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Destiny 2: Forsaken |OT3| All Right, All Right, All Right.
- Thread starter Stalker
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Still working on the solar kills part for Luna. Still seems it's gonna be a good weapon after changes, so I'm finishing the quest.
Also, finally RNG blessed me with the getaway artist gauntlets for my warlock last night after a competitive match. Had a bit of fun with them in QP.
Also, finally RNG blessed me with the getaway artist gauntlets for my warlock last night after a competitive match. Had a bit of fun with them in QP.
There are a handful of weapons that have a .8 second time to kill without kill clip required. 150s can already 3-tap, this just allows Luna/NF to 3-tap with a body shot.
The weapon was a pain in the ass to obtain and after the nerf will not be worth the effort it took to get it.
Cammycakes and gigz weighing in:
Nerfing these weapons was not the right move.
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Luna user here. Pretty decent at crucible, too.
Luna's/NF nerfs were needed.
Their effective range thanks to MH being higher than most HCs, their better stability, and recoil, and their lack of bloom (on console, specifically) make them too strong of a choice.
Pinnacle crucible weapons are not supposed to be the best guns in the game. They are intended to fill a niche roll, that if leaned into, can be very powerful.
For example, Claymore/Broadsword. That gun is only great in the hands of a player that knows what they're doing -- one that can time their reloads and master laneing.
Mountaintop is great for laying traps down -- like trapping heavy, or trapping a corner.
There is, in general, strategic play required to make the guns shine.
Luna's/NF don't have that, and worse, they have some of the fastest TTKs in the game.
Instead of looking at this as a Nerf, folks should view it as all other weapons being brought up in viability.
Luna's/NF nerfs were needed.
Their effective range thanks to MH being higher than most HCs, their better stability, and recoil, and their lack of bloom (on console, specifically) make them too strong of a choice.
Pinnacle crucible weapons are not supposed to be the best guns in the game. They are intended to fill a niche roll, that if leaned into, can be very powerful.
For example, Claymore/Broadsword. That gun is only great in the hands of a player that knows what they're doing -- one that can time their reloads and master laneing.
Mountaintop is great for laying traps down -- like trapping heavy, or trapping a corner.
There is, in general, strategic play required to make the guns shine.
Luna's/NF don't have that, and worse, they have some of the fastest TTKs in the game.
Instead of looking at this as a Nerf, folks should view it as all other weapons being brought up in viability.
Have they specifically stated this? Pinnacle and niche are literally opposites, but I wouldn't be surprised considering it is Bungie.
I mean, if the other guns still have the same issues as before, won't they still go unused in favor of others? You don't "make other guns viable" by nerfing some and leaving other flawed ones as is.
I dont understand what galaxy these people live in.
The solution to two hand cannons dominating is not to buff other hand cannons. Buff something else. This is literally a view by people who only think hand cannons exist in the game.
It doesn't even make surface sense.
That's like saying in Vanilla d1 "you know what, Mida is OP, the problem is there's too much flinch on 180 RPM scouts". It's not even logical on the surface.
I think there's a bit of a misnomer here. They're pinnacle rewards. By that I mean, rewards for reaching the "pinnacle". Not that they're meant to be the absolute best in slot. Granted, this is my interpretation, but I think it tracks.
The only bit that upsets me is how these two guns will have no PvE relevance at all now. It was small to begin with, sure, but they could output decent damage for a primary. Not the case anymore.
Of course you make other guns viable by nerfing things. That's the entire function of a nerf. One thing is too good, so it is brought in-line with other things so that others will have a chance.
Except that's not happening at all. All the other 150s will still be bad on console because of the bloom; in fact why would you use a lightweight 150 when you can use a precision 150 that doesn't have bloom? If anything it will further cement NF/LH as the hand cannons of choice for PVP on console.
It would just make the situation more comparable to how it is on PC, where LH/NF aren't even the best hand cannons - Ace of Spades is. Even on PC you can outplay someone with AoS if you have a pulse rifle, which I know you like to use. You just have to control your engagement range, which I understand you have issues with.
No, or at least, nowhere near to the same degree as other HC archetypes.
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Joe had already left the raid team to Brendan Thorn IIRC. Edit: Joe's last raid was Last Wish.
Writer that left today is Jill Scharr.
Aw, shit. My bad!
HCs will still have issues, yes, but they are not the only weapons in the game. Luna's/NF have some of the craziest 3-tap potential in the sandbox -- 34 meters.
Most other HCs experience drop-off at 27-28 and have slower firing rates, more recoil, and better target acquisition.
I don't understand people who are defending these guns. I bled for my Luna's in comp primarily solo. I know it was a huge investment. The gun is still broken. It needed tweaked.
1. Ace is an exotic.
2. Ace's current TTK is much higher than Luna's/NF.
3. Ace is more "difficult" to use compared to Luna's. More recoil, mor
The other HC's don't have better target aquisition. They have bloom which makes your bullets go in a completely random direction. You can pace your shots, but in that case your TTK is terrible and you're better off using another weapon. The lack of bloom is why 180s are so good.
