way a Fortnite or GTA Online player can just go online and get as much as they want.

You have to want to get the higher stuff or reach out to try to grow in the Raid efforts and I think back in 2014 that was far more forgiveable than it is in 2018 with so many other games just saying "hey, here's your sandbox. No go play with it"
 
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Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,621
Bungie have completely lost my faith in them and Destiny. They don't understand what they want the game to be. A RPGFPS or FPS with lite RPG mechanics. Forsaken dispite the hype is far behind anything TTK did the only reason Forsaken got so much praise was because the bar was set low following the DLC fiasco of CoO.

Adding to this they have flipped the grind from easy to max but hollowed it out and the only carrot is a PL increase not a Gjally or IceBreaker just very poor amour pieces with perks that offer little impact in the actual game. The curated rolls are Bungies reaction to the exotics been underwhelming.

Then the most frustrating thing with Destiny is the RNG it's terrible. I've had endless Transfigurations but no curated NoB or a good RL. Exotics won't drop. The RnG wall completely killed Destiny for me.

I know it looks like Im a hater but after 2700hrs on D1 and 1200 in D2 I guess I'm done with it's current form and want Destiny to change and evolve. But if D3 continues with D2's setup then only the super hardcore will get it.
I've dropped Destiny 2 again more or less because Black Armory is dogshite. But I cannot agree when you say Forsaken is behind TTK. Imo there is absolutely nothing that TTK does that Forsaken doesn't do better. Let me remind you that TTK when it came out got so much praise for its progression but there were so many people including myself who tried to warn the problem with it. Because it was also the first time we ran into this problem of finishing content by hitting max PL in 2 weeks and not having anything to do for a whole year after that. Forsaken at least has more content going for it than that one, TTK also completely made Y1 weapons irrelevant so it actually further reduced the amount of available content. Forsaken does none of this and has a larger content with more activities.
 

Mallaboo

Member
Nov 2, 2017
117
Destiny 2 is just OK and nothing more in my opinion,plus it's not really evolved enough to keep my attention when there is so many other good games i can be playing right now.
 

AlexBasch

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,307
Played and enjoyed Forsaken, but got tired of grinding Powerful Engrams and when I finally reached 600 I had to spend more cash to keep playing relevant modes. Will wait for a sale on the annual pass, game got too expensive for me at the moment.
 

ManixMiner

Banned
Dec 17, 2017
1,117
The Un-united Kingdom
I've dropped Destiny 2 again more or less because Black Armory is dogshite. But I cannot agree when you say Forsaken is behind TTK. Imo there is absolutely nothing that TTK does that Forsaken doesn't do better. Let me remind you that TTK when it came out got so much praise for its progression but there were so many people including myself who tried to warn the problem with it. Because it was also the first time we ran into this problem of finishing content by hitting max PL in 2 weeks and not having anything to do for a whole year after that. Forsaken at least has more content going for it than that one, TTK also completely made Y1 weapons irrelevant so it actually further reduced the amount of available content. Forsaken does none of this and has a larger content with more activities.

TTK had a far more positive impact on Destiny then Forsaken ever did the only reason why Forsaken is praised is because D2Y1 was that bad.
 
Oct 29, 2017
1,001
That's cause we finished it, this game never has enough content to hold people long enough compared to traditional MMO games.
They want to be MMO but don't want to give us the content to keep us active.
 

AlexBasch

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,307
I don't get all the complaints about the lack of a matchmaking stuff or whatever.

There's plenty of options of LFG, Discords or whatever. I'm just a lazy fuck who decided to never ever try a raid because I gotta watch a two hour video and then do all that shit flawlessly in order to fulfill the "must know what your doing" requirement that is demanded by most LFG posts and possibly taking like six or ten hours to complete the goddamn mission but the option is there.

I can admit I'm a lazy casual who doesn't want to engage in some hardcore shit, but my god, the options are right there.
 
Nov 14, 2017
4,928
10 power a week sounds awful. especially considering me cores.

playing is fun but the time requirement is god awful and it especially fuxks you over if you skip a week. remember escalator protocol and not only the grouping nonsense that had gone on with it but the ridiculous difficulty that led to me only getting it done near the end of that expansion. and then having to do it every week for five weeks.

imagine doing the same for a bike over an even longer period of time but now you can't miss a week. it's piss.
10 power in a couple of hours a week. You can do more if you play more, but that's like one evening. I had a friend come back to the game this week because they were away at college, and the network there is bad for gaming. In just one evening of playing they went up by over 10 power in a couple of hours, and then we did a LW which boosted them even more.

