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Democrats are drafting a proposal for $5 billion for border security with ‘no new structures’ (No Wall) to end shutdown
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This isn't a bad compromise. Trump doesn't get his wall and looks weak to his base. Border security funding that can't be used on the wall, it's maybe not ideal given that there's a humanitarian concern at the border, but you have to give up something. It's savvy by Pelosi and House Dems IMO.
When we have back control of the government in 2021 then we can push through comprehensive immigration reform, which is in the party platform.
When we have back control of the government in 2021 then we can push through comprehensive immigration reform, which is in the party platform.
Oh ok, so zero dollars for immigration security?
There goes all the funding for judges to process asylum requests!
They had already given him additional funding for border security and no wall, which is what Prez Shitbag didn't like and shut the government down (that was what was passed by the Senate late last year by unanimous vote). The Dems never said "no negotiations", their stance has been "no wall" and this doesn't change that.
I'm no longer willing to underestimate the fuckery the GOP is capable of. Contracts being handed out to "private security firms", or lofty construction contracts to "repair existing structures", etc. If anyone can burn through $5 billion dollars to make other rich people richer...it's the GOP. We get nothing out of this concession / compromise, and I'd be surprised if this turned any political tides in the long run.
The "best" thing that comes of this is Trump shutting down the Government next year for similar bullshit to keep his antics fresh in peoples minds...because I'm not sure people will "remember" this come Nov 2020, given our current news cycles.
The smart thing to do is wait and see what this proposed hypothetical bill actually includes, and how this bill is going to be presented, before making a call.
But on the face this is ugly. You'd have to be way too deep into Democrat hero worship to not see how ugly it looks. "We will give you five billion US dollars for border security if you reopen the government." When you already have a reputation for being the wimpy pushover party this is the sort of thing that burns your base and envigorates the opposition.
You can't give an inch here. "Technically this isn't caving! Look at our provisos and asterisks!" doesn't work. Even moreso when we have a government that looks at laws and restrictions as technicalities. We've seen the you-can't-do-that-wait-stop-doing-that story play out too many times.
But on the face this is ugly. You'd have to be way too deep into Democrat hero worship to not see how ugly it looks. "We will give you five billion US dollars for border security if you reopen the government." When you already have a reputation for being the wimpy pushover party this is the sort of thing that burns your base and envigorates the opposition.
You can't give an inch here. "Technically this isn't caving! Look at our provisos and asterisks!" doesn't work. Even moreso when we have a government that looks at laws and restrictions as technicalities. We've seen the you-can't-do-that-wait-stop-doing-that story play out too many times.
Thank you.
Listening to the Daily last week made me want to bang my head against a wall. A Trump supporting sheriff repeatedly saying Trump understands we need security but doesn't think he means a literal wall the whole way through.
He keeps saying wall! Wall wall wall!
How is it that I, a doofus, figured out the move for this before like 80% of the people in this thread did
This is a troll move
This is a troll move
Yup. What actually happens and what he says happens aren't going to be the same thing no matter what.
Yep. They shouldn't offer a penny but let's go ahead and buy ICE some fucking tanks and drones.
If Trump signed it (which he won't), I doubt a single penny would go to ICE.
Who cares? It's still a compromising gesture being made to someone who is holding the country hostage. No matter how you might want to frame this to mitigate the harm it inflicts upon the Democrats, it is still an unacceptable pivot from what should have been a firm refusal to any offer until the government was reopened.
I see people in this thread aren't aware that the Dems have previously already increased their offer of border security since the shutdown began. This isn't the first time the offer moved. Were you freaking out about the Dems caving then?
So money for more judges to help with asylum seekers, refugees and helping reunite families. Is nothing huh?
Oh it is? Can you show me where it says that existing structures can't be added to?
I completely agree.
They expect him to reject it.
They're calling his bluff.
Oh look, the same folks at it again wrguing dems caved without actually reading. Not surprising.
