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Demon’s Souls developer and head of studio calls their 30fps mode a “slideshow” (when switching from 60fps)
- Thread starter 60fps
- Start date
I played and loved many games at 30 FPS. If a game is 39 FPS and can look and control as good as The Last of Us Part II, then give it to me all day. I love 60+, but it's not a huge deal for me. I often wonder how if some people remember the PS1 / N64 days of framerates.
I'm not trying to diminish the difference between the two.
But there is a certain effect, when the scene instantly switches from a higher to a lower, which make it seem worse then it is. It takes a while for your brain/eyes to adjust. After that, or if you start playing with 30 it is much better. Albeit still much worse then 60 ofc.
I think 60 is lovely. But 30 is not thaaat bad, and switching between the two back and forth is not a fair comparison.
Yeah I'm not playing anything at 30fps in 2020. Idk how amazing it looks, 30 feels horrible now. Especially you could just lower the resolution and keep the graphics up high in most games . 4K is a waste if it's not a decent frame rate.
I don't need a locked 60 in everything but I need a lot more than 30
I don't need a locked 60 in everything but I need a lot more than 30
LMAO
I didn't realize real life was in 60fps. Are we transcending reality when we play 120/144 fps games?
Just sliding right into the next dimension.
I'm not even trying to be mean or anything I just find this notion funny as hell
It doesn't have to be in the same game, because I sometimes play couple of games at a time and its quite a reminder when you switch between different games running at different frame rates. Like when I was playing AC: Odyssey at 2560x1440 around 30fps vs some other game at 60fps, I'd wish I had hardware to run the 30fps game at 60fps at the same resolution/settings.
After some tests on Spiderman, I feel the same. When I log on, if I spend an hour at 30 it feels pretty good, especially coming from a whole gen of similarly smooth-feeling 30fps Sony exclusives. Then I can switch to 60 for doing open world stuff and feel the benefit. It's nice to have the options and both feel pretty good to me. 60 is obviously superior but for some of the fights and interior scenes, being able to catch the action being reflected on the surfaces is pretty neat.
OP
OP
4 years ago the PS4 Pro was released and "performance modes" were introduced to consoles for the first time and continued to become more prominent - Today you can even choose to prefer "performance modes" in your PS5's system settings.
In 2-3 years, if anything, we will have even more "performance modes".
- 30 FPS makes some people very motion sick.
- 60 FPS greatly reduces or eliminates motion sickness for many people.
Keep an optional 30 FPS mode for people that want it, I don't care about that. But all games should be built for 60 FPS or higher.
How would that even work though? If a developer builds a game based on running at 60fps then they've already committed to reducing artistic quality vs 30fps as default to meet the higher frame-rate as the standard - in which case 30fps likely won't look much better.
However, if you build for 30fps you can give people the best technical experience (in terms of graphics, lighting, resolution etc) and then scale down those aspects to run at 60fps.
Game production costs are too high as it is, so that's an additional benefit.
It's easy to turn up the resolution, and many other options to improve the image quality at 30 FPS.
It can be very difficult to get a game built for 30 FPS running at 60 without significant cutbacks on a console.
To me that's more of a compromise. If you're building for 60fps you're likely building for a lower resolution and therefore your art assets will be made for that resolution. Unless you have some kind of DLSS solution there's no real way to improve them and the best resolution and lighting won't fix that.
Granted I'm not a developer but to me it seems that it would be easier to start with the most graphically impressive version and cut back elements to hit a better frame-rate than start with the faster version and then try and upgrade everything else to make the switch worthwhile.
The OP is certainly reaching with his takes. He hates 30 fps? Fine. Go get a new PC before you get disappointed with your new console.
Also, as PC and switch gamer... In an ideal world 30 fps is just an option and not the only option, however 30 fps with good frame pacing is totally playable and works just fine. BotW is (for me) the best game ever, and while making it 60 fps would only make it better, it also does not ruin the experience at all.
Also you will have a hard time convincing here of the 30 fps = bad game...
BotW
Bloodborne
GOW
TLoU
Nier Automata
This.
Also, as PC and switch gamer... In an ideal world 30 fps is just an option and not the only option, however 30 fps with good frame pacing is totally playable and works just fine. BotW is (for me) the best game ever, and while making it 60 fps would only make it better, it also does not ruin the experience at all.
Also you will have a hard time convincing here of the 30 fps = bad game...
BotW
Bloodborne
GOW
TLoU
Nier Automata
This.
Man, a lot of you are going to be disappointed come 2022 / 2023.
If performance modes are still a regular occurrence in 2-3 years, you're going to see unlocked framerates far more than 60fps.
For me, it's always worked like this:
If I've only ever played a specific game at 30 FPS, I can deal pretty well. However, if I've been able to play that game at 60 FPS, it's usually tough for me to go back.
I love Spidey on my base PS4, but when I switch from Performance mode to Fidelity mode on Spidey Remastered, it feels completely wrong.
If I've only ever played a specific game at 30 FPS, I can deal pretty well. However, if I've been able to play that game at 60 FPS, it's usually tough for me to go back.
I love Spidey on my base PS4, but when I switch from Performance mode to Fidelity mode on Spidey Remastered, it feels completely wrong.
It's a very weird notion that games will suddenly stop having a 1080p/60fps mode in a few years. There's no reason performance and graphics modes can't co-exist so I'm not sure why there's so many people claiming we're going back to 30 fps for all games.
Cross-gen will start to phase out. You'll still have your Bluepoints, your Retros, your EPD Tokyos pushing for 60fps - most developers will opt for higher resolutions and visual effects at 30. Some will continue to offer performance modes, but franerates will be unlocked. Most games won't hit 60fps consistently.