Also, they way to save infusion cores is don't infuse every time you get a new powerful drop! just keep your most powerful drop around to boost your current max power, and only infuse every 20/25 power or so. There's no need to infuse every slot just because it went up by 5 power.
That is bad game design, but worse than that is they constantly have players raise their level but give them no new abilities. The player only levels up because Bungie thinks player won't stick around for their "content" if there's no busywork or chores to do. If they had any confidence in their end-game content, they wouldn't constantly be doing this, but they made it clear with Black Armory, they don't know what they're doing anymore.
No, they made power progression a thing because we asked for it. It wasn't a thing in D2Y1, and the game was the worse for it. Other games with progression raiding have power progression as part of it, and it can take over a month for a player to hit max power unlike in D2 where you can just grind it out in two weeks after the cap is lifted.

I personally would like Destiny to have a longer power progression grind, and true progression raiding with only a small handful of groups clearing new raids in the first week due to sheer mechanical difficulty. Unfortunately if they did that a huge chunk of players would never see that content, and be even more upset than they are now. The current system is a compromise between the demands of the hardcore who want to have reasons to log in every week, and concessions to the more casual players who, lets be honest, were never going to stick around anyway.
Even though this doesn't excuse the lack of matchmaking in Nightfalls, I would also say it's a design problem with the raids.

You have to design content for the majority of your player base to enjoy. I would love to see a breakdown of the % of players who completed Vault of Glass, King's Fall, Leviathan, and now Last Wish. I guarantee it drops off considerably as you move from D1 Y1 to D2 Y2, because the raid requirements and mechanics are getting more complex and harder.

Mechanics getting more complicated is good...to a degree. I maintain that every player should be able to beat the normal version of a raid without having to be carried or learn a complicated breakdown of mechanics on Youtube (Riven fight). Back in D1, you could explain the Oracle encounter or Warpriest to somebody and after a few wipes, they would "get it" and you could make progress and move on. Hard Mode/Prestige and now the Triumphs (they've done a great job of this with Petra's Run) should be reserved for the hardcore/streamers and offer tantalizing rewards because of it.
I think we'd all like two versions of the raids; Bungie has said it takes too much resources to do that though. I think someone data mined a prestige version of Last Wish that had curated load outs, like the Y1 raid lairs. I think most people hated those though, as it led to weeks where the load out was terrible and nobody wanted to do the prestige version.

LW is totally carryable - you can fairly easily carry two people through it - but I would be fine with a casual version of the raid with dumbed down mechanics, and then a harder version that requires 6 players on point.

As for completion percentages, I think Leviathan peaked at around 20% on PSN before they made it free on PS+, which given that half of players didn't finish the game is pretty good. Last Wish is currently sitting at around 2% I think, but only 10% of players have even unlocked the Dreaming City. I think that's based on who player count, not just owners of Forsaken, so maybe like 10% of Forsaken owners have finished Last Wish. It's not a crazy small percentage given it's only been out for 3 months. I think on average, you're probably only ever going to see roughly 1/6 of players finish the raids. Fundamentally, most people don't want to step outside their comfort zone and talk to strangers on the Internet. That's the barrier stopping most people from raiding.
Bungie have completely lost my faith in them and Destiny. They don't understand what they want the game to be. A RPGFPS or FPS with lite RPG mechanics. Forsaken dispite the hype is far behind anything TTK did the only reason Forsaken got so much praise was because the bar was set low following the DLC fiasco of CoO.

Adding to this they have flipped the grind from easy to max but hollowed it out and the only carrot is a PL increase not a Gjally or IceBreaker just very poor amour pieces with perks that offer little impact in the actual game. The curated rolls are Bungies reaction to the exotics been underwhelming.

Then the most frustrating thing with Destiny is the RNG it's terrible. I've had endless Transfigurations but no curated NoB or a good RL. Exotics won't drop. The RnG wall completely killed Destiny for me.

I know it looks like Im a hater but after 2700hrs on D1 and 1200 in D2 I guess I'm done with it's current form and want Destiny to change and evolve. But if D3 continues with D2's setup then only the super hardcore will get it.
But the Forsaken exotics aren't underwhelming though. Each class has at least two amazing armour pieces, and there are quite a few standout weapons with the rest being good or fun. Also, I don't see how you can have double the time in Destiny that I do, and not yourself be super hardcore.
 
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Vilam

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,053
Still haven't done a single thing in Destiny that involves any action outside of the game. Even when I spent several hours a day playing it. I don't socialise with other Destiny players and I don't have any friends who play Destiny. Why would I even bother with that content? Also, why doesn't Bungie want me to play all the content in their game? Why does Bungie hate me? (The only reason I'm not playing Destiny 2 is that I'm a parent now and can't really play games I can't pause.)

You answered your own question. You've chosen to limit your own advancement in the game. Bungie isn't holding you back from playing all the content - you've done that to yourself.
 

Railgun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,148
Australia
Forsaken killed the game for casual players, I understand hardcore fans who play absolutely nothing but Destiny loved it but the grind is ridiculous. At least it was at launch once you hit the soft cap. Making infusing cost so much also sucked.