Your point about AoS being harder to use is fair, but the point is that the lack of bloom on PC means that it's considered better than LH/NF for players who are skilled enough to use it. The fact that it has a higher TTK is irrelevant because it has much more range, meaning you can win fights outside of LH/NF engagement range.
Hand cannon bloom is one of the worst things in Destiny. It's why HCs stopped being used Y2 of D1. It makes sense for fully automatic weapons like ARs or SMGs because the DPS loss of a few bullets going astray isn't too punishing. In the case of HCs though, it creates RNG gunfights.
IIRC it was remove because the invitation involves killing Vex on the Tangle Shore....and Tangle shore doesn't have any Vex except for PoE lol
Oh no :( What is going on? What the writer mostly involved on? I really like the path the lore and narrative was going with forsaken and season of the drifter ;/
Jill Scharr had been around since TTK and was the narrative lead for Forsaken IIRC.
Meh. More conjecture. Ultimately, we'll see soon enough. Bungie reserves the right to buff them again if need be, so we'll find out how this change goes soon enough. Hopefully Bungie is doing the testing necessary to make sure they get things in a good place. That's all we can do. If it isn't, we can provide that feedback.
But yes this will likely solidify Ace as the best hand cannon of any type on PC where it was already as good as or better than LH and NF. And The Last Word, of course. I expect that MagHowl weapons will be the most consistent 150s and the best legendary hand cannons, period. Vigil, Rations and similar have the classic recoil which makes them prone to missed shots.
I do agree that doing something about bloom would have been better given that appears to be the main issue and this was all a non issue on PC. Having never played on console, I can't identify but most console posters here have been complaining about bloom for a long time. On PC, these weapons never felt especially out of line.
Xur has the invitation, you just can't complete it because the part that requires Vex kills on Tangled Shore doesn't work.
Well, considering how these rewards have been designed so far in where they are very good, I think it's fair to say the weapons are supposed to be pinnacle. They're hard to get and most of the population won't get them. If they're not meant to be best in slot, what's the point?
Yes. The bloom isn't as bad as the other archetypes, but if you fire them at their listed ROF they become much more inaccurate.
Poor poor hand cannons, guys they're so picked on (by picked on we mean always way better than anything else)!
So much crying over a ttk going from .67>.80 (still like the best ttk in the game and there's zero doubt Lunas will still completely dominate on console)
And this is 100% all just because it's a hand cannon getting "nerfed". When MIda was strong everybody wanted it nerfed and when it did get nerfed nobody complained.
Bygones percent has just kept going lower and lower for months. Wouldn't be surprised to see the only non hand cannon primary in the top 5 drop off completely soon. Probably Thorn, The Last Word, Not Forgotten, or another hand cannon will take that spot.
BTW what other guns have a super powerful perk that doesn't require a kill besides Lunas Howl/Not Forgotten? Recluse doesn't. Memento maori is also pretty insanely OP. You're doing almost 100 damage a shot, and unlike kill clip or master of arms it lasts forever once procced until you fire those rounds. Memento Mori is a good example of a perk that's so powerful it would be absurd on any other class of weapon, but is somehow ok to be on a hand cannon
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I came up with what I feel is a decent idea:
The idea of "Crucible Bonds." Essentially what a crucible bond is, is that in order to use pinnacle weapons in crucible, you have to use a token which makes it useable for x amount of time. You have to apply this "buff" to each weapon, so it'll be 3x as costly to use 3 crucible weapons.
Essentially the benefit of this idea is:
A. No need for nerfs. The weapons are acknowledged as powerful. And get infinite use for PVE.
B. The economics at play make using these weapons a strategic thing. You don't want to waste bonds just to sweat in casual play and make it a miserable experience for other players (as is currently happening). You want to save bonds for the tougher teams in competitive playlists such as comp or trials.
C. Discourages account recoveries. Maybe you pay handsomly for a not forgotten, but you'll legitimately need to be good enough to have acquired it to commonly have enough bonds to use it for certain activities. Otherwise, you're going to have to keep paying people to earn you bonds.
Difficulty with this: Having quick reaction to the bond economy and hopefully launching the system in a good state. Bonds should be rare such that basically only streamers would have enough to comfortably use them in quickplay.
I also suggest tiered pricing for bonds. Legend guns: (Basically only not forgotten at this point) = 2 bonds to equip. Fabled guns (lunas howl, mountain top, recluse) cost 1 each.
I think something like this may be necessary to enjoy strong pinnacle weapons worth chasing that don't also destroy the community in the process. I don't think trying to nerf weapons on a case by case basis is a good idea. Easier to get people excited about strong weapons to chase, while also having to be strategic about when to equip them.
The idea of "Crucible Bonds." Essentially what a crucible bond is, is that in order to use pinnacle weapons in crucible, you have to use a token which makes it useable for x amount of time. You have to apply this "buff" to each weapon, so it'll be 3x as costly to use 3 crucible weapons.