I mean, if their definition of border security includes more immigration judges to drastically minimize any time at all spent In cages, this is not going to validate anything this Administration is doing at all
The southern border can be improved to advance Democratic/liberal/Mexican causes. That shouldn't be controversial or really surprising. There is infrastructure that needs to be maintained and improved to help process people quickly or more safely, there is additional improvements to be done in regards to smuggling through legal points of entry, there is improvements to be done to help people who choose to cross illegally through dangerous environments. This is in addition to needing more lawyers, case workers, social workers, health workers ect.... There's a ton of economic and human services that need to be maintained and improved so those beneficial things can continue and continue to improve.
I don't but you clearly lack historical context, Republicans have been doing this. Its like you missed the entire Obama presidency.
Secondly, that haven't offered a thing. This is them working out their eventual proposal, I don't know how you think this works but they don't just sit around waiting for the government to reopen to then start working on the budget. It will be ready the moment the government is reopened.
Its just so odd how comfortable are people speaking so strongly about stuff they clearly don't understand.
A lot of bad takes from people who need to be more informed.
If passed, this would not be a win for Trump. If you are worried about how Trump and the WH will spin this then you haven't noticed how they are spinning everything. He could poop his pants and there would be a story about how thoughtful he is for not using toilet water during a shutdown.
If passed, this would not be a win for Trump. If you are worried about how Trump and the WH will spin this then you haven't noticed how they are spinning everything. He could poop his pants and there would be a story about how thoughtful he is for not using toilet water during a shutdown.
If that's what you think they're going to spend that money on you're even more credulous than i thought.
This forum revels in unsubstantiated panic and endless political anxiety. 2016 really broke some people's brains.
i'm kinda confused at how few people understand how their own government works
And that certainly will help the mythical light GOP voter to finally, FINALLY decide and vote Dem, right?
I agree, Trump has to agree to a concession in addition to reopening the government.
Seriously? You rather the government remain shut down than to dead the fucking wall right here and now?
Doesn't fencing already exist though? Would it be building a new structure if you're expanding/upgrading something already in place?
Congress decides where the money goes. The GOP can't put it anywhere without Dems agreeing.
The camps are being closed more and more and this admin is losing a lot of legal cases surrounding the ongoing detainment of immigrants. Also part of this funding is to staff up immigration judges to hear more cases, which will also help cut down on the length of time people are detained. Plus it puts the onus back on Republicans and Trump to take up a vote.
They don't need the DACA thing anyway for now from what I understand - https://www.economist.com/democracy...what-the-supreme-courts-silence-on-daca-means
Likely fine on that front until 2020 now.
I think the only problem is that Dem concessions like this will shift some blame away from Trump because "they should have done it sooner," despite this clearly falling on Trump and McConnell's shoulders. No wall as a monument to xenophobia and racism is a win, and spending $5b extra on non-wall border security is pretty neutral even if it could be put toward better things.
Of course it doesn't matter if Trump doesn't even accept a no wall proposal.
Of course it doesn't matter if Trump doesn't even accept a no wall proposal.
User Banned (1 day): Hostility towards other users.
Yea, because budgets are signed and then congress just uses the budget for whatever they want!
Cause you know, it makes so much sense to constantly fight over budgets and appropriations and just fucking ignore them! That sounds right, you cracked the code on how congress works, congratulations!
Fucking idiot
So just shut down the government again until they do. Like this is how the GOP plays politics. They kick over the table and refuse to play until dems play by their rules.
lol I forgot he came up with that slogan today.
Ultimate troll move and timing.
I trust Pelosi on this. If this was a Shumer thing I would be worried.
Anyone else read that in the field of dreams voice?
If you build it, crime will fall!
Anyone else read that in the field of dreams voice?
If you build it, crime will fall!
I mean when Pelosi says they won't cave because Trump's proposal of temporary dreamer protection in comparison to his permanent wall is ridiculous and they do this now, it's definetly mixed messages.
Eh morally I am strongly in the camp of no policy negotiations until funding.
But people are suffering. So a true compromise is probably needed.
The big question is, is Trump going to sign a bill that has NO WALL written across it in bold type? Not that it matters. I think at this point if he were that obstructing the Senate would (finally) just override his ass.
But people are suffering. So a true compromise is probably needed.
The big question is, is Trump going to sign a bill that has NO WALL written across it in bold type? Not that it matters. I think at this point if he were that obstructing the Senate would (finally) just override his ass.
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