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Dictator

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
4,930
Berlin, 'SCHLAND
It's not really necessary for a game with largely static world lighting. Even lightmapped geometry is probably fine for a game like this, although for content authoring purposes we're gravitating away from baked solutions in general. If there was a live day-night cycle or more dramatic shifts in lighting, it would make more sense, but using cheaper techniques for scene illumination to reach the 4k60fps target, especially with the game still looking truly next-gen as it is, is fine.

You're not gonna see every next gen game use real time raytraced illumination just because the capability is there, even on PC. Technical direction is still going to make the call whether these things are necessary or not. We're past the period of game engines needing to pull out every stop just because.

It's probably worth mentioning that UE5's new full scene lighting doesn't use raytracing.
Well... It does not use Hardware ray tracing. It still traced sdfs andscreen space and for Light... And is also very expensive (as much as hwrt basically).
 
May 24, 2019
22,192
I feel like the armor and swords in Souls games are usually so "worn" that you shouldn't really be seeing detailed reflections, or at least they wouldn't be so apparent to be worth implementing RT instead of using those resources elsewhere.
 
Jan 21, 2019
2,902
It can but it is not usually. Besides metro every game I played with RT was just reflections and imo it doesn't worth the hit on performance since on action you almost can't notice these reflections.
Also, it's not like it makes Metro the undisputable best looking open-world game thanks to RT. Pretty sure most people would agree that Red Dead's lighting looks more impressive most of the time.
 

Sha_96

Member
Jan 22, 2019
667
Yep. "Overrated". Sometimes this forum can produce some stunningly silly comments depending on how big of a fan a subset of people are of something.

Well if raytracing is gonna half the performance then for me it's not worth it, you might not agree with the word overrated but I don't think it gives you the right to say my comment is "stunningly silly"
 

ItIsOkBro

Happy New Year!!
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,510
I'm watching the gameplay trailer from a month ago trying to figure out where ray tracing would have a noticable impact. Maybe all the hitsparks/fire effects reflecting on the armor?
 
Jan 21, 2019
2,902

JigglesBunny

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
31,117
Chicago
If you've seen any of the gameplay footage released so far, you'd know that this isn't a particularly big bummer. This is seriously one of the best looking games ever made and we haven't even seen it running our own systems or on our own displays yet.
 

Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
23,576
If you've seen any of the gameplay footage released so far, you'd know that this isn't a particularly big bummer. This is seriously one of the best looking games ever made and we haven't even seen it running our own systems or on our own displays yet.
This is what I really don't get about the people complaining about this. You could make an argument for the game being the best looking game of all time, but now that you learned it doesn't have raytracing it suddenly... doesn't look as good? What?
 

Hey Please

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
22,824
Not America
Well if raytracing is gonna half the performance then for me it's not worth it, you might not agree with the word overrated but I don't think it gives you the right to say my comment is "stunningly silly"

As a Canadian: I am sorry but...

1XZIIPW.gif


Edit: Also my comment was directed at the sentiment that was expressed by the collection of comments the poster had quoted.
 
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Jiraiya

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,283
I have no intention of playing this title....but ray tracing would've been great. I just like what the technology does for scenes.
 
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
This is what I really don't get about the people complaining about this. You could make an argument for the game being the best looking game of all time, but now that you learned it doesn't have raytracing it suddenly... doesn't look as good? What?
If anything, people should be pleasantly surprised that it isn't even using raytracing yet it looks much better than games using raytraching.

This game is by far the best looking game on next gen so far. Even more impressive is the fact all the footage we saw is running on 60 fps with this graphics. Like seriously, how is that not impressive?
 

Gunztrix

Member
Oct 28, 2017
147
I have a 3080 and don't use RT in games that have RT. I've found that the performance drop is not worth it.
 

Plax

Member
Nov 23, 2019
2,819
I think Ray tracing probably has a way to go before it's efficient enough to be worth the pay off. I am confident though, that we'll see widespread implementation as the generation progresses. Easy prediction I know, but I'm not surprised that some developers aren't implementing it yet
 

kanuuna

Member
Oct 26, 2017
726
The idea of a 30 FPS capped quality mode without advanced features like raytracing seems completely pointless. Game looks very good in the promotional material running in the 60 FPS mode to be sure, but I'm kind of surprised they felt the need to follow through with including another performance profile option beyond that.
 