OP
OP
Wow, thanks.
For you.
To me, 30fps looks and feels horrible, no matter how good the frame pacing or motion blur might be. Just scrolling through a menu at 30 feels laggy. This is why smartphones don't run at 30fps - because it feels laggy.
On the other side, I guess we could also go back to play at 20fps for even better graphical fidelity. It really shouldn't matter, because 20fps is totally playable and works just fine, as proven during the N64 era.
Also:
Yeah.
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Nah, check it out right from a 60hz frame-advance:
The Metal Slug games often enter slow motion (2 most famously), but everything about this capture from the original game suggests they were deliberately giving themselves a big timing window and updating the screen every other frame. They aren't 60fps games, ever.
I mean... I get it. If you jump between a 30FPS game and a 60FPS game the former will feel like a slideshow at first. Personally, I'd love to see 60FPS options for every game.
With that said, I never understand the folks who say they can't play at 30FPS at all. It takes me a few minutes at maximum to re-adjust and then it looks "normal" again. Obviously nowhere near as smooth as 60, but it doesn't look jarring once you get used to it.
With that said, I never understand the folks who say they can't play at 30FPS at all. It takes me a few minutes at maximum to re-adjust and then it looks "normal" again. Obviously nowhere near as smooth as 60, but it doesn't look jarring once you get used to it.
He's right, but for the wrong reason. The reason their 30fps feels like a slide show is because they have a shitty motion blur solution so it feels absolutely awful. 60fps > 30fps, but not all 30fps games are equal in how they feel at all.
It's not the same in all cases. I generally play everything at 60fps on PC, or performance mode if it's available on the consoles, and while it's initially jarring if I'm jumping directly from one frame rate to the other, it doesn't take long to acclimate if the game was done well. This game wasn't done well (with 30fps) and looks worse than 30fps.
It's not the same in all cases. I generally play everything at 60fps on PC, or performance mode if it's available on the consoles, and while it's initially jarring if I'm jumping directly from one frame rate to the other, it doesn't take long to acclimate if the game was done well. This game wasn't done well (with 30fps) and looks worse than 30fps.
Yeap... And the millions of millions of who play Animal Crossing, Both, LToU... Do you know GTA also runs at 30 fps on xbox and PS?
I play most third party games in PC, so I know 60+ is the best way to play. I have a 1440p/165oc monitor, but I can also enjoy playing DQ at 30 fps.
If 30 fps dont work for you, then by all means, but dont make it sound like an absolute truth when it is not.
The 30fps mode doesn't work well I think. I don't know if it's input lag or motion blur, it just doesn't play or feel good at all for some reason. And this is me coming from playing Miles Morales at 30fps and Bloodborne all day. I'm thinking there is something off about it in particular.
That would be the ideal. The creativity that came with squeezing the most into a 60fps target would do the industry a lot of good.
100% agreed. 60 fps not only looks smoother, it benefits the gameplay as well. I really enjoy how some games that are targeting 60 fps like Demon's Souls or Mario Odyssey look amazing even when having half the time to render a frame, and shows how big is the benefit of developers prioritizing the game performance. I don't care about having a full 4K 30 FPS mode, but I'd prefer developers not wasting development time on effects or post-processing that later will be cut from the 60 FPS mode.
I played Demon Souls and Miles Morales back to back. And it was an odd experience because I felt Demon Souls in 30fps was near unplayable and had to play at 60-fps. But I didn't mind Miles Morales in 30fps at all, I actually couldn't decide which I liked better.
I've always been fine with 30fps but man playing miles in 60fps, started a new game+ as soon as I finished and forgot to change the setting; 30fps was horrible. I've never seen/felt it like that before. I understand the slideshow comment now.
It is really game dependent IMO. However, the difference in Demon's Souls in particular is jarring. It only looks acceptably smooth with motion blur turned way up. Then you lose a lot of the visual gains from cinematic mode anyway.
Plus souls games are all about the gameplay anyway. Demon's Souls plays so good (and looks incredible to boot) that it is undesirable playing in any other mode than default performance mode.
Plus souls games are all about the gameplay anyway. Demon's Souls plays so good (and looks incredible to boot) that it is undesirable playing in any other mode than default performance mode.
agree its game dependant, for ds its pretty clear 60fps was their main focus from getgo.
they didn't seem to put much effort to the quality mode either.
miles for example looks exceptional at 30fps, and it handles movement pretty well too, so i stayed with it whole game and it was fine.
they didn't seem to put much effort to the quality mode either.
miles for example looks exceptional at 30fps, and it handles movement pretty well too, so i stayed with it whole game and it was fine.
This.
There will be 100% many games that choose 30 fps for better graphics
i guess it depends on if nature tied our movement to the framerate
Yeah, you're right. I always thought Metal Slug felt really smooth so I figured it must have been 60fps. Maybe it benefits from the movement speed of the characters and camera not being that far off the rate the sprites animate at. I know a lot of 2D games (especially fighters) which are 60fps but the characters animate at a much lower rate which can cause a bit of a disconnect.Nah, check it out right from a 60hz frame-advance:
The Metal Slug games often enter slow motion (2 most famously), but everything about this capture from the original game suggests they were deliberately giving themselves a big timing window and updating the screen every other frame. They aren't 60fps games, ever.
OP
OP
oh... that's disappointing! Is it true of xbox titles as well?
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Switching from 60 to 30 instantly is an entirely different feeling from 30 in general. If 60 in general is like running on gravel and 30 in general is like running 'on sand, switching from 60 to 30 instantly is like running in water. It looks very slideshow-y.