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Senator Toadstool

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,651
UK seems weirdly susceptible to TERF rhetoric
I honestly don't get it. The US is extremely bigoted but culturally seems far less culturally up in arms, at least politically, about trans issues. Hell neil gorsuch was like "yeah US law protects them" last term and nobody really cared on the bigoted right.

not to downplay real problems in the US, but the UK has this weird beef.


guess it's time to give to mermaids again...
 

Goat Mimicry

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,920
Hiding her bigotry by pretending to be incapable of performing basic research, sooo brave. She's a chickenshit coward of a bigot and so is the gutless weasel who nominated her for this shit. No opinion on the issue my ass, there's no other reason to nominate a blog post that's poorly sourced and structured.
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,051
I honestly don't get it. The US is extremely bigoted but culturally seems far less culturally up in arms, at least politically, about trans issues. Hell neil gorsuch was like "yeah US law protects them" last term and nobody really cared on the bigoted right.

not to downplay real problems in the US, but the UK has this weird beef.

guess it's time to give to mermaids again...
One of the issues, as far as I see it, is that these screeds have the veneer of intellectualism. They're not 'I don't like trans people' but attempt to re-contextualise more progressive policy and ideas such as 'women need safe spaces from men' and then attempt to flip that script by then refusing to accept that trans women are also women. Then, to justify this line of argument, they have to make trans women seem dangerous, usually by fixating on utterly weird things such as public restrooms. There's also the sleight-of-hand of pretending as though the criticism of them is wholly or even mostly misogynistic and thus rarely engage with any of the counter-arguments presented to them by instead suggesting the majority of their critics just 'hate women.'

What this basically means is that it's framed as though the 'progressive' or 'left wing' thing to do in these situations is to protect women from; a) invasions into their spaces and; b) the misogynistic abuse they face when they're 'brave' enough to speak out. They don't feel like they're attacking vulnerable people, they feel like they're defending them.

As for the 'why is it mainly British feminists' its largely down to the differences between how American and British feminism have evolved throughout the years, this article is a fantastic read.
 

Phellps

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,798
The deluge of hatred that she faced before writing this blog made it brave, and it was nothing compared to what came after. Talking about bravery, so too, by the way, was Suzanne Moore's engrossing, long, personal essay for Unherd on why she left the Guardian.
We should all applaud bravery in writers - even those with whom we disagree.
Aw, poor millionaire bigot.
 

CaviarMeths

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,655
Western Canada
Damn, and that list of authors who endorsed it and then then backtracked after being called out for it already used up the "aw gee shucks I never actually read this thing I co-signed, sorry guys" excuse. The nominator will have to think of a new one.
 

Qasiel

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,330
We should all applaud bravery in writers - even those with whom we disagree.

Hitler wrote Mein Kampf. Should we applaud his bravery too? Fuck outta here...

I have no idea who this self-serving wanker who wrote this is, but you bet your arse I'm complaining. If they're employed by the BBC I don't want any of my license money paying this dickhead a salary.
 

Dmax3901

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,864
Honestly so absurdly gross. Utterly shameful.

So blatantly and confidently on the wrong side of history.
 

Senator Toadstool

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,651
One of the issues, as far as I see it, is that these screeds have the veneer of intellectualism. They're not 'I don't like trans people' but attempt to re-contextualise more progressive policy and ideas such as 'women need safe spaces from men' and then attempt to flip that script by then refusing to accept that trans women are also women. Then, to justify this line of argument, they have to make trans women seem dangerous, usually by fixating on utterly weird things such as public restrooms. There's also the sleight-of-hand of pretending as though the criticism of them is wholly or even mostly misogynistic and thus rarely engage with any of the counter-arguments presented to them by instead suggesting the majority of their critics just 'hate women.'

What this basically means is that it's framed as though the 'progressive' or 'left wing' thing to do in these situations is to protect women from; a) invasions into their spaces and; b) the misogynistic abuse they face when they're 'brave' enough to speak out. They don't feel like they're attacking vulnerable people, they feel like they're defending them.

As for the 'why is it mainly British feminists' its largely down to the differences between how American and British feminism have evolved throughout the years, this article is a fantastic read.
great post! thanks for the link, will dig in!
 

Senator Toadstool

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,651
Hitler wrote Mein Kampf. Should we applaud his bravery too? Fuck outta here...