Heidern

Member
Oct 30, 2017
644
Connecticut
I've always felt like this is the most next-gen looking game that has been shown so far, so I don't really see a big issue here. Sure RT would be nice, but it would probably make everything look a lot worse if they had to expend a lot of resources on that one feature.
 

JaseC64

Enlightened
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,008
Strong Island NY
No RT doesn't mean the game looks bad, it just means the game could have looked even better. I also thought having RT would have made a great example of the PS5's power but it seems to be the opposite.


Which also shows why aiming for native 4K is silly.


Depends on what you care about I guess but I assume most of the performance for excluding RT went to native 4K so just a resolution bump. I'd personally would have preferred 1440 + RT over 4K + no RT.
Alexx, sometimes developers choose certain features on their games because they have a particular vision. To get that vision executed properly, they may take things in or out depending on their budget, man power and time. They dont make games and hit check boxes for enthusiasts to brag about in forums.

If you took a sec to read Gavin's response, when they began making the game, they did so without RT in mind because it was likely still not a feature to be finalized until later. So they opted for their own set of features while delivering a magnificent revisioning of the original classic.

In a sense we are getting a bit ahead of ourselves. The gameplay we have seen so far points to a promising and impressive remaster.

I dont think even 4K native / 60 will be standard this generation yet we have people thinking otherwise. RT is also something people should not expect on every AAA game. If you keep tabs of PC gaming, RT is still very taxing on the most expensive rigs. (Even if you can run it, it would cost you more than $500 to do so on a GPU alone) All i will say is that RT was not something 99% of gamers were even thinking about prior to leaks of the systems. For me personally it was a nice surprise that it's being supported on a $500 console(s). Realistic i do not expect RT on every game and neither should everyone. Its a cool feature but it does not define what next gen is about.
 

Bunzy

Banned
Nov 1, 2018
2,205
i mean we are literally complaining about what is one of the most next gen games we have seen in our lives. Era continues to Era
 

VanWinkle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,094
Have you read through this thread?
I see conflicting reports.
Just from people going off the first time we ever heard about the game, in the PS Blog post that had a bunch of blurbs on all the different games shown in the June showcase. That's the only time they've ever officially mentioned ray-tracing, which already made it seem unlikely, since other games with ray-tracing make it VERY known.
 

jfkgoblue

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,650
What is even the point of RT. We are not even at the start of the gen but it feels like devs would rather get more details in and other things that push the hardware. Does raytracing maybe save devs time? Or maybe only use it for certain aspects of lighting. But if that's the case then i don't get all the hype behind it.
RT is the future of lighting, look at games like Minecraft RTX with full path finding RT and it looks so incredible. The tech just isn't quite there yet
 

Lukas Taves

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,713
Brazil
You know what else didn't have RT? That UE5 demo.
Yeah, the one that looks leagues better than anything else you can play on any system.
The ue5 demo didn't have raytracing in the sense that is being accelerated by hardware in current gpus, yeah, but it a fairly similar approach, where the most difference is that the scene is approximate as cubes and then raytraced instead of the intersection trees that the RT cores produce.
 

Traxus

Spirit Tamer
Member
Jan 2, 2018
5,197
Fuck apologists. As a next-gen console feature, that is not good to hear.

Launch line up and all that, let's hope that isn't a sign of things to come.
The idea of a 30 FPS capped quality mode without advanced features like raytracing seems completely pointless. Game looks very good in the promotional material running in the 60 FPS mode to be sure, but I'm kind of surprised they felt the need to follow through with including another performance profile option beyond that.
No RT doesn't mean the game looks bad, it just means the game could have looked even better. I also thought having RT would have made a great example of the PS5's power but it seems to be the opposite.
TNaoJqD_d.webp


You guys have to be trolling.
 

Niks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,299
Preorder cancelled...

lmao, who cares, it looks great.

edit: some of the comments here are downright embarrassing...jfc