Essentially the benefit of this idea is:
A. No need for nerfs. The weapons are acknowledged as powerful. And get infinite use for PVE.
B. The economics at play make using these weapons a strategic thing. You don't want to waste bonds just to sweat in casual play and make it a miserable experience for other players (as is currently happening). You want to save bonds for the tougher teams in competitive playlists such as comp or trials.
C. Discourages account recoveries. Maybe you pay handsomly for a not forgotten, but you'll legitimately need to be good enough to have acquired it to commonly have enough bonds to use it for certain activities. Otherwise, you're going to have to keep paying people to earn you bonds.
Difficulty with this: Having quick reaction to the bond economy and hopefully launching the system in a good state. Bonds should be rare such that basically only streamers would have enough to comfortably use them in quickplay.
I also suggest tiered pricing for bonds. Legend guns: (Basically only not forgotten at this point) = 2 bonds to equip. Fabled guns (lunas howl, mountain top, recluse) cost 1 each.
I think something like this may be necessary to enjoy strong pinnacle weapons worth chasing that don't also destroy the community in the process. I don't think trying to nerf weapons on a case by case basis is a good idea. Easier to get people excited about strong weapons to chase, while also having to be strategic about when to equip them.
Hey look, I can play the same fucking game.Poor poor hand cannons, guys they're so picked on (by picked on we mean always way better than anything else)!
So much crying over a ttk going from .67>.80 (still like the best ttk in the game and there's zero doubt Lunas will still completely dominate on console)
And this is 100% all just because it's a hand cannon getting "nerfed". When MIda was strong everybody wanted it nerfed and when it did get nerfed nobody complained.
Bygones percent has just kept going lower and lower for months. Wouldn't be surprised to see the only non hand cannon primary in the top 5 drop off completely soon. Probably Thorn, The Last Word, Not Forgotten, or another hand cannon will take that spot.
BTW what other guns have a super powerful perk that doesn't require a kill besides Lunas Howl/Not Forgotten? Recluse doesn't. Memento maori is also pretty insanely OP. You're doing almost 100 damage a shot, and unlike kill clip or master of arms it lasts forever once procced until you fire those rounds. Memento Mori is a good example of a perk that's so powerful it would be absurd on any other class of weapon, but is somehow ok to be on a hand cannon
Bygones beats out Ace by a large margin. Poor poor bygones am I right?
Where are all the 140 and 150 that is not Ace?
Hey look, I can play the same fucking game.
Bygones beats out Ace by a large margin. Poor poor bygones am I right?
Where are all the 140 and 150 that is not Ace?
That's weird. These stats are weird as they differ everywhere and I dont necessarily know what they're measuring.
That said that chart tells you the top kinetic archetype is hand cannon (I would have thought it would be shotgun since you'd expect Lunas+Shotgun). The top energy archetype is also...hand cannon LOL. It also shows you the overwhelming popular loadout, Lunas and Dust Rock.
Also if you add those percents up it's crazy. Luna 28%+Trust 15% +another 7% (so that's 50%) for other hand cannons, vs 11% for bygones and .35% (?) for Perdition....so 11% for pulses. And no Ar's. No scout rifles. Or we can count 6 hand cannons, 2 pulses on the list. The rest are specials.
Come on man, these numbers are just stupid dominant for hand cannons.
I dont see them changing much with this so called "nerf" either. Maybe Thorn will gain some more traction, and I feel like TLW will grow a lot, but I dont know why, since TLW already has the fastest ttk. At least SMG and pulse should be able to compete with Luna's better.
You're asking about other hand cannon archetypes...wheres any archetype of AR? Where's any archetype of scout? Where's any pulse that's not a 390 RPM? Not every archetype of hand cannon can dominate, geez. There's just not room. It's just like pulses. They are 2nd to HC's. But it's the 390 and 4 burts that proliferate within that. You're always going to have that.
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I wouldn't use a Youtuber as basis for discussing about the number of employees leaving a company
I know some of you don't like the subreddit, but here are two posts that give a rational explanation over Joe Blackburn and Jill Scharr's departure:
Joe Blackburn's departure
Jill Scharr
To put it short, core production of D2 is wrapping up. And its common for management to cycle out between big projects. Especially for a big as a company as Bungie
And most importantly, Bungie doesn't owe anyone an explanation for the departures.
Couple of things: is the pc population still good? I haven't played since November on PC but my brother in law wants to play with his new PC so I'm tempted to get back in.
But with that said, does forsaken ever go on sale? I have bass game plus first two expansions but damn. Forsaken is $55cdn or $92 for forsaken with pass. Crazy expensive.
But with that said, does forsaken ever go on sale? I have bass game plus first two expansions but damn. Forsaken is $55cdn or $92 for forsaken with pass. Crazy expensive.
I don't know what to think right this second, but let me make a clickbait cash grab video anyway
I play on the PC nearly every day and it seems strong. Not having any issues finding groups or seeing folks around for Public Events.
Thanks. Can you link that to all the youtubers and conspiracy theorists as well? :P
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