I have no idea who this self-serving wanker who wrote this is, but you bet your arse I'm complaining. If they're employed by the BBC I don't want any of my license money paying this dickhead a salary.
he eloquently, in brilliant german prose, told us his beef with the jews
 

GTAce

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,160
Bonn, Germany
Hitler wrote Mein Kampf. Should we applaud his bravery too? Fuck outta here...

I have no idea who this self-serving wanker who wrote this is, but you bet your arse I'm complaining. If they're employed by the BBC I don't want any of my license money paying this dickhead a salary.
Godwin level 9001!

I 100% agree.

Fuck this attitude of putting the agressor into the role of the victim.
 

stupei

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,801
Really worth remembering that Rowling didn't say a single word about Black Lives Matter this year, but she felt the need to drop her transphobic diary entry right at the start of pride month. Just so telling of her character that in 2020, trans women having rights is the thing the white billionaire thinks is the real injustice facing the world.

I say trans women because she only expressed fear about women while using trans men as props to project her own experiences onto. Of course that's also gross and indicative of a person who does not really view other people as fully realized individuals in their own right so much as extensions of her own ego.
 

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,617
Brazil
Really worth remembering that Rowling didn't say a single word about Black Lives Matter this year, but she felt the need to drop her transphobic diary entry right at the start of pride month. Just so telling of her character that in 2020, trans women having rights is the thing the white billionaire thinks is the real injustice facing the world.

I say trans women because she only expressed fear about women while using trans men as props to project her own experiences onto. Of course that's also gross and indicative of a person who does not really view other people as fully realized individuals in their own right so much as extensions of her own ego.


www.instagram.com

Tess Gattuso on Instagram: "jk rowling’s publicist tries to stop her from tweeting “TERF wars.” follow/donate to @forthegworls if you can."

9,016 likes, 203 comments - tessplease on June 11, 2020: "jk rowling’s publicist tries to stop her from tweeting “TERF wars.” follow/donate to @forthegworls if you can."
 
Oct 30, 2017
13,150
Your Imagination
Complaint Department Reply to me:

Dear Mr. Snuffleupagus,

Thank you for getting in touch about our article 'The winners: The 2020 Russell Prize for best writing' (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-55350905).

Amol Rajan repeatedly made clear he was not taking a view on the subject of JK Rowling's essay and acknowledged the severity of offence that some people had taken to what she'd written.

He did not detract from that when he objectively praised the writing style, her honesty in talking about her own experiences of domestic and sexual abuse, and the bravery required to express a viewpoint knowing it will lead to further online abuse.

Thank you once again for getting in touch.

The majority of the BBC is good, but seems there are some shitheads in the Complaints Dept. too!
 

Doctor_Thomas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,648
JK Rowling is just at a stage where she can say anything and people will defend it and defend her. Too many people also dismiss this as being because she wrote children's books that a lot of people have fond memories and connections to, it's not. It's because the UK, as demonstrated by the BBC stock complaints response, has a transphobia issue.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,875
I think it's more that bigots have found safety in numbers. They have been legitimised via right-wing world leaders, the rise of fascism, public figures like Rowling proudly displaying it.

These things are being pushed as a simple "difference of opinion" by so many people that it's emboldening a lot of anti-progress rhetoric.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,565
Ireland
I made a complaint to the BBC using that form, and I got a response.

Dear [my name]

Thank you for getting in touch about our article 'The winners: The 2020 Russell Prize for best writing' (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-55350905).

Amol Rajan repeatedly made clear he was not taking a view on the subject of JK Rowling's essay and acknowledged the severity of offence that some people had taken to what she'd written.

He did not detract from that when he objectively praised the writing style, her honesty in talking about her own experiences of domestic and sexual abuse, and the bravery required to express a viewpoint knowing it will lead to further online abuse.

Thank you once again for getting in touch.

Kind regards,

BBC Complaints Team
 

Woylie

Member
May 9, 2018
1,849
I made a complaint to the BBC using that form, and I got a response.

The "viewpoint" she's expressing is "trans people are delusional and sinister" so... brave isn't really the word I'd pick.

This whole thing is a really obvious dogwhistle to transphobes. Fuck the BBC for trying justify it, even if they're just trying to cover their own asses.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,665
The thing I truly can't get past is that, even bigotry aside, Rowling's "essay" is not well written. The only way you could conceive of awarding such bad writing is if you were so firmly in favor of the bigotry that you overlooked it.

It's just really, really telling that her disjointed diary entry gets propped up as this really insightful piece.
Yep, it's ridiculous and very telling. Her article isn't written in any particularly noteworthy way and as such it's impossible to disconnect this nomination for the 'writing' from an endorsement of the content. The author's description of her only reaffirms that message. The line
I take absolutely no view whatsoever on the issues that she raises.
I do take an issue on abuse and trolling,
is particularly telling about the author's view; clearly writing a hateful transphobic essay is something the author has 'no view' on yet criticising an author for those hateful views is something the author does take issue with, blatantly ignoring the abusive content of Rowling's essay.

The author trying to repeatedly emphasise they don't endorse the content is a very thin veil when the rest of their piece makes their view very clear.
 

Opposable

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,367
The whole thing about being brave enough to speak your mind is the same rhetoric from Jordan Peterson and his fans. I'm not sure it's something to blindly celebrate and encourage
 

Lion

Banned
Jul 7, 2020
593
User Banned (Permanent): Downplaying Bigotry
Funny that he quotes Enoch, because he definitely would not have extended Amol or his family any warm welcomes as immigrants to the UK...
Enoch Powell was extremely intelligent or even brilliant. He achieved a double starred First in classics and he was full professor at 25.
He spoke a lot of languages including fluent Urdu, and held Indian culture in great respect.

Just because he started playing the race card later in life doesn't mean that everything he said/wrote must be discarded.
 
OP
OP
It’s Time To Go
Dec 2, 2017
20,585
Enoch Powell was extremely intelligent or even brilliant. He achieved a double starred First in classics and he was full professor at 25.
He spoke a lot of languages including fluent Urdu, and held Indian culture in great respect.

Just because he started playing the race card later in life doesn't mean that everything he said/wrote must be discarded.
lmao, are you really defending Enoch Powell?
 

VegiHam

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,586
Enoch Powell was extremely intelligent or even brilliant. He achieved a double starred First in classics and he was full professor at 25.
He spoke a lot of languages including fluent Urdu, and held Indian culture in great respect.

Just because he started playing the race card later in life doesn't mean that everything he said/wrote must be discarded.
Bro seriously? The article makes reference to his most famously racist speech. Like it's explicitly the quality of his racist rhetoric he's being praised for here.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,532

Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,186
Enoch Powell was extremely intelligent or even brilliant. He achieved a double starred First in classics and he was full professor at 25.
He spoke a lot of languages including fluent Urdu, and held Indian culture in great respect.

Just because he started playing the race card later in life doesn't mean that everything he said/wrote must be discarded.
Nothing he has said is a revelation only made by him, so I'd look for someone else who has made similar statements instead of signal boosting such a shitty person.
 

Senator Toadstool

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,651
Enoch Powell was extremely intelligent or even brilliant. He achieved a double starred First in classics and he was full professor at 25.
He spoke a lot of languages including fluent Urdu, and held Indian culture in great respect.

Just because he started playing the race card later in life doesn't mean that everything he said/wrote must be discarded.
dude you defending enoch powell?
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,109
Enoch Powell was extremely intelligent or even brilliant. He achieved a double starred First in classics and he was full professor at 25.
He spoke a lot of languages including fluent Urdu, and held Indian culture in great respect.

Just because he started playing the race card later in life doesn't mean that everything he said/wrote must be discarded.

Are you fucking kidding me? He was a white nationalist. Who cares if he was "intelligent?"
 

gogosox82

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,385
Enoch Powell was extremely intelligent or even brilliant. He achieved a double starred First in classics and he was full professor at 25.
He spoke a lot of languages including fluent Urdu, and held Indian culture in great respect.

Just because he started playing the race card later in life doesn't mean that everything he said/wrote must be discarded.
Why are you defending a nazi?
 

Lion

Banned
Jul 7, 2020
593
Why are you defending a nazi?
He very clearly was not a Nazi. He volunteered to fight against the Nazi's in ww2. He did not believe in inherent superiority /inferiority of races. He certainly wasn't a fascist, his views on things like homosexuality and the death penalty were liberal for the time.
He was most definitely anti-immigration. It is debated whether he was actually racist. Personally I think he was racist.
Besides, I was not defending Enoch Powell (my family are immigrants), I was defending the authors choice to quote him. He was a very significant figure in British